KH1 Sora is too much of pacifist

[Puck]

I played KH1 again and I realized how much better Sora is in KH2. He's more gray and realized that you have to sometimes do morally gray things( including kill a group of people who want hearts) to bring peace. In KH1, he was an overly light side pacifistic fool.

Making Sora into a more gray character was perfect.

 

[Sir Jecht]

Well in KH1 all you had was the Heartless and Xenahort's heartless trying to plunge the world in darkness so you can't see that as a gray topic because Xenahort wanted darkness to consume all and that's it.

In KH2 the Org wanted to be whole again and I feel that's a bit more of a gray topic but Sora doesn't really realize that it is because he doesn't exactly try to reason with them nor does he feel conflicted when facing them so he doesn't seem to get the morality in any of it IMHO.

That's how I see it.

 

[Dawning Twilight]

it was new to Sora and he had yet to experience all the stuff he had leading up to KH2 including puberty lol but seriously. he hadn't had the experience necessary until KH2 started. before then he was a light hearted naive little boy who thought the world was all joys and Popsicles ^^

 

[Puck]

To try to reason or redeem the Org., wouldn't be gray. That's light side to the fullest extent. The see no evil in people doing bad things and try to make it good is the way of the light.

The gray thing is what Sora did in KH2. To protect those around you, you have to do some bad things which means killing people like Demyx. The Org. is also gray. That's why I call the Sora/Org. battle the gray war, which is why it's so awesome. Because they are both gray and they are fighting each other.

 

[Sir Jecht]

To try to reason or redeem the Org., wouldn't be gray. That's light side to the fullest extent. The see no evil in people doing bad things and try to make it good is the way of the light.

The gray thing is what Sora did in KH2. To protect those around you, you have to do some bad things which means killing people like Demyx. The Org. is also gray. That's why I call the Sora/Org. battle the gray war, which is why it's so awesome. Because they are both gray and they are fighting each other.

No what I meant by reason was he sees that they aren't exactly evil but they aren't exactly good either. If he tried to reason with them it would show that he doesn't necessarily see them as black and white since he would feel he could change them since they are really evil but he didn't so yeah.

It isn't gray if he doesn't even care who he has to kill to protect his friends, it's just Sora. He thinks that the Org is evil throughout the entire game expect when Axel sacrificed himself of course but he never felt conflicted with what he was doing or how he went about doing it he just did it an went on with life. In KH1 there is the Heartless and Xenahort and they just want darkness for all worlds, how can you make that into a gray subject? You can't really so Sora had "no choice" but to destroy them because they=bad.

 

[Puck]

Actually, it still is gray. He's doing a light thing by protecting his friends and the worlds but a dark thing when it comes to who he has to kill. The Org. are also doing gray things. They want to be whole like everyone else which is sort of light and will kiill or hurt anyone to get them which is a dark thing.

 

[Sir Jecht]

But he doesn't realize any of it so he isn't gray he's just dumb. Just because he is killing people who want hearts it doesn't make him gray because he does it as if they were just plain evil.

 

[Namine1000]

what do u mean "a gray thing"?

 

[Puck]

Gray. Neither black or white. Not too light, not too dark. Using both evenly. And Sora's motives and actions in KH2 are fully gray just like the Org.

But he doesn't realize any of it so he isn't gray he's just dumb. Just because he is killing people who want hearts it doesn't make him gray because he does it as if they were just plain evil.

You see, that's the light thing to do. To think hard on what the enemy is doing and try to reason with them.

Sora knows that they are hurting people and that everyone he cares about is at risk. To protect them, he has to kill these beings who want to be whole. His motive is protect those around him at all costs including killing someone who doesn't seem to be too evil like Demyx. This realization is what makes Sora gray. The fact that he will kill people like the Org. to makes things safe shows how gray Sora is.

Now if Sora was overly light person, he wouldn't raise his blade. He'd try to talk to the Org, see what they want, try to turn them to the light, and only fight to defend himself but never kill. That's light. What Sora did in KH2 was fully gray.

 

[Halibel]

it was new to Sora and he had yet to experience all the stuff he had leading up to KH2 including puberty lol but seriously. he hadn't had the experience necessary until KH2 started. before then he was a light hearted naive little boy who thought the world was all joys and Popsicles ^^

Exactly, it was all new to him, he just lost his island and friends and he's all messed up.

