Spoilers ► KINGDOM HEARTS 3 Re Mind DLC Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Face My Fears]

- However, the sigil cutscene is one of the most cringy and unnecessary cutscenes I ever saw in this franchise. What made Axel/Roxas/Xion bond special is that unlike the other nobodies. they would meet outside missions to chill out, eating ice cream and have fun together. Not because of a sigil. All nobodies names have the sigil and Nomura as the character designer should know that a lot of characters have the sigil to on their outfits too - Riku (KH1), Sora (KH3D), Young Xehanort, Eraqus, Terra, Aqua, Ventus...
I really don't get what he was trying to do here...

I loved the sigil scene (biased, but anyway). I think what Nomura was going for was that Xemnas still had their sigil to monitor them. It was mentioned in the scene that it was the "foundation" of what bonded them, not the thing that made it special. I think they meant that having the Organization's recusant's sigil was something they endured and from that experience came their special bond -- ie they met each other because they all bore the Organization's recusant's sigil and through that mutual experience they began to hang out and get to know each other (and presumably grow hearts). Hence Roxas wanting to "reclaim" it from Xemnas was to awaken (and I guess free) his, Lea, and Xion's heart from being owned by Xemnas (and be the spark to make Roxas and Xion more than just replicas).

The sigil isn't just an X on clothing, it's something Xemnas bestows upon someone so that he can monitor them. It was never confirmed that Riku in KH1 had the recusant's sigil (I think his outfit is just an X), and I don't think Young Xehanort, Eraqus, Terra, Aqua, or Ven had it. If Ven and Aqua had it, Xemnas would have been able to find them easily. The only other person outside of the Organization that I remember having the recusant's sigil is Sora from KH3D, which Xemnas placed on him at the start of the game (and presumably took back before their fight).

Anyway, I hope this makes sense and is actually correct. If anyone else that knows more about that scene can chime in, please do because I don't want to mislead Neku.

PS: Goodluck with Xion, Master Xehanort, and Yozora... stock up on Elixirs and prayers and anything else you can get lol!

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

I loved the sigil scene (biased, but anyway). I think what Nomura was going for was that Xemnas still had their sigil to monitor them. It was mentioned in the scene that it was the "foundation" of what bonded them, not the thing that made it special. I think they meant that having the Organization's recusant's sigil was something they endured and from that experience came their special bond -- ie they met each other because they all bore the Organization's recusant's sigil and through that mutual experience they began to hang out and get to know each other (and presumably grow hearts). Hence Roxas wanting to "reclaim" it from Xemnas was to awaken (and I guess free) his, Lea, and Xion's heart from being owned by Xemnas (and be the spark to make Roxas and Xion more than just replicas).

The sigil isn't just an X on clothing, it's something Xemnas bestows upon someone so that he can monitor them. It was never confirmed that Riku in KH1 had the recusant's sigil (I think his outfit is just an X), and I don't think Young Xehanort, Eraqus, Terra, Aqua, or Ven had it. If Ven and Aqua had it, Xemnas would have been able to find them easily. The only other person outside of the Organization that I remember having the recusant's sigil is Sora from KH3D, which Xemnas placed on him at the start of the game (and presumably took back before their fight).

Anyway, I hope this makes sense and is actually correct. If anyone else that knows more about that scene can chime in, please do because I don't want to mislead Neku.

PS: Goodluck with Xion, Master Xehanort, and Yozora... stock up on Elixirs and prayers and anything else you can get lol!

The problem comes from the X sigil never being a big deal with them before. It's not like it was ever treated as something that haunted over them or anyone else in the Organization. It was just...a thing, and nothing more, so it comes off rather ridiculous that this letter they never cared about is suddenly so important to them.

There's also how they can somehow take them from Xemnas, as if they were in his pockets or something.

I can only describe the scene as two kids and their adoptive father beating up a male model for his shiny stickers.

