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KHUX NA Medal Rankings



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appleboy82791

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A friend and I have finally finished creating our own rankings for the KHUX NA medals only. This is something I know we've been needing for a long time. Too many of the ranking/tier lists out there catered mostly to the JP medals and rarely accounted for the differences between the versions. Unlike most lists, we will be updating our rankings constantly. Please make sure to read the note at the top of the page to see the factors we considered when coming up with the scores for each medal. We have also explained each medal's ranking. We also used a larger gradation scale than most to show the differences between more subtle variations in medals. This should be extremely useful to everyone out there playing KHUX NA. So, here is the link to our list:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RGkrW28UeGijU1ZT-d1fA3qyMghW1WhqmuaOj00WBvw/pubhtml#

If you feel like you have something to contribute to our rankings feel free to reply. We'll try to consider every point of view.



And also, a big shout-out to Cecily Lam for her list with nearly every stat for every medal. We used her list to help us create our rankings so please check it out:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...JeYS7Mm-hwcglQ7HHYFjY/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=0



EDIT: We are no longer providing updates to this spreadsheet.
 
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Sign

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Guide stuck! Really fantastic job, appleboy. This is going to help a lot of people :)

(Also I'm glad my stat guide is helping!)

Would it be okay if I add a link to your doc on the main site's guide page? With credit of course <3
 

Muke

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Wow!! This is so awesome and informative and aaagh so fucking helpful!! Thanks! :)
 

appleboy82791

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Guide stuck! Really fantastic job, appleboy. This is going to help a lot of people :)

(Also I'm glad my stat guide is helping!)

Would it be okay if I add a link to your doc on the main site's guide page? With credit of course <3

That's fine with me. I'd love to see that link posted on the main site.
 

Rioh

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great work! thank you :) will there be a update for the new speed medals darkside and shadows?
 

Seraph219

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Great guide! I use it pretty often. Just curious, how is Illustrated Cloud's power underwhelming compared to other tier 4 damage dealers. In groups of 3+ Sephiroth is the clear winner. But compared to Sora and Pals Illustrated Cloud has a higher max multiplier (4 vs 3.89), a slightly higher atk stat, same guilt and a debuff effect that grants him a 25% damage boost. Of all the tier 4's on a single target I'd argue illustrated cloud does the most damage.
 

Zithras

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By slightly lacking, I was mostly comparing only its damage output compared to the tier 4 damage-only medals (it is only .09 higher than Sora for 1 more cost, and only 0.42 higher than Sephiroth for 1 more cost, AND loses aoe. from a pure damage perspective, this is not cost efficient). However, once you add in the half-cost damage debuff, and realize the multiplier's still rediculously high, it's a wonderful Tier 4. It does, in fact, do the most damage. It's also the most expensive, as it should be.

It's unquestionably one of the best medals in the game. I personally find Pooh (no explanation needed) and Sora and Friends (single target blue is still pretty rare, and cost-damage ratio is the best ingame) to be very slightly better if I had to choose between them, but it's a close call. Between him and Sephiroth I feel it's a toss-up (but I'm a bit personally biased toward Sephiroth as a FFVII fan, so YMMV).

Cloud's score might change to a 99 or 100, I'm not sure, and haven't had a chance to debate it over with Apple yet, hence the 'score tentative' tag, but in any case, 98, 99, 100...we're well into 'amazing medal' territory here; if you've managed to guilt him, use him! (if you haven't, then still use him, but realize our scores are for fully-guilted medals, so he probably won't be better than a guilted epic, or even certain high-guilted rares).

New medals are in, including Shadows and Darkside, but again, score extremely tentative for now. Darkside is rather weak until guilted, but the high guilt tier helps make up for that (and again, for the score, we're assuming its guilted, which is going to be pretty rare). Shadows is a weird one; I'm not sure how to evaluate it. It's damage-neutral, which is great in coliseum fights, but also single-target, where you usually want damage-neutral units to be AOE, (since you'll be mostly fighting mixed-color packs with them). For now, I've placed him score-wise as 'decent' (he's tier 3, after all), but somewhat lower than the AOE Epic neutral medals.

