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KH3D went into the wrong direction



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Samhain

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im a big KH fan as the next guy but i don't understand for those who bash me because i think it's a terrible story

First they pulled up some Voldemort BS from their a$$ by saying that the entire Organization XIII was to create 13 Xehanort's by Xehanort splitting his heart and blablablablabla
Then they go on saying this crap how "Oh yeah nobodies REALLY had hearts the whole time!!!!"
Then they decide to pull out the worst plot ever. you know a story takes a wrong turn when crap time travel comes into play

so now Ansem sod all of a sudden can time travel to the past n tell young MX that he has time traveling abilities and now they can all time travel n crap

THEN you're going to tell me that "oh yeah the xehanort's knew all this was going to hppn"

they knew Terra would resist Xehanort
give me a break...

they rly crapped out now on this game. im not bothering to follow this insane story anymore

and it makes MX taking over terra's body for no reason if he can
"extract" a piece of his heart to take over terra's body. thats all he neededto do

Seriously...awful story now. WTF was Nomura smoking?
 

Oracle Spockanort

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You fucking idiot there is a spoiler section for a reason.
 

impart

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nobody's have no emotions but they are upset because they want to have emotions so they try to get back their hearts.
how can they be upset, or long for something if they cannot feel?
^ that has always been one of Nomura's plot holes

im not really flowing the KH3D plot closely since Im not going to be buying it, because I think the games took to a serious downward spiral after KH1, but

KH1- Kill Xehanort heartless
KH2- kill Xehanort nobody
KH3- kill real Xehanort

thats as simple as it needs to be, but Nomura needs to ruin the series by adding in needless complication to cover up the fact that he dosent know what he is doing and he is making it up as he goes along
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I'm prob going to get banned anyway so

she didn't need to be a jerk about it
I'm older than you btw

How long have you been on this site? You've been on here longer than me, I'm sure. You know the rules. You knew there was a spoiler section. I could ban you for just for having had this thread in the wrong section with spoilers without tags, but we moved it here and gave a warning.
 

State

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im a big KH fan as the next guy but i don't understand for those who bash me because i think it's a terrible story
Every fan has his own individual opinion. Think of it like water and oil; they're in the same place, 'cept they can't mix well.

First they pulled up some Voldemort BS from their a$$ by saying that the entire Organization XIII was to create 13 Xehanort's by Xehanort splitting his heart and blablablablabla
I admit, this took me by surprise, but that was the entire purpose of it; a twist. Looking at the bright side, at least it gives a sense of closure to KH3; you eliminate every possible incarnation of Xehanort. A grand finale, almost a Keyblade War.

Then they go on saying this crap how "Oh yeah nobodies REALLY had hearts the whole time!!!!"
Nobodies having/developing hearts has been hinted in past games before.

Then they decide to pull out the worst plot ever. you know a story takes a wrong turn when crap time travel comes into play
Get over it. Some big time franchises (such as Zelda and Sonic) have implemented this element. Forget about it and enjoy the visuals, soundtrack, gameplay, etc.

so now Ansem sod all of a sudden can time travel to the past n tell young MX that he has time traveling abilities and now they can all time travel n crap
This is no surprise; one of the Xehanorts had the ability, and every secret Xehanort boss (Xemnas, Terra, now Mysterious Figure) is strongly involved in the plot of the entire series, so timetravel was expected to have been introduced.

THEN you're going to tell me that "oh yeah the xehanort's knew all this was going to hppn"
Master Xehanort introduced a piece of his heart inside all of them, so they share his consciousness.

they knew Terra would resist Xehanort
It was to be expected, seeing as Terra's heart is that of a Keyblade Master's and he also has another's heart (Eraqus').

give me a break...
Go outside, take a deep breath, salute your neighbors, drink a glass of water, go out with your dogs, take a walk, do whatever distracts you and get out of this apparent bad mood over something so mute as a videogame's plot, there are much more important and pressing matters right now, everywhere in the world.

they rly crapped out now on this game.
More like plot-twists filled.

im not bothering to follow this insane story anymore
At least see it finish and witness whatever it is Nomura has in store for us during the next saga, seeing as how it's like a fresh start to the franchise (and his mediocre writing). :>

and it makes MX taking over terra's body for no reason if he can
"extract" a piece of his heart to take over terra's body. thats all he neededto do
Master Xehanort envisions a realm where there is a clear and perfect equilibrium between the forces of Light and Dark. During his studies, which involved traveling around the worlds, he recollected information of the Keyblade War, an event which created the Xblade, key to the summoning of Kingdom Hearts over to the Realm of Light. With all this knowledge, he decided to recreate one of the events that forged the blade that would summon KH; a conflict between a heart of pure darkness and one of pure light. This would create the Xblade, a weapon he would use to summon the omnipotent force that would grant him the power to balance all things out. But he realized his body was too frail and old, he wouldn't last enough time to complete his ideals and be witness for it, so he decided to transfer his heart to someone; Terra.