 

[Face My Fears]

The problem comes from the X sigil never being a big deal with them before. It's not like it was ever treated as something that haunted over them or anyone else in the Organization. It was just...a thing, and nothing more, so it comes off rather ridiculous that this letter they never cared about is suddenly so important to them.

There's also how they can somehow take them from Xemnas, as if they were in his pockets or something.

I can only describe the scene as two kids and their adoptive father beating up a male model for his shiny stickers.

Did most people really hate this scene? Because I actually felt deeply moved by it and thought it was a great scene lol.

I mean it was a major moment for Roxas because he does reminisce on when he received his "new name". Xemnas and Axel bring it up as well in Days. For me, it felt like Roxas was finally freeing himself from Xemnas and the Organization. When I saw him take back the sigil, I just remembered the moment Xemnas marked him with it and it just felt like a powerful moment seeing Roxas take it back and be in control of it. I know it wasn't discussed as this major thing and constantly brought up, but I liked how it was a subtle part of Roxas' character and actually completing Roxas' arc -- he's no longer just Sora's nobody or a pawn of the Organization, he's finally free of the X and free of the Organization and free of Sora, finally his own person. I thought it was very creative of Nomura to use the recusant's sigil to accomplish that for RAX's story and really liked it.

 

[Chaser]

Did most people really hate this scene?

Yep, most people hate it.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

I didn't hate the Sigil scene, like Face My Fears I'm bias towards RAX. However I do feel it kinda came out of nowhere. If they had made that more a thing with them in the Organization the payoff would have been great, honestly this to me is where Xemnas should have ended. But like Sakuraba Neku said, what made RAX's connection wasn't the Sigil. It was the time they spent together eating ice cream on the clock tower and bonding. It's what separated them from the other members in that they cared for one another and were friends. The Sigil didn't play a role in that. Again I don't hate the scene but like the Subject X reveal, I wish there was some buildup to this because I think it's a good moment that could have been a great moment.

 

[disney233]

I feel like the sigil was something picked up in DDD, dropped like most other tidbits throughout the series, and then just...tried to bring it back in the most useless way possible. There COULD'VE been other ways to bring back the recluse sigil, but...just not for RAX's relationship, because it wasn't BASED off of that.

 

[Absent]

I don’t hate it but it feels out of place. I agree with the idea and implications of the scene but I just don’t like how and when it happened.

 

[OneDandelion]

I didn't hate the Sigil scene, like Face My Fears I'm bias towards RAX. However I do feel it kinda came out of nowhere.

This is the real problem with it. By itself the scene was executed well enough, but it doesn't make any sense because we followed Axel, xion, and Roxas in great detail and the sigil never comes up like that as an item of significance. The fact that it was so important to them that they're attacking Xemnas to get it back makes no sense and is inconsistent. But this isn't the first time this type of thing has happened and unfortunately it's clearly just a Nomura asspull moment where he probably thought up a purpose for the sigil a decade after 358/2 days and now he wants it to be important to the story.

Maybe it will lead to a cool moment in the future but the flaw of having a series span 18 years is that stuff like this happens.

 

[Face My Fears]

I dunno, I feel like it worked really well. Roxas (Xion and Axel presumably) all started in the Organization with that one moment when Xemnas basically branded them as his property. Not just starting in the Organization, but from the second they were born they were deemed Xemnas'. I thought it was a nice way to end their relationship/arc with the Organization by reclaiming what Xemnas forced upon them. Instead of Xemnas branding them with it again (maybe Xion even got it twice), they took it and own it.

I think this was a very subtle thing that may have been even worse if they expanded upon it. I preferred how subtle and "out of nowhere" this was, probably because it makes sense to me and it was something that I didn't even think they should do. After seeing the scene, I was glad that they did it. Basically, I think that the scene works because of how subtle it all was. If in Days or 3D, we hear Roxas/Xion/Axel say "we need to get back the recusant sigil from Xemnas to be our own person", I think it'd be too expository and thus come across as an annoying plot point that people wouldn't take kindly too. However, I do think if there was a scene in 3D where Roxas/Xion/Axel feel like Xemnas always owned them and that they could at least be truly free if they got back the recusant's sigil from Xemnas, then it would still be subtle, but give the scene in ReMIND more meaning (it would also foreshadow Sora having the sigil in 3D).

