• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Kingdom Hearts 2 Retrospective



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Blackdrazon

Vulpes Chronicler
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
2,652
Awards
11
And you know, Blackdrazon... you and that other forum user might be onto something, about Kairi maybe originally being on the bike. Sora attacks the Heartless, Riku fires the laser. Perhaps Kairi's the one who was meant to use the shield?

I like this particularly: Divine Past was thinking the speeder was simply imbalanced for the sake of Keyblade attacks, but this makes better use of the various attacks. It could go either way!
 

Elysium

Be Wiser Than the Serpent
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
3,771
Awards
37
I didn't know the Reaction Command in the Xemnas battle no longer worked at all. When I played the ReMIX, I just assumed it was made to work less often or take more skill. I learned to do nothing like you described. The Xemnas battle in general sucks--its the nadir of the Reaction Command.

It's really interesting, and makes me think that (at least in this game) Riku was really concerned about the need to watch over Kairi, and perhaps in dying (and Sora dying, because if you don't get to Sora in that moment as Riku, he's toast; and Riku probably knows it) he's worried about who will take care of/protect her without him (them)?

Or maybe he still loves her, and is languishing with that quote that he'll never get to tell her how he feels?
I know this is ship territory, but while I can see SoKai etched all over KH1, CoM, and KH2 from an objective, story-related point of view, I find it really hard to believe Riku was ever infatuated with Kairi, tbh. Most of his actions in KH1 come out of a place of insecurity and jealousy of Sora. The race at the beginning always came across as more of an attempt to needle Sora about his feelings for Kairi than anything else and even his search for Kairi felt more like a competition with Sora to find her first more than anything.
 

Blackdrazon

Vulpes Chronicler
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
2,652
Awards
11
I didn't know the Reaction Command in the Xemnas battle no longer worked at all. When I played the ReMIX, I just assumed it was made to work less often or take more skill.

As a matter of fact, I also assumed it took "more skill" somehow (like maybe they intended you to intermix Reaction Commands with Aerial Recovery, ala Sephiroth and Marluxia?), and even wrote that into the first draft of the post, but I was never comfortable with it and went looking for technical explanations for the "change." I eventually found the explanation about loading times that I've paraphrased the post, which convinced me. Probably should have kept the link, but I don't honestly know where I put it.
 

dlppictures

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
694
Awards
4
Location
はるかなる故郷
Website
dlppictures.blogspot.dk
The Reversal glitch can happen in the PS2 versions, but it was extremely rare, I have only heard of it happening twice in the game's 10½ year history. So whatever causes it, bad load times, poor port programing, and lack of testing, the glitch was made like 1000x more common. Almost as rare as the glitch was on PS2, is when the glitch doesn't happen on PS3. I've seen it work, so I know it can work.
The Ending cinematic to the throw move is in Vanilla, but to this day I still don't know what triggers it. When playing 2FM I get the cinematic around 65% of the time, compared to like 20%, so maybe it was made more consistent in 2FM, or maybe there's just one specific trigger that I haven't been able to figure out?

Actually, the "Kairi" quote Riku says when he dies, is his standard death cry. (But don't change it in the retrospective, it fits nicely where it is.) You'll just rarely hear it because Riku has both 'Once More' and 'Second Chance', as well as healing abilities, so he will likely never die until the sections of Zebraman's battle where you control him, unless you purposefully strip him of his abilities just to hear it once. (I know I am guilty of that.) I do like the quote as it shows us that Riku really does care for Kairi like LightUpTheSky said, and I especially like it in the Final Boss section for the aforementioned reasons.

I assume that Riku falls to his knees because Xemnas pummeled him in the cinematic after 'Laser Dome'. First an upward strike, over his chest, that sends him flying backwards, later when he jumps to protect Sora, Xemnas turns around and strikes him in the back, before Sora can get to his feet and block Xemnas' attacks. I don't know about you guys, but I'd imagine that hurting beyond all belief.


