KH Unsolved Mysteries

[Face My Fears]

Oh my... this is rather unfortunate, I go in depth to explain this and yet it seems as though someone didn't read my above post.

So ORIGINALLY, Ansem the Wise was responsible for starting up space paranoids and created an original password. Following that, Xehanort enters the picture and changes said password to the seven princesses of heart, as he by this point has usurped the original Ansem, took his name, castle and apprentices. He then reinstates the MCP and Sark, which is something Tron states, the Ansem he knew wouldn't do that. Xehanort at this point remembers his past and the princesses, not Ansem the Wise.

Also, Xemnas visiting the computer room DURING the battle of 1000 heartless has him enter the disc into the slot and then enter in a password with 6 boxes (not 7) that he fills in. Ansem the Wise had 6 apprentices, and their names fill in said slots, giving access to the rooms where the experiments were being performed (In other words, the cells where test subjects were held and experimented on).

How does Xehanort know who the princesses are?

If we go by your series of events, Xehanort could only know - Aurora, Snow White, Cinderella, and MAYBE Kairi - at that point in time. Alice, Jasmine and Belle were discovered years after Xehanort became Ansem/Xemnas. I don't even think Master Xehanort knew who the Princesses of Heart were, so even if you said that Apprentice Xehanort had Master Xehanort's memories, he wouldn't have known Alice, Jasmine and Belle.

Also, how do we know that the security cam footage of Xemnas entering the secret room was during the battle of 1000 heartless? I thought that was a flashback or old footage of Xemnas entering that location. It seems weird that Xemnas would 1) leave the massive battle that he caused to go talk to empty armor and 2) not teleport directly to the secret room while in the heat of battle.

 

[Absent]

This isn't so much a mystery as it is me nitpicking but Riku is like the only person who knew Sora who remembers Sora during the year he slept. Was this due to Namine's intervention, Riku's bond with Sora, or was Riku just that stubborn lol

Or maybe...



Yes, I rushed to make this masterpiece.

 

[Soldier]

How does Xehanort know who the princesses are?

If we go by your series of events, Xehanort could only know - Aurora, Snow White, Cinderella, and MAYBE Kairi - at that point in time. Alice, Jasmine and Belle were discovered years after Xehanort became Ansem/Xemnas. I don't even think Master Xehanort knew who the Princesses of Heart were, so even if you said that Apprentice Xehanort had Master Xehanort's memories, he wouldn't have known Alice, Jasmine and Belle.

Also, how do we know that the security cam footage of Xemnas entering the secret room was during the battle of 1000 heartless? I thought that was a flashback or old footage of Xemnas entering that location. It seems weird that Xemnas would 1) leave the massive battle that he caused to go talk to empty armor and 2) not teleport directly to the secret room while in the heat of battle.

He's been a Keyblade master for decades by the time Birth by Sleep rolls around, and he would know of Alice, Jasmine and Belle from the fact that their respective worlds are likely somewhere in the lanes between, we just can't access them. KH 1 had the brilliant excuse for not having every Disney property represented because of the planetary apocalypse going on, and subsequent games don't really have such an explanation. Evidence for this comes from the presence of Merlin in Radiant Garden and not in whatever the Sword in the Stone world looks like, his presence suggests that his homeworld is out there, just not accessible to the trio. In BBS, the worlds are in danger because of the unversed, but they're not as dangerous a threat as heartless (at least, on their own) where they seek out the hearts of worlds.

We don't necessarily know that it happened during or any point before the battle, but it does line up with that. We see it shortly before fighting Demyx if memory serves, and it is true that it could take place at any point. But what matters is that none of the Hollow Bastion Restoration Committee are stationed there, which leads to two probable scenarios,
A: This takes place DURING the battle some time following the explosion that drew The King out of the study room and had Sora and Co. follow him. This would also explain why Leon isn't there (he's also fighting in the battle) and why no one else is standing guard, there's a bigger threat outside and that takes priority over the study.