 

[SweetYetSalty]

I dunno, I feel like it worked really well. Roxas (Xion and Axel presumably) all started in the Organization with that one moment when Xemnas basically branded them as his property. Not just starting in the Organization, but from the second they were born they were deemed Xemnas'. I thought it was a nice way to end their relationship/arc with the Organization by reclaiming what Xemnas forced upon them. Instead of Xemnas branding them with it again (maybe Xion even got it twice), they took it and own it.

I think this was a very subtle thing that may have been even worse if they expanded upon it. I preferred how subtle and "out of nowhere" this was, probably because it makes sense to me and it was something that I didn't even think they should do. After seeing the scene, I was glad that they did it. Basically, I think that the scene works because of how subtle it all was. If in Days or 3D, we hear Roxas/Xion/Axel say "we need to get back the recusant sigil from Xemnas to be our own person", I think it'd be too expository and thus come across as an annoying plot point that people wouldn't take kindly too. However, I do think if there was a scene in 3D where Roxas/Xion/Axel feel like Xemnas always owned them and that they could at least be truly free if they got back the recusant's sigil from Xemnas, then it would still be subtle, but give the scene in ReMIND more meaning (it would also foreshadow Sora having the sigil in 3D).

I agree with your last statement in that I wouldn't want something like this to be expository and have them constantly mentioning getting their sigil from Xemnas. Something as subtle as a early meeting in Days where Xemnas brands Xion during her induction and then Roxas thinking back to when he got his name would have been enough to explain Xemnas owns every member, as there is a threat of Xemnas being able to turn members that don't perform well enough into Dusk. To me the sigil didn't have to be used as the foundation of RAX's friendship but just something they take back to escape ownership of the Organization as you said.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

The Sigil cutscene feels out of place because the only time that thing was relevant was way back in 2007 (13 years ago, teehee). And back then, we thought the cutscene between Roxas and Xemnas was a symbolic situation and not actually something tangible.

 

[Sakuraba Neku]

Beat all the 13 Organization Data Battles. Only Yozora left.

Favourite: Xion. I also liked Marluxia, Larxene and Xemnas a lot, but Xion was definitely special.
The music and her flashy moveset really left a mark on me. Alyson's performance also helped. As Kairi she has been a hit or miss, but as Xion she's always great. I plan to fight her again, but I want to defeat Yozora first.

Hardest: Xion, Saix and Master Xehanort.

Most disappointing: Young Xehanort. I was expecting him to be stronger.

Niptick: Sora's poker face in the intro against Master Xehanort bothers me a lot. He grins his teeth against some opponents, but against Master Xehanort is just

About the story and Data Greeting:

Data Greeting - Not my cup of tea, but it has more potential than I thought.

Story - I'm loving where this is going. Now I just hope they don't screw up.

Being able to run with Riku inside Merlin's House and in Radiant Garden central square in Data Greeting with Sora is such a tease. Radiant Garden should have been properly included.

Hopefully we get something more in the future. The game sold a lot and there's cleary still interest on it from the fanbase.

I never saw a DLC pack elevate a game so much like ReMind did for KH3. If one year ago someone had told me I would have more fun playing the DLC stuff than the base game I would laugh, but that's what really happened.

Major props to the staff! I was still skeptical after the base game, but seems like the franchise gameplay is in good hands again. If this was all done by the same Osaka team, they sure have come a long way. Now they only need to bring back a good director and/or writer to help Nomura, because Nomura alone is not as good as he thinks.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

The Sigil cutscene feels out of place because the only time that thing was relevant was way back in 2007 (13 years ago, teehee). And back then, we thought the cutscene between Roxas and Xemnas was a symbolic situation and not actually something tangible.