Ah, yes the king's letter. You can see the trio reacting to whatever is written in the letter, in the scene. Riku smiles, Kairi is nervous/worried, and Sora is just inbetween/confused. It was obviously done this way to garner interest in what was written in the letter.
When Coded was revealed to tell us that, I remember, that after the second chapter of Hollow Bastion was released, the so-proclaimed Climax of the game, and it ended without resolving anything: the official 'Coded: Episode 7 summary' here on KHI began pondering what on earth Mickey could have written in that letter, seing as the game looked to have ended, but not resolved anything. (Rereading the thread now, shows how many believed this to have been the real ending to the game.) One poster, Maggosh, just said the letter would summarize Coded's story as "Shit happened!", and at first I wanted to argue with him, but then I began to think, "Wait, I could easily see Riku laughing at such a statement from the King. And Kairi being worried? Yeah, that too is plausible. Sora being confused? That has sort of become part his character. Yep let's just go with the letter saying 'Shit Happened'". http://forums.khinsider.com/coded/141500-episode-7-summary-spoilers-7.html


And with that, we are finally done with KH2's story. It only took, what, 9 months? From early January to early September. Man it doesn't feel like that long, time flies. Now to the post-game content.
Remind me again how much is still to come.

Mushroom #1 is unlocked now, and with him comes #13 (Their Keyblade "Winner's Proof")
Cavern of Remembrance and with it the Org XIII Data battles.
Terra/Lingering Sentiment/Will/Todomarishi Shinen/Enigmatic Soldier
Sora's bling-bling Crown gained from those three^
The two Secret Endings "The Gathering" and "Birth by Sleep"

Any more?
 

ShardofTruth

Unchained
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
1,722
Awards
6
Simply amazing Blackdrazon and what a boss fight this was, I think with all cutscenes it takes around 20 minutes or so.
 

Blackdrazon

Vulpes Chronicler
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
2,652
Awards
11
Thanks for the info, dlppictures, that clears up a lot!

And with that, we are finally done with KH2's story. It only took, what, 9 months? From early January to early September. Man it doesn't feel like that long, time flies. Now to the post-game content.
Remind me again how much is still to come.

Mushroom #1 is unlocked now, and with him comes #13 (Their Keyblade "Winner's Proof")
Cavern of Remembrance and with it the Org XIII Data battles.
Terra/Lingering Sentiment/Will/Todomarishi Shinen/Enigmatic Soldier
Sora's bling-bling Crown gained from those three^
The two Secret Endings "The Gathering" and "Birth by Sleep"

Any more?

You haven't forgotten a thing! I've also got a write up guessing at KH2's "original draft" based on the evidence they've given us (just for fun) and of course the Appendix, which includes the KH2 manga and a look at the TCG. All-in-all, posts are queued up through the 17th, with Days starting on the 20th - assuming I find myself a DS source for screenshots! EDIT: Nevermind, found them!
 
Last edited:

LightUpTheSky452

Haddyn Slayer
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
1,898
Awards
28
Age
31
Location
Sunnydale
Website
oveliagirlhaditright.tumblr.com
I know this is ship territory, but while I can see SoKai etched all over KH1, CoM, and KH2 from an objective, story-related point of view, I find it really hard to believe Riku was ever infatuated with Kairi, tbh. Most of his actions in KH1 come out of a place of insecurity and jealousy of Sora. The race at the beginning always came across as more of an attempt to needle Sora about his feelings for Kairi than anything else and even his search for Kairi felt more like a competition with Sora to find her first more than anything.

I think it could go either way.

And I also think it's possible that what Nomura was planning with how Riku felt about Kairi changed while he was coming up with later installments, as pretty much now everything just exists to further Sora and Riku's bond. So looking at it from that light, it does seem more like she was a means to an end to get at Sora with, when Riku was jealous of him.

I've also seen theories about how Riku ran to Kairi in 1, because he had seemingly thought that Sora had replaced him. And so Riku worked that much harder to save Kairi, because she was all he thought that he had at that point... and because it would be a way to get back at Sora.

Who knows? Maybe he even tricked himself that he loved her here, when he never really did and the later games stand to prove that?

But honestly? When I look back at just KH1, CoM, and KH2, I do think they were aiming for Riku to have feelings for Kairi there (less and less so, sure, because I think Riku in 2 had decided he didn't deserve her and that she and Sora were probably better off for each other, anyway; so he was being kind of selfless and trying to atone for his mistakes here, by letting his best friends be happy), but I don't think you'd be willing to commit murder for someone--and go completely off the deep end to save them--unless you loved them.

And then there are smaller things about their relationship splashed across CoM and 2, as well (but we do get the most of it in 1... Even if 1 treated it terribly, and was unclear about it, and had Riku treat Kairi like an object more than anything else; but to be fair, that's a problem this entire franchise has. And with SoKai, too):

"Kairi" being the one to come to Riku's aid and assure him that it's okay to use the darkness, when he's about to die.

