KH Novel Translations - Official Thread

[Kiwise]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Well, have you read a translation of Countdown to Castle Oblivion before? (I will type it up sometime myself). Zexion mentions to Lexeaus how he thinks Xemnas has ulterior motives for the castle. He pretty much insinuates that the castle was built to get the upstart newcomers destroyed (then Lexeaus says, 'then why did he go to all the trouble of recruiting them?', and Zexion says he doesn't know). So maybe it was some bigger part of Xemnas' plot that even Zexion didn't know; maybe he just caught wind of the whole 'someone's gunna die' part but never found out he was one of them... why would he need to die? I dunno. Might be an old grudge--I remember reading in an ansem report that it was Ienzo who pushed whatever turned them all into nobodies... but that's pretty petty for a guy who has no feelings anyway.

Yeah, that sounds familiar. I think I've read that. Sounds strange to me. Is that the same one that had Marluxia and Larxene talking and Larxene says something like "I don't want my heart back because it's too painful"? Marluxia didn't seem to have anything against Xemnas at that time.... So... Interesting. =D

Ienzo was the one who encouraged DiZ to build the lab. ["Spurred on by my youngest apprentice, Ienzo, I constructed a massive laboratory in the basement of my castle."] I can't see Xemnas wanting revenge on Zexion for that.

What was he a hypocrite for? (Not being snarky: I kinda lost the argument amidst all the quotey things and thought people were saying he was being a hypocrite for not looking forward to death... can you refresh me?)

Yeah, I got a little lost, too. I think this was it:

Kiwise: Maybe he was affected somehow? We only saw him there, in CoM, where he couldn't show weakness, and where he wasn't the main character yet. [Another Report has this.] He refuses to answer Roxas when he asks about it. So maybe he was affected. We wouldn't know.

*TwilightNight*: First paragraph, we wouldn't know. But he's being a hypocrite. If he really did go by that line, and it hurt him to see Nobodies go, and he would soon follow that fate, I would think he would have gotten rid of them in a much cleaner method, instead of mercilessly the way it was done.

No, I wonder if it was something Roxas-related though. Same with the wound. Maybe Saix didn't mean a physical wound, but Axel didn't understand that at the time.

So... Then Saïx is like a puppy? ._.

 

[Organization_42]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Well, puppy might be too strong of a word, lol. Idk what was going on there...

 

[Goldpanner]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Yeah, that sounds familiar. I think I've read that. Sounds strange to me. Is that the same one that had Marluxia and Larxene talking and Larxene says something like "I don't want my heart back because it's too painful"? Marluxia didn't seem to have anything against Xemnas at that time.... So... Interesting. =D

She says something like 'but having a heart is pretty heavy/painful. But now it's pretty fun/easy!" >_>
Arrgh now I'm getting urges to translate it. Must finish frankenstein essay!! Whyyy

Ienzo was the one who encouraged DiZ to build the lab. ["Spurred on by my youngest apprentice, Ienzo, I constructed a massive laboratory in the basement of my castle."] I can't see Xemnas wanting revenge on Zexion for that.

Oh, ok. Yeah that makes sense.

So... Then Saïx is like a puppy? ._.

I always thought how cruel it was that Sora was looking for his best friends and he went to the end of the world and back for them and he got them, when Axel was just the same and he didn't. And now it's making me think it's even worse, with Saix being ordered to do to Axel what Axel was ordered to do to Roxas, and maybe Saix didn't want to do it either but he was better at following orders and it's all parallel and asdf;lkj

 

[Kiwise]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

She says something like 'but having a heart is pretty heavy/painful. But now it's pretty fun/easy!" >_>
Arrgh now I'm getting urges to translate it. Must finish frankenstein essay!! Whyyy

D= Take your time, we don't want you to fail a class or something.

I always thought how cruel it was that Sora was looking for his best friends and he went to the end of the world and back for them and he got them, when Axel was just the same and he didn't. And now it's making me think it's even worse, with Saix being ordered to do to Axel what Axel was ordered to do to Roxas, and maybe Saix didn't want to do it either but he was better at following orders and it's all parallel and asdf;lkj

Oh, wow. XD I never thought of that. That's interesting. I wish we knew more about Saïx. I'm not sure what to think of him anymore. I thought he was a sadistic bastard with a grudge against Axel. Now, I dunno.

Well, puppy might be too strong of a word, lol. Idk what was going on there...

Well... Yeah. I was kinda thinking, 'cause puppies are magical and they know when people are upset. I mean, all the IRL puppies I've ever met can. So... Saïx was like that... Sort of... Not really... Y'know? Yeah, I think it made more sense in my head.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Ah, but that line is actually pretty interesting, mainly because it never existed originally. In the GBA version, it translates to Axel saying that he thought saving Sora and Riku was more interesting than letting Zexion live. Even in the translations of Jap Re:CoM, I could swear that it came out to him saying something about how he was the last one standing, or something like that.

My point? I think this whole "Zexion knows too much" deal was a very recent development, and I'll bet they'll give Axel a motive in "Days." I don't know, it just strikes me as suspicious.

o.o

I guess that kind of just, proves the point a bit more.

I know! DX That's why I don't get it. Seems like everything would've worked out just fine if Zexion hadn't been killed in CoM, maybe even better since Axel managed to save someone. Did he honestly think Xemnas wouldn't get it or something? So... I figure either Axel was carrying the idiot ball when that happened, or there's something else they haven't (come up with?) told us yet. Stuff from Days seems to say that Saïx had something to do with the whole thing, so... I dunno, maybe Axel was under orders to get rid of all the "traitors" in Castle Oblivion? So, Zexion had to die because Saïx said so? That's pretty much the theory I've held to since... Days was announced. But after reading this stuff, I guess I have to rethink it. I'm think I'm getting offtopic-er now, though.

Xemnas didn't like Vexen either? I didn't know that. That's awesome. XD Starting to sound like no one liked Vexen. Poor guy.

I don't get it either, as any time I think of Zexion, I think of many paths that Axel could've taken, even if he was maybe helping Riku [let's go for that,though then that would make him the traitor] he is clever enough to talk to people. And I'm sure Zexion would be willing to listen considering he didn't have much of a choice with his lack of strength. I wish Nomura just kind of planned things ahead sometimes. KH has many plot holes as it is, and killing members just for killing them, and let one survive because of favoritism is not exactly my sight to see when concerning a series. I don't like that kind of bias.

And I meant Zexion didn't like Vexen, not Xemnas. I don't know about him o.o.

Heh. I try to give Axel the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he had an acceptable reason to kill Zexion, maybe they can come up with a good excuse for why his personality did a 180. I doubt it, but I'm willing to wait and see. On the other hand, maybe he didn't, they won't explain it, they don't care, and they expect us not to care either. ._. Just have to wait and see, I guess.

I feel sorry for Axel, but I also accept that he's an ass who mostly deserved what he got. And I'm willing to accept that he's also a big teddy bear when he's with his small group of friends.

Yes, wait and see, it seems. That's all we can do. There's some CoM novels out there, so I don't know if they can answer it.

I also believe that he did deserve what he got, sad sympathy aside. People felt bad for him, but maybe that's part of the reason why I didn't blink when he died. My thoughts in that part were, "Karma, besh!", as heartless as it sounds. But he gets a present either way by maybe coming back in KH3 just to whore him out even more until he runs dry >.>. It wouldn't surprise me that the others don't appear, only his highness himself.

I don't think they asked for a show, either, just that they were expecting one. They'd known him for a while before this. They had an idea of how he'd act. He couldn't be out-of-character in their eyes because then he'd look suspicious, so he had to do whatever they were expecting. If that was to be a cruel, merciless jerkass, so be it.

But really, what were they expecting? From what I've seen in Minutes to Castle Oblivion, Axel is technically, to Larxene, the same way: a man who doesn't look like he can perform merciless killing [keyword - look. Or the creators try to make him look now]. If they knew that he would be willing to put up a show, and cruelly kill someone the way he did, then Larxene wouldn't have said that she didn't know if he had the guts to kill a higher member. He didn't need some act, really, just as long as he killed Vexen, he was in the clear. But as said, Vexen is kind of the understandable one. Yet, there are other methods to succeed, and "pretend" that he finds it all amusing without having to implode the old man the way he did. It was harsh.

I'm not sure if he could have done that either. I don't know if I'm remembering the scene (from Re:CoM) correctly, but Axel was standing behind Sora and Vexen and Sora was in the way, wasn't he? Axel couldn't miss his target, because then he might've hit Sora or missed entirely. So it's safer to aim for the center of mass than the head.