They shouldn't have done it in the first place. The idea in Nomura's head didn't translate well in its execution. It felt extremely tacked on to drag out this scene with RAX. They have every reason to fight Xemnas, but it being for the Recusant Sigil when it had no basis throughout their story and the characters themselves didn't care about it until then was random. They made it seem so important and significant despite no build up. Doesn't help that Axel's Lea now. It didn't help my low opinion of them as a trio either. Why is everything about them so melodramatic. Like why. Is there an answer?

I might as well just watch La Usurpadora.

 

[Face My Fears]

They shouldn't have done it in the first place. The idea in Nomura's head didn't translate well in its execution. It felt extremely tacked on to drag out this scene with RAX. They have every reason to fight Xemnas, but it being for the Recusant Sigil when it had no basis throughout their story and the characters themselves didn't care about it until then was random. They made it seem so important and significant despite no build up. Doesn't help that Axel's Lea now. It didn't help my low opinion of them as a trio either. Why is everything about them so melodramatic. Like why. Is there an answer?

I might as well just watch La Usurpadora.

Their melodrama is what makes me love them lol.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Their melodrama is what makes me love them lol.

To each their own. I just wish I was able to skip.

 

[disney233]

Why is everything about them so melodramatic. Like why. Is there an answer?

I might as well just watch La Usurpadora.

There are many reasons why I felt nothing about the trios aside from SDG. RAX's drama is the turnoff point as to why I...just don't feel so much for them. The reason why I dislike the TAV trio is that individually, their character just seems...weird to me. Just don't get me started on Terra. And finally, the SRK trio. I HATE THIS TRIO BECAUSE THEY'RE BARELY A GODDAMN TRIO! SDG has that chemistry, expressive personality, and the development that...does not go so well with the other trios.

 

[Sign]

To each their own. I just wish I was able to skip.

Same. I was so afraid I'd miss something interesting so I forced myself to sit through all of Re Mind without skipping a single scene. After we basically zoomed right by the other 3 battles in the maze with little to no changes and then had to sit through over 30 minutes of this RAX drama, I was pissed xD

 

[NoWay]

Oh my God I managed to defeat Vanitas, Young Xehanort and Xigbar. If I’m continuing with this “speed” I’m gonna finish the whole limit cut episode in one year.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Same. I was so afraid I'd miss something interesting so I forced myself to sit through all of Re Mind without skipping a single scene. After we basically zoomed right by the other 3 battles in the maze with little to no changes and then had to sit through over 30 minutes of this RAX drama, I was pissed xD

I was left with "..." with the Recusant Sigil bs, it reminded me of why I hate this trio and the entirety of their game, and then finally moved forward to what I hope was something more interesting, less repetitive and boring (aaaand...well, I have my opinions on the DLC :x ). I swear, if it wasn't for Roxas being stuck with them, I wouldn't have bothered.

Please free him in the future, Nomura. He already has other connections he branched out with.

There are many reasons why I felt nothing about the trios aside from SDG. RAX's drama is the turnoff point as to why I...just don't feel so much for them. The reason why I dislike the TAV trio is that individually, their character just seems...weird to me. Just don't get me started on Terra. And finally, the SRK trio. I HATE THIS TRIO BECAUSE THEY'RE BARELY A GODDAMN TRIO! SDG has that chemistry, expressive personality, and the development that...does not go so well with the other trios.

At least TAV didn't make me go -

And want to escape.

I think everyone is aware SRK are hardly a trio. Their individual character files are about Sora.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

Their melodrama is what makes me love them lol.

Same here! I love the melodrama. I don't care how unpopular they are on this forum, the RAX stuff was like the main reason I even bought ReMind. Even if I'm split on the use of the Sigil.