Kairi being able to see Riku, I guess (though some fans have debated about this and some--perhaps wisely--point out that Kairi only knew it was him because Naminé said so, but this is a debate for another time), and being the one to get him to stay when he's gung-ho about leaving.

And when you talk to him after that, he says how he didn't want Sora to see him like that, but that Kairi insisted--seeming to hint that Riku can't really say "no" to her, and it was really only her (perhaps) that kept him from departing. Not Sora, like the cutscene prior almost seemed to say.

And then I guess what really sells it for me is the novels. If it hadn't been for the CoM one, I had been about to write off that Riku ever felt anything for Kairi, but Reverse/Rebirth goes into SUCH heavy shipping territory with them--and spells out that Riku loves Kairi even moreso than it hints that Sora does Kairi!

I know that the novels aren't canon. At best they're third-tier canon, but they do get the okay from Nomura, right? And if that's the case, then somewhere in his mind he had to be okay with the idea of Riku liking Kairi. Which either means that he wrote it off as something that wouldn't hurt his narrative--and maybe could've been gathered from it when looked at a certain way--or that that was his own intention with Riku all along, that he'd wanted people to see.

...I kind of forget where I'm going with this post now. And from what I've typed, I probably sound like a RiKai shipper, but I'm really not.

The series has treated them (and Kairi in general) so horrible. So very horrible. So I completely understand why people would think that Riku never had feelings for Kairi at all, but either A) Attributed them to her when he thought he was losing everything else. Or B) Was just using her to drive the knife into Sora even further.

And with everything past Days, I could even see that.

But when I just look at 1, CoM, and 2 (especially 1), I do think that it was supposed to be a SoraKairiRiku love triangle. You've gotta look at what the writers were doing at the time. They were trying to do their own version of a Disney story.

And... just know that I say this with love, even though it won't sound like it:

Though we could maybe now say that they were trying to break all kinds of tropes back then (as Nomura loves to turn things on their head, and the later games could add to this argument), in having Riku really not love Kairi... I really don't think they were that clever.

I don't even think people at Disney (at least back then, they seem to be branching off and trying new things now) were that clever or risk taking.

At the end of the day, I think they were trying to tell a simple and clean (ha) fairytale (with all the tropes that come with that), that kids could understand--with maybe a few unexpected things like Kairi's heart being within Sora the whole time and whatnot.

I don't think they were going for much more than that, as they didn't want to burn bridges with Disney (this game was supposed to be a tribute to Disney, even, and it very much does feel like a lot of their older, trope-heavy films in some areas); and they were very much testing the waters, and didn't want to take too crazy risks--as they had no idea how this whole thing would blow over.

It probably wasn't until KH1FM became a thing, and Nomura knew they were getting a sequel and Disney was deciding to be more lenient with Square from now on, that he decided he could truly start thinking outside of the box.

But I could be wrong.
 

Elysium

Be Wiser Than the Serpent
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
3,771
Awards
37
Well, I was giving my opinion by looking at KH1-CoM-KH2 only, when there was a tinge of romance hinted there between Sora and Kairi before they shot off into an eternal friendzone for everyone. I could see they were implying it with Sora and Kairi, but not with Riku and Kairi. Most of the things that connect him to Kairi in CoM and KH2 felt like friendship, not much different from how he thinks of Sora. We don't see things like Kairi being at the center of his heart the way we do with Sora in CoM, or Sora daydreaming about dancing with Kairi, or the paopu drawing. With Riku, everything about Kairi comes back to Sora one way or another and his need to be the stronger, big brother who Sora looks up to/depends on.

