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KH2 story ruined by DDD?



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KevVentus

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Hi, I'm new here. I've been thinking about a certain topic and I need an outlet to express myself among other devoted fans. So Organization members have been confirmed to return to their full selves in Kingdom Hearts 3D right? Well I was trying to figure out what the main goal of Kingdom Hearts 2 was... and I came to the conclusion that it was to stop the Organization (Which seemed like a dumb way to drive the plot... who were they hurting by trying to restore themselves??). In the end, Sora and Riku stop Xemnas and the others and save the day.
But now in 3D we find out that by defeating the Organization, Sora actually accomplished their plan for them.... so what I'm asking is: Did the events of Kingdom Hearts 2 make ANY progress in Sora's story? Or was the plot even more flawed than I thought...
 

Reagan Rayden

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It's funny I was actually thinking of something similar just now. In my opinion the Organization wasn't a wholly evil group. They just wanted to become normal people again. Namine said something about this as well early in the game. I'm still not sure why it was necessary to stop them from becoming normal people again.

I think it was something along the lines of "If they became whole using Kingdom Hearts they would become super-powerful godlike beings and would rule all the worlds" like when Xemnas absorbed the shattered Kingdom Hearts moon. That may be completely false so don't take my word for it.

I know for a fact that Xemnas had a different plan up his sleeve that the other members did not know about that had to be stopped.
"I'm creating a brand new world one heart at a time."

So stopping Xemnas was necessary.
 

Key of Valor

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I think it was stated somewhere that the Organization didn't necessarily want their old hearts back, but rather they wanted entirely new hearts. However, now that many of their original selves have returned, I would imagine that most of them would be satisfied with the outcome.

The Organization's pursuit for having hearts of their own wasn't necessarily bad, but the way they went about achieving those goals caused a lot of problems. Because of their apathy and indifference, they just went around to different worlds, causing as much trouble as they could in order to produce as many Heartless and Nobodies as possible. Also, the Organization sought the power of Kingdom Hearts, which is too much power to be entrusted in the hands of uncaring villains. Xemnas' plan for what he wanted to do with Kingdom Hearts also put world order at risk, and presumably would elevate him to god-like strength.

Sora's main goal wasn't to prevent the Organization from getting hearts of their own. His main goal was to stop the Organization from continuing all the dangerously evil stuff that they were doing in their pursuit to get hearts of their own.

The plot for KH2 definitely has its flaws in how it was structured and presented. However, Sora's efforts ultimately did accomplish a great deal, and many dangerous forces that threatened the world were eliminated... or at least temporally delayed.

As for Sora's progress as a character... I guess by confronting an enemy that wasn't aligned with darkness, he learned to not view things as strictly black and white, but he did develop a bit of a prejudice against things that can't feel emotions...
 

MinerKing

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I think you are looking at this the wrong way. While we might see the events of Kingdom Hearts 2 as accomplishing the goal of the Organization, Sora and the others certainly didn't anticipate this. Sora didn't know that by slaying thousands of heartless, he was helping achieve the Oranization's plans. The problem with the Organization is that they would go through any means necessary to get hearts, even if it meant interfering with other worlds and their inhabitants. The progress made was Roxas rejoining with Sora, returning Riku back to his normal self, the defeat of the Organization and their dastardly deeds, the list goes on.
 

Reagan Rayden

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I think Riku put it best as to why they were fighting the Nobodies of the Organization when he said, "It's simple. It's because you mess up our worlds".
 

Taochan

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Organization 13 was comprised of Nobodies who were inciting some chaos on the worlds; DDD doesn't ruin what you did to stop them just because the original Somebodies of the Nobodies are revived.
 

Wehrmacht

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the organization is like, the worst thing that happened to the series, honestly

if all of them are back it's kind of sad
 

Mirby

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the organization is like, the worst thing that happened to the series, honestly

if all of them are back it's kind of sad

demyx would be back, but he's so lazy he couldn't be bothered to become a somebody again.
 

Taochan

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the organization is like, the worst thing that happened to the series, honestly

if all of them are back it's kind of sad
worse than sora having xion/roxas/ventus/vanitas/god knows who else just chillin' inside of him, really?
 

