Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories Retrospective

[rokudamia2]

Just to let you know those are not the reasons nomura stated for making Marluxia a man.

To quote Nomura's comments on Marluxia and Larxene in the character report vol 2

Marluxia
During the plotting stage we intended him to be a woman, but we thought about the balance with Larxene and made him a man. When you consider how he was entrusted with Castle Oblivion despite being Number 11 of the Organisation, you can tell just what a cunning character he is. I wasn't able to show this to you, but I'm sure you can imagine how he played the perfect 'can-do man' in front of Xemnas. He's quite the actor.
--Nomura


Larxene
She ended up being the only female character in the Organisation, but in effect it made her more of an individual, which I think is good. I had a firm image of her voice, so hers was the very first voice actor we decided on. Adding that voice made her all the more brutal, didn't it? As for that hairstyle. I'm the one who drew it and it's still a mystery to me. ...Why did I give her that hair?
--Nomura

http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-ii/197305-characters-report-vol-2-translations.html


Yet it still persists in fandom, especially tvtropes which states Nomura came up with coded when drunk (he never said this), and Chernabog was going to be the final boss of kh1 (I have never seen any official source that has stated this.)

Really great retrospective though. And I don't blame you for getting this wrong.

 

[Blackdrazon]

Just to let you know those are not the reasons nomura stated for making Marluxia a man.

To quote Nomura's comments on Marluxia and Larxene in the character report vol 2



http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-ii/197305-characters-report-vol-2-translations.html


Yet it still persists in fandom, especially tvtropes which states Nomura came up with coded when drunk (he never said this), and Chernabog was going to be the final boss of kh1 (I have never seen any official source that has stated this.)

Really great retrospective though. And I don't blame you for getting this wrong.

Ah okay, thanks rokudamia, I'll correct that then.

I still wish they had tried to put more women in the Organization, but after all these years it doesn't surprise me that they didn't even try.

 

[Muke]

Huh. Wasn't Days the game he wrote when he was drunk?

 

[Absent]

Huh. Wasn't Days the game he wrote when he was drunk?

Coded. You're thinking of Coded. Days he wrote in a week or so locked up in a room.

 

[Songbird]

Coded. You're thinking of Coded. Days he wrote in a week or so locked up in a room.

Poor Days. People are so-on-the fence when it comes to CoM, Days, and Coded. And with various reasons why.
Whether those reasons are even true or not lol

 

[Muke]

Coded. You're thinking of Coded. Days he wrote in a week or so locked up in a room.

Oh, my bad. Sorry for messing up. ;~;

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

(Just to clear up the drunk thing, Nomura and Tabata went to dinner and discussed creating what would become coded. While that doesn't mean he got drunk or anything, it is not that big of a stretch to think that some beers were imbibed over that dinner. Regardless, it wasn't like Nomura came into work drunk and made the game. He and Tabata just had a friendly co-worker discussion about it one night then decided to make it happen.

*leaves*)

 

[Songbird]

There's even a rumor that one of the games was thought up in a quick discussion in an elevator, but what AREN'T there rumors of?

 

[Muke]

There's even a rumor that one of the games was thought up in a quick discussion in an elevator, but what AREN'T there rumors of?

This actually is true, I think. A worker of SE (or so) met a worker of Disney and then the idea of KH came to their minds. (It was something like that)

(Just to clear up the drunk thing, Nomura and Tabata went to dinner and discussed creating what would become coded. While that doesn't mean he got drunk or anything, it is not that big of a stretch to think that some beers were imbibed over that dinner. Regardless, it wasn't like Nomura came into work drunk and made the game. He and Tabata just had a friendly co-worker discussion about it one night then decided to make it happen.

*leaves*)

Ohh, so that's the thing behind all that drunk-stuff! Thank you for clearing this up for all of us~

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

There's even a rumor that one of the games was thought up in a quick discussion in an elevator, but what AREN'T there rumors of?

This actually is true, I think. A worker of SE (or so) met a worker of Disney and then the idea of KH came to their minds. (It was something like that)

Hm...I'd explain it but Iwata and Nomura do it better.