Yet, in the original CoM, he stabbed Vexen with his spiky chakrams directly, I think, by popping behind him, and giving one slash, pausing, then deliver the second that made him disappear. Or something of the sort. I don't even know which death is better for Vexen.

Were they in his way? I don't think so....

I have no idea what to say about Zexion. Since we don't know why he had to die in the first place, I couldn't say if was justified or not. Axel's a good actor, it might've have genuine, it might not have. I don't think we can really say yet.

I suppose...

So... Even if he was a nice guy at heart, he was an ass to everyone he wasn't close to. So pretty much everyone besides Roxas (and I guess Xion). Sounds about right to me. Maybe it's not that Roxas changed his personality that much, Roxas just managed to make friends with him, so that's the side of him we get to see.

It still isn't exactly the best thing to hear, really, though I do understand the part where he's only friendly to those close to him, and it's what we get to see. I just don't like that they are writing him off as this big ball of warmth and cuddles all the time as if his actions didn't contradict that in itself.

They might. Not the pure, innocent, helps-everyone, friendly-neighborhood-boy-scout good guy Disney likes, but a different kind of good guy ("guy-on-the-side-of-good" is maybe more what I mean) might. It depends.

But that's the thing. They are making him like that, especially from the Novels even more. He's the reason why even Goofy survived, because he gave him the potion >.>.

Sure, yeah. Except for those evil traitors. Y'know? Sure, makes him a hypocrite, but it makes sense to me that he might end up thinking something like that.

I just took it as a way of coping, I suppose. He doesn't associate Dusks and those guys he killed a long ago. They aren't the same to him. I doubt he was thinking of them at all at the time. Dusks are innocent, they didn't do anything to him or anyone else. Those guys he killed deserved it because they were evil traitors. The two are not the same thing or connected in any way. But that part of the sentence wasn't the part that mattered, in any case, he was really just thinking of his own future at the time, not about the Dusks specifically. They were just the example he used, it seems to me. I fully agree with goldpanner's Theory 2. Except I do think he's a hypocrite in some ways.

It's just a personal pet peeve of mine: I dislike it when people try to dismiss Nobodies (the lesser ones, I have different pet peeves regarding the Organization) as dumb animals, or worse, as automatically evil monsters. They're not either.

Nevertheless, the line makes it appear as this went for all Nobodies, that he feels it isn't good to see them destroyed, and to be honest, his actions doesn't really make him better than everyone else in that castle considering he had a hand in killing "things like him". The fact that he doesn't even know if he betrayed the Organization, and if he was a traitor, makes him more of a ass because then that doesn't justify his own cruelty. He's not innocent in this matter, and if that's the train of thinking he took, then he deserves to die as well along with the rest of them. It seems to me that he begins thinking around those words, and it reminded him about his own future. But the point is still there. The fact that he actually thinks that watching them be destroyed is not good, then that doesn't really fit with what he's done in the past. Or at least the methods he used if he really did feel for them. No good guy deep inside will ever go that far if he had any morals. I mean, Zexion died a slow death that made me cringe every time I watch it.

Well, I never heard anyone putting down the lower Nobodies o.o. But I guess I understand where you are coming from.

Yeah. Maybe they'll get around to explaining it in Days. I don't have much hope for it, but I can dream.

I don't have that much hope for Days either in many ways, but we just have to wait until May 30th xD.

I like him, too, but I think it's stupid to try and say he's the shining example of all that is right and good and cuddly. (Disclaimer: I exaggerate. I don't think anyone really says that.) He's done good and bad, and there's nothing really wrong with that. That just makes him all the more interesting and complex. Except when they screw it up, then it's just a poor job at character development.

Exactly. I just don't like the sudden jump that they took from ass, to wuss, let us say, simply to present him as a good guy because they wanted him to appear in the future games. I just hate the way they excluded on character and make him special, when I would think that any character in CoM could have just as easily been more complex and interesting, with hidden potential if actually given the chance.

I agree. Totally agree. You've put it beautifully.

=D

Reminds me of the Wolverine Effect. ._. Wolverine from X-Men ended up being the main character in the movies, while they keep introducing a hella lot of other characters, and ignored the ones they already had (or just killed them). Wolverine wasn't nearly as important in the original comics as he ended up being in the movies (until they started putting his picture on the front of issues he wasn't even in).

That's a nice comparison, I never thought of it like that. I would say PotC as well, but other than whoring Captain Jack Sparrow, in the actual movies, they go out of their way of developing and giving everyone equal screen time, to even not making Sparrow appear all that much. Which is good writing. KH...meh >.>. Bias through and through. And oh, let's add another character to make 14th, and focus on her a lot instead of the established ones [especially if the game is short, from what was said]. I swear, I don't even...

This is why I'm afraid to put any faith in Days. DX I like Axel. I wouldn't mind hearing a little about him. But I also like the others, and they won't get anything. Maybe Demyx. Maybe.

Maybe Demyx. But all I think is that they will get missions with Roxas, and their personalities will be more explored, but then that's it. That's what I see as the pattern from the scans, and the CoM members are barely present, and will get anything. Which kind of pisses me off, but there's nothing I can do except not buy it.

Yes. Yes he is. It's depressing.

T-T

 

[PryoSpark]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

In the manga, Marluxia, Larxene and Axel had these big computer screens with security cameras that they used to monitor Sora. Maybe Axel saw him on one of those?

Did you notice that the name on the monitors reads Nomura? I thought it was funny how they incorporated him in like that.

 

[firemage8]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

. Stuff from Days seems to say that Saïx had something to do with the whole thing, so... I dunno, maybe Axel was under orders to get rid of all the "traitors" in Castle Oblivion? So, Zexion had to die because Saïx said so? That's pretty much the theory I've held to since... Days was announced. But after reading this stuff, I guess I have to rethink it. I'm think I'm getting offtopic-er now, though.

Bingo you hit the nail on the jackpot. That was my theory all long, (but not Saix being the one) and it was hinted in the orignal COM from the beginning. Especially when Axel tells Marluxia that all In the name of the Organization all traitors will be executed. Oringal not the dub. I even seen some trailers with Saix saying that he wanted Axel to go to CO to eliminate a traitor. Then another scene Axel tells Roxas that he has to go to Castle Oblivion. So that bit of information solves that he was indeed for Xenmas's organization and not a traitor as some people say he was. Different opionons, but now proof.

There could be another possibility of why Lexaeus, Vexen, and Zexion had to die. This actually came to me, by thinking about the thrones. Lexaesus, Vexen, and Zexion were the lowest nobodies on the totem pole due to the throne heights. So it seems that Xenmas thought of executing them because they weren't progressing like they were. Perhaps that is why he sent them to Castle Oblivion knowing that the rebels Marluxia, Axel and Larxene would get rid of their existance. Hoping they would kill each other, since we all know that Marluxia hates Vexen.

 

[Avens]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

See, I still have a very negative view of Saix, despite the smile. For the 'wound' scene, Saix is making a jibe about Roxas leaving, and thus Axel is 'wounded' by the loss. Axel denies feeling hurt over Roxas.

The smile, I think, has to do with Saix and Axel conspiring during Days--but Axel's friendship with Roxas got in the way of their plans. So when Axel asks 'Have you even thought that maybe I can't erase Roxas?', Saix remembers back to day one, not even a week ago, where he pretty much said the same thing. Axel says it's ok since he's awesome, and Saix smiles because obviously, Axel can't think about anything but Roxas, and has no chance.
In fact, this is Saix's only comment at Axel's death:
Saix: It doesn't matter. All he got was nothingness. Axel couldn't stand living without a heart, and was destroyed by getting close to one. He was weak.

Bingo you hit the nail on the jackpot. That was my theory all long, (but not Saix being the one) and it was hinted in the orignal COM from the beginning. Especially when Axel tells Marluxia that all In the name of the Organization all traitors will be executed. Oringal not the dub. I even seen some trailers with Saix saying that he wanted Axel to go to CO to eliminate a traitor. Then another scene Axel tells Roxas that he has to go to Castle Oblivion. So that bit of information solves that he was indeed for Xenmas's organization and not a traitor as some people say he was. Different opionons, but now proof.

And yet directly after Saïx says to go, Axel questions if the order ‘is really from Xemnas,’ and ‘Saïx’s expression deepens.’ So I don’t think that’s definitive; Axel had orders, sure, but they were Saïx’s orders.

