Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories Retrospective

[Hirokey123]

I honestly don't think which Riku it was, was important. The message itself was clear Monstro is one of Riku's darkest moments in his life and now he's on the other side of that moment. He's playing both the role of the hero and the villain and this is all his chance to redeem himself for the luring, kidnapping of a child, ignoring the begging pleas of his father, and running away with his tail between his legs when the parasite cage appeared the second time. The conversation at the time even reflects the conversation between Sora and Riku about having a conscience.

 

[Blackdrazon]

The conversation at the time even reflects the conversation between Sora and Riku about having a conscience.

That's an especially good spot, I'm going to have to pay close attention to this when I get around to DDD for my retrospective play-through (I may end up waiting for 2.8's release to do that, so maybe I should make a note...).

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Ugh, the Riku Replica spoiler. How someone in localizing thought this was a good idea I have none (in case anyone doesn't know, the Japanese version didn't spoil. His card just says "Riku" on it like in the original CoM.)

 

[Blackdrazon]

Ugh, the Riku Replica spoiler. How someone in localizing thought this was a good idea I have none (in case anyone doesn't know, the Japanese version didn't spoil. His card just says "Riku" on it like in the original CoM.)

What? How on-- I'm going to edit this in. What a disaster.

 

[ShardofTruth]

This retrospective is getting better and better, I loved the Destiny Islands floor pages.
The Castle Oblivion floors are my favorite castle floors, even though it's definitely too big in Sora's version, when the title animation appears and the music starts I feel like I have really reached the end of the game. The all-white design is also great, I wonder how Kingdom Hearts III will handle it.

I'm surprised you didn't write more about Axel's "We've got more in common than you think" line, since it sparked year long discussions and theories about how Sora is actually connected to Axel even though it turned out to be nothing really special in KHII.

 

[Blackdrazon]

I'm surprised you didn't write more about Axel's "We've got more in common than you think" line, since it sparked year long discussions and theories about how Sora is actually connected to Axel even though it turned out to be nothing really special in KHII.

Hm, I suppose it skipped me by! I should probably comment on it never-the-less. I'll look into it in the afternooon, after I get a thing out of the way.

 

[Blackdrazon]

Having taken a look at the line, I can't help but suspect the developers were saying "You and I have Roxas in common," when they wrote it. But from the perspective of someone who doesn't know Roxas, I think I'd try to connect it to the Unknown's line: "Ah, it seems you are special, too." Which, like you said, doesn't seem to connect to anything in KH2, does it?

I should probably bring that up in the retrospective entry all the same. Any other thoughts?

 

[Hirokey123]

I think it's kind of interesting since you brought up Unknown how that fight+CoM implies they originally planned for the gap between certain events to be much longer than they actually ended up being.

Originally we didn't really have a time frame for when that battle took place so it could seem like Roxas had already left an impression on Unknown, prompting this little excursion. But now we know he only had known Roxas for 5 days and during those 5 days Roxas was little more than a zombie who could barely form a sentence, who hadn't yet participated on a single mission. There is practically nothing about Roxas for Unknown to have any meaningful memories of, no demonstration of power...nothing. And Unknown already knows Roxas's connection to Sora so it's not like it even really makes sense for him to mention it like it's something he is only just now sees. Heck you could actually argue that it makes more sense now for him to be talking about Vanitas or Ventus rather than Roxas.

Then comes Namine in CoM and how she talks about being alone for such a long time, except now we have a time frame that tells us long time=3 weeks. Namine makes it sound like it's been much longer than that. Long enough that Namine is so desperate for companionship and so fearful of being alone any longer that she will do what the Organization asks of her. Also apparently the pods there was constructed for the Organization to use in conjunction with Namine's memory powers in order to experiment with the taking apart of memories....they figured out Namine's powers and constructed high tech devices around it in 3 weeks that's kind of silly really.

It's like they originally planned for the gap between Sora's heartless-fication and the Unknown boss fight/CoM to be much larger than it actually ended up being.

 

[Blackdrazon]

It's like they originally planned for the gap between Sora's heartless-fication and the Unknown boss fight/CoM to be much larger than it actually ended up being.