 

[khluva010]

yeah you're right. I guess that year being in a bubble really got to him...... xD

 

[Sir Jecht]

You see, that's the light thing to do. To think hard on what the enemy is doing and try to reason with them.

That doesn't make sense because in order to be gray you have to show thoughts of thinking that the enemy isn't fully evil but still kill them to protect your friends Sora doesn't do that he just kills because he sees the Org as evil.

Sora knows that they are hurting people and that everyone he cares about is at risk. To protect them, he has to kill these beings who want to be whole. His motive is protect those around him at all costs including killing someone who doesn't seem to be too evil like Demyx. This realization is what makes Sora gray. The fact that he will kill people like the Org. to makes things safe shows how gray Sora is.

What? Sora never took a second thought when it came to killing the Org, he just did it because they were evil in his eyes nothing else. He kills Demyx because he is an Org member and did something bad in Herc's world (can't remember what). Sora isn't gray he is just dumb now any other hero would have seen that the Org isn't all evil but probably would have still killed them because they have to protect their friends.

Now if Sora was overly light person, he wouldn't raise his blade. He'd try to talk to the Org, see what they want, try to turn them to the light, and only fight to defend himself but never kill. That's light. What Sora did in KH2 was fully gray.

No what he did was fully stupid your given him way too much credit. Sora isn't gray he just the same as he was in KH1, he attacks the evil guys without a second thought because he thinks they are evil.

I'm going to keep saying it you know..

 

[khluva010]

No what he did was fully stupid your given him way too much credit. Sora isn't gray he just the same as he was in KH1, he attacks the evil guys without a second thought because he thinks they are evil.

hmm, well if you look back, Sora's matured a bit since the first KH. is he still that good boy and naive? of course! thats how most heros are really. But he's definately matured in my oppion. Is he the ultimate "gray" character now? No, but I definately think he's more aware of himself.

 

[Puck]

That doesn't make sense because in order to be gray you have to show thoughts of thinking that the enemy isn't fully evil but still kill them to protect your friends Sora doesn't do that he just kills because he sees the Org as evil.

Either way you look at it, his actions are gray. Light: He wants to protect his friends. Dark: Will kill the Org. without a second thought to protect his friends.

You see, I judge a character by his actions and reasonings. It's one thing thinking gray, it's all whole nother ball park acting gray. Because you see the Org. acts gray. They don't think gray. Because if they did, they would take sympathy towards those they hurt. But they don't. They act and do things without a second thought. They want hearts which is a very good thing but they will expend anything or anyone to achieve that good goal. Sora wants to help his galaxy and his freinds which is a good thing. But he will kill without question a person he feels is a threat. Look at the actions of Sora and the Org. and you'll see that they are gray. They do bad things with good intentions.

What? Sora never took a second thought when it came to killing the Org, he just did it because they were evil in his eyes nothing else. He kills Demyx because he is an Org member and did something bad in Herc's world (can't remember what). Sora isn't gray he is just dumb now any other hero would have seen that the Org isn't all evil but probably would have still killed them because they have to protect their friends.

Exactly. He feels he's a threat to everyone and takes him down. Is it bad? Yes. Is it the full light thing to do? No. You're failing to see the gray in actions. We have to go by actions and dialogue.

What you're saying isn't fully gray. It's called being sympathetic light sider. Because that means Saix and the whole Org. isn't gray either. Just stupid. But I know full well that Sora and the Org. are gray. Face it, they are.

No what he did was fully stupid your given him way too much credit. Sora isn't gray he just the same as he was in KH1, he attacks the evil guys without a second thought because he thinks they are evil.

I'm going to keep saying it you know..

I'm fully aware you're going to keep saying it. But I don't think you understand. This is gray:

Sora: The organization is evil. To protect those around me I have to kill them.

Orgnanization: Sora is evil. To get hearts we have to kill him and destroy the worlds.

Notice the good(light) intentions in both but the bad( dark)methods. As Noah said in Heroes, sometimes we have to do bad things.

 

[Sir Jecht]

You see, I judge a character by his actions and reasonings. It's one thing thinking gray, it's all whole nother ball park acting gray. Because you see the Org. acts gray. They don't think gray. Because if they did, they would take sympathy towards those they hurt. But they don't. They act and do things without a second thought. They want hearts which is a very good thing but they will expend anything or anyone to achieve that good goal. Sora wants to help his galaxy and his freinds which is a good thing. But he will kill without question a person he feels is a threat. Look at the actions of Sora and the Org. and you'll see that they are gray. They do bad things with good intentions.