Zithras
 
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jpic89

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I gotta say, the amount of effort you've put into your guide is impressive, and the fact that you DO in fact keep updating it definitely makes it tops as far as I've seen on the web.

However, (and I do realize tiers are largely opinion) I feel you are missing some important factors when it comes to grading medals.

In particular, I don't think you realize how powerful the medals that debuff just for their attacks are.

For example, you graded Xaldin higher than Timeless Goofy. It's true that Xaldin has a higher multiplier for the same cost, but you are factoring in the value of the debuff improperly.

First off, even if it was an attack buff, it would still put Goofy higher up. 3.50 mp with it's own 25% buff would make it essentially a 4.38 mp, compared to Xaldin's 3.80.

However, defense debuffs are MORE useful than attack buffs when you are attempting higher level game activities.

If you have a level 300 Morningstar, it's defense reduces most attacks to nothing. Even with a 3.80 mp, Xaldin will do almost no damage, because the defense is just too high. However, if you cut that defense by 25%, the enemy can be hit for massive damage.

Arbitrary numbers for example.

Morningstar - 70 defense

Xaldin - 10 attack, 3.80 mp, 100% guilt. 76 total attack, special does 6 damage.

TR Goofy - 10 attack, 3.5 mp, 100% guilt, -25% defense. Only 70 total attack, but Morningstar now only has 52.5 defense. Special does 17.5 damage. Almost 3 times as much damage for the same cost.

So in the end, ANY medal that debuffs for it's own attack is better than the equivalent tier medal that doesn't for higher level activities (for lower levels, the reduction in defense is less than the increase in mp for the other medals.)

So, TR Goofy is better than Xaldin. TR Sora is better than Marluxia. TR Donald is just plain good, as there is no other 3 gauge epic single target atm.

So yeah, your list is pretty good, but the medals that have their own debuffs (and enything that debuffs in general, honestly. Illustrated Ansem lets me MELT bosses in a third of the time, no need for guilt) should be much higher up. The Timeless trio I would say should be the highest non-premium medals on any list.
 

appleboy82791

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I gotta say, the amount of effort you've put into your guide is impressive, and the fact that you DO in fact keep updating it definitely makes it tops as far as I've seen on the web.

However, (and I do realize tiers are largely opinion) I feel you are missing some important factors when it comes to grading medals.

In particular, I don't think you realize how powerful the medals that debuff just for their attacks are.

For example, you graded Xaldin higher than Timeless Goofy. It's true that Xaldin has a higher multiplier for the same cost, but you are factoring in the value of the debuff improperly.

First off, even if it was an attack buff, it would still put Goofy higher up. 3.50 mp with it's own 25% buff would make it essentially a 4.38 mp, compared to Xaldin's 3.80.

However, defense debuffs are MORE useful than attack buffs when you are attempting higher level game activities.

If you have a level 300 Morningstar, it's defense reduces most attacks to nothing. Even with a 3.80 mp, Xaldin will do almost no damage, because the defense is just too high. However, if you cut that defense by 25%, the enemy can be hit for massive damage.

Arbitrary numbers for example.

Morningstar - 70 defense

Xaldin - 10 attack, 3.80 mp, 100% guilt. 76 total attack, special does 6 damage.

TR Goofy - 10 attack, 3.5 mp, 100% guilt, -25% defense. Only 70 total attack, but Morningstar now only has 52.5 defense. Special does 17.5 damage. Almost 3 times as much damage for the same cost.

So in the end, ANY medal that debuffs for it's own attack is better than the equivalent tier medal that doesn't for higher level activities (for lower levels, the reduction in defense is less than the increase in mp for the other medals.)

So, TR Goofy is better than Xaldin. TR Sora is better than Marluxia. TR Donald is just plain good, as there is no other 3 gauge epic single target atm.

So yeah, your list is pretty good, but the medals that have their own debuffs (and enything that debuffs in general, honestly. Illustrated Ansem lets me MELT bosses in a third of the time, no need for guilt) should be much higher up. The Timeless trio I would say should be the highest non-premium medals on any list.

First off, thanks for your input. And I'm glad that our list is useful to you.

