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Kingdom Hearts 2 Retrospective



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dlppictures

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I am 95+% sure that the Thresholder/Possessor fight is indeed percentage based.
I have no recollection of ever seeing anyone beat Possessor in one round, not even in speedruns. Nor do I have of more than two rounds.
I believe the Possessor is guaranteed to return to Thresholder at 50% health.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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"Why he was outside, I don’t know. He may have come to the door to greet Shang, or maybe to say 'echo' into his massive courtyard and hear it come back to him three or four times." "I respect your professionalism, Captain Li. You made the right move by locking Shan-Yu in with Spaceman Magicsword and Lady Dragonfire here, I promise." "I’m not going to break a simple spoiler policy just because some fungus wrote a gang sign on its back with a bedazzler."

^
I laughed so hard at those. Great job. LOL.

Anyway, I read the first part of the update and it's as great as usual:)

And dude, I had no idea that you could fight the bird (or that it could kidnap you), and the voice of the Emperor died a year after KHII came out (that last one's so sad)!

These Retrospectives just keep proving that as much as I think I know KH, there's still a lot more that I don't actually know and I wouldn't prefer it any other way:D

And I have to agree about the Mushroom XIII as compared to the Mushrooms in the first game. At first I thought I'd hate them, but I actually grew to enjoy the challenge they provide, and I'm just so glad that they don't disappear. LOL.

...

Okay, just read the Beauty & the Beast section, and I never really thought about how Days does go ahead and better elaborates on what's going on with the Beast's Castle here. Point to Days for that, definitely.

And I'm continuing to love you pointing out KHII's script edits, btw. It really seems like they're chockfull of them, but were it not for you, I probably never would've noticed them at all! Major kudos, and thanks for that. LOL.

And you're certainly right about this being Donald's best game. LOL.

I don't know if you know this (you probably do), but Haley Joel Osment actually voiced Chip in Beauty & the Beast: the Enchanted Christmas. Before KHII came out, I always hoped that KH would get HJO to reprise his role, so we could hear him acting to himself, but alas (I guess that's what that scene with Sora and Vanitas in DDD is for, though;)).

...Also never noticed that the possessor blocks the keyhole. Apparently I'm just unobservant. XD

Yep, I also thought that the colored text post bubbles in KHII were nice!

And I may be alone on this, but I always thought that the Wardrobe cutting off the story with, "It was a dark and stormy night... and that's enough for now," was for comedic purposes. I could be way off, but I know that I always get a kick out of it! LOL.

"While I suppose we’ve seen a restored world in the shape of Destiny Islands, you’ve never visited a restored world as a player, so you’ll be reassured to know that everything is in its proper place. Everything, that is, except the Beast’s beloved and feared magic rose..." I really like this paragraph here, and how you tie it into the part about the misplacement of the Beast's rose so eloquently. I could take lessons from you when it comes to writing, that's for sure=)

Edit: And you're reminding me that KHII does have a good story--by talking about great moments (such as Sora being an amazing person, and in character, by promising to help Mulan out by taking his own share of the blame)--and that's so great, honestly. Thank you for that^_^
 
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Blackdrazon

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I am 95+% sure that the Thresholder/Possessor fight is indeed percentage based.
I have no recollection of ever seeing anyone beat Possessor in one round, not even in speedruns. Nor do I have of more than two rounds.
I believe the Possessor is guaranteed to return to Thresholder at 50% health.


Thanks, dlppictures, I'll edit that in!


I don't know if you know this (you probably do), but Haley Joel Osment actually voiced Chip in Beauty & the Beast: the Enchanted Christmas. Before KHII came out, I always hoped that KH would get HJO to reprise his role, so we could hear him acting to himself, but alas (I guess that's what that scene with Sora and Vanitas in DDD is for, though;)).

I didn't know that, thank you! I don't know how it slipped me by, but an IMDd page can be like that.


And I may be alone on this, but I always thought that the Wardrobe cutting off the story with, "It was a dark and stormy night... and that's enough for now," was for comedic purposes. I could be way off, but I know that I always get a kick out of it! LOL.

Yeah, you're right of course, though I stand by my second point about breaking up the backstory. I'm glad you like the scene the way it is, though!