Wehrmacht

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worse than sora having xion/roxas/ventus/vanitas/god knows who else just chillin' inside of him, really?

roxas is part of the organization bro...

but i guess it's more like they were the start of the downfall
 

DMrayZ

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... Okay, Let me clarify a couple things, note, this is opinion, and only My view on it.
Organization XIII was Not evil, at least, not simply for being nobodies. But their somebodies? I'd say those mother f'ers were pretty wicked. I mean, look what they did to Ansem the Wise. They took over, and cast him into the realm of nothingness, Why? No, seriously, why? I forgot... But that's evil, and I know they wanted nothing good from it. Now I know you'll say not all of them were his assistants, and as we've seen, they retained Some semblance of their former selves when they were nobodies (ie Axel's "Got it Memorized?" quote. But as we saw, they each acted with either good or bad intent. Xaldin messing with the Beast, for instance, or any of the attacks on the worlds. Fact is, there was nothing inherently wrong with them wanting to become whole. However, they were wrong in how they pursued it. The fact that they're back in DDD, I believe, is trouble.
 

Taochan

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roxas is part of the organization bro...

but i guess it's more like they were the start of the downfall
i know

i just can't fathom anything being worse than the mess that's inside of sora, lol
 

Sephiroth0812

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Hi, I'm new here. I've been thinking about a certain topic and I need an outlet to express myself among other devoted fans. So Organization members have been confirmed to return to their full selves in Kingdom Hearts 3D right? Well I was trying to figure out what the main goal of Kingdom Hearts 2 was... and I came to the conclusion that it was to stop the Organization (Which seemed like a dumb way to drive the plot... who were they hurting by trying to restore themselves??). In the end, Sora and Riku stop Xemnas and the others and save the day.
But now in 3D we find out that by defeating the Organization, Sora actually accomplished their plan for them.... so what I'm asking is: Did the events of Kingdom Hearts 2 make ANY progress in Sora's story? Or was the plot even more flawed than I thought...

The main goals of KH 2 were
1st finally find Riku and bring him back to Destiny Islands (personal goal for Sora)
2nd save the worlds from the threat of Organization XIII, who are villains (except for Roxas) and not just some misunderstood woobies.

A dumb way to drive the plot? Excuse me?
The Organization was capturing hearts en masse preventing them from being reunited with their true body, messed up countless worlds by unleashing heartless on them (the very same thing Ansem SoD did in KH 1) and deliberately attacking and manipulating innocents in order to turn them into heartless.
They were no less dangerous to the worlds than Ansem SoD and his heartless legions were in the first game.

Xemnas and the Org existed as the main threat during that time, so they had to be stopped as was already confirmed.
Yen Sid knew according to Nomura that something like the return of the somebodies would be possible, but it couldn't be avoided since the worlds were in danger right then.

I think it was stated somewhere that the Organization didn't necessarily want their old hearts back, but rather they wanted entirely new hearts. However, now that many of their original selves have returned, I would imagine that most of them would be satisfied with the outcome.

Sora's main goal wasn't to prevent the Organization from getting hearts of their own. His main goal was to stop the Organization from continuing all the dangerously evil stuff that they were doing in their pursuit to get hearts of their own.

The plot for KH2 definitely has its flaws in how it was structured and presented. However, Sora's efforts ultimately did accomplish a great deal, and many dangerous forces that threatened the world were eliminated... or at least temporally delayed.

As for Sora's progress as a character... I guess by confronting an enemy that wasn't aligned with darkness, he learned to not view things as strictly black and white, but he did develop a bit of a prejudice against things that can't feel emotions...

Yes, that was confirmed. The nobodies of Organization XIII wanted to have all benefits of a heart and acquire one to be whole, but they didn't want to become their somebodies again.
In the end it comes down to the same end result anyways, they were threatening masses of innocents and disrupting entire worlds big time, so they had to be eliminated.
I seriously don't get it why there is still so much effort put into excusing the stupid Organization. Them not having true emotions doesn't excuse their crimes against the universe, that's as idiotic as gaining sympathy for a murderer or rapist in real life because he/she had a bad childhood.