Secondly, I see what you're saying when it comes to the importance of debuffs. We try to account for this but understanding the math behind all the different variables isn't that easy. We don't know for sure if a 25% buff gets applied to the multiplier amount like you think it does or if it simply adds .25 to the multiplier. And it's extremely difficult to test these things to find out because there's so many variables. There's the base strength, multiplier, non-attribute buffs, attribute buffs, non-attribute debuffs, attribute debuffs, and are the debuffs single target or AOE. And how do this things build on eachother? For example, is there a difference between attribute buffs and non-attribute buffs? I know a lot of people have found that a 1x non-attribute buff is actually better than a 2x attribute buff. Why is this? I don't know so I can't do those kinds of calculations. I wish I could see the math behind how this game works. I can't.

If I could get someone to provide definitive data to show how the game runs the numbers this would be a lot easier. Until that time, it has to be subjective. And now that you've brought this up, we will consider debuffs more carefully.

And another side note, there's a very good reason we put Illustrated Ansem where he is. Yes, it has as a 2x debuff. However, it's only single target AND it brings you down to near-zero HP. So basically, this limits his usefulness because you can't effectively use him on multiple enemy groups and you can't use him on more difficult content that requires multiple turns. Essentially, it's a moderately situational medal. It can't be used for everything, even though when it is appropriate to use it, it's incredible. Whereas, there are medals like Illustrated Sora that have no downside and are good in every situation. Heck, I even use Illustrated Sora in single target fights because he does so much damage. Illustrated Ansem isn't close to as good as Illustrated Sora.
 

Famassu

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Firstly, awesome guide/ranking list. Been using it to get a general idea of the usefulness of new medals I pull.

That said, I feel like you've underestimated the usefulness & strength of Xigbar. His stats are anything but "midlevel" (I mean, his base STR is 7201, there aren't all that many medals with higher base STR if we leave mega super hyper rare boosted medals out of the equation, Xigbar is very close to some of the highest STR medals like Illustrated Sora & Pals), his max guilt is high at 100%, the "no attribute" special attack makes him very useful in coliseum and high level quests because, from what I've understood, those attacks completely ignore def buffs that are really common in high level quests and because of the high max STR of 8201, that also somewhat pushes past the high defense of high level enemies better than a lot of medals with attribute-specific special attacks but lower STR.

He's basically a reversed speed version of BC Mickey and Jack Skellington, except his max special attack multiplier is a little lower, which is offset by the fact that his special attack only costs two gauges (so he's not as much of a drain on your special gauge in long missions) and he has a higher base str than both BC Mickey and Jack Skellington, which can be more important with high level enemies that have a high defense.

I mean, having gotten a 100% Jack Skellington (w/ ABII Max and fully Chipped & Daled) recently, he completely breaks the game to a certain point. I was nowhere near beating any Adamantine quests past #1s and #2s but with Jack Skellington's really strong, guilt-bonus'd no-attribute attack (and Divine Rose and a couple of Attack Prize Pluses that keep my gauge filled after Jack's 3-gauge attack), I've gotten all of the sub-5th Adamantine quests done except Moogle of Glory's , mostly by just using a tier 2 str buffer and Jack Skellington alone (and occasionally cleaning up with BC Mickey or a friend Jack Skellington).

Xigbar seems especially useful because Divine Rose has a reversed 2.60x slot at +25. Once guilted at decent %, he's seriously a really deadly nuke.
 

Chuuya

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I love this guide!!!!! It's really helpful! Thank you! :D
 

appleboy82791

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Firstly, awesome guide/ranking list. Been using it to get a general idea of the usefulness of new medals I pull.

That said, I feel like you've underestimated the usefulness & strength of Xigbar. His stats are anything but "midlevel" (I mean, his base STR is 7201, there aren't all that many medals with higher base STR if we leave mega super hyper rare boosted medals out of the equation, Xigbar is very close to some of the highest STR medals like Illustrated Sora & Pals), his max guilt is high at 100%, the "no attribute" special attack makes him very useful in coliseum and high level quests because, from what I've understood, those attacks completely ignore def buffs that are really common in high level quests and because of the high max STR of 8201, that also somewhat pushes past the high defense of high level enemies better than a lot of medals with attribute-specific special attacks but lower STR.