Edit: And you're reminding me that KHII does have a good story--by talking about great moments (such as Sora being an amazing person, and in character, by promising to help Mulan out by taking his own share of the blame)--and that's so great, honestly. Thank you for that^_^

It's hard to be mad at Sora for long, he's just a big sweetheart.
 

dlppictures

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So after Wednesday’s post, I have done some, quote-unquote, research.
By that I mean that I have dug my old ‘Piggybank Strategy Guide’ out of the catacombs, and watched some KHII hacked videos.
Here are everything about Thresholder from the strategy guide:

Kingdom Hearts II The Complete Guide said:
Thresholder and Possessor

HP: 137
STR: 15
DEF: 8
Physical: 100%
Fire: 50%
Blizzard: 50%
Thunder: 50%
Dark: 50%
Non-elemental: 50%

Reaction Commands: Release
Situation: Draw the Possessor out of the door when its HP is depleted
STR: -

Info: The Homing Bomb attacks are the Dark Type. The Possessor (98 HP) is inside the Thresholder

Bonus:
Sora: Upper Slash
Donald: Fire Ability
Goofy: HP +5

Before you tackle the Thresholder (the rather unfriendly-looking door), you should eliminate the two Gargoyles. The best to do this is to lure them to the opposite side of the room, keeping well out of range of the long arms of the door. The arms always strike the floor three times in a row (first in the middle, then out to the side, then in the middle again) before pausing for a moment (fig. 3). When you finally manage to get near to the door, a group of Hook Bats will appear; ideally, you should retreat to the relative safety of the back of the room to fight them. When prompted, use the Bat Cry reaction command. Another group of Hook Bats will follow the first. After dispatching them all, you can deal with your principal enemy.

If you attack the door at close quarters it can’t use its arms to hit you, but after a while it will hurl you to the other end of the room. You can tell that this is about to happen when its arms draw back. Dodge sideways at the right moment to avoid a beating. You can also target the door from a safe distance using Blizzard, though it’s fairly resistant to magic.

Once you’ve reduced the door’s HP to zero the Release reaction command will appear (along with some HP orbs). Use Release to draw the real offender, the Possessor, out of the door (Fig. 4). Lock on and attack the Possessor as it floats around the room. When it loses half of its HP, it will retreat back into the door.

You must now start attacking the door all over again. It will launch Homing Bombs, spheres of dark energy, which cannot be blocked (Fig. 5). This may be a good time to deploy the Valor Form. Finally, draw the Possessor out of the door a second time and reduce its HP to zero. You can now enter the Dungeon and free the servants.

And of videos I have watched are Bizkit047 two “Randomizer Runs”, where, in short, every story battle and boss battle have been traded out with some random enemy.
‘First Randomizer Run part 1’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvGuLNteWqI
‘First Randomizer Run part 2’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3JiaiHLw4A
‘Second Randomizer Run’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Vdb4ZEiw0

If you would like to see the Thresholder fights in these runs, then in the first run part 2 skip to 4:09:50, and in the second run skip to 6:28:02.
Even in higher Battle Levels Possessor still returns to Thresholder at half HP, so I think we can confirm it now.


…So why not let Goofy hold the switch? Goodness’ sakes, devs, you could have had Donald and Goofy say: “The Heartless are coming!” “We’ll hold them off!” There, I fixed your plot hole, don’t thank me. That wasn’t sarcasm, don’t thank me.
Huh… I never thought about that. You are right, why are they literally just walking around in the corridor instead of helping?

(you can’t even finish off most bosses, though a few boss-like enemies seem to be beatable)
Are you sure it works like that? I thought that if an attack can defeat a boss it can defeat all bosses. And according to my Strategy guide Anti Form has 4 combo finishers that can defeat bosses.

Anti Form does have some extremely long combos, and given bosses Revenge values perhaps that makes them counter too fast for Anti Form to inflict the final hit?

For me, it’s one of KH2’s best ideas and executions.
I can only speak for myself, but I love Anti Form, and have often equipped ‘Two Become One’ to force out Anti Form when fighting specific bosses. Definitely agree that Anti Form was executed well.


You know, I think I had problems with this when I played it recently in KHIIFM, too. Not as badly as this glitch, thank god, but I remember that Cogsworth would almost lose his grip instantly, which made this whole thing almost impossible to complete.

Then again, I was playing on Critical, so maybe they purposefully made it that hard for that mode? IDK.

LightUpTheSky I know that post is from November, but as seen in my video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd4OcQbxcjE at approximately 7:05 I show that the timer for this 'mini-game' was shortened in FM in general not just in Critical as the safe file in this video is on Proud mode.
I posted a link to my old/dead thread on the first page, which shows several of the differences from the different PS2 versions of KHII. http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-ii/167306-differences-between-versions.html
This video is at the bottom of the OP here.
 

