Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories Retrospective

[BlackOsprey]

Riku typically says "smell" but in one instance in the original, he does in fact say "taste!" It's stunning.

I don't really see the big deal, to be honest. Yeah, it sounds very strange when it's actually said out loud, but I can understand how a scent can be so strong and overwhelming that you can practically taste it.

Kinda feels like this whole scent thing was dropped completely after SE realized how silly (and sometimes slightly creepy) it sounded out loud. Which makes it even stranger. It's borderline Big-Lipped Alligator Moment territory.

 

[Blackdrazon]

I'm looking over the end of this CoM retrospective and I have to say I never saw the need to explain why Sora had to go to sleep. Namine is going to be de-linking all this memories all the way back to childhood, then gathering up the missing pieces, and sticking them back in. I mean that alone I can only imagine being awake to experience your entire self be pulled apart piece by piece, and then rebuilt would be a hellish experience she doesn't want him to experience. Like I always shuddered at the end as a kid because the whole process seemed terrifying to me.

Oh, I don't doubt the sleep, I agree with you on that. If you're talking about what I think you are: it's the pods that confuse me. All they really needed to say was "It's a sleeping pod," and then, preferably, explain why on earth Castle Oblivion has sleeping pods, and I think I would have been fine. Since Nomura has said the Organization is there to investigate memories, I assume the pods are actually something more than just sleep pods, and actually tied to memory restoration in some way, but if that's the case I'd still like them to say!

Also I'd assume they are using Corridors because they aren't really data.

That might be it, I'm going to have to look all this over again before the prologue's posts go up.

 

[Dandelion]

Also, keep in mind that in the manga Riku talks so much about the stench of Darkness that Mickey tells him he should probably take a bath.

 

[ShardofTruth]

Spoiler Show

But...his station of awakening wasn't metaphysical either that's heavily implied to be a creation by Namine to remind Roxas how to fight. DiZ tells us Namine hijacked the data, the awakening activates by her calling to Roxas which starts it, and then she pulls Roxas out near the end taking him somewhere else.

Spoiler Show

Is it really all Namine's creation? That somehow bothers me because this would mean Namine knows more about the whole "Dive to the Heart" process than we after seven games, same with coded. I think it can be initiated but not simulated, since it's so heavily connected to the heart. I might be wrong here, but it's my suspicion that [chi] will shed some light on this matter.

I will rest the realm of nothingness discussion because there are is simply not enough to argue about, I like your interpretation though, it's probably closer to what's actually happening in the end. From my point of view KHII introduced the realm and therefore showed it at some point, even though some instances seem to be reworked or cut.

 

[Dandelion]

Spoiler Show

Is it really all Namine's creation? That somehow bothers me because this would mean Namine knows more about the whole "Dive to the Heart" process than we after seven games, same with coded. I think it can be initiated but not simulated, since it's so heavily connected to the heart. I might be wrong here, but it's my suspicion that [chi] will shed some light on this matter.

I will rest the realm of nothingness discussion because there are is simply not enough to argue about, I like your interpretation though, it's probably closer to what's actually happening in the end. From my point of view KHII introduced the realm and therefore showed it at some point, even though some instances seem to be reworked or cut.

Wait, wait wait wait wait -

Spoiler Show

the data world was already connected to Sora through the pod and Ansem's machines, since the dive to the heart had Sora's image everywhere, I think the implication wasn't that the awakening we saw was digital but rather it was inside Sora's heart - since Namine absolutely is capable of stepping foot in it, having power over it.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Oh my bad. I can remember the Re CoM version. It's been so long since I've seen my GBA. I think it is the same.

It's okay, it happens.

This makes a lot of sense, too, but I wish they had said it.

Wouldn't have been hard to do either. A simple "and that's why" or whatever would have been fine.

Riku typically says "smell" but in one instance in the original, he does in fact say "taste!" It's stunning.

I'm so thankful it's just that one time. I'm not sure what I'd do with myself if Riku said Ansem tastes bad. (Just think of all the unfortunate imagery!)
But I do wonder about the video I saw that had it as "smell."
(Here's the video I'm talking about.)
It coooould be from the PAL version but it doesn't say and I can't find a thing on it.

That version of Riku's line strays into rated M territory lol

Oh god, the actual line is bad enough.

I don't really see the big deal, to be honest. Yeah, it sounds very strange when it's actually said out loud, but I can understand how a scent can be so strong and overwhelming that you can practically taste it.