There could be another possibility of why Lexaeus, Vexen, and Zexion had to die. This actually came to me, by thinking about the thrones. Lexaesus, Vexen, and Zexion were the lowest nobodies on the totem pole due to the throne heights. So it seems that Xenmas thought of executing them because they weren't progressing like they were. Perhaps that is why he sent them to Castle Oblivion knowing that the rebels Marluxia, Axel and Larxene would get rid of their existance. Hoping they would kill each other, since we all know that Marluxia hates Vexen.

That’s not a bad idea. Nomura says that chair height is by personal preference, but we haven’t actually seen any indication of it. However, that still doesn’t explain why Axel would go out of his way to kill Zexion, unless he was privy to the plan.

 

[Kiwise]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

I don't get it either, as any time I think of Zexion, I think of many paths that Axel could've taken, even if he was maybe helping Riku [let's go for that,though then that would make him the traitor] he is clever enough to talk to people. And I'm sure Zexion would be willing to listen considering he didn't have much of a choice with his lack of strength. I wish Nomura just kind of planned things ahead sometimes. KH has many plot holes as it is, and killing members just for killing them, and let one survive because of favoritism is not exactly my sight to see when concerning a series. I don't like that kind of bias.

And I meant Zexion didn't like Vexen, not Xemnas. I don't know about him o.o.

I don't think anyone does, if they realize it's there. Even though Nomura doesn't seem to think anything ahead, I can think of some ways he could still tie things together that would at least be logical. I know I'll be disappointed when it turns out they decided to be lazy and they give a half-assed excuse for things, if any at all.

Oh, that's different. XD I wonder if anyone was surprised to hear Vexen was a traitor... Or any of the others, for that matter... Hmm.

Yes, wait and see, it seems. That's all we can do. There's some CoM novels out there, so I don't know if they can answer it.

I also believe that he did deserve what he got, sad sympathy aside. People felt bad for him, but maybe that's part of the reason why I didn't blink when he died. My thoughts in that part were, "Karma, besh!", as heartless as it sounds. But he gets a present either way by maybe coming back in KH3 just to whore him out even more until he runs dry >.>. It wouldn't surprise me that the others don't appear, only his highness himself.

When I first saw the scene, I mostly felt bad that I was laughing. Sora: "Oh my god, you're dying! D:" Axel: "Duh." Through the whole scene, I kept expecting Sora to cast Cure or Fire or something. I didn't think he was actually going to let him die, since there were jokes and everything... When he finally did, I was too shocked to really respond. I did cry, though. ._.

B-but... Xemnas also... The same thing... But they said... Noooo!

But really, what were they expecting? From what I've seen in Minutes to Castle Oblivion, Axel is technically, to Larxene, the same way: a man who doesn't look like he can perform merciless killing [keyword - look. Or the creators try to make him look now]. If they knew that he would be willing to put up a show, and cruelly kill someone the way he did, then Larxene wouldn't have said that she didn't know if he had the guts to kill a higher member. He didn't need some act, really, just as long as he killed Vexen, he was in the clear. But as said, Vexen is kind of the understandable one. Yet, there are other methods to succeed, and "pretend" that he finds it all amusing without having to implode the old man the way he did. It was harsh.

Well... I think very few people "look" like they could kill a guy at all. Xemnas, maybe. Saïx, maybe. Xaldin, maybe. Very few. I don't think what Larxene said really means much, there. I suppose they were expecting him to act like he normally does... Whatever they think that is. He might not have needed an act, no, but it cemented the idea that he was on their side, willing to work for their cause, which was pretty much the point. If he had looked like he'd had second thoughts or been upset, they might not have trusted him as readily. It wasn't worth the risk, he needed them to trust him immediately. So whether he was really amused or not, it was probably better to act as such, because that would show them he was fully on their side and had no regrets.

Yet, in the original CoM, he stabbed Vexen with his spiky chakrams directly, I think, by popping behind him, and giving one slash, pausing, then deliver the second that made him disappear. Or something of the sort. I don't even know which death is better for Vexen.

Mm... Haven't played the original CoM. (Now I'm kind of picturing what he did in the manga.) Not sure what to say about that. He might've been able to headshot, but... I don't think Disney would like that. ._.

It still isn't exactly the best thing to hear, really, though I do understand the part where he's only friendly to those close to him, and it's what we get to see. I just don't like that they are writing him off as this big ball of warmth and cuddles all the time as if his actions didn't contradict that in itself.

Who's doing the writing off, the creators or the fans?

But that's the thing. They are making him like that, especially from the Novels even more. He's the reason why even Goofy survived, because he gave him the potion >.>.

You think so? I don't really see that. I see them showing us his teddy bear side practically exclusively, and I see them trying to tell us that he's really a good guy all along, but I don't see them trying to say he's a knight in shining armor.

Nevertheless, the line makes it appear as this went for all Nobodies, that he feels it isn't good to see them destroyed, and to be honest, his actions doesn't really make him better than everyone else in that castle considering he had a hand in killing "things like him". The fact that he doesn't even know if he betrayed the Organization, and if he was a traitor, makes him more of a ass because then that doesn't justify his own cruelty. He's not innocent in this matter, and if that's the train of thinking he took, then he deserves to die as well along with the rest of them. It seems to me that he begins thinking around those words, and it reminded him about his own future. But the point is still there. The fact that he actually thinks that watching them be destroyed is not good, then that doesn't really fit with what he's done in the past. Or at least the methods he used if he really did feel for them. No good guy deep inside will ever go that far if he had any morals. I mean, Zexion died a slow death that made me cringe every time I watch it.

Well, I never heard anyone putting down the lower Nobodies o.o. But I guess I understand where you are coming from.

The line was really vague about that, I think. It's possible he was referring to all Nobodies, but I think it's unlikely he was honestly thinking of Zexion and Vexen at the time, he probably didn't realize he was contradicting his past actions. Simple mistake. I don't know if he thinks he's innocent. I'm sure he'd like to think so, but I don't know if he really does. I get what you're saying, it's contradictory, but it's not like it's completely unprecedented. I'd expect him to have issues.

Really? I see it all the time. It bugs me.

I don't have that much hope for Days either in many ways, but we just have to wait until May 30th xD.

I think I might wait longer. ;_; If I can hold out that long. Doubt it.

Exactly. I just don't like the sudden jump that they took from ass, to wuss, let us say, simply to present him as a good guy because they wanted him to appear in the future games. I just hate the way they excluded on character and make him special, when I would think that any character in CoM could have just as easily been more complex and interesting, with hidden potential if actually given the chance.

It could have been any of them, sure. But probably they would've gone through the same derailment for the same reasons. Say Larxene got out instead. She probably would've been turned into either a damsel in distress or a pretty, perfect princess. Or both. But, y'know, they still could have thought out what they'll do for him better, or they could have presented it differently.

That's a nice comparison, I never thought of it like that. I would say PotC as well, but other than whoring Captain Jack Sparrow, in the actual movies, they go out of their way of developing and giving everyone equal screen time, to even not making Sparrow appear all that much. Which is good writing. KH...meh >.>. Bias through and through. And oh, let's add another character to make 14th, and focus on her a lot instead of the established ones [especially if the game is short, from what was said]. I swear, I don't even...

DX Pretty much, yeah. Wait, I thought he said that the game is short if you just rush through the story, but there's extra stuff to do... Nevermind, that probably just means more stupid minigames.

Maybe Demyx. But all I think is that they will get missions with Roxas, and their personalities will be more explored, but then that's it. That's what I see as the pattern from the scans, and the CoM members are barely present, and will get anything. Which kind of pisses me off, but there's nothing I can do except not buy it.

Honestly, if they explore their personalities at all, I'll be squealing like a little fangirl, even if it's just on missions with them. I sort of doubt they'll give us that much. "Blah, blah, exposition." "Blah, blah, holy Infodump Batman, a plot point!" "Blah blah, press B to jump." "Blah, blah, I'm evil, mwuhaha!" So I'll take whatever I can get.

Bingo you hit the nail on the jackpot. That was my theory all long, (but not Saix being the one) and it was hinted in the orignal COM from the beginning. Especially when Axel tells Marluxia that all In the name of the Organization all traitors will be executed. Oringal not the dub. I even seen some trailers with Saix saying that he wanted Axel to go to CO to eliminate a traitor. Then another scene Axel tells Roxas that he has to go to Castle Oblivion. So that bit of information solves that he was indeed for Xenmas's organization and not a traitor as some people say he was. Different opionons, but now proof.