B: This takes place BEFORE the battle, and the security cam footage is deactivated by Xemnas to cover his tracks, as I would imagine knowing the password would grant access to the footage. From what I can tell, Xemnas doesn't just teleport into the room because it's a ritualistic habit (he likely did this as Terranort, due to Terra's memories, and thus wouldn't be able to teleport). He also mentions that it's been a long time to the armor, indicating that he used to go very frequently, but the recent activity in the area by Leon and co. halted his visits. We don't know WHAT he said to the armor, but I like to think he would go and complain to it, as it can't oppose him in any way due to being an inanimate object.

 

[ZeVaine]

Old Man Xehanort was definitely aware of the Princesses of heart existing, and whether through himself physically searching or using Vanitas, or maleficent, or any other method he might of concocted, he could easily traverse and spy on other worlds. I believe the princesses of light were stated as always being one his back-up plans, along with manipulating maleficent, should the Ven/Vanitas pure heart method fail. Wouldn't be much of a backup without knowing where the Princesses are - and there's plenty of time and choices of people who could have gathered that information for him. Hell, even the plot of DDD and Kh3 were just 2 more back-up plans, as that's been Xehanort's MO for as long as we've known him - "You are just one of many roads I might choose to take".

Dark Road also explained the time flows differently between worlds, so I think there's plenty of room for imagination of how Old Man Xehanort could've learned the names of all the princesses somewhere between before the events of BBS by the time Terra/Xehanort (or whatever version after this of Xehanort you prefer to use) would've started hijacking Ansems equipment to then first make the password.

 

[Face My Fears]

He's been a Keyblade master for decades by the time Birth by Sleep rolls around, and he would know of Alice, Jasmine and Belle from the fact that their respective worlds are likely somewhere in the lanes between, we just can't access them. KH 1 had the brilliant excuse for not having every Disney property represented because of the planetary apocalypse going on, and subsequent games don't really have such an explanation. Evidence for this comes from the presence of Merlin in Radiant Garden and not in whatever the Sword in the Stone world looks like, his presence suggests that his homeworld is out there, just not accessible to the trio. In BBS, the worlds are in danger because of the unversed, but they're not as dangerous a threat as heartless (at least, on their own) where they seek out the hearts of worlds.

We don't necessarily know that it happened during or any point before the battle, but it does line up with that. We see it shortly before fighting Demyx if memory serves, and it is true that it could take place at any point. But what matters is that none of the Hollow Bastion Restoration Committee are stationed there, which leads to two probable scenarios,
A: This takes place DURING the battle some time following the explosion that drew The King out of the study room and had Sora and Co. follow him. This would also explain why Leon isn't there (he's also fighting in the battle) and why no one else is standing guard, there's a bigger threat outside and that takes priority over the study.

B: This takes place BEFORE the battle, and the security cam footage is deactivated by Xemnas to cover his tracks, as I would imagine knowing the password would grant access to the footage. From what I can tell, Xemnas doesn't just teleport into the room because it's a ritualistic habit (he likely did this as Terranort, due to Terra's memories, and thus wouldn't be able to teleport). He also mentions that it's been a long time to the armor, indicating that he used to go very frequently, but the recent activity in the area by Leon and co. halted his visits. We don't know WHAT he said to the armor, but I like to think he would go and complain to it, as it can't oppose him in any way due to being an inanimate object.

Old Man Xehanort was definitely aware of the Princesses of heart existing, and whether through himself physically searching or using Vanitas, or maleficent, or any other method he might of concocted, he could easily traverse and spy on other worlds. I believe the princesses of light were stated as always being one his back-up plans, along with manipulating maleficent, should the Ven/Vanitas pure heart method fail. Wouldn't be much of a backup without knowing where the Princesses are - and there's plenty of time and choices of people who could have gathered that information for him. Hell, even the plot of DDD and Kh3 were just 2 more back-up plans, as that's been Xehanort's MO for as long as we've known him - "You are just one of many roads I might choose to take".