I quite agree, and there are a few points in the Days retrospective where I point out either that there seems to be a timeline error, possibly caused by the removal of Sora's "other adventures" between KH1 and CoM. More frequently than that, I talk about how the timeline might have been improved if Days had added more time prior to CoM. Whether they deliberately made the change or not, I think somebody screwed up the timeline in the end.

I like your insight that the Unknown might have been talking about Vanitas or Ventus, even if that's just us applying duct tape to the plot at this point. Oh well.

 

[Muke]

I quite agree, and there are a few points in the Days retrospective where I point out either that there seems to be a timeline error, possibly caused by the removal of Sora's "other adventures" between KH1 and CoM. [...]

Huh? Have you already written it, or am I just misunderstanding something here? Sorry if that's the case. :x

 

[BlackOsprey]

Eh, I don't think it's really important or even possible to keep track of the amount of time between the events of the story. Sure, it might've been X amount of time by TWTNW standards, but there's no way to know just how much time lapsed in another world, since they all run on their own speeds. I have some suspicion that Radiant Garden, Destiny Islands, and the Realm of In-between might run on congruent speeds, but there really isn't much evidence to prove it.

 

[Blackdrazon]

Huh? Have you already written it, or am I just misunderstanding something here? Sorry if that's the case. :x

The Retrospective has first draft work done through KH2 and most (but not all) of Days. I haven't gotten any further than that because the Final Fantasy journal entries are rapidly catching up to the present, so I've been working on those instead. In fact, I'm working on FFVI as we speak.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Castle Oblivion.... The part I could never finish in the original CoM.
I'm gonna have to make a confession. I didn't have a Blue 1 to open the one door, and in my frustration I deleted the file and started over. Wasn't able to get passed Larxene again... So I just gave up on it. I was a bit of an idiot back then.
Though lately I'm thinking of going at again after all these years.

The delivery gets awkward here in Re:CoM, especially for Axel. Marluxia was furious in the GBA, as he has every right to be, but the remake took him down to neutral to make him appear impassive, which I feel hurts the scene (the GBA has snappier delivery overall thanks to his original personality).

Marluxia's delivery in Re:CoM (and he monotoneness in general) is probably, for better or worse, the result of KHII fleshing out the Nobodies more.
Though a part of me can't help but think he might have been like that from the start in the original Japanese CoM (wish I could find a transcript.) Years ago I've come to the conclusion that if the writing's good it's a result of localizing, and if it's weird, bad, or meh then it's a result of a more direct translation. Especially from text dialogue.

But on to a more general statement. This post reminded me on how Kingdom Hearts' quality is so back and fourth. While there's been times it backsteps farther, as a whole it shuffles in place. Like every time it does good it gets scared and steps back, sometimes even tripping over itself doing so. This series has self esteem issues.

 

[Blackdrazon]

Castle Oblivion.... The part I could never finish in the original CoM.
I'm gonna have to make a confession. I didn't have a Blue 1 to open the one door, and in my frustration I deleted the file and started over. Wasn't able to get passed Larxene again... So I just gave up on it. I was a bit of an idiot back then.
Though lately I'm thinking of going at again after all these years.

My stopping point was the =8 on Destiny Islands, though I eventually did find it through grinding. It sucks you had to drop out - the Roulette Room really is a critical addition.

Marluxia's delivery in Re:CoM (and he monotoneness in general) is probably, for better or worse, the result of KHII fleshing out the Nobodies more.
Though a part of me can't help but think he might have been like that from the start in the original Japanese CoM (wish I could find a transcript.) Years ago I've come to the conclusion that if the writing's good it's a result of localizing, and if it's weird, bad, or meh then it's a result of a more direct translation. Especially from text dialogue.

All good points, and we also have to account for lip synching, though Marluxia's character changes go into the text as well so I'll have to defer to your points on those.

But on to a more general statement. This post reminded me on how Kingdom Hearts' quality is so back and fourth. While there's been times it backsteps farther, as a whole it shuffles in place. Like every time it does good it gets scared and steps back, sometimes even tripping over itself doing so. This series has self esteem issues.

Kingdom Hearts is surprisingly self-aware, with the way it constantly challenges its old conclusions like it did when it challenged KH1's conclusions about friendship just a floor ago. One of the biggest moments of self-flagellation is still upcoming. So in the end I guess I see the self-awareness as a general positive, but the way quality sways is definitely a downside. I wonder what it would be like if it were more self-confident?