Iwata: One thing about Disney is that they have the strictest control over their characters in the world, but they let us throw our own creations into those same worlds. See, long ago, I had a similar experience when I made Smash Bros (※5), so I know it must have been terrible. First of all, how did it begin, how did you climb over the obstacles, I'm really interested.

※5 Smash Bros = 'Super Smash Bros'. It was a fighting action rpg, the first title releasing Jan 1999 on the Nintendo 64.

Nomura: Firstly, we were in the same building... I've told this story many times, but it originally began from making a game together with Disney. One time, Mr (Shinji) Hashimoto (※6) and Mr (Hironobu) Sakaguchi (※7) were talking together, and I was there too for some reason.

※6 Mr Shinji Hashimoto = Square Enix Holdings Corporate Executive. In the days of the old company Square, he was first the producer of Final Fantasy VII and worked on many titles. ※7 Mr Hironobu Sakaguchi = The creator of the Final Fantasy series. He became independent in 2001, and established the game development company Mist Walker.

Iwata: Were the three of you just together by chance?

Nomura: Yes. I had been called over there for a completely different matter, but at that moment Mr Hashimoto and Mr Sakaguchi were talking back and forth about Disney, something like, 'Mickey would be great but we can't use him'. And then, I put up my hand and said, 'Ah, I want to do that,' and that's how it began. However, at the time I had absolutely no motivation to make a Mickey game...

Both: (laughs)

Nomura: So then it went sort of like, 'Okay, we'll let Tetsu have a go'.

Iwata: What was the background behind raising your hand? What part interested you?

Nomura: From the start, when I was working on FFVII (※8), that was right about the time that Mario 64 got famous, and the way you could run around freely in a full 3D world impacted hugely on me. When I talked with other staff about how I wanted to make a game like that, they told me, 'No, Mario is already a world-famous character, you can't do it now with a new character.'

※8 FFVII = Final Fantasy VII. It went on sale Jan 1997, as the seventh title in the series. ※9 Mario 64 = Super Mario 64. An action game for the Nintendo 64 that went on sale June 1996.

Iwata: Like, 'We can't go up against Mario,' sort of thing?

Nomura: Yes. The colleagues I talked with at the time said, 'It would be impossible to do without Disney-level star power characters'. But, it stayed in my head. So, when I heard them talking about doing something with Disney, I knew I wanted to do it...

Iwata: You must have had it quite firmly stuck in there...! So basically, the impact of Mario 64, hearing it would be 'impossible without Disney-level characters', and then talk about a Mickey game spawned something inside your head and you raised your hand, right?

Nomura: Yes (laughs).

Iwata: Hmm! Fate sure is a strange thing!

Nomura: (laughs)

Tetsuya Nomura in Iwata Asks! - News - Kingdom Hearts Insider

And pretty much this back from the early 2000s when Nomura was just a 20/close to 30-something year old man.

Dan Winters (Vice President of Production - Disney Interactive): This started out through an elevator ride. So Square Soft's is in the same building as our office in Tokyo.

Tetsuya Nomura (Director and Character Designer - Square): I heard some people saying that Square was the initiator. That story has been circulating around. But that's not quite what happened. Disney initiated it. The offer came to our producer first. When Sakaguchi-san and the Disney producer were talking about vague production ideas for this project, I happened to run into them, and heard about it, so I told them I might have some good ideas.

Making of Kingdom Hearts - Part 1 - News - Kingdom Hearts Insider

Thus Kingdom Hearts was born.

Ohh, so that's the thing behind all that drunk-stuff! Thank you for clearing this up for all of us~

No problem.

 

[Songbird]

Aaaah! So I was right to remember about the elevator, just not the context of it XD

 

[Muke]

^^

Uh-huh! ~

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Finally caught up. Wahoo!

Of course, Sora doesn’t even know what a Marluxia is,

I had too:

This is where a strange thing happens in both versions. The memory Naminé (the solid one in the remake) seems pleased he has the charm, but the translucent, real Naminé begs Sora not to “believe me.” Not only is the phrasing awkward, but I’m not sure what’s going on now. When we started this scene, the “fake” Naminé said she knew Sora, then said she didn’t, then stopped talking, and is now back where she started! Is the “real” Naminé exercising only limited control over the memory, or… uh… what? I have a suspicion about what’s going on but it’s still very sloppy.