Just because I do something bad does it make me a bad person? No. Your actions can be seen as gray but if the person committing the actions doesn't do it with the mentally that what they are doing is on the verge of wrong then they aren't gray.

Exactly. He feels he's a threat to everyone and takes him down. Is it bad? Yes. Is it the full light thing to do? No. You're failing to see the gray in actions. We have to go by actions and dialogue.

He doesn't know what he is doing is bad though he sees it as right since the Org is to him is bad. His actions and dialogue show him as an idiot that doesn't even realize what he is really doing. If you can even see that the Org isn't fully evil then why didn't Sora it's because he is not gray he is just dumb.

Sora: The organization is evil. To protect those around me I have to kill them.

Orgnanization: Sora is evil. To get hearts we have to kill him and destroy the worlds.

Notice the good(light) intentions in both but the bad( dark)methods. As Noah said in Heroes, sometimes we have to do bad things.

What you don't get is that Sora doesn't feel bad about killing them. Look at what you said Sora sees them as evil not as people who are doing bad things to get hearts.

I get that the Org's intention were understandable but Sora didn't realize that. Sora doesn't think he's doing anything bad...so he isn't gray.

hmm, well if you look back, Sora's matured a bit since the first KH. is he still that good boy and naive? of course! thats how most heros are really. But he's definately matured in my oppion. Is he the ultimate "gray" character now? No, but I definately think he's more aware of himself.

By mature do you mean hit puberty because that to me is the only thing about Sora that is different in KH2.

 

[tetraalmasy]

He WAS living on an island peacefully, with out much worry.

But he played sword fights with his friends, you really think he's a pacifist?
WHen he met Leon, he willingly fought him. And when fighting the paracite cage, he was all ready to get into that battle......

 

[KH_Kid]

Yeah, Sora does act kind of gray in KH2 but he had to because if he didn't I think the Org. would have walked all over him and destroyed the worlds. To me that's not a good way for a story to end....

 

[bladed asassin]

sora is for light.. he fights for the light, he chooses light over all. but yes in order to save ur friends and the ones you love you somtimes have to do gray things. that doesn't make him a gray person. it just means he does the right thing for him and the ones he cares about. The organization did what had to do to get hearts, which meant killing heartless and interfering with peoples lives. Sora didn't like the way they were going about this and decided that they were wrong and they had to be stoped. He does whatis right the interest of him and he friends, which can make him look gray in areas.

 

[Sir Jecht]

Yeah, Sora does act kind of gray in KH2 but he had to because if he didn't I think the Org. would have walked all over him and destroyed the worlds. To me that's not a good way for a story to end....

What are talking about he isn't gray he did what he did in KH1, he killed the bad guys because he saw them as bad and nothing else. Sora doesn't think that killing the Org is bad and that is way he isn't gray, he didn't care if they wanted hearts or that it was for a good cause they were hurting people and to him that is evil so they must be destroyed. Not once does he think that killing the org is somewhat wrong, end of story.

He does whatis right the interest of him and he friends, which can make him look gray in areas.

Yeah but he isn't gray the things he does can be seen as gray but the character isn't his mentality is always "the Org is evil and need to be stopped" it isn't "The Org isn't really bad but they have still have to be stopped" it is just "The Org is evil and has to be stopped."

 

[Antiquity]

Gray. Neither black or white. Not too light, not too dark. Using both evenly. And Sora's motives and actions in KH2 are fully gray just like the Org.

"Maybe the Darkness has gotten to me too" -Sora KH2

Well, he is supposed to be light, but that quote basically sums up the idea of grey!

You gotta admit Sora was pretty light in KH1. All he had on his mind was, "OMG the Darkness is coming and it's got Riku we gotta stop it!" and in KH2 "OMG the Organization's using the hearts of dead people we gotta stop it!" most of the game.

I thought Sora was sorta merciful/pacifistical in a few parts of KH2.

With Axel, he could've killed him at Hollow Bastion, but didn't and felt pity for him when he was dying.
He could've also killed Maleficent too when she popped up, but instead tried asking her to stop and even let her live at TWTNW when she could've come after him afterwards.
With Xemnas, he tried to make him realize what hearts really have and even asked him not to absorb KH.

I thought with some of his experience from KH1, he had been at least trying to reason with a few people in KH2. But making Sora grey was a great idea.