Blackdrazon

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So after Wednesday’s post, I have done some, quote-unquote, research.
By that I mean that I have dug my old ‘Piggybank Strategy Guide’ out of the catacombs, and watched some KHII hacked videos.
Here are everything about Thresholder from the strategy guide:



And of videos I have watched are Bizkit047 two “Randomizer Runs”, where, in short, every story battle and boss battle have been traded out with some random enemy.
‘First Randomizer Run part 1’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvGuLNteWqI
‘First Randomizer Run part 2’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3JiaiHLw4A
‘Second Randomizer Run’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Vdb4ZEiw0

If you would like to see the Thresholder fights in these runs, then in the first run part 2 skip to 4:09:50, and in the second run skip to 6:28:02.
Even in higher Battle Levels Possessor still returns to Thresholder at half HP, so I think we can confirm it now.

Great work dlppictures, I'll definitely edit that in!



Are you sure it works like that? I thought that if an attack can defeat a boss it can defeat all bosses. And according to my Strategy guide Anti Form has 4 combo finishers that can defeat bosses.

Anti Form does have some extremely long combos, and given bosses Revenge values perhaps that makes them counter too fast for Anti Form to inflict the final hit?

Hrm, you've had a better eye for this, so I'm sure you're right. I'd swear it happened in the past, but maybe I'm just wrong! I did try to test it during my run but the only time Sora ever went Anti Form at the end of a boss battle was against a Final Fantasy character in a group battle (a "boss-like enemy"). Again, you're probably right, I can scratch the line.
 
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LightUpTheSky452

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Wow. I had no idea that Cogsworth could get knocked out during the Beast fight, or that you could use a Reaction Command to keep the Thresholder from possessing the gargoyle statues. You learn something new everyday!

"Sora approaches, eagerly calling Beast “prince.” Because when you’re trying to endear yourself to someone who thinks you’re trying to overthrow him, you should reveal that you unearthed private information." Hahaha. I love this quote of yours, Blackdrazon.

Also nice to see Antiform getting some love:D

And I'm willing to bet that you're right about that part in the undercroft originally being meant to be a mini-game. Oh, KHII: All that you attempted, but then couldn't square away in the final product, therefore leaving a lot of loose ends everywhere. (I also had it glitch on me a lot in II.5, making it near impossible to complete.)

Edit: About page two of the update, I always thought that Organization XIII was trying to make the Beast into a humanoid Nobody to join their ranks, but what do I know?

And now you have me hoping that we get another kind of boss fight like that in KHIII. Haha.

I think I somewhat disagree with your stance that Sora should let the Beast somewhat beat himself up here, though. The Beast does that too much. And even if he was at fault here, Sora's trying to let him know that there's a lot more good in him than he otherwise knows, which I think is appreciated. Especially since the Beast is self-loathing, and we all know that at the heart of him he really is a hero.

And I had no idea that Donald's cure spell in II was more like the one from I, and only Sora's really seemed to change for the better. Wow. You notice so much about these game mechanics that I don't, Blackdrazon! Thank you for that. LOL.

Also didn't realize we get the cure spell after fighting invisible enemies in both of the main games, either. I wonder if III will do something similar...

"I mean, do you have any idea how hard it’s been to grab a good screenshot of each new enemy? Sora attacks them, they get stunlocked, and they die! What’s to remember?" Aww, thank you so much for all you do for us in these retrospectives, Blackdrazon! I know it can't be easy for you--I can't even imagine how much work this all is--but we all appreciate it greatly, and it's coming out fantastically:D
 
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Blackdrazon

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Edit: About page two of the update, I always thought that Organization XIII was trying to make the Beast into a humanoid Nobody to join their ranks, but what do I know?

You could easily be right! I think my doubts come from the way they seem to have solidified, if that makes sense. They're "Organization XIII," they have thirteen thrones, they made no attempts to recruit through the entire year of Days, even after they started to lose members... but maybe they changed their mind!

It's almost too bad they never succeed so we could just find out what they were trying to do, you know? Maybe if they converted a villain?
 

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I never noticed Merlin mentioning the "Zero District" before. I think it's because I hate this part and try to hurry through it so I never paid much attention to what's happening. You're right--they had to've been in Traverse Town in an early script. That might explain why an elegant castle world like Hollow Bastion was unwarrantedly turned into a quaint, little town. I mean, why did they even need a town that badly when they already had Twilight Town in this game?