Yeah, the trailers you're talking about were what gave me the idea. But I agree with Avens, I think it's more likely to be Saïx behind it than Xemnas, because Saïx hesitated in the one thing, and I don't know why they'd show that unless they are trying to make him look suspicious. But Saïx seemed to loyal so Xemnas in KH2, I don't think he'd turn "traitor" for power or whatever. It seems more likely to me he misinterpreted his orders or something. XP But that's just me, trying to make villains somehow not the bad guys.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

I don't think anyone does, if they realize it's there. Even though Nomura doesn't seem to think anything ahead, I can think of some ways he could still tie things together that would at least be logical. I know I'll be disappointed when it turns out they decided to be lazy and they give a half-assed excuse for things, if any at all.

Oh, that's different. XD I wonder if anyone was surprised to hear Vexen was a traitor... Or any of the others, for that matter... Hmm.

Well, I don't know. I feel some things in KH have already been a bit half-assed, and by tying these things together, it leaves some small plotholes in between. Which aren't a big deal, but are there. I just wish that Xion wasn't added in out of the blue. I don't know how they are going to explain how no one basically cares about her once she disappears off to wherever she will go, even though they did in the game >.>. Best cop out: memory wipe. Or else, it doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it. I've shrugged off things before, but this one takes the cake.

And it depends if he was even labeled by Axel a traitor. I would think he just said that Sora destroyed them all, and what not, and he's [suspiciously] the sole survivor. I wonder if he actually thought they would be that stupid...

When I first saw the scene, I mostly felt bad that I was laughing. Sora: "Oh my god, you're dying! D:" Axel: "Duh." Through the whole scene, I kept expecting Sora to cast Cure or Fire or something. I didn't think he was actually going to let him die, since there were jokes and everything... When he finally did, I was too shocked to really respond. I did cry, though. ._.

B-but... Xemnas also... The same thing... But they said... Noooo!

I was blank, for the most part. The whole Roxas thing, which made me widen my eyes for a second, and the cheesiness of it all just made me raise my eyebrows more than anything. Especially as he took so long to fade. I don't know, I guess it just wasn't my cup of tea. He deserved it in my mind. And the sacrifice, when he gave his life to a bunch of Dusks, could have been better. I expected something greater to go out in style.

I think we can really put on the line that the other members, minus royal Axel, would not appear D:. I'm definitely not putting any hopes into it, anyway.

Well... I think very few people "look" like they could kill a guy at all. Xemnas, maybe. Saïx, maybe. Xaldin, maybe. Very few. I don't think what Larxene said really means much, there. I suppose they were expecting him to act like he normally does... Whatever they think that is. He might not have needed an act, no, but it cemented the idea that he was on their side, willing to work for their cause, which was pretty much the point. If he had looked like he'd had second thoughts or been upset, they might not have trusted him as readily. It wasn't worth the risk, he needed them to trust him immediately. So whether he was really amused or not, it was probably better to act as such, because that would show them he was fully on their side and had no regrets.

You can say he felt he had to put such a act, but it also appears that it isn't one. I wouldn't be surprised if he was truthfully amused, to be honest. To me, he seemed to be enjoying it every time I look at his scenes. And the whole Zexion attitude kind of debunks it a little. As I have stated, however, Vexen is understandable in certain terms, there could've just been a better way to handle it then killing him the way he did. I don't think it needs to be that cruel to get the point across. As long as he showed that he did not care, and was willing to destroy a higher up, was what mattered, I would think. That's what they were looking for.

We can't exactly know. But his expressions, or anything else, wasn't necessary.

Mm... Haven't played the original CoM. (Now I'm kind of picturing what he did in the manga.) Not sure what to say about that. He might've been able to headshot, but... I don't think Disney would like that. ._.

The manga kept close to the original, except they had Axel do one slice, instead of two while Vexen was still alive for those short moments to feel that very good. I mean, I don't like the guy all that much, but I don't think he deserved something that gruesome.

Who's doing the writing off, the creators or the fans?

I would think the creators. Or Nomura. They would be the ones working on the Novels.

You think so? I don't really see that. I see them showing us his teddy bear side practically exclusively, and I see them trying to tell us that he's really a good guy all along, but I don't see them trying to say he's a knight in shining armor.

I understand. But like before, a good guy all along wouldn't morally do what he did on those, while Nobodies, people. And his reaction to it all as well. It's like saying to look at, let's say, some ass, that laughed and enjoyed his killings, only to then turn around and say, "Hey, he's a good guy! =D He was only lost in that moment about what to do and all."

The line was really vague about that, I think. It's possible he was referring to all Nobodies, but I think it's unlikely he was honestly thinking of Zexion and Vexen at the time, he probably didn't realize he was contradicting his past actions. Simple mistake. I don't know if he thinks he's innocent. I'm sure he'd like to think so, but I don't know if he really does. I get what you're saying, it's contradictory, but it's not like it's completely unprecedented. I'd expect him to have issues.

Really? I see it all the time. It bugs me.

Translations really depend on the wording for the most part, which is why some translators do things differently than others, so you can never tell The thing, is whether it was truly a mistake? It appeared like he had thought that all along with the way he kind of used it as past tense. For example, "I always felt this *insert certain way*".

And yeah, I never heard anybody complain about them in that matter.

I think I might wait longer. ;_; If I can hold out that long. Doubt it.

I'm willing to hold on. I'm not too excited anymore after the whole...yeah. I, for one, don't care who Xion is. Anymore. Second, the Organization members won't probably get anything as we had expected when we heard the game announced. And third, the only thing to look forward to is the Multiplayer.

Otherwise, BBS =P.

It could have been any of them, sure. But probably they would've gone through the same derailment for the same reasons. Say Larxene got out instead. She probably would've been turned into either a damsel in distress or a pretty, perfect princess. Or both. But, y'know, they still could have thought out what they'll do for him better, or they could have presented it differently.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Dx Don't put such horrendous things in such a post T-T. As a Larxene fan, it kills xD. I like how she is different than the rest. In fact, what you just said wouldn't be derailment. Just complete character butchering by the same people who created her. It wouldn't be Larxene, and I doubt they are that lazy. If they do things right, she would still be the bitch we all know, and to me, love, but have a softer side. It wouldn't come out of left field either. When she was dying, I think that's when her true colors came out. Either that, or the Japanese VA pulls at heart strings really well. They can work from that, and her line in the Novel. I find developing her character very interesting to explore. She can be incredibly complex if given the opportunity.

But, Axel was, kind of just telling us that he's nice now. And he wasn't really that asshole we saw way back in CoM. As I said, I accept it. There's nothing much to be done, even if it feels contrived and a sort of convenience. That's the path they've taken, and will continue to do so. It's just...how it was reached just for the sake of keeping him there.

DX Pretty much, yeah. Wait, I thought he said that the game is short if you just rush through the story, but there's extra stuff to do... Nevermind, that probably just means more stupid minigames.

Well, exactly. What are the extra stuff? I mean, he basically said that the game is short, but you can make it last longer by doing such and such. Which yes, sound more like side games. This means less screen time for the Org. members.

Honestly, if they explore their personalities at all, I'll be squealing like a little fangirl, even if it's just on missions with them. I sort of doubt they'll give us that much. "Blah, blah, exposition." "Blah, blah, holy Infodump Batman, a plot point!" "Blah blah, press B to jump." "Blah, blah, I'm evil, mwuhaha!" So I'll take whatever I can get.

It seems we do have to take whatever we can get D:. And I was so looking forward to see them constantly in my screen.

Yeah, the trailers you're talking about were what gave me the idea. But I agree with Avens, I think it's more likely to be Saïx behind it than Xemnas, because Saïx hesitated in the one thing, and I don't know why they'd show that unless they are trying to make him look suspicious. But Saïx seemed to loyal so Xemnas in KH2, I don't think he'd turn "traitor" for power or whatever. It seems more likely to me he misinterpreted his orders or something. XP But that's just me, trying to make villains somehow not the bad guys.

To add to this, I don't really think Saïx is going against Xemnas, per se. Especially if he orders to get rid of a traitor. If not, acting on his own to reach the goals that they set out to do. Remember, he wished for his Heart the most out of everyone else. Or that seems to have been the case on his death bed. However, it appears that Axel did take it, but did it his own way. Which is why Saïx agrees on him being a traitor before KH2. I don't know, read it somewhere...

 

[watermage9]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

I don't think Saix would never betray Xemnas since he and the superior do think a lot alike. They both commuicate with one another without the others in Where Nothing Gathers since they both share similar traits.