I mean, it's especially glaring since up until he sees Sora's working with D&G in TT and feels like he's been replaced/unimportant, he shows very little concern or interest in Kairi's well-being. For instance, when the islands are imploding, Sora has to yell at him about Kairi twice before he'll even say anything about her, and even then it's like he's just placating Sora. Why did he offer Sora the chance to go with him, but not Kairi who was over in the Secret Cave a little walk away? And he must have asked Maleficent to find/take him to Sora before he asked her about Kairi, since she only helps him look for Kairi long after she took him to see Sora. As for the KH2 reunion scene, he had planned to leave even though Kairi was asking him to stop, it's only after she calls him Riku and Sora walks up to him that he stops and looks back at Sora. His character arc revolved around guilt over his actions towards Sora, not Kairi so much (except maybe in a general sense in regard to how he screwed everyone on Destiny Islands over).
 

catcake

eien no chikai
Joined
Mar 3, 2015
Messages
1,448
Awards
27
Location
Finland
I think it's clear that all three of them love each other. All of them just in different ways. And hey, people change, so the reason they act differently in the beginning of the saga compared to now could just simply be because of that. They learn more about themselves and each other, feelings change, people grow together and apart. Their feelings for each other might be very different from what they were in the beginning. I personally always interpreted Sora's feelings for Kairi as mostly soulmate kind of deep bond, but with some crush mixed in there. The kind of crush kids that age have, cute and pure and innocent. You know, the way he is all the way until the later parts of KH2. Blushing, daydreaming about dancing with her and all that. But, I feel that it somehow changed along the way. He grew closer with Riku, and their relationship is so different. It's comfortable, supporting, fun... whereas meeting Kairi again after all that time was just awkward and strange. So I can't really blame Sora for kind of ignoring Kairi, she's suddenly all there and real and way different from before and how do you even interact with her?? I might think this way because I have similar experiences in real life, so it feels realistic to me. Thinking you really love someone, only to realize that you kind of just expected loving them because it seemed like something you should do. She's a cute girl, he's a boy, of course he should like her, duh. Aand then realizing that it's not that simple at all. That even though she's really important to you, you're very different people and all the romancy feeling just... isn't there. Honestly, I might just be projecting here, but it's how I see it.

As for Riku though, for me he's always been all about Sora. As I said I believe they all love each other, so of course Kairi is important to him too, but I think the romantic side of it was him misunderstanding himself. I'm not saying it's fully platonic, he might have some feelings for her, but not strong enough to actually make it unrequited love or anything. I'm not saying his feelings for Sora are romantic either, there's no proof of that, just that they're really strong. Of course there's also no proof that they're not. To me it feels they are but that's up to interpretation. But Sora is definitely his soulmate, platonic or not, and a pretty perfect half to him.

As for Kairi, who knows. We see so little of her. She's definitely suspicious of Riku in the beginning of KH1, but also the one to reach out to him in KH2. Maybe she has feelings for Sora, maybe not. I hope she gets more screen time and development in the future, and even though I do want to see her interact with the boys, he really needs development outside the trio as well. As her own person, with her own motives.

ALSO one last thing. I don't think Sora's or Riku's obsession over Kairi/Namine in CoM can really be taken as their actual feelings. I mean, before entering the castle Sora was all about finding Riku and the King, and his frantic search for Namine started about the same time his personality started changing overall. It's just Namine controlling their memories and through that, their very selves, rewriting all priorities. I love CoM's story and the character development there, but that particular thing, their feelings for Kairi, aren't really best to interpret from that game.
 

LightUpTheSky452

Haddyn Slayer
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
1,898
Awards
28
Age
31
Location
Sunnydale
Website
oveliagirlhaditright.tumblr.com
I'll reply to you in a moment, Tartarus;) I just read the most recent page of the retrospective, so my mind is brimming with things about that right now. But I will get back to you. Promise!

...

So, I was thinking about it, and I think Xemnas' lines in the last part: "Sora, are you certain you can trust Riku?" and "Riku, are you sure you're not jealous... of Sora?" were probably to add context to Sora and Riku's conversation at the Dark Margin (and a bit before that)?

Because otherwise, the topic of Riku having been jealous of Sora does seem to kind of come out of nowhere. But I still think they could have done better to start it out, than to have Xemnas just yell out random things to try and mess with them.

Thanks a bunch for the shout-out, btw, Blackdrazon. I'm glad that I reminded you of something you're actually interested in, so that you could put it in the update in time:)

...I just realized that my response is probably going to be really long (and all over the place, as I give my thoughts on the game in general and try to address some of the things that were said in this part of the retrospective), so brace yourselves.

And I apologize, that I can never seem to restrain myself to small comments. I fail at life...

Okay, when I first played KH2, I was kind of annoyed at how Sora's so mean to some of the villains in this game, while Riku gets to be more respectful to them. I guess it could make sense of that in some ways, but it still bothers me. What happened to Sora's nice speeches from KH1 (and somewhat CoM)?