He's basically a reversed speed version of BC Mickey and Jack Skellington, except his max special attack multiplier is a little lower, which is offset by the fact that his special attack only costs two gauges (so he's not as much of a drain on your special gauge in long missions) and he has a higher base str than both BC Mickey and Jack Skellington, which can be more important with high level enemies that have a high defense.

I mean, having gotten a 100% Jack Skellington (w/ ABII Max and fully Chipped & Daled) recently, he completely breaks the game to a certain point. I was nowhere near beating any Adamantine quests past #1s and #2s but with Jack Skellington's really strong, guilt-bonus'd no-attribute attack (and Divine Rose and a couple of Attack Prize Pluses that keep my gauge filled after Jack's 3-gauge attack), I've gotten all of the sub-5th Adamantine quests done except Moogle of Glory's , mostly by just using a tier 2 str buffer and Jack Skellington alone (and occasionally cleaning up with BC Mickey or a friend Jack Skellington).

Xigbar seems especially useful because Divine Rose has a reversed 2.60x slot at +25. Once guilted at decent %, he's seriously a really deadly nuke.

Thanks for your input. After considering your points, we changed that medal ranking. You're right, it definitely belongs higher on the list.
 

jpic89

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First off, thanks for your input. And I'm glad that our list is useful to you.

Secondly, I see what you're saying when it comes to the importance of debuffs. We try to account for this but understanding the math behind all the different variables isn't that easy. We don't know for sure if a 25% buff gets applied to the multiplier amount like you think it does or if it simply adds .25 to the multiplier. And it's extremely difficult to test these things to find out because there's so many variables. There's the base strength, multiplier, non-attribute buffs, attribute buffs, non-attribute debuffs, attribute debuffs, and are the debuffs single target or AOE. And how do this things build on eachother? For example, is there a difference between attribute buffs and non-attribute buffs? I know a lot of people have found that a 1x non-attribute buff is actually better than a 2x attribute buff. Why is this? I don't know so I can't do those kinds of calculations. I wish I could see the math behind how this game works. I can't.

If I could get someone to provide definitive data to show how the game runs the numbers this would be a lot easier. Until that time, it has to be subjective. And now that you've brought this up, we will consider debuffs more carefully.

And another side note, there's a very good reason we put Illustrated Ansem where he is. Yes, it has as a 2x debuff. However, it's only single target AND it brings you down to near-zero HP. So basically, this limits his usefulness because you can't effectively use him on multiple enemy groups and you can't use him on more difficult content that requires multiple turns. Essentially, it's a moderately situational medal. It can't be used for everything, even though when it is appropriate to use it, it's incredible. Whereas, there are medals like Illustrated Sora that have no downside and are good in every situation. Heck, I even use Illustrated Sora in single target fights because he does so much damage. Illustrated Ansem isn't close to as good as Illustrated Sora.

Illustrated Ansem is definitely situational, to be sure. But his life drain can be offset by the likes of Illustrated kairi. Put her after Ansem, and you have 3x Atk up plus 2x Def down, with full health still. Combine that with a heavy hitter, and bosses just don’t last. He’s the only reason I managed to clear some of the MoG quests.


As to the matter of how the debuffs work mathematically, I can’t provide math, but I know from personal experience trying to complete high level missions. I have had medals do no damage with 3x buffs, but do massive damage with just 2x buffs and a single debuff. I have used my treasure Trove with a xaldin in the last slot, and timeless goofy in the one before it. Even with the extra .60 boost in attack from the slot, it still did next to no damage compared to Goofy.
 

Kendallchaos

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I love this guide and I'm not surprised illustrated sora is one of the highest it's a freaking beast, one of my party members has a perfect one (max everything and 130 guilt with ABIII as a skill) as his shared medal and I can do 2 health bars worth of damage regardless of the enemy's attribute even against lvl 100s
 

appleboy82791

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I love this guide and I'm not surprised illustrated sora is one of the highest it's a freaking beast, one of my party members has a perfect one (max everything and 130 guilt with ABIII as a skill) as his shared medal and I can do 2 health bars worth of damage regardless of the enemy's attribute even against lvl 100s

Thanks! We appreciate the compliment.
 

BlueAngel

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Will you add Terra medal(the new one) soon?I was checking my last pull and i didnt find it there.
 
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