 

[Kiwise]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Well, I don't know. I feel some things in KH have already been a bit half-assed, and by tying these things together, it leaves some small plotholes in between. Which aren't a big deal, but are there. I just wish that Xion wasn't added in out of the blue. I don't know how they are going to explain how no one basically cares about her once she disappears off to wherever she will go, even though they did in the game >.>. Best cop out: memory wipe. Or else, it doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it. I've shrugged off things before, but this one takes the cake.

And it depends if he was even labeled by Axel a traitor. I would think he just said that Sora destroyed them all, and what not, and he's [suspiciously] the sole survivor. I wonder if he actually thought they would be that stupid...

Mmm... Yeah... I can dream things will eventually make sense. DX For Xion, I subscribe to the theory that she's some kind of memory-clone thing or something, which explains why she looks like Aqua and Kairi. I guess. So, when she's killed or erased or whatever, all memories of her are wiped. Which leaves Roxas feeling like he has to leave, and not knowing why. Influenced by Xion, indeed. And it could be molded to fit into whatever Naminé was saying, maybe. Eh. Makes as much sense as anything else.

Oh yeah... But I thought that someone (maybe Xaldin?) referred to them as traitors at some point. So they found out eventually? I doubt Axel honestly did, but is there a better excuse he could've used?

I was blank, for the most part. The whole Roxas thing, which made me widen my eyes for a second, and the cheesiness of it all just made me raise my eyebrows more than anything. Especially as he took so long to fade. I don't know, I guess it just wasn't my cup of tea. He deserved it in my mind. And the sacrifice, when he gave his life to a bunch of Dusks, could have been better. I expected something greater to go out in style.

I think we can really put on the line that the other members, minus royal Axel, would not appear D:. I'm definitely not putting any hopes into it, anyway.

Mmm. To me at the time, killing Axel was like killing Riku. It just... Can't happen. So I was surprised and got caught up in the moment. I was still expecting him to suddenly come out of nowhere again on up until I found the Proof of Existence room. (I didn't have good experiences with that room...) Later, thinking back on it, I decided he deserved it, and also that he didn't need to die right then.

DX Ughhh. There is a part of me saying that they wouldn't dare go that far... Except they probably would. Damn.

You can say he felt he had to put such a act, but it also appears that it isn't one. I wouldn't be surprised if he was truthfully amused, to be honest. To me, he seemed to be enjoying it every time I look at his scenes. And the whole Zexion attitude kind of debunks it a little. As I have stated, however, Vexen is understandable in certain terms, there could've just been a better way to handle it then killing him the way he did. I don't think it needs to be that cruel to get the point across. As long as he showed that he did not care, and was willing to destroy a higher up, was what mattered, I would think. That's what they were looking for.

We can't exactly know. But his expressions, or anything else, wasn't necessary.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were real either, but it's possible. Up to opinion, I guess?

The manga kept close to the original, except they had Axel do one slice, instead of two while Vexen was still alive for those short moments to feel that very good. I mean, I don't like the guy all that much, but I don't think he deserved something that gruesome.

I agree, he really didn't deserve that. Neither of them did.

I would think the creators. Or Nomura. They would be the ones working on the Novels.

I thought goldpanner said someone else entirely was working on the novels?

I understand. But like before, a good guy all along wouldn't morally do what he did on those, while Nobodies, people. And his reaction to it all as well. It's like saying to look at, let's say, some ass, that laughed and enjoyed his killings, only to then turn around and say, "Hey, he's a good guy! =D He was only lost in that moment about what to do and all."

There's various kinds of good guys. Including good guys who are not that good. If given some handwaves and excuses, like they seem to be trying to give, it's still possible to say Axel's a good guy, but he'd never be a knight-in-shining-armor do-gooder like Sora.

Translations really depend on the wording for the most part, which is why some translators do things differently than others, so you can never tell The thing, is whether it was truly a mistake? It appeared like he had thought that all along with the way he kind of used it as past tense. For example, "I always felt this *insert certain way*".

And yeah, I never heard anybody complain about them in that matter.

It's possible. That's all I can really say. Most things come down to a matter of opinion.

I'm willing to hold on. I'm not too excited anymore after the whole...yeah. I, for one, don't care who Xion is. Anymore. Second, the Organization members won't probably get anything as we had expected when we heard the game announced. And third, the only thing to look forward to is the Multiplayer.

Otherwise, BBS =P.

Despite my pessimism, there's a small part of me saying that it's still possible they might not screw it up, that the Org. members I actually care about might get some real character development, that they're only showing Xion and Axel for advertisement purposes... That part wants Days. Now. Can't wait. Want now. DX And the rest of me is afraid to find out because I know that part's wrong. So. I'm torn. Maybe I can get my friend to tell me without spoiling anything major....

Eh. I'm not as excited for BBS. I just don't really care at the moment. I'm curious about DS and Aqua somewhat, but that's pretty much it. Once I get tired of Days, I'll probably get into BBS, but not so much right now.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! Dx Don't put such horrendous things in such a post T-T. As a Larxene fan, it kills xD. I like how she is different than the rest. In fact, what you just said wouldn't be derailment. Just complete character butchering by the same people who created her. It wouldn't be Larxene, and I doubt they are that lazy. If they do things right, she would still be the bitch we all know, and to me, love, but have a softer side. It wouldn't come out of left field either. When she was dying, I think that's when her true colors came out. Either that, or the Japanese VA pulls at heart strings really well. They can work from that, and her line in the Novel. I find developing her character very interesting to explore. She can be incredibly complex if given the opportunity.

But, Axel was, kind of just telling us that he's nice now. And he wasn't really that asshole we saw way back in CoM. As I said, I accept it. There's nothing much to be done, even if it feels contrived and a sort of convenience. That's the path they've taken, and will continue to do so. It's just...how it was reached just for the sake of keeping him there.

DX Maybe it is a little overboard. Something along those lines, though. Could've been anyone, not necessarily Axel. He just happened to be the (un)lucky winner. I like to picture Larxene as [this], pretty much. Like a split personality, almost.

Yes. I think everyone from the Organization has the capability to be freaking awesome like that. They could all be so complex and interesting if given the chance. I mean, these are all different people from different backgrounds and worlds, probably all with different ways of viewing the situation they were pulled into. (Do they each consider themselves the same person as or an extension of their Others, or are they someone entirely different? How well do they remember their Others? Do they even like their others? How many of them are content with the current situation, like Larxene and Roxas, or are they all miserable? What exactly do they think will happen when they get their hearts back? All things I've wanted to know for the longest time.) They could have so much variety and they could all be unique and different from each other. If nothing else, they all have a story to tell about how they ended up as Nobodies and everything. And if that wasn't opportunity enough, there's also the relationships between characters. How they get along, who gets on better with who and why, what kind of interactions do they have, just stuff like that. And of course, their personalities.

They could do so much with all that, and it doesn't have to all be in one block, either. It could be subtle, details could easily be slipped into casual conversations between characters (not even just between Roxas and whoever). None of that would have to take up much time they had planned for the plot. Hell, it doesn't even have to be required. Finding various characters and just talking to them could do all of this. "Roxas: Axel, what do you know about *insert character here*?" "Roxas: Hey Demyx, *insert question here*?"

And they're not going to take advantage of the opportunities they have to decently develop their characters. And that's sad.

I'm way too long-winded. ._. Sorry.

Well, exactly. What are the extra stuff? I mean, he basically said that the game is short, but you can make it last longer by doing such and such. Which yes, sound more like side games. This means less screen time for the Org. members.

Yeah... But I kinda hoped from the beginning that extra stuff would mean side quests, not side games. As in "Roxas, do *insert quest or game here* for me and I'll tell you whatever you want to know about *insert character or event here*" Stuff we wanted to know, and the game lasts longer. Two in one!

It seems we do have to take whatever we can get D:. And I was so looking forward to see them constantly in my screen.

D= Me too. Well... I'm still looking forward to that, really. Yay, good graphics.

 

[firemage8]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Mmm... Yeah... I can dream things will eventually make sense. DX For Xion, I subscribe to the theory that she's some kind of memory-clone thing or something, which explains why she looks like Aqua and Kairi. I guess. So, when she's killed or erased or whatever, all memories of her are wiped. Which leaves Roxas feeling like he has to leave, and not knowing why. Influenced by Xion, indeed. And it could be molded to fit into whatever Naminé was saying, maybe. Eh. Makes as much sense as anything else.