I love the KH2 storyline for 100 Acre Wood and the mini-games are so much better in this game.
 

Blackdrazon

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That might explain why an elegant castle world like Hollow Bastion was unwarrantedly turned into a quaint, little town. I mean, why did they even need a town that badly when they already had Twilight Town in this game?

That's a good point too, I hadn't thought of the doubling up!

I love the KH2 storyline for 100 Acre Wood and the mini-games are so much better in this game.

So much better.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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I have absolutely no recollection of the Lance Soldier or Merlin's mention of the "Zero District."

Hollow Bastion had to have been Traverse Town in an early draft. It would certainly explain this odd scene with Merlin, and maybe why Organization XIII's appearance earlier was changed to a...less then stellar entrance.
 
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I have absolutely no recollection of the Lance Soldier or Merlin's mention of the "Zero District."

Hollow Bastion had to have been Traverse Town in an early draft. It would certainly explain this odd scene with Merlin, and maybe why Organization XIII's appearance earlier was changed to a...less impressive entrance.
It could be possible that Merlin went to Traverse Town and retrieved the Pooh Book from it's currently unseen Zero District, but being the old man that he is, he didn't mention Traverse Town specifically.
 

Blackdrazon

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Yeah, that's basically our only other option.

Good point about the underwhelming Org XIII entrance, though, FudgemintGuardian.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Demyx's water clones are weak to Fire, leading me to ask "if water is weak to fire in this backwards game, then how did Demyx douse the wall of FIRE?"
 

Blackdrazon

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Demyx's water clones are weak to Fire, leading me to ask "if water is weak to fire in this backwards game, then how did Demyx douse the wall of FIRE?"

KGekwFv.png


But yeah good spot.
 

Elysium

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I've always wondered where the battle with Pete takes place, too. And I wish that had been Hades' coliseum; it would've been a much nicer visual for the tournaments in KH2 than what they went with...

Whenever I would play the Hydra battle on the PS2—even though I find the battle unimpressive, overall—I was always afraid the game would freeze from all that movement, so I would kill the thing as quickly as possible.

I definitely missed the way KH1 would give you spell upgrades or special items. I know it’s such a simple thing, but I would always remember where each spell was upgraded because of it. I couldn’t tell you right off when/where the spells upgrade in KH2 or any of the later games for that matter.
 

Blackdrazon

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I definitely missed the way KH1 would give you spell upgrades or special items. I know it’s such a simple thing, but I would always remember where each spell was upgraded because of it. I couldn’t tell you right off when/where the spells upgrade in KH2 or any of the later games for that matter.

It's really easy to forget, and I had to triple-check each instance in the retrospective because I kept forgetting. When we first unlocked a spell in battle (Fire) I even panicked because I forgot you picked it up from battle and couldn't find it in the video!
 

FudgemintGuardian

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M-I-C-K-E-Y
M-O-U-S-E Mickey Mouse DONALD DUCK! Mickey Mouse DONALD DUCK! Forever let us hold our banner high, high, high, HIGH! AAAAGH THE SONG IS IN MY HEAD!!!!


Having to manually go to Hollow Bastion to get Merlin...
It amuses me a little since back in Beast's Castle they decided to cut straight to Sora pushing the stone in that mini-game, yet for here they felt that we just had to do this ourselves when going straight to the cutscene would have been better.
 

Blackdrazon

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Having to manually go to Hollow Bastion to get Merlin...
It amuses me a little since back in Beast's Castle they decided to cut straight to Sora pushing the stone in that mini-game, yet for here they felt that we just had to do this ourselves when going straight to the cutscene would have been better.

Yeesh, you're right. This feels like a weird sign that somebody was editing the game, but they zigged and zagged through only half the product?
 

FudgemintGuardian

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And it seems… Donald never once mentioned Daisy to Sora in all the time they knew one another?

Which is weird because Donald did mention Daisy once in Sora's presence in the first game, at the end of Deep Jungle.

*Terk rubs Donald and stares longingly into his eyes*
Jane: " I think someone has a new admirer"
*Donald freaks out*
Donald: "No, no, no, no! Daisy would kill me!
 

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Which is weird because Donald did mention Daisy once in Sora's presence in the first game, at the end of Deep Jungle.

*Terk rubs Donald and stares longingly into his eyes*
Jane: " I think someone has a new admirer"
*Donald freaks out*

Donald: "No, no, no, no! Daisy would kill me!

But Deep Jungle has been written out of history. Nothing that happen there will be brought up ever again.
 
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