Naminé: You can't believe me!
Me: Wait, do mean you you or her you?

A thing that confused me is the fake Namine says things that make it sound like it's the real one talking and not a memory of Sora's, but then the real Namine shows up, saying that that Namine is only a memory.
I'm curious on what your suspicion is. With the reaction to the charm, I take it that since Namine replaced Kairi with herself, that the reaction is actually from the memory of Kairi, but overlaid by Namine of course. (as shown when the fake turns into Kairi.)

 

[Blackdrazon]

Thanks for all that info, Spockanort, it's good to see the actual quotes!

I had too:

Pffffffffffff--

I'm curious on what your suspicion is. With the reaction to the charm, I take it that since Namine replaced Kairi with herself, that the reaction is actually from the memory of Kairi, but overlaid by Namine of course. (as shown when the fake turns into Kairi.)

I think your solution is the intended solution, like some sort of reverse of the Aerith scenario at the start of the game. Still, I have my other theory just in case.

My guess has to do with the order in which things were done. We know Namine added a (loose) memory of herself before she added the memory of the charm, so maybe the charm-memory "overwrote" parts of the Namine-memory. So even though both Namines wanted to be honest with Sora, memory Namine couldn't stop thinking the charm was hers. I bet if you asked her about the meteor shower and the promise Sora made, you'd get a similar response.

I think of it like a bad photoshop: you take a photo of yourself and add in John Cena, and the photo continues to be honest... except for John Cena.

 

[Veritas7340]

I love how you emphasized the fact Sora is a slave to the chain of memories because he killed Larxene to defend Namine. This should have been an ominous sign that Sora desperately needs to embrace the truth soon. Nevertheless, the game casually glosses over Larxene's death. The game handled it so nonchalantly that I did not even think it was a major issue the first three times I beat the game!

 

[Songbird]

They make beating Larxene feel SO GOOD. That's part of the trick. A good villain serves more purposes than just the obvious ones.
Like that villain you can't wait to defeat and when you do all you can think of is how relieved you are. Or the villain you despise so much only to feel unsettled after their demise. Larxene is the former though lol

 

[BlackOsprey]

Back when I played the game, I noticed a trend that this restrospective has only reinforced: Repliku has the best dialogue out of everyone. "Your memory is a train wreck." That one still gets me even now.

And geez, I honestly never thought of Larxene's death like that at all. At the time, it felt like standard JRPG procedures... bad guy gets in the way and is evil/life-threatening, hero kills bad guy. It was pretty satisfying at the time, and the way the story glossed over it didn't help matters. But... sheesh, I can't look at this the same way again. I always knew that CoM's story was a notch above the rest, but I never was tuned into all these subtleties.

So, brilliant work as always, Blackdrazon.

 

[Blackdrazon]

Back when I played the game, I noticed a trend that this restrospective has only reinforced: Repliku has the best dialogue out of everyone. "Your memory is a train wreck." That one still gets me even now.

When Riku encountered himself briefly in DDD, I remember thinking "Is that Repliku? Are they going to have another verbal sparring match?" So disappointing.

 

[Launchpad]

When Riku encountered himself briefly in DDD, I remember thinking "Is that Repliku? Are they going to have another verbal sparring match?" So disappointing.

What the fuck was with that scene? So stupid. Was it KH1 Riku? He was the one to lead Pinocchio around Monstro.. Nah, he didn't don the black coat until after CoM. Was it Repliku? Maybe? Who knows. Nomura was trying to convey something, but he didn't make any attempt to clarify what. Just faux mysteriousness.

 

[Blackdrazon]

What the diddly was with that scene? So stupid. Was it KH1 Riku? He was the one to lead Pinocchio around Monstro.. Nah, he didn't don the black coat until after CoM. Was it Repliku? Maybe? Who knows. Nomura was trying to convey something, but he didn't make any attempt to clarify what. Just faux mysteriousness.

You got me. Your guess seems as good as any. Maybe the cloak represented Riku... being evil when he was in Monstro? Such a mess.