I am guessing the same thing. To me she seems like a wasted character to begin with that I have seen so far. Almost another way for Square-Enix to get some candy to some fans and delight the Riku fans for him to goggle over. And add more sentimental crap....Xion is probably the most emoist character in all of the Kingdom Hearts series yet. I wouldn't be surprised she were in fact a heartless nobody. If that is even such a thing. All we know about her she wields a kyeblade, resmebles Kairi and has no memories.Among other things and Saix dispises her and thinks she is not fit the requirements of being a Organization member. There is one hint though Saix gives Axel a choice. "Either your existance for Xion or your friendship for Roxas." So maybe right there might lead to her demise. Something tells me this the darkest of the KH series.

There's various kinds of good guys. Including good guys who are not that good. If given some handwaves and excuses, like they seem to be trying to give, it's still possible to say Axel's a good guy, but he'd never be a knight-in-shining-armor do-gooder like Sora.

Fat chance of that happening. He is more two sided than anything. A deceivering manipulator. What's in for me kind of guy. If he was really turning to the rightous side he would of told Sora about the envovlement of what they were going to happen to all the hearts. He didn't and purposely changed the subject so Sora wouldn't see right through him. He was still tying to get Roxas back. So he was still willing to stay with the side of the organization even though he was upset with Sora. The novels have different aspect all the characters than the games that I've seen. Maybe I am oblivious, but I dont' pay attention to the novels that much. Why would it matter if they can't be read?

Despite my pessimism, there's a small part of me saying that it's still possible they might not screw it up, that the Org. members I actually care about might get some real character development, that they're only showing Xion and Axel for advertisement purposes... That part wants Days. Now. Can't wait. Want now. DX And the rest of me is afraid to find out because I know that part's wrong. So. I'm torn. Maybe I can get my friend to tell me without spoiling anything major....

What your friend knows.....Aw man.....

DX Maybe it is a little overboard. Something along those lines, though. Could've been anyone, not necessarily Axel. He just happened to be the (un)lucky winner. I like to picture Larxene as [this], pretty much. Like a split personality, almost.

Yes. I think everyone from the Organization has the capability to be freaking awesome like that. They could all be so complex and interesting if given the chance. I mean, these are all different people from different backgrounds and worlds, probably all with different ways of viewing the situation they were pulled into. (Do they each consider themselves the same person as or an extension of their Others, or are they someone entirely different? How well do they remember their Others? Do they even like their others? How many of them are content with the current situation, like Larxene and Roxas, or are they all miserable? What exactly do they think will happen when they get their hearts back? All things I've wanted to know for the longest time.) They could have so much variety and they could all be unique and different from each other. If nothing else, they all have a story to tell about how they ended up as Nobodies and everything. And if that wasn't opportunity enough, there's also the relationships between characters. How they get along, who gets on better with who and why, what kind of interactions do they have, just stuff like that. And of course, their personalities.

They could do so much with all that, and it doesn't have to all be in one block, either. It could be subtle, details could easily be slipped into casual conversations between characters (not even just between Roxas and whoever). None of that would have to take up much time they had planned for the plot. Hell, it doesn't even have to be required. Finding various characters and just talking to them could do all of this. "Roxas: Axel, what do you know about *insert character here*?" "Roxas: Hey Demyx, *insert question here*?"

And they're not going to take advantage of the opportunities they have to decently develop their characters. And that's sad.l



Yeah... But I kinda hoped from the beginning that extra stuff would mean side quests, not side games. As in "Roxas, do *insert quest or game here* for me and I'll tell you whatever you want to know about *insert character or event here*" Stuff we wanted to know, and the game lasts longer. Two in one!

I am surprised that Larxene didn't have much character developement not just because of being in COM, but because she was the only girl and you would think they would emphasize that a bit in some way. Her being special and dealing with a bunch of male members. We do know that she holds her own if anything. The damel in distress would ulimately kill her character. Split personality? Uh I dont' know, nobodies perception is the way they see themselves as they were with their memories. If that were the case wouldnt' they all share that quality?

The one thing we do know about the organization is that they still have their memories of who they were before and act upon according to that kind of personality. I thought that Square-Enix would of done that sooner since they are a very mysterious gang in a way. Having them all have character development all interact instead of a select few. How they all lived and who they disliked and their views over everything. Much like the backstage of it all. I would to see that done. Maybe it will happen sometime in the future or possibly sooner. The fans want it, but Square-Enix only has to listen.
No, I actually think that would be a cool thing to find out about the other nobodies and who they were before they actually came into being nobodies. I could so picture that and Square-Enix should do something like that. Roxas had a big impact in the organization life because they all went downhill once he was gone.

 

[Goldpanner]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

I am guessing the same thing. To me she seems like a wasted character to begin with that I have seen so far. Almost another way for Square-Enix to get some candy to some fans and delight the Riku fans for him to goggle over. And add more sentimental crap....Xion is probably the most emoist character in all of the Kingdom Hearts series yet. I wouldn't be surprised she were in fact a heartless nobody. If that is even such a thing. All we know about her she wields a kyeblade, resmebles Kairi and has no memories.

In my opinion, Xion is just a canon Mary Sue (if that can exist). To me, she sounds like a really bad OC from a fanfiction. 'What happens when Xion, a young girl with no memories of her past life becomes the 14th member of organisation 13?? What mysterious powers does she have?? and is she really kairis other nobody?? Read to find out!! PG, slight Roxas/Xion maybe future Riku/Xion my firts story, plz review!!! no flames' ...in fact before her name was released I was calling her Asmeuryx. I have another theory, that she was introduced to make Akuroku less 'canon'. I mean, makes Axel look a lot less gay but a lot more pedo if he has a little girl friend too.

The novels have different aspect all the characters than the games that I've seen

This is probably because the novels are written by an author called Tomoco Kanemaki, not by the people who created the series. is this the third time I've said that?
Here is a link to her blog: HAPPY HOUR
Google would probably translate it for you. Though google's translations can be hilariously garbled...

Maybe I am oblivious, but I dont' pay attention to the novels that much. Why would it matter if they can't be read?

...Yet you are on this thread...?

nobodies perception is the way they see themselves as they were with their memories. If that were the case wouldnt' they all share that quality? The one thing we do know about the organization is that they still have their memories of who they were before and act upon according to that kind of personality.

Yes. You are totally right. And I think sometimes people forget that, that Larxene and Axel and most of the rest are nobodies, who have no hearts. You just can't apply the same rules to how they should think or feel or react.

Having them all have character development all interact instead of a select few. How they all lived and who they disliked and their views over everything. Much like the backstage of it all. I would to see that done. Maybe it will happen sometime in the future or possibly sooner. The fans want it, but Square-Enix only has to listen.
No, I actually think that would be a cool thing to find out about the other nobodies and who they were before they actually came into being nobodies. I could so picture that and Square-Enix should do something like that.

I know... it would be so cool!! I think, I'd like to read that in novel or manga form, or even see it in anime or movie form *_*

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

I am guessing the same thing. To me she seems like a wasted character to begin with that I have seen so far. Almost another way for Square-Enix to get some candy to some fans and delight the Riku fans for him to goggle over. And add more sentimental crap....Xion is probably the most emoist character in all of the Kingdom Hearts series yet. I wouldn't be surprised she were in fact a heartless nobody. If that is even such a thing. All we know about her she wields a kyeblade, resmebles Kairi and has no memories.Among other things and Saix dispises her and thinks she is not fit the requirements of being a Organization member. There is one hint though Saix gives Axel a choice. "Either your existance for Xion or your friendship for Roxas." So maybe right there might lead to her demise. Something tells me this the darkest of the KH series.

That isn't what Saïx said. He said, either the friendship, or the eradication of Roxas. Which one is more important? I doubt Xion has anything to do with that, in my opinion.

Mmm... Yeah... I can dream things will eventually make sense. DX For Xion, I subscribe to the theory that she's some kind of memory-clone thing or something, which explains why she looks like Aqua and Kairi. I guess. So, when she's killed or erased or whatever, all memories of her are wiped. Which leaves Roxas feeling like he has to leave, and not knowing why. Influenced by Xion, indeed. And it could be molded to fit into whatever Naminé was saying, maybe. Eh. Makes as much sense as anything else.

Oh yeah... But I thought that someone (maybe Xaldin?) referred to them as traitors at some point. So they found out eventually? I doubt Axel honestly did, but is there a better excuse he could've used?

I wish I could know how the Japanese are taking this.