I'm referring to the "You're right, Xemnas. Light and darkness are eternal. Nothing probably goes on forever, too. But guess what?" "That doesn't mean YOU'RE eternal," scene, if I wasn't clear.

I always thought Sora was the kinder of the two (until I played this game, though some of Sora's fiery comebacks could be Roxas' fault), but anyway, this is just a miner nitpick.

I actually do like the scene in some ways. Especially Xemnas' "Heh. No more eternal than that radiant of yours" line. I have no idea why, but I adore that.

And I just recently watched NicoB die to the Xemnas fight, in realizing he was supposed to be controlling Riku, too, during the laser show, and it was pretty amusing! I'm glad I never made that mistake!

I'm also pretty sure that that white light after the Dusks show up is supposed to be a time skip...

So, I'm not going to lie: I don't really like the scene with Sora and Riku on the shore that much.

In fact, it was in comparing that scene to KH1's ending, that I finally admitted to myself that I liked 1 better than 2 (when for years I'd thought I preferred 2).

With KH1's ending, you defeat Ansem, you see Kingdom Hearts and he's defeated by it, there's the rush to close the door, Sora and Riku's final (bittersweet) moment together happens, and then Sora and Kairi are parted, with Sora growing up and deciding he's going to go help his friend instead of going home to be with the girl he loves.

But in KH2, it's just two dudes talking on a shore? Okay, I guess.

I don't hate this instance. And now, I do appreciate it a whole lot (someone on KH-Info-Block on Tumblr brings up just how much deeper it is than Sora and Riku's reunion together was, and that is very true; and what they say here is so very important and great character development), but I can't help finding it anti-climatic.

But then again, seeing as how 2's almost treated like the end of this series (at the point that it was made), maybe it makes sense to have a more chillaxed ending, since all threats are gone and most loose ends are tied up here.

I guess what really drives me insane about it is how okay Sora and Riku seem to be with being trapped in the RoD forever, and fading back into darkness, or whatever.

Maybe it's admirable that they'd be fine with doing this--if they think they have no other choice, and that they are reassured that at least their loved ones are alive and safe--but you think they'd be just a little bit upset over this and trying to find a way out!

I also find them both (especially Riku) kind of melodramatic here (mainly talking about the "At least the waves sound the same" line, that I've never been able to make sense of), though Riku always is that way.

IDK. It's a fine cutscene. I don't know why I'm harping on it so much. It's just a bit... strange to me, is all. I don't entirely understand why it's here, or at least for so long at that.

But moving onto cheerier topics: Kairi's letter! I remember when I first played KH2 and got to that moment, I was thinking how pleased I was with KH2--in that it had (I thought) answered every question I had in the game, except for Kairi's letter; but I thought I could live without knowing about that, if I had to--and it was exactly in that moment that Kairi's letter washed up on the beach.

I was so happy. I was like, "Yes, KH2, you tied up every loose end imaginable that I could have ever wanted! Go, you!"

...Even if I was somewhat scared about that back then, too, because I thought that it meant that the series was over for a hot second.

ANYWAY, the ending cinematic is really something spectacular. I'd never seen amazing graphics like that before (KH1's were a bit lesser than 2's, and the opening to KH2 is shorter than the ending cinematic, I think), and I remember playing that scene again and again and again just in order to see the characters looking so beautiful.

My sister even had just gotten a digital camera with its own printer prior to this, and we ended up taking pictures of the characters' gorgeous faces (and even recorded the entire ending on the camera, though it had black lines on it), because I wanted to use them for a clock project that was going on at school; and I didn't have the Internet at the time, and had no idea that anyone could somehow get the images and post them online. That was like black magic to me at the time.

So back then, I was just trying to take the pictures and develop them to put on my clock for tech class--it was the best that I could think to do.

I still have some of those pictures to this day, and when people come over to my house and see them they're like, "How'd you get that?" And I'm like, "Well, funny story about that..."

But I really do love the ending (...despite some slight renovations I have about parts of it now).

And I swear that Sora would've kissed Kairi here if Donald and Goofy hadn't tackled him, which would have made my life complete.

Sora and Riku growing a more healthy bond before all this? A SDG reunion, Mickey cuddling Riku, Roxas and Naminé getting some sort of closure (even though after I first played Days, and became an uber RokuShi shipper, that used to set my teeth on edge for a time--even though I actually played 2 before Days and had shipped RokuNami! But now I'm totally fine with it, and actually do ship RokuNami again; I ship both RokuShi and RokuNami these days), and an amazing SoKai ending (even if Nomura was somewhat cruel to end it so fast)? Yes, please!