Dark Road also explained the time flows differently between worlds, so I think there's plenty of room for imagination of how Old Man Xehanort could've learned the names of all the princesses somewhere between before the events of BBS by the time Terra/Xehanort (or whatever version after this of Xehanort you prefer to use) would've started hijacking Ansems equipment to then first make the password.

Where did this assumption that Master Xehanort knew who all the Princesses of Heart were come from? Just because he's a master for decades doesn't mean he just knows who they are. The reason they were so hard to find is because there are endless worlds out there and on each world there's even more people. It wasn't made clear whether Terra-Xehanort knew that Kairi was a Princess of Heart, I think he just knew that she was "special" in some way.

Even if Terra-Xehanort had endless time, I doubt he would have figured out who the Princesses of Heart were and then do... nothing. He obviously was trying to assemble them for some reason, so if he knew 3 of them that Maleficent didn't (Alice, Jasmine and Belle) AND literally had one in his own world (Kairi), why didn't he just go kill Maleficent and take the other 3 and fulfill his plan? He would have had the nobodies (or almost had them all), and all the Princesses of Heart.

I seriously doubt that Terra-Xehanort or Master Xehanort knew who the 7 Princesses of Heart were and did nothing with that information except use their names as a password on a computer.

 

[Soldier]

Where did this assumption that Master Xehanort knew who all the Princesses of Heart were come from? Just because he's a master for decades doesn't mean he just knows who they are. The reason they were so hard to find is because there are endless worlds out there and on each world there's even more people. It wasn't made clear whether Terra-Xehanort knew that Kairi was a Princess of Heart, I think he just knew that she was "special" in some way.

Even if Terra-Xehanort had endless time, I doubt he would have figured out who the Princesses of Heart were and then do... nothing. He obviously was trying to assemble them for some reason, so if he knew 3 of them that Maleficent didn't (Alice, Jasmine and Belle) AND literally had one in his own world (Kairi), why didn't he just go kill Maleficent and take the other 3 and fulfill his plan? He would have had the nobodies (or almost had them all), and all the Princesses of Heart.

I seriously doubt that Terra-Xehanort or Master Xehanort knew who the 7 Princesses of Heart were and did nothing with that information except use their names as a password on a computer.

You forget that Maleficent was part of the plan from the get-go, it was Master Xehanort who sent Maleficent down the path towards her rise in strength prior to KH 1. He told her of other worlds, bits of the keyblade, his plan (he expressly told her to NOT harm Aqua) and most importantly, the princesses. His plan with the Ansem SoD route was to have Maleficent do all the heavy lifting with her planetary genocide in KH 1, then either eliminate her himself, or expect someone else or the heartless to do it. This was ONE method to get to Kingdom Hearts, but well, we all know how well that ended for Xehanort's heartless.

 

[ZeVaine]

I do understand there's a bit of oddness in the sense that if Xehanort already knew their names during the time between BBS and KH1, why did Maleficent then take so long to actually go and kidnap them - right up until it was Kh1? It's not hard to think of how he could use various resources to get the names and locations, but then why not take them right away, or tell maleficent to get them earlier?

I can think of quite a few ways that Xehanort could've learned the identities of the the remaining POH between BBS and KH1, but I can't think of a good reason why acquiring that knowledge early enough for everything else to make sense too, and then having maleficent wait so long to actually go and actually capture them.

Unless it's really the case he knew the names (whether it be from visiting them all as a child, as Dark Road seems to potentially be hinting), and maybe even the worlds they came from, but that it took all those years for Maleficent to actually scour the theoretically endless void to physically find them, and also find those willing to take darkness within them to help her find the POH once there. When you look at it that way, it kind of makes sense?

Also, are we to believe the SoD/Xemnas split happened just a year after BBS ended? That's supposedly when Maleficent took over Hollow Bastion. Ansem SoD was doing time travel and searching around I guess on his own, and Xemnas was doing the whole org 13 thing, so for Xehanort to have left that clue and set the password to the 7 POH, he would've had to have learned it before that one year was up. Honestly, the Dark Road connection might be the best explanation, but it also makes the story make less sense if he already had knowledge of the POH for so goddamn long.

