Kingdom Hearts 3 Story Discussion

[Squood!]

Well that's that's shame. There was a thread recently about worlds we would cut and my first choice was 100 Acre Woods, lol

Anyway something else I found odd

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there is a cutscene after the first visit to Twilight Town which has Riku and Mickey piece together than Xehanort stole Terra's body. Yet the old man himself already admitted to it at the end of DDD. I can't believe they forgot like that

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Maybe they thought MX's vessel comment meant "piece of his heart" instead of "the whole enchilada"

 

[Zettaflare]

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Maybe they thought MX's vessel comment meant "piece of his heart" instead of "the whole enchilada"

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maybe but to me it seemed clear that Xehanort was referring to possessing Terra in the past and not in the present as part of the twelve vessels.

Side note Aeleus and Dilan arent voiced for some reason. I never expected them to have huge roles but at least let them speak, lol

 

[Grono]

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Okay, I'm crying because of Tangled. Good job, Disney! Almost as powerful as the movie!

 

[Noivern]

Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness

Decided to finally create an account to talk KH-Theory with everything that's been going on with KH3, even though I've been following the forums for a few years. I'd like to make my first post about my favorite character since one of his quotes got me thinking a lot, so this is about Vanitas.

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During his final fight and defeat in the Graveyard, there's the whole talk about we choosing what we are and Vanitas choose to be darkness. I've seen someone complaining about it in this thread and I was really waiting on some sort of redemption for him since the BBS novels and so on bring quite a lot to his character.
However, that whole stage of the game is basically a huge [Chi]/Union X reference not only with the Ephemer and the Dandelions scene but with the scenes with Marluxia, Larxene and maybe even Luxord (!!!) and Xigbar (which is more important with his relevance as Luxu and so on). So that got me thinking.

What If there was more to Vanitas choosing darkness than what we are first led to believe? What if it's more than just him being edgy, like how Marluxia talks about remembering his somebody and his purpose (Lauriam) and Larxene seems to have her own hidden agenda for what she's been doing?

For a while I had a theory that the Ventus from Union X was going to be more than what we think and maybe he was the traitor, albeit unknowingly. That he had some sort of connection to the darkness that led him to end up as Xehanort's apprentice, since we weren't completely sure how much Ven remembered of his past before he lost his memories due to the trauma of having his heart thorn in half.

What if this is somehow true, and Vanitas actually knows more than we were led to believe? It's so weird that every other defeated Org Member has some sort of redemption while he has that open ending, but maybe he's hinting that him choosing Darkness was a way to protect Ventus so he could be Light. I don't know, maybe this is just me hoping he'll get more than the poor writing they gave him here.

 

[VoidGear.]

Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness Darkness

Decided to finally create an account to talk KH-Theory with everything that's been going on with KH3, even though I've been following the forums for a few years. I'd like to make my first post about my favorite character since one of his quotes got me thinking a lot, so this is about Vanitas.

Spoiler Show

During his final fight and defeat in the Graveyard, there's the whole talk about we choosing what we are and Vanitas choose to be darkness. I've seen someone complaining about it in this thread and I was really waiting on some sort of redemption for him since the BBS novels and so on bring quite a lot to his character.
However, that whole stage of the game is basically a huge [Chi]/Union X reference not only with the Ephemer and the Dandelions scene but with the scenes with Marluxia, Larxene and maybe even Luxord (!!!) and Xigbar (which is more important with his relevance as Luxu and so on). So that got me thinking.

What If there was more to Vanitas choosing darkness than what we are first led to believe? What if it's more than just him being edgy, like how Marluxia talks about remembering his somebody and his purpose (Lauriam) and Larxene seems to have her own hidden agenda for what she's been doing?

For a while I had a theory that the Ventus from Union X was going to be more than what we think and maybe he was the traitor, albeit unknowingly. That he had some sort of connection to the darkness that led him to end up as Xehanort's apprentice, since we weren't completely sure how much Ven remembered of his past before he lost his memories due to the trauma of having his heart thorn in half.

What if this is somehow true, and Vanitas actually knows more than we were led to believe? It's so weird that every other defeated Org Member has some sort of redemption while he has that open ending, but maybe he's hinting that him choosing Darkness was a way to protect Ventus so he could be Light. I don't know, maybe this is just me hoping he'll get more than the poor writing they gave him here.

DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS

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That person was me, I suppose.
And yeah, I've considered the things you've said, too. That maybe there's more to it, because we didn't get to hear what kind of Darkness Vanitas wants to be, in which realm, with what purpose, we don't get to hear why Ventus first urges him to choose for himself and then just goes "Okay", as if he understands something that Sora and the player aren't supposed to understand (yet), or why there's nothing after Sora saying "how is this okay?!"
There's a ton of things this could mean. Unlike most of the other members, Vanitas also didn't really look defeated to me, as in on the brink of death. It was rather like he decided "this isn't worth it", and finally gave up. Maybe he keeps being "Ventus's shadow", like he claimed, lingering in the darkness to balance out his light. But that's what angers me so much: It's all maybe and possibly, but since that's his very last scene, the only thing that suggests there being more to it is the fact that Chirithy does find back to Ventus, somehow, thus indicating that we will still learn more about his importance to the UX plot.
Like you, I'm hoping there's more to it, and I certainly headcanon that there is, because I'm not ready to accept so little of a conclusion for Vanitas, but I'm also not sure if this is simply wishful thinking and Nomura, at the end of the day, simply didn't care to give him a fair ending, after almost everyone else got some sort of redemption or "chance at a new life", with Sora even offering them to have a new start once they meet again.

 

[Noivern]

DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS WITHIN DARKNESS

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That person was me, I suppose.
And yeah, I've considered the things you've said, too. That maybe there's more to it, because we didn't get to hear what kind of Darkness Vanitas wants to be, in which realm, with what purpose, we don't get to hear why Ventus first urges him to choose for himself and then just goes "Okay", as if he understands something that Sora and the player aren't supposed to understand (yet), or why there's nothing after Sora saying "how is this okay?!"
There's a ton of things this could mean. Unlike most of the other members, Vanitas also didn't really look defeated to me, as in on the brink of death. It was rather like he decided "this isn't worth it", and finally gave up. Maybe he keeps being "Ventus's shadow", like he claimed, lingering in the darkness to balance out his light. But that's what angers me so much: It's all maybe and possibly, but since that's his very last scene, the only thing that suggests there being more to it is the fact that Chirithy does find back to Ventus, somehow, thus indicating that we will still learn more about his importance to the UX plot.
Like you, I'm hoping there's more to it, and I certainly headcanon that there is, because I'm not ready to accept so little of a conclusion for Vanitas, but I'm also not sure if this is simply wishful thinking and Nomura, at the end of the day, simply didn't care to give him a fair ending, after almost everyone else got some sort of redemption or "chance at a new life", with Sora even offering them to have a new start once they meet again.

HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER! HEY, BROTHER!

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I feel you so much. It's so hard to accept what he got but we still have to endure it. All in all, there's always been those little tidbits about Vanitas that kept me wondering if there was more to it.

First of all, there's the fact that although he's Ventus, he's also somehow independent enough to exist on his own? He was supposed to only be his Darkness, but at the prologue for BBS we know Xehanort did not expect Ven to survive through linking his heart with Sora, so somehow it's possible for the Darkness in someone to exist on their own without being a Heartless?

Then, there's also the fact that the Ventus we fight in KH3 is, like all others, a Replica from the past. So the Ventus we rescue and fight alongside in KH3 is completed Ven who already has Vanitas back into his heart.

The ending seems to imply that Ven has got some, if not all of his memories back. If that extends back to only after he was found by Xehanort or if it includes his time as a Dandelion we have yet to know, but it brings even more questions:

What is his relationship with Xehanort, exactly? We see no closure on that whatsoever and they never talk about how he was his apprentice before going to Eraqus. That was already a plothole in BBS, but it's even more so here.

It's even more interesting when we think of how Xehanort never seemed to consider him a possible new vessel even as Vanitas, while it's pretty clear he intented to use Terra for that same purpose.

Considering the open plot we have with Xehanort's pilgrimage implied in the Secret Reports and the whole deal with the land of Keyblade Masters we fight Xehanort in (Sorry, it'll take a while for me to remember that name) and whatever happened to it, I'm hoping the whole Ventus thing has more to it than what we know of.

 

[Squood!]

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Why couldn't they make the two cutscene stars in the Final World more noticeable?? Or at least have the Namine one happen automatically???

 

[VoidGear.]

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Why couldn't they make the two cutscene stars in the Final World more noticeable?? Or at least have the Namine one happen automatically???

MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG

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I even almost missed it! I was one Sora from collecting all of them when I thought "hm, maybe talk to these stars first ". That's really aggravating and makes it feel like a last second add-in, tbh

 

[brandedkarma]

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One glaring plot hole in the game is Sora getting surprised by Vanitas' face even though he already saw it in La Cite des Cloches. He didn't have the mask on when he saw him there.

 

[VoidGear.]

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One glaring plot hole in the game is Sora getting surprised by Vanitas' face even though he already saw it in La Cite des Cloches. He didn't have the mask on when he saw him there.

KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT

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Especially since Sora explicitely says "you were at the cathedral", proving that he DID notice Vanitas being there.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because maybe Vanitas appeared to him very...blurrily, like schemes or whatever. But it's still dumb. Why make the effort to have Sora acknowledge Vanitas's appearance, only to then have him surprised again? It was odd.

 

[Squood!]

MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG MY HEART IS STRONG

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I even almost missed it! I was one Sora from collecting all of them when I thought "hm, maybe talk to these stars first ". That's really aggravating and makes it feel like a last second add-in, tbh

KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT KINGDOM HEARTS IS LIGHT

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Especially since Sora explicitely says "you were at the cathedral", proving that he DID notice Vanitas being there.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because maybe Vanitas appeared to him very...blurrily, like schemes or whatever. But it's still dumb. Why make the effort to have Sora acknowledge Vanitas's appearance, only to then have him surprised again? It was odd.

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I always thought Sora was dwelling more on Xehanort's words rather than Vanitas.

 

[Neo_]

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I just finished Twilight Town and, I must say, KINGDOM HEARTS III really evolved that world. It feels like an actual town. Even though it's shorter than KHII's rendition, it has a lot in it that compensates for that matter. I also love how we got to see the villains interact in this world with Sora and with Xigbar, who seems to be supervising the events of the game.

Something I'm disappointed in is I wish you could go in some of the buildings and even the Bistro and there would be people sitting there. The films and Remy's cooking are really nice touches that make it feel like a living and breathing place, but I feel like there could be a bit more of that.

 

[the red monster]

Real talk, the dark clones boss theme is ears exploding in a good way.

 

[Gambler]

Sweet merciful, diddlying Christ I just finished the game. Had a few issues with the story, but overall I was satisfied and extremely happy!

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There was a lot of stuff in the lead up to the final scenes of the game that did get me all misty-eyed, that's for sure. The UX thing was really neat but my finger's died a horrible death lol.

One thing that I now have to ask is where do we go from here in the narrative? That ending really feels like I'm missing something, or that the Secret Ending will likely explain it. Either way, was really happy to see new outfits for Xion and Lea / Axel. Xion's outfit looks so fucking snazzy.

Here's to what lies beyond, fellers.

 

[destiny seeker]

wheres the secret ending?? :3

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Something I'm disappointed in is I wish you could go in some of the buildings and even the Bistro and there would be people sitting there. The films and Remy's cooking are really nice touches that make it feel like a living and breathing place, but I feel like there could be a bit more of that.

I get what you're saying, but overall, Original Worlds took the bench in this game. A lot, and I mean A LOT, of attention when to Disney and Pixar worlds. Hopefully Nomura and SE receive enough criticism in order for them to make ammends for KINGDOM HEARTS IV and onwards.

Speaking of worlds:

I finished Toy Box/Toy Story. Best. World. EVER! Period. Haha. I really liked the role Young Xehanort played in this world, and how the plot elements worked well in this world with its characters. And I love how there is heavy foreshadowing in this world to whats to come, since I spoiled myself to some very important plot points. The game's story isn't feeling as rushed as I made it out to be after leaks.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Speaking of worlds:

I finished Toy Box/Toy Story. Best. World. EVER! Period. Haha. I really liked the role Young Xehanort played in this world, and how the plot elements worked well in this world with its characters. And I love how there is heavy foreshadowing in this world to whats to come, since I spoiled myself to some very important plot points. The game's story isn't feeling as rushed as I made it out to be after leaks.

Yea, lol, I absolutely love how Woody verbally roasted Young Nort despite having met him only for a few hours.
And Ben Diskin probably had a blast voicing Young Nort again as he sounds very in-role.

I have finished Olympus, Twilight Town and Toy Box and am roughly half through Corona by now and it is true, the leaks while delivering some huge WTF moments delivered only a perforated view on the whole as much of the context and build up is delivered throughout the Disney worlds and interval cutscenes.

I find the glossary and character section of the Gummi phone to be also pretty informative this time around.

 

[Absent]

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That Secret Ending was so underwhelming. Can’t believe I stayed all night for that.

 

[faemarch]

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Nomura is dead-set on having his Versus XIII, huh.

Anyway, that secret ending left more questions than it answered, typical KH lol.

Nice music, nice visuals, and still interesting, nevertheless.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

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That Secret Ending was so underwhelming. Can’t believe I stayed all night for that.

Do you mean the

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WTF 2 minute video with Riku and Sora awakening in what appears to be Shibuya and that "Yozora"-character showing up as well as a "new" black coat character?