Sometimes, when I think about the KH2 ending, I kind of do find myself wishing that the franchise had ended there. Because it would've been so PERFECT. And we still could have had games like BbS, without our main cast having to be involved in it.

But tbh, I am glad that this saga continued--as I love it, and I don't know what I'd do with my life if it hadn't--but I hope that the KH3 ending is as good, or not better, to double make certain it was worth them carrying on after that point.

And the ending where Sora finds Kairi's cave drawing (echoing her movements from before entirely) makes me weak. Absolutely weak! I can get why it's Nomura's favorite scene in the game. Well done, sir. That was a really touching thing that you did there.

It's just nice to have some Sora and Kairi parallels at all, when this series is dripping in the Sora and Riku ones. Now if only we could get some Riku and Kairi ones...

So then we have the epilogue. And how I laugh at the fact that some casuals to this day don't know that the letter's contents have been answered in Coded.

It's also somewhat irksome that when we do find out what the letter says, it's partially addressed to Kairi--and even talks about her in it--but then Sora and Riku leave her for DDD and are just like, "Just kidding. Mickey didn't know what he was talking about in including you in this, and you have nothing to do with this bridge game to 3 at all. Goodbye, now."

...And honestly, since that's the case, I can kind of see why people have come up with theories that Kairi actually had the letter for a long time and held off on giving it to Sora and Riku, because she knew they'd leave her again.

I don't think that idea's true at all (even if the look on her face does give some credence to it)--because when does KH ever care about Kairi's thoughts and feelings on things, or how she suffers?--but if it ever were to be revealed to be true, I could believe it and see how things could have hinted at that.

...But I'm not going to get into that now, because this is supposed to be a happy post. And the KH2 ending does make me happy/is happy.

All in all, this has been SUCH an amazing retrospective, Blackdrazon, and I thank you so very much for writing it.

And I'm especially interested to see what you have to say about KH2's original script! One of the things that I theorize about it is that either just Saïx kidnapped Kairi (and Axel wasn't involved in at all, because he was originally supposed to die), or she never even left the Islands at all and her and Sora's reunion at the end of the game was/is actually their first reunion... That would explain a lot, tbh.

But, yeah: I'm definitely going to be interested to see what you bring to the table next...

Though I have to say that I'm glad that this game is mostly behind us now (and I think that you probably are, too).

As Tartarus said a while back, KH2 is exhausting--even if there are some small things within it (like this ending) that make it so very worth it.

Oh, and I forgot to mention above how the fact that Square Enix decided not to use a different model for the beach Sora and Riku are on leads to so much confusion down the line for casual fans, who think that Sora, Riku, Aqua, and Ansem were all in the same place (when they weren't), and that if Sora and Riku had just waited a bit longer, they could've taken them with them. *sigh*

I also forgot to mention that when I first played this game, I thought Sora's: "Then I guess I'm okay the way I am. I've got something you could never imitate, too," meant Kairi (but then I quickly figured out that Sora would never be mean like that). In my defense, they could have made that line a bit clearer--by actually having Sora spell out "having you as a friend".

...And they could have had Riku point at Sora's heart a better in the epilogue, because it legit looks like he's saying it was Sora's necklace that was the Door to Light and not his heart. LOL.

Also, I really wish the Door to Light had been more of a plot point. All of KH1 (and a bit of this game) set it up as being SO important, but then every game after 2 never even mentions that Sora finally accomplished this thing. It's like it never even happened.
 

KHHacker6595

New member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
506
Age
28
Location
VCR Repair Shop
that was a great wrap of of the main game content. I also agree that the more I think about it, its my least favorite in the series. It used to be my favorite, weird how things change over time.
 

FudgemintGuardian

Moist with roistering
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
6,316
Awards
39
Drazoooooooooon! You didn't mention that Kairi misspells "starting" as "stating" in her letter! ;A; ;A; ;A;

XD But anyway man, well done!
it almost feels weird that the KH2 Retrospective is finished. Well, I suppose it's not technically finished since you got other stuff to talk about. But I'm relieved the nightmare that is KH2 is over nonetheless.