 

[Chie]

He may have simply not had in mind years of future planning at that time. The princesses of heart might have been of interest to him but not necessarily part of a plan, until his actions in BBS fail. Then he spends quite some time coming up with a bigger plan putting together what he knew before, and what he learns in his experiments.

I know Maleficent knowing about the princesses ends up being part of the plan, but it might not have begun as such, and I wouldn't put it past Xehanort to over-exaggerate how much of a mastermind he was. Also, "In my eagerness, I had lost sight of the correct way to achieve my goal. I acted rashly. I can admit that now." -Xehanort on the events of BBS

Or maybe to put it even simpler, for considering the time of BBS, he knew he wanted to go get the princesses, but his number 1 priority was getting a new body before he dies of old age, so he put the other stuff off until later.

For considering the time between BBS and KH1, he spent quite some time recovering (even if Xigbar supposes the amnesia was fake), and probably found the experiments both interesting and necessary for what his plans eventually became. Then for Ansem SoD... he didn't even have a body until he used Riku's, so maybe couldn't have directly intervened.

 

[WaltK]

I’d still like to know what differentiates the time travel that was used for Timeless River from that used by Xehanort.

 

[Soldier]

I’d still like to know what differentiates the time travel that was used for Timeless River from that used by Xehanort.

Timeless River targeted a specific point in a specific world's history, and was essentially a pathway through both time to that specific spot and the general area around it.
What Xehanort did was target specific POINTS in time that there was another version of him (which due to his constant planning, practically guaranteed it) and travel to those specific points, and remembered all of it by "etching the memories onto his heart" however you do that. According to Young Xehanort, you'd typically forget those instances, but Merlin's door method allows the visitors to that time to remember them.

 

[Soldier]

I do understand there's a bit of oddness in the sense that if Xehanort already knew their names during the time between BBS and KH1, why did Maleficent then take so long to actually go and kidnap them - right up until it was Kh1? It's not hard to think of how he could use various resources to get the names and locations, but then why not take them right away, or tell maleficent to get them earlier?

I can think of quite a few ways that Xehanort could've learned the identities of the the remaining POH between BBS and KH1, but I can't think of a good reason why acquiring that knowledge early enough for everything else to make sense too, and then having maleficent wait so long to actually go and actually capture them.

Unless it's really the case he knew the names (whether it be from visiting them all as a child, as Dark Road seems to potentially be hinting), and maybe even the worlds they came from, but that it took all those years for Maleficent to actually scour the theoretically endless void to physically find them, and also find those willing to take darkness within them to help her find the POH once there. When you look at it that way, it kind of makes sense?

Also, are we to believe the SoD/Xemnas split happened just a year after BBS ended? That's supposedly when Maleficent took over Hollow Bastion. Ansem SoD was doing time travel and searching around I guess on his own, and Xemnas was doing the whole org 13 thing, so for Xehanort to have left that clue and set the password to the 7 POH, he would've had to have learned it before that one year was up. Honestly, the Dark Road connection might be the best explanation, but it also makes the story make less sense if he already had knowledge of the POH for so goddamn long.

Consider this, we know very little about what happens in the 10 year gap between BBS and KH1. All we do know is that the ending cutscene that features young Kairi in BBS was when Maleficent raided Radiant Garden, and of course the knowledge that the latter takes over the castle and corrupts it in her own image. It's also hard to get a specific temporal point for this because the worlds seem to operate on their own timezones for the most part, save for some (Traverse Town is a good example; Donald and Goofy witness the star corresponding to Destiny Island going out a few moments after the Island's destruction, suggesting a relatively close timeframe). For all we know, she could have taken Aurora with her during this assault, or did the assault first, so unless we have a game explicitly depicting the events of the 10 year gap, we can't really know.

 

[Chie]

I’d still like to know what differentiates the time travel that was used for Timeless River from that used by Xehanort.

At this point I suspect that "one is used by a Disney character who comes from a pre-existing story" is actually the in-story reason.