In the end, his plan failed, but during his years as apprentice Xehanort, he devised another one; recreate the Keyblade War. He had the body to posses the power he needed, what was left was a group big enough of Keyblade Wielders that consisted of light and dark wielders (dark wielders which would he would artificially generate by implanting a piece of his heart into potential individuals), all confronting each other, forging the Xblade, which would finally fall into the hands of Xehanort, thus finally accomplishing his goal.

In summation;
Xehanort possessing Terra and implanting a piece of his heart into someone else is entirely different. Xehanort is directly possessing him, while a piece of his heart means corrupting their body so they submit to darkness and wield a keyblade at the same time.

WTF was Nomura smoking?
Nothing, he's just retconing the plot by clarifying on things he should have clarified on years ago and revealing subtle hints he left in past games right now. If he had clarified all of this years ago, threads like this wouldn't exist. I.E. he could have openly said in KH2 or two games before this one that Nobodies have the ability to develop a heart.

In summation;
The series' plot is suffering from mediocre writing.
 

State

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After KH2, everything has been a retcon-galore, so people shouldn't be surprised by retcons, but more by the directions the series is taking. '_'

With all these new canon stuff we're getting, it might make the setting for the next saga better (and generic); a world where humans and Heartless/Nobodies can coexist peacefully. Suddenly, an unknown force threatens to destroy this balance. A trio of heroes has to deal with whoever is wreaking havoc.
 

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I wouldn't call it retconing. Some things, yeah, but the rest has just been expanding on concepts we didn't think would be important or would happen.
 

MardukKurios

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Well Time Travel is Square Soft / Square Enix Master Plot Device featuring in Games like:

Final Fantasy (I)
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Chrono Trigger

And now Kingdom Hearts.
Actually the Timeline of Kingdom Hearts is still a mystery if you really think about it.
Most "Worlds" which are visited are nearly every time on our Planet.
Mulan is set in China, Peter Pan was also Set in London, Hunchback of Notre Dame is in Paris, Tron is somewhere in the USA I suppose and so on and so on and Pirates of the Caribbean is you know where, so you can throw in another question:

When Sora met all of them in seperate "Worlds" but always on the same Planet, he visited them everytime in another Timeline, but still on the same Planet.

You cannot place Paris out of nowhere and say that after the borders of Paris the "World" Ends in a Twilight Zone where you go out and come back in the same place again. (Pokemon Movie Number 11 anyone? XD)

Actually the story still makes sense, even if its gets more and more confusing, still it kinda ravels up in the end.

Well something else about this:

If Sora would've woken up later, in case of logic, then he would not meet them in the kind of time anymore.
Because in KHII you can see clearly that the time for every World is moving on and you revisit them with something what happens later.

So the "Time" Question is better not answered or even thought about.
 

State

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I wouldn't call it retconing. Some things, yeah, but the rest has just been expanding on concepts we didn't think would be important or would happen.
I can understand some of the things, but others no. I.E. Xemnas had two goals; get a heart and make a world according to his ideals. It was revealed in Days that he could care less for a heart, but more to build a world to his ideals. That wasn't a retcon, that was a shift of importance. Previously, he yearned for a heart, now he aspired a world he could create from zero. That was back in Days, now in 3D, it's revealed he made the Organization in name of getting hearts that are strong enough to withstand Xehanort's corruption. That is an entirely different angle and never established before.


 

Sephiroth0812

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I can understand some of the things, but others no. I.E. Xemnas had two goals; get a heart and make a world according to his ideals. It was revealed in Days that he could care less for a heart, but more to build a world to his ideals. That wasn't a retcon, that was a shift of importance. Previously, he yearned for a heart, now he aspired a world he could create from zero. That was back in Days, now in 3D, it's revealed he made the Organization in name of getting hearts that are strong enough to withstand Xehanort's corruption. That is an entirely different angle and never established before.

Building a world according to his ideals/from zero is Master Xehanorts end goal though, so there isn't really a contradiction. Xehanort wants to destroy everything and then rebuild it more to his liking and Xemnas is not really different, well, because he was in on Xehanort's plan all along, as was Ansem, who tried to flood the universe with darkness in KH1, leading to the same end result: The Realm of Light is destroyed.
The way they did go about it was different because of their nature as beings and having different minds as Xehanort, but the desired end result was always the same:

1. Get a hold of the powers of Kingdom Hearts, in whatever form it is available at the time (Door to Darkness-KH for Ansem, man-made KH from collected hearts for Xemnas)
2. Destroy the universe
3. Rebuild it to his own liking.