I always liked Xemnas's "blah blah eternal blah". I don't know why. Maybe it's just the "eteeeeeeernaaaaaaaaal" part. XD

I went in to this with the mindset that maybe this Retrospective will change my view on KH2, and every post drove home as to why I put this at the bottom. It's just so....well you know.
 
Last edited:

BlackOsprey

Hell yeah
Joined
Jul 5, 2015
Messages
4,520
Awards
20
Welp, Xemnas has been forever immortalized as "Lightsaber Zebra" in my mind. Thanks a lot, Drazon.
Ok but seriously, that was a great read for a great conclusion for a game that's just kind of all over the place. I can't wait to see what you've got to say about the postgame content and the KH2 manga.

I also find them both (especially Riku) kind of melodramatic here (mainly talking about the "At least the waves sound the same" line, that I've never been able to make sense of), though Riku always is that way.
Riku was probably talking about how the seashore at the Dark Margin sounded the same as the beach at home. I always kinda liked that line... the kid who was so desperate to leave his home a year ago is now nostalgic and homesick. Heh.
 

LightUpTheSky452

Haddyn Slayer
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
1,898
Awards
28
Age
31
Location
Sunnydale
Website
oveliagirlhaditright.tumblr.com
Riku was probably talking about how the seashore at the Dark Margin sounded the same as the beach at home. I always kinda liked that line... the kid who was so desperate to leave his home a year ago is now nostalgic and homesick. Heh.

For some reason, I always took it to mean that the darkness somehow changed all of Riku's senses (or just changed Riku himself) in such a fundamental way, that only the sound of the waves was the same to him anymore.

Now that I've read your post, I think you're probably right:) But you can see why (going off my interpretation) why I didn't like that line for years.

I was like, "Really, Nomura? Really? We're going to go this in-depth with how darkness changes you--which seems a little bit over the top to me--but then not touch upon it at all once you've started setting the whole thing up?"

But if Riku really is just saying he misses the Islands (he probably is), why is the loveable dingbat's words, just a while after he's home, "What a small world." Oh, Riku. -pushes him from the paopu tree and into the water for that-
 

redcrown

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
1,005
Awards
6
Did anyone else think Riku's movements showed signs of being rushed? At least in the vanilla version, he runs and jumps really weirdly, awkward and very stiff, and his running looks like a bizarre gallop. It's makes me think they programmed and designed his animations at the last rushed stage of development. It made saving Sora while fending of the Xemnas clone pretty hard.
 

Ballad of Caius

Player 💀
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
7,270
Awards
9
Location
Shibuya
Did anyone else think Riku's movements showed signs of being rushed? At least in the vanilla version, he runs and jumps really weirdly, awkward and very stiff, and his running looks like a bizarre gallop. It's makes me think they programmed and designed his animations at the last rushed stage of development. It made saving Sora while fending of the Xemnas clone pretty hard.

I wouldn't be surprised. The original KH2 was suffered through rush.
 

Elysium

Be Wiser Than the Serpent
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
3,771
Awards
37
I agree about the Cavern of Rememberance--the best addition to KH2. I especially love how it gives incentive to build up your growth abilities. If the whole game was like that, I would probably have been more likely to overlook how bad the story is and enjoy it anyway.
 

dlppictures

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
694
Awards
4
Location
はるかなる故郷
Website
dlppictures.blogspot.dk
Similar items exist in the Final Fantasy franchise from the same era:
The link directed me to an article that has been deleted/moved. Strangely, though, it seems the new page is called the same.
Trophy Item - Final Fantasy Wiki - Wikia (defunct)
Trophy item - Final Fantasy Wiki - Wikia (working)
I dunno what's going on.


This balloon exists strictly to help you recharge your Drive Gauge,
They also function as hints as to what Drive Form/Growth Ability you need to progress.
The first one, next to the first wall, is red, the colour of Valor Form hinting that you need High Jump to progress.
The two in the first 'Mineshaft' segment are blue, Wisdom Form. You need quick Run.
The balloon at the second 'Mineshaft' segment is yellow so Master Form/Aerial Dodge
And finally the balloon at the final 'Mineshaf' segment is white for Final Form/Glide
This took me years to discover, and I think I was actually told by someone before I noticed.

Still, it’s a close call, and I’m sure others might have better strategies than me.
Personally, I use the Explosion strategy, but speedrunners seem to favour using Final Form Firaga, so maybe that is the fastest strategy?