I understand it too (and has had that happen to me a couple times) and now knowing it's just that one time he says taste, it lessens the hilarity (it really caught me off guard though, as my mind was wondering if he said that all throughout.)

Kinda feels like this whole scent thing was dropped completely after SE realized how silly (and sometimes slightly creepy) it sounded out loud. Which makes it even stranger. It's borderline Big-Lipped Alligator Moment territory.

I feel like Riku's nose powers are still there. Like he might have been using it to get around when he was blindfolded, and it may be why he's reminded of Terra when talking to Ansem in DDD. So it looks like they changed it from scent to just sensing.

Also, keep in mind that in the manga Riku talks so much about the stench of Darkness that Mickey tells him he should probably take a bath.

And Vexen thought maybe Riku and Xemnas smelled the same was because they're using the same cologne~

 

[Blackdrazon]

But I do wonder about the video I saw that had it as "smell."
(Here's the video I'm talking about.)
It coooould be from the PAL version but it doesn't say and I can't find a thing on it.

Hm, maybe that is what it is? One region clearly has more sense than the other. Here's a video with "taste" instead:

https://youtu.be/DoZsx3Iw2Qs?t=28m41s

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Hm, maybe that is what it is? One region clearly has more sense than the other. Here's a video with "taste" instead:

https://youtu.be/DoZsx3Iw2Qs?t=28m41s

Ah, good, it plays for me this time. Naturally, the video works for me again only after you've already answered my question, but with both links at that spot it does make it easier to compare.


And with that out of the way I can now wait patiently for Saturday's Retrospective. Can't wait to see your thoughts on the differences.

 

[Blackdrazon]

And with that out of the way I can now wait patiently for Saturday's Retrospective. Can't wait to see your thoughts on the differences.

I hope you enjoy it! It's going to be a big weekend for the blog: the first post for R/R and the last post for Final Fantasy Adventure (FFV is next, if anyone is wondering), and both are a little bigger than usual.

 

[Hirokey123]

You know I'm just curious, maybe I missed it but is there a reason your FF3 retrospective references all these images of the 3D version of it but the pictures in the place are from the 2D version? Like one you talk about how ridiculous the army is in the 3D version having no horses or weapons as a caption for a picture that shows the 2D version with armies with horses and weapons.

 

[Blackdrazon]

You know I'm just curious, maybe I missed it but is there a reason your FF3 retrospective references all these images of the 3D version of it but the pictures in the place are from the 2D version? Like one you talk about how ridiculous the army is in the 3D version having no horses or weapons as a caption for a picture that shows the 2D version with armies with horses and weapons.

Unfortunately, tracking down willing screenshot donors is hard. I was lucky to secure Temple of the Azure Flame for my Re:CoM screenshots in time. More often than not, thanks to time pressures or refusals (or silence), I have to substitute a freely available source (like World of Longplays) that shows some other version of the game. Thankfully the damage isn't usually so bad, but sometimes the differences hurt the Journal, like with FFIII and TAY.

That said... I didn't actually ask around for FFIII screenshots, and went to World of Longplays immediately. When FFIII went up, the Final Fantasy posts were getting basically 0 hits. It wasn't until I started promoting the FFIV posts that people started to come back to that part of the site. In short, I was lazy, and let the entries suffer. Sorry about that :S.

Now that the blog is larger, I might have better luck finding a source for 3D FFIII screenshots. I'll have to ask around some day.

 

[dlppictures]

It coooould be from the PAL version but it doesn't say and I can't find a thing on it.

Honestly, if that was the case, I would not be surprised, seeing as it would not the only time SE of Europe would "improve" the translations.
Like in the Secret Ansem Reports the mispelled apprentices names, were corrected in PAL, so I could easily believe that to be the reason.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

A long read but as brisk as Reverse/Rebirth itself.

It's interesting Re:CoM has Ansem speaking when in CoM, the mysterious voice's dialogue sprite is clearly not Ansem's.
.
.
.
Well, I mean it is Ansem's, but, I mean, you know.

It's funny though, in CoM, because of the sprite we don't know who's speaking, but with Re:CoM, since the real Ansem is using Ansem's voice, a voice that Riku should immediately recognize, the scene becomes weird for me because Riku doesn't react to it the way you'd think he would.

I wonder if both games would have benefited in not using a sprite/voice for those scenes, and to keep it mysterious on who's speaking until after Hallow Bastion.

 

[Blackdrazon]

Yes, just some of that ghostly floating text from the remake would have been ideal, I think. It would have been pretty nice to have Ansem come roaring into the narrative, fully voiced, at the end of Hollow Bastion as well.