---

Like Spockanort said, there aren't that many retcons around. The OP is, again, overeacting and just stating things he already rambled about before.
Restating the stuff doesn't make it suddenly right.
 

Hillboy

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Most of this stuff has been hinted at forever, it was only a matter of time before we were really told the truth
 

State

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Building a world according to his ideals/from zero is Master Xehanorts end goal though,
Back at KINGDOM HEARTS II, I interpreted world as a single world, not an entire universe like Master Xehanort stated.

so there isn't really a contradiction.
Never said the goal was a contradiction, more like a shift of importance. I.E. A government that first's fiscal year focus is health, then the second is education.

Xehanort wants to destroy everything and then rebuild it more to his liking and Xemnas is not really different,
Now that you mention it, I didn't exactly thought how would Master Xehanort could balance things out, so now that you mention it, it makes him even more of an anti-hero.

well, because he was in on Xehanort's plan all along, as was Ansem, who tried to flood the universe with darkness in KH1, leading to the same end result: The Realm of Light is destroyed.
You're thinking all of it in the videogame's perspective, that's okay, but back in the real world, none of that was clearly and directly established from the start. Tetsuya Nomura has admitted in the past that he writes the plot as it goes, so he doesn't revise things before writing, more like remembering. With writing like that, retcons are ensured to appear (which have happened after KHII).

The way they did go about it was different because of their nature as beings and having different minds as Xehanort, but the desired end result was always the same:
Again, this was established now, not rocksolid in the past. Back in KINGDOM HEARTS, we thought Ansem was Radiant Garden's sovereign, trying to control Kingdom Hearts to do God knows what, seeing as how it was a one time game (like METAL GEAR SOLID, which later got sequels and prequels). On the contrary, Ansem is revealed to be the Heartless of the REAL Ansem's apprentice posing as him, trying to get KH to balance things out, failed, decided to use his time traveling powers to create an army of Xehanorts.

In summation;
Nomura is adding, expanding and retconing some things, but there are more things that he's adding and expanding than retconing.

overeacting and just stating things he already rambled about before.
He just needs to process the information and understand it, wait for KH3D, play it, and FINALLY understand it even more and wait for an inevitable interview.

it was only a matter of time before we were really told the truth
More like finally clarifying this after YEARS he could have used to state things (like in KINGDOM HEARTS 358/2 Days, it was hinted back in KH2 Final Mix that Axel and Roxas had a heart, so why not FINALLY set things through in Days where, yet again, there's a hint, not a statement.)
 

axel95

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More like finally clarifying this after YEARS he could have used to state things (like in KINGDOM HEARTS 358/2 Days, it was hinted back in KH2 Final Mix that Axel and Roxas had a heart, so why not FINALLY set things through in Days where, yet again, there's a hint, not a statement.)
I get your point with this. But from a business perspective, why explain a bunch of stuff in one or two games when you could make four, explaining everything and adding a little bit more to the story? More games means more money for Square Enix, which is what they want. While it stinks from a consumer's perspective, as long as each game is fun and adds to the story I won't be complaining.
 

Luap

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I get your point with this. But from a business perspective, why explain a bunch of stuff in one or two games when you could make four, explaining everything and adding a little bit more to the story? More games means more money for Square Enix, which is what they want. While it stinks from a consumer's perspective, as long as each game is fun and adds to the story I won't be complaining.

Plus, that's just how story telling works when there's multiple entries. If you read any book series, play any game series, or watch any movie series, you will notice retcon. The sequels aren't set in stone when the first ones are created, they might be planned, but they usually are just vague ideas of the direction the story should go. With a series like KH that has many titles, those vague ideas will wind up changing a lot just because of the fact that it takes a long time to make these games and so they have more time for them to come up with new ideas that they might like better.

Retcon can be a good thing. It allows for more surprises. As long as nothing is contradicted, which nothing has been, so.
 

State

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But from a business perspective,
Stopped reading there, seeing as how I FULLY understand where this is going to go.

why explain a bunch of stuff in one or two games when you could make four, explaining everything and adding a little bit more to the story? More games means more money for Square Enix, which is what they want. While it stinks from a consumer's perspective, as long as each game is fun and adds to the story I won't be complaining.
Now I finally understand all this rubbish about sidegames. :>
 
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