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

My stopping point was the =8 on Destiny Islands, though I eventually did find it through grinding. It sucks you had to drop out - the Roulette Room really is a critical addition.

At least I was able to finish Re:CoM. Probably helped that I've became a more chill person by then.

Kingdom Hearts is surprisingly self-aware, with the way it constantly challenges its old conclusions like it did when it challenged KH1's conclusions about friendship just a floor ago. One of the biggest moments of self-flagellation is still upcoming. So in the end I guess I see the self-awareness as a general positive, but the way quality sways is definitely a downside.

Its self-awareness is certainly is a positive. It's one of the things I like about the series. Though I sometimes wonder if it's maybe a little too focused on challenging itself that this is what causes the quality of the rest of the writing to sway so.

I wonder what it would be like if it were more self-confident?

It'd get out more. Make more friends, and wear better clothes. *looks at Sora's KHIII outfit* Huh, maybe it did?

 

[Blackdrazon]

Its self-awareness is certainly is a positive. It's one of the things I like about the series. Though I sometimes wonder if it's maybe a little too focused on challenging itself that this is what causes the quality of the rest of the writing to sway so.

That's a good point. I wonder if they'll ever find the proper balance?

It'd get out more. Make more friends, and wear better clothes. *looks at Sora's KHIII outfit* Huh, maybe it did?

I almost wish we had more screenshots so I could say something like "No Lea, she said better clothes! Better clothes!"

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

That's a good point. I wonder if they'll ever find the proper balance?

Only if they get Shiro Amano as one of the writers. *will forever pray so*

I almost wish we had more screenshots so I could say something like "No Lea, she said better clothes! Better clothes!"

Hahahaa... *sigh* We just know deep down it's gonna happen. (Don't give Lea flame-y clothes, Nomura!)

So earlier today I decided to try out my old copy of CoM after all these years. The file where I got stuck on Larxene was still there, so I played that and I can see why younger me had issues. My deck was full of nothing but nines, very few cards, and three enemy cards that only took up precious space. I removed it all, tried to arrange it so that I can do Sonic Blade as much as possible, put in a zero, added a couple Elixers and a Megalixer, and I was good to go.

Both the Riku and Larxene fights became cakewalks!!

Also, I found I could indeed go back to save before facing Larxene. Though that confused me as I would have certainly saved in-between fights back then if I knew I could. (Did I just never try to go back before?)
Doesn't seem to be a glitch either, as I went back and fourth between the rooms several times (turned the game off a couple times as well) to make sure.

 

[Blackdrazon]

So earlier today I decided to try out my old copy of CoM after all these years. The file where I got stuck on Larxene was still there, so I played that and I can see why younger me had issues. My deck was full of nothing but nines, very few cards, and three enemy cards that only took up precious space. I removed it all, tried to arrange it so that I can do Sonic Blade as much as possible, put in a zero, added a couple Elixers and a Megalixer, and I was good to go.

Both the Riku and Larxene fights became cakewalks!!

Ugh, I fell into the "9" trap during my first play-through as well. It just goes to show, doesn't it? The game just doesn't let you know what you have to do.

Also, I found I could indeed go back to save before facing Larxene. Though that confused me as I would have certainly saved in-between fights back then if I knew I could. (Did I just never try to go back before?)
Doesn't seem to be a glitch either, as I went back and fourth between the rooms several times (turned the game off a couple times as well) to make sure.

Huh, I wonder why (and you!) got so confused about that, then? I'll have to edit the entry, thanks!

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Huh, I wonder why (and you!) got so confused about that, then? I'll have to edit the entry, thanks!

Your welcome!

I'm still baffled by it. All these years...

I've gotten stuck on the first Marluxia fight. Kept running out of too many cards by the time he's on his last bar (I didn't put much focus on raising CP back then) so I'll have to grind, but still, it feels great that not only am I so close to finishing Sora's story for the first time, but that I'll finally be able to play through the original Reverse/Rebirth as well.

 

[Hirokey123]

You could do what young me does use the neoshadow enemy card it takes a off a very nice chunk of health.