The Org was pretty much aligned with darkness though, although Sora indeed doesn't care what element was in play. If you threaten the worlds or friends of Sora you're going down.
Not to mention they were constantly messing around with Sora, using him and playing mind games, it's not that surprising he got pissed after a while with their constant meddling and endangering others.
In the end, they got what they deserved out of their own fault.

i know

i just can't fathom anything being worse than the mess that's inside of sora, lol

The mess inside of Xehanort and his whole soccer team perhaps?
Unlike Sora's heart hotel though, we know very little about the Xehanort mess. ;)
 

Saken

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The organization was following Xemnas' orders.
Perhaps Xemnas just told everyone that completing KH would give them hearts, but the true purpose was something different entirely?

Remember that both Xemnas and Ansem SoD died in the presence of KH, and they both appear in the RoS, so...

Food for thought.
 

KevVentus

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I guess saving the worlds is a reliable enough plot device... The Organization just don't really make the best villains in my opinion. They're interesting characters, but they lack the mystery and intimidation factors Ansem had in the original. As for finding Riku, it was practically an accident. The whole feeling of Kingdom Hearts 2 to me was Sora stumbling around and just happening to do something right. Hopefully 3D will have more direction

On the topic of Sora's multiple selves... don't get me started. Roxas being best friends with the memories of his former self... and we're supposed to be sad when they both return to Sora?? I'm not buying it.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I guess saving the worlds is a reliable enough plot device... The Organization just don't really make the best villains in my opinion. They're interesting characters, but they lack the mystery and intimidation factors Ansem had in the original. As for finding Riku, it was practically an accident. The whole feeling of Kingdom Hearts 2 to me was Sora stumbling around and just happening to do something right. Hopefully 3D will have more direction

On the topic of Sora's multiple selves... don't get me started. Roxas being best friends with the memories of his former self... and we're supposed to be sad when they both return to Sora?? I'm not buying it.

Isn't that was KH is about? Saving the worlds, saving friends, keeping world order yadda yadda yadda? Of course it is a "reliable" plot device since that is what is the end goal of Sora's actions.

The entire Org wasn't meant to be "villains". Antagonists, yes, but only a few of them actually fit the bill of villain.

Yeah, KH2 was Sora stumbling around. He just woke up from a year of sleep having no clue what happened. :\

Of course DDD will have more direction. It's the bridge into KH3. If DDD doesn't have structure, KH3 will be just as unstructured.


YOU MUST BE NEW. People don't really care about Xion or even like her much 'round these parts. Not many people even feel sad about Xion's story.

Also, why do you think Roxas wouldn't become best friends with Xion? She was familiar, and they had a lot of similarities. Of course they'd become friends.

@____@
 

KevVentus

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I actually do like Xion. I loved the Tears scene. I'm just saying that if you take a step back and look at their relationship, its really nonsensical. It's just more of the strange concept of people existing in multiple forms, and it adds to the convolution. I'm really not a fan of that whole plot point.
If Xion were a real character and not just another Sora spinoff, I would have a lot more respect for her. As for now, she's alright though.
The same goes for Namine. I just can't fully care for these characters because they aren't real people. I guess that's how they're supposed to be treated in the KH universe : S

I didn't said Roxas shouldn't be friends with her. I just don't think their fates were bad. Shouldn't they be existing together inside of Sora? I feel like it would be unnatural for everyone to be "restored"...
 

MASTER260

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The way they attempted to bring themselves back to being human was going to, as a side effect, destroy the universe. (Which doesn't make much sense to me, if the universe is gone, than how can they be a alive as humans anyways?) This is why Sora needed to stop them. Luckily they way they actually ended up being humans again did not have this side effect, so it's all good in the hood. (They should probably be arrested for attempting the apocalypse, though...

EDIT: Also, (& I believe this was reflected upon for a few seconds in the manga,) you could say that KH2 ruined the story of KH1 since in KH1 they were trying to close the keyholes to all the worlds & in KH2 they were trying to reopen them...
 

KevVentus

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What do you mean they were trying to reopen the keyholes?

Also, was the "door to light" officially opened at the end of KH2? I never fully understood that... which is kind of silly since that was such a big point in the very beginning and very end of KH..
 
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