 

[Veritas7340]

Can't believe this never occurred to me before: How did DiZ avoid being detected by Zexion?

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

This is Zexion, a blue-haired fellow whose name that looks fine in text (as fantasy names go) but sounds awful voiced.

Sounds fine to me when said, but I can see (uh, hear?) why it may not sound as well with some.

“The Organization used to be the rope that bound us, and now it’s full of kinks.” I’m not even going to touch this.

"Bound" and "kinks" you say?

Riku talks about tasting the darkness!

Darkness: stays crunchy, even in milk.

When you reach Hook, you make a sad discovery: even though it would have only been a few lines of work in the GBA version, none of the memory bosses have any dialogue. This might have been understandable for Heartless bosses but what a waste with the Disney bosses! We had a chance to see each one of them tempt Riku with darkness in their own unique ways, or lash out at him for betraying their ideals. Even the Heartless bosses could have been replaced with someone else from their worlds: Riku could have been forced to talk to Pinocchio again, or to the mad Queen of Hearts who would throw all his arguments back in his face. And it would have been really nice to see Riku talk to Leon, who is still nursing a massive guilt complex over his inability to save Hollow Bastion as a child

^Not only this, but the memory worlds would have been the perfect opportunity to show more of what Riku was doing during KHI and/or show some of Riku's character development by having him face his douchbag days.

In the remake, no one overtly accuses Marluxia of treachery here and in the next segment, but in the original, it’s immediately clear that the basement crew know he’s up to no good. In the original, Vexen proposes that they need to “acquire” Riku as a counter to Marluxia gaining control over Sora, some solid tactical reasoning. We see the genesis of his Riku Replica plan right here. The remake removes these lines, depriving the basement crew of their motivations! Once Vexen goes about his Replica plan, Zexion and Lexaeus try to get Riku on their side personally, except now they don’t have a scene explaining where they got the idea! In the remake, Vexen just says that Riku is more interesting than Sora and goes about his merry way.It’s a complete shambles.

I'm too baffled by these confusing changes that I'm at a loss for words.

 

[BlackOsprey]

^Not only this, but the memory worlds would have been the perfect opportunity to show more of what Riku was doing during KHI and/or show some of Riku's character development by having him face his douchbag days.

I remember reading the novelization of Reverse/Rebirth, and it seems like the author agreed with this idea. Riku spoke to Hook, at least. I wasn't able to read the rest of the story, so I can't really say for anyone else.

Also, let's take a moment and be thankful that no other KH game so far has had dialogue nearly as questionable, creepy, or funny for all the wrong reasons as CoM's.

 

[Blackdrazon]

Sounds fine to me when said, but I can see (uh, hear?) why it may not sound as well with some.

Yick, too sibilant for my ears.

^Not only this, but the memory worlds would have been the perfect opportunity to show more of what Riku was doing during KHI and/or show some of Riku's character development by having him face his douchbag days.

All this and more! Or, you know, not. Whichever way you want to go, CoM.

I remember reading the novelization of Reverse/Rebirth, and it seems like the author agreed with this idea. Riku spoke to Hook, at least. I wasn't able to read the rest of the story, so I can't really say for anyone else.

That's good at least. I really do have to get the novelizations one day, once I have the money to do so.

 

[Veritas7340]

^Not only this, but the memory worlds would have been the perfect opportunity to show more of what Riku was doing during KHI and/or show some of Riku's character development by having him face his douchbag days.

When I first saw the CoM commericals, and they showed Riku in Twilight Town, I thought the same thing! I thought we would have seen how Riku abducted Jasmine, Pinocchio, and Wendy.

@Blackdrazon, does CoM ever say how DiZ avoided being detected by Zexion?

 

[Blackdrazon]

@Blackdrazon, does CoM ever say how DiZ avoided being detected by Zexion?

When Zexion detects a scent similar to the superior ("Ansem"), he later concludes that he was just smelling Riku. But I think he's actually mistaken: Riku detected/sniffed Ansem, so it's reasonable to conclude that Zexion did as well. I think what DiZ did was to take out his darkest cologne (Exdeath #5), bathed in it for a few hours, and spent the rest of the game hiding in Zexion's mistakes.

After Zexion died, DiZ washed off the scent presented himself to Riku in Twilight Town. No, really: we know from the GBA's character sprites that the "Ansem" on B12 is actually DiZ, but Riku notes that DiZ smells of "something else," in Twilight Town (B2), so he must have washed it off between then and there.