Some fans don’t seem to like this room much, but for me, finally getting to explore in KH2 was honestly the most fun I had in the entire KH2 retrospective playthrough! Why couldn’t the rest of the game have been like this?
I see your point, and I don't have anything against the room itself. Now that I think about it, I have never spent more time in the room than necessary to progress to the next 'Mineshaft', other than when I have the incentive to grab all the treasures and Puzzles. I don't know why, it's an interesting room. But I find that I have always favoured the 'Engine Chamber' myself, another room that many dislike due to the conveyer belts and exhaust-port-gates. Hmm... I wonder why that is...

If you Aerial Dodge at the start, Sora won’t get past the second set of pipes, even though it seems like he’d have just as much air. I’m not sure what’s going on with that.
It doesn't always happen like that, even if you Aerial Dodge at the beginning. What happens is that Sora, whilst Gliding, bumps into the roof of the 'Mineshaft', which then proceeds to push him down. The roof is not flat here, but instead rugged like a true cave, which is some detail I can appreciate, but it also means that at some places Sora has less wiggle room before bumping into the roof, pushing him down. Which in turn prevents him from getting past either gate one or two.
It is possible to make it all the way, with an Aerial Dodge at the beginning. But also contrary to popular belief, possible to make it all the way, with just High Jump (and Glide of course).

Since you can’t come here before beating Roxas, that means you can see as few as four (Roxas, Axel, Xaldin, Demyx)
As few as three. Unless, it was changed for the HD version, (still haven't been able to try it out, but it's finally on its way from Amazon), Roxas' portal is also only unlocked after clearing the game.
11779s2.png

As can be seen from this screenshot, Roxas' portal is missing.
The image is from my old post back in February here:
I know there’s a while yet, but when you reach the Cavern of Remembrance, will you talk about the glitches surrounding the area? (...)




Another thing with Data Luxord seems to be the loss/gain of time by winning one of his "A challenge is it?" minigames have increased, from somewhat obsolete most of the time, to alwalys take around 1/10 of the entire time gauge.

Demyx is pure spite. You have to clear four sets of water forms before the fight can even begin, the last involving 99 forms in 30 seconds.
Might want to rephrase that, as the 99 water clones is always the last summon at the end of the fight. At any other time in fight, I think he can summon: 13, 25, 50 or 75 forms

And the thing with Saïx's Claymores is that they disappear within 2 seconds after they appear.

I would say the biggest difference for Vexen is the addition of a DM, or if already had that in the AS fight, then I have never seen it there, but I digress. Data Vexen is (almost) guaranteed to DM when he reaches 5 bars of HP, and it is one of, maybe THE, longest DM's in the game, as even one full use of Donald's Comet Limit, with pauses in-between, still has shorter duration time than the Vexen's DM. No wonder he was the Data fight I had the most trouble with way back when...

Xaldin seems to like to teleport around a lot in the second half, with his shield up. A strategy at that point is to wait for Xaldin to teleport towards you, then quickly cast Magnega and double jump/Glide out of the way. Sometimes, Xaldin will recast his Wind Shield and keep teleporting, but eventually you will force him to do the jumping move, where you can RC learn some jumps to quickly drain his health. Just becarfull, as his Jumps are crazyly fast.
 

Blackdrazon

Vulpes Chronicler
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
2,652
Awards
11
Thanks dllppictures, looks like I did a pretty sub-par job here, but with your fixes and some ones from Eamonn at the site, I should be able to patch it up!
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
136
Awards
4
Age
31
Location
Melancholic Sanctuary.
You break through the last door, and find a remarkable sight: an Organization-marked platform inside the Rising Falls, exactly where Sora landed during KH1 (or so I concluded based on the position of Hollow Bastion).

At a guess, I'd say the Castle Gates area where you fight Demyx is more accurate to where the area of the Rising Falls where Sora visited once was. The two archways have a similar design.

The Garden of Assemblage is a bit off to the left of the castle, while the Rising Falls in KH1 was directly in front of the castle.

I like to imagine that the Outer Gardens area in Birth by Sleep later became the area of the Rising Falls with the pond with the white trinity mark, but there are still some inconsistencies with design.
Honestly, the inconsistinces between the designs of Radiant Garden between KHI, KH2, and BBS irk me. Especailly how the design of the castle in BBS retconned the design in KH1 (even though the design can still be seen in the ruined Hollow Bastion)

----
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top