I don't like Xion. No. Not her. I don't like her character insertion. Her existence. The idea of her. It's contrived, forced, and I understand Nomura has pulled things out of his ass before, but this one is hard to swallow. This is the Organization's game, not hers. And Lord forbid if all we see is her, and the characters talking about her, I swear I will guarantee that I'll get my money back once I return the game. We have limited screen time as it is, 12 characters that needed development. Adding one more, and make her suddenly above the rest when she popped out of nowhere among established characters pissed me off to no end. And it's what turns me off about Days. If I wanted a 14th member, I would have gone to Fanfiction.Net. And they should have kept her entrance on the down low. I mean, throwing her suddenly in the clock tower, breaking a dynamic [however you perceive it], with Riku, Roxas, Axel, and Naminé, and all other important characters is a crap move to introduce a retcon that destroys what people were most comfortable of. This is fragile. So that's why I'm not surprised why the fandom is weary. Notice how Xion, when she wasn't shown this way and still cloaked, was fine. And then they show all these scans, and hell breaks lose. Naminé was never presented this way.

And as I said before, people forgetting about her is the biggest cop-out, merely because they know she doesn't make sense, they know she came from out of nowhere, and they know she's random, so they have to fix it by the simple method of memory wiping. Them doing this is basically admitting that it is bull.

I seriously...don't know WTF were they thinking. Even if they make her important [now], and try to fit her all in, I'm still not going to fall for that.

And I hate all this focus on the Kairi clones. I mean, couldn't there be any type of other girl that doesn't look like Kairi, older or not, to be of importance? And they are all the same: cookie-cutter females. They had Olette and Larxene, but they barely scraped screen time. It's ridiculous. If you have limited female characters, why not expand them, and keep them? You have them at your disposable, so instead of creating a new one, get to the others that have potential. Be creative. I've shrugged off bad writing before, but this one...no.

I'll pretend she never existed like all the rest of the characters do when in KH2.

*silence*


Excuse my rant xDD.

Mmm. To me at the time, killing Axel was like killing Riku. It just... Can't happen. So I was surprised and got caught up in the moment. I was still expecting him to suddenly come out of nowhere again on up until I found the Proof of Existence room. (I didn't have good experiences with that room...) Later, thinking back on it, I decided he deserved it, and also that he didn't need to die right then.

DX Ughhh. There is a part of me saying that they wouldn't dare go that far... Except they probably would. Damn.

They just wanted to finish up the Organization, I suppose. And Axel was one of them. As I said to someone else before, it's hard for something to make me cry or feel sorry for. The only time I ever did that was watching Titanic when I was 12, the movie Stand By Me, and a fanfiction where the end completely threw me off-guard as it made you so invested in the characters, that when one suddenly dies, and it's not a happy ending, well...

Which is why things like it never affected me. I wasn't that affected for what happened to Roxas either. Well, not that much. I would think he was lucky that he didn't fade away like the others did.

And as said, I doubt we'll see any Organization members other than Axel. Or whatever his real name will be. I'm not putting any faith, only to be let down.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were real either, but it's possible. Up to opinion, I guess?

I suppose xD.

I agree, he really didn't deserve that. Neither of them did.

I seriously bugged out when I saw those deaths. I mean, okay, there is one thing to show them dying in this matter, but begging for their lives before, and showed how much they wanted mercy? And to see who was at the end of it?

I thought goldpanner said someone else entirely was working on the novels?

Yeah. But Nomura looked at it. Or at least read it before it got printed out. There is so much you can do when leaving someone to write things about the game that are confirmed to be canon, and not take into account what they are doing. So he had a hand in it. He even said that he didn't know how much he left out of KH2 until he glanced at the Novels.

There's various kinds of good guys. Including good guys who are not that good. If given some handwaves and excuses, like they seem to be trying to give, it's still possible to say Axel's a good guy, but he'd never be a knight-in-shining-armor do-gooder like Sora.

I know that. But, I don't know. I just can't see him as a good guy at Heart with actions taken. If it was any other movie, or game, or if it was real life, I would have called what Axel did sociopathic tendencies with how cruel they were. And only Larxene gets the brunt when she didn't even do something remotely as bad as the sadism Axel showed. Bullies can do what she did. Planning someone's death that way, however, raises questions.

It's possible. That's all I can really say. Most things come down to a matter of opinion.

I suppose so.

Despite my pessimism, there's a small part of me saying that it's still possible they might not screw it up, that the Org. members I actually care about might get some real character development, that they're only showing Xion and Axel for advertisement purposes... That part wants Days. Now. Can't wait. Want now. DX And the rest of me is afraid to find out because I know that part's wrong. So. I'm torn. Maybe I can get my friend to tell me without spoiling anything major....

Eh. I'm not as excited for BBS. I just don't really care at the moment. I'm curious about DS and Aqua somewhat, but that's pretty much it. Once I get tired of Days, I'll probably get into BBS, but not so much right now.

I think I'm the other way around. I'm so pessimistic, and so negative about the game, that anything that appears as if they don't screw up will probably be seen as a success to me. I hate feeling that way. I used to be excited when I heard that there was going to be a game for the Organization members, and I could dream of the possibilities they would do with the characters and how deep they will be developed. Then they just completely ran it off-kilter when I saw how limited it was going to be with this new plot around. Notice how they have to add some mysterious character to gain interest in every game? I don't know. It's just not the same anymore. Axel gets enough screen time as it is as well. If Nomura can't keep up with 13 characters, he should have never created them. And even when he can't, he adds another one in, and focus his attention on her.

BBS is more appealing simply because it doesn't come off as random, and off-putting. And the gameplay is amazing.

DX Maybe it is a little overboard. Something along those lines, though. Could've been anyone, not necessarily Axel. He just happened to be the (un)lucky winner. I like to picture Larxene as [this], pretty much. Like a split personality, almost.

Yes. I think everyone from the Organization has the capability to be freaking awesome like that. They could all be so complex and interesting if given the chance. I mean, these are all different people from different backgrounds and worlds, probably all with different ways of viewing the situation they were pulled into. (Do they each consider themselves the same person as or an extension of their Others, or are they someone entirely different? How well do they remember their Others? Do they even like their others? How many of them are content with the current situation, like Larxene and Roxas, or are they all miserable? What exactly do they think will happen when they get their hearts back? All things I've wanted to know for the longest time.) They could have so much variety and they could all be unique and different from each other. If nothing else, they all have a story to tell about how they ended up as Nobodies and everything. And if that wasn't opportunity enough, there's also the relationships between characters. How they get along, who gets on better with who and why, what kind of interactions do they have, just stuff like that. And of course, their personalities.

They could do so much with all that, and it doesn't have to all be in one block, either. It could be subtle, details could easily be slipped into casual conversations between characters (not even just between Roxas and whoever). None of that would have to take up much time they had planned for the plot. Hell, it doesn't even have to be required. Finding various characters and just talking to them could do all of this. "Roxas: Axel, what do you know about *insert character here*?" "Roxas: Hey Demyx, *insert question here*?"

And they're not going to take advantage of the opportunities they have to decently develop their characters. And that's sad.

I'm way too long-winded. ._. Sorry.

Trust me when I say I'm just as long-winded as you, so that's no problem xD. Don't be sorry. It's funny you mention the tsundere. I was just thinking about it when in my thoughts of Larxene's character, and here you go, presenting it for me =P. I definitely see her as that type of girl.Though NOT for a guy. A person who's defensive, and shields herself, but is able to loosen up with the right people around. The mean and bitch factor has to be kept, however, or else, it wouldn't be her. For example, if she survived, plotting Axel's demise will be a good one xD. And I AGREE with EVERYTHING you said. That's what I was looking forward to in the game. Seeing interactions, how they act around one another. And Saïx has elf ears! Seriously. That makes me really curious as to where he's from. He greatly reminds me of a Elfian blood line. There's so much that could have been done. Really.

Wasted opportunities is sad D:. It's what kind of killed the excitement for me. And which brings me to my current..complaints ^^.

Yeah... But I kinda hoped from the beginning that extra stuff would mean side quests, not side games. As in "Roxas, do *insert quest or game here* for me and I'll tell you whatever you want to know about *insert character or event here*" Stuff we wanted to know, and the game lasts longer. Two in one!

Ooooh. I hope it's side quests. Please, I would that. Maybe with different members alone, or we get a point of view from them. Yet, I'm guessing this is me wishing too hard? ^^;

D= Me too. Well... I'm still looking forward to that, really. Yay, good graphics.

LOL. I'm just thinking that making AMVs, with the lack of members screen time, will be super hard. So my dreams of more Larxene in a video has been shot down.

 

[Goldpanner]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Excuse my rant xDD.

But what you said was so true!! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who hates the thought of her. And I usually try to find the good in every character.

I wasn't that affected for what happened to Roxas either. Well, not that much. I would think he was lucky that he didn't fade away like the others did.

I felt really sad about what happened to Roxas. In my opinion, though he didn't fade away, he was lobotomised and I find it so cruel.

Yeah. But Nomura looked at it. Or at least read it before it got printed out. There is so much you can do when leaving someone to write things about the game that are confirmed to be canon, and not take into account what they are doing. So he had a hand in it. He even said that he didn't know how much he left out of KH2 until he glanced at the Novels.

Well, of course she had the game creators input, because she even had spoilers for Xion in her novels and they were written ages before anyone else could know about that. But, he didn't write it. Same as he didn't draw the manga, Amano Shiro did, and you wouldn't call that canon, would you?

If it was any other movie, or game, or if it was real life, I would have called what Axel did sociopathic tendencies with how cruel they were.

He doesn't have a heart, you know. I had a theory that he gradually got less evil through conatct with Roxas, who sort of had a heart (...this is based off something I think Saix said after Axel faded away for good).... but if (/once) Days makes him out to have been soft all along, and then only evil for CoM, I will agree with your 'character derailment' thing 100%. (Call me pathetic for holding onto that tiny glimmer of hope, if you will...)

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

But what you said was so true!! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who hates the thought of her. And I usually try to find the good in every character.

If she hogs the screen time for the Organization members, she's dead gone to me. That's my main peeve.

I felt really sad about what happened to Roxas. In my opinion, though he didn't fade away, he was lobotomised and I find it so cruel.

I know. But things don't really affect me unless there's a certain way with how they do it.

Well, of course she had the game creators input, because she even had spoilers for Xion in her novels and they were written ages before anyone else could know about that. But, he didn't write it. Same as he didn't draw the manga, Amano Shiro did, and you wouldn't call that canon, would you?

Where was that? o.o

The difference between the manga and the Novels, it's that the manga was never proclaimed canon [it's obvious when it sometimes goes against he game, and seems to go its own way]. It takes its liberty. On the other hand, the Novels have been told they were canon, to explain the behind-the-scenes of the game. Hence, why it's more serious. Nomura might not have written it, but he was there to see to it, and if something was asked to be changed, they will do so. And that's what I meant.

He doesn't have a heart, you know. I had a theory that he gradually got less evil through conatct with Roxas, who sort of had a heart (...this is based off something I think Saix said after Axel faded away for good).... but if (/once) Days makes him out to have been soft all along, and then only evil for CoM, I will agree with your 'character derailment' thing 100%. (Call me pathetic for holding onto that tiny glimmer of hope, if you will...)

I see it more that they are making him this lost and confused person, on a way to make up for what he did. Which doesn't work for me. I love Axel, but sometimes, he's questionable in my view. But as it's been said, we'll just have to see.

 

[Goldpanner]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Where was that? o.o

In the first part of the chapter Last Minute to the Castle Oblivion, Xigbar tells Zexion stuff about Xeonhart and the keyblade wars and about an 'awakening room', and says 'there's definitely one more--friend, in there'. I assumed this was the room I've seen clips of Xemnas walking down halls to get to, and inside it I kind of remember someone in an organisation cloak whom I assumed to be Xion materialising with sparkly data lines, slumped down... i didn't imagine that, did i??

The difference between the manga and the Novels, it's that the manga was never proclaimed canon [it's obvious when it sometimes goes against he game, and seems to go its own way]. It takes its liberty. On the other hand, the Novels have been told they were canon, to explain the behind-the-scenes of the game. Hence, why it's more serious. Nomura might not have written it, but he was there to see to it, and if something was asked to be changed, they will do so. And that's what I meant.

Ok, fair enough. But I still wouldn't take the novels as canon. I mean, you read Seven Days, right? They took liberties as to what happened when in the game you are simply fighting. Not to mention they completely forgot about Axel's photo-theif stint.

I see it more that they are making him this lost and confused person, on a way to make up for what he did. Which doesn't work for me.

Hm... I saw it less as 'on a way to make up for it' and more as him going through the five stages of grief. Denial (you're coming back with me, conscious or not), anger (I'm so FLATTERED), bargaining (we both miss someone we care about), depression, and acceptance (that's what happens when you put your whole being into an attack).

But yeah, guess we just have to see.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

In the first part of the chapter Last Minute to the Castle Oblivion, Xigbar tells Zexion stuff about Xeonhart and the keyblade wars and about an 'awakening room', and says 'there's definitely one more--friend, in there'. I assumed this was the room I've seen clips of Xemnas walking down halls to get to, and inside it I kind of remember someone in an organisation cloak whom I assumed to be Xion materialising with sparkly data lines, slumped down... i didn't imagine that, did i??

Depends what you mean by imagining it. There was something there, yes, yet not what you think it was. That was not Xion. That was actually Aqua's armor, and it was in the Room Of Sleep. The Room of Awakening, holds the other "friend". And if that was Aqua's armor, it's easy to guess what the next one might hold. This is what you're talking about? [wow, this makes me really interested in Xemnas' past and BBS now that I looked it up again]:

​

Ok, fair enough. But I still wouldn't take the novels as canon. I mean, you read Seven Days, right? They took liberties as to what happened when in the game you are simply fighting. Not to mention they completely forgot about Axel's photo-theif stint.

It's proclaimed as canon, so, why you wouldn't take it as it, it's kind of official :/. And it's understandable that they took the liberty in the fighting scenes. We know that Axel and Roxas have a battle, for example, but that's also where the gameplay starts, and we take control. We don't really know what truly happens. Hence, why it doesn't really drift, so to speak. About the photo thief stint, I don't know. Is it that they didn't add the scene, or they didn't put it when it was supposed to?

Hm... I saw it less as 'on a way to make up for it' and more as him going through the five stages of grief. Denial (you're coming back with me, conscious or not), anger (I'm so FLATTERED), bargaining (we both miss someone we care about), depression, and acceptance (that's what happens when you put your whole being into an attack).

But yeah, guess we just have to see.

I wasn't seeing it from KH2's standpoint. I was talking more about his overall character that we've seen. And the fact that he was never really planned to survive until the staff took a favor to him, the whole switch personality makes sense.

 

[Goldpanner]

Re: Axel--Seven Days Game Novel translation

Depends what you mean by imagining it. There was something there, yes, yet not what you think it was. That was not Xion. That was actually Aqua's armor, and it was in the Room Of Sleep. The Room of Awakening, holds the other "friend". And if that was Aqua's armor, it's easy to guess what the next one might hold. This is what you're talking about?

Yeah, that was it! But I'd only seen a really short part of it. Ahh it makes much more sense now. The word Xemnas used for 'friend' there was the exact same word Xigbar used, too ('tomo' instead of the more usual 'tomodachi', or the even more frequent in terms of these guys 'aite' or 'tsukiai')... ok so I suck. Sorry -_-

It's proclaimed as canon

If Nomura has explicitly stated that, I believe it. (May as well believe it, cause you only ever have well grounded reasons for saying anything!)

About the photo thief stint, I don't know. Is it that they didn't add the scene, or they didn't put it when it was supposed to?

In the novel, Axel only ever goes into the virtual world three times. He does not stay there for very long at any time; the scenes are covered from the moment he goes in to the moment he goes out. He is acting completely separate to the dusks, not even knowing that Vivi was a dusk and having to work that stuff out for himself. The only time he ever asks them to do something is when they destroy the barrier around the mansion for him, and that time, he asks them 'will you guys work for me?' as if he isn't sure they'll follow his orders.

But... I think I had this wrong, too, sorry! Thought Axel had something to do with stealing the photos, but I looked at some game scripts and I couldn't find anything. Guess I was thinking of that scene from the manga, then. I am so sorry, having a stupid day. ;__;

I wasn't seeing it from KH2's standpoint. I was talking more about his overall character that we've seen. And the fact that he was never really planned to survive until the staff took a favor to him, the whole switch personality makes sense.

Oh, ok. Makes sense. And then they took him too far and made him too gay and now they have to add a Xion in somewhere to fix it? (it's my crack theory.)

I love the organisation. I'd love to see some character development on Xigbar and Zexion and Saix and... all of them, really. I feel just the same as you; if Xion character building takes over this game, I will be so pissed. But you know how the japanese are; I guess Days is aimed more at girls, who care about the backstory (and Roxas' voice actor) and the giant dating sim that is organisation 13, so they felt they had to put in a weak self-insertable female character to be loved and saved by the cute male characters.