god i hate these.
thank you for translating them-- very well done. i'm sorry the content on offer is such trite shit.
thank you for translating them-- very well done. i'm sorry the content on offer is such trite shit.
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nah it's rambling from the SUB IS SUPERIOR crowd 9 times out of 10. obviously. French is not 1:1 with English, just like English isn't 1:1 to Japanese, just like Japanese isn't 1:1 to Korean. not calling out the staff or people like soc725, just the randoms who are "calling out" the ENG localization as though they read JPN [fluently].
but lets not blow that out of proportion, the point is that both these character files and kanemaki's writing are fantastic and do a great job conveying (more) character to these characters. KH never gets time to do slice of life or care for its characters, and to see these writings come out is a boon for the series and what KHDR (and KHUX) should (have) do(ne)
I was just making an offhand remark on how much the fandom's attitudes towards it have changed, and I do agree with @SuperSaiyanSora in that the Remixes probably had a lot to do with it. They probably also had a lot to do with BBS's fall from grace too.
And for you dub vs sub nerds, 90% of you can't read hiragana let alone kanji, stop pretending like the difference in JPN script compared to ENG script is something you can recognize and not just the ramblings of a tumblrite.
This is arguably the part that could yield the most new information and yet it is only a small paragraph.Xehanort said:After that, I set out on a journey traveling the worlds alone, in order to prepare myself for the Mark of Mastery examination. I learned many things on that trip.
Interesting thing in the first paragraph is that Eraqus apparently went from "poetic excuses" to "if it were true" throughout time and while he still thinks how Xehanort does things is wrong he doesn't adamantly think that Xehanort is wrong about everything anymore.Eraqus said:You’d said darkness is a beginning, and that the world itself was born from it. But even if that were true, we cannot allow the world to return there.
I wonder if the measures I put in place to stop you worked, Xehanort.
I was always by your side.
thing is also something that has already been done multiple times, with Riku Replica, with Naminé, with Roxas and with Xion.Vanitas said:I am both you and not you at the same time.
nah it's rambling from the SUB IS SUPERIOR crowd 9 times out of 10. obviously. French is not 1:1 with English, just like English isn't 1:1 to Japanese, just like Japanese isn't 1:1 to Korean. not calling out the staff or people like soc725, just the randoms who are "calling out" the ENG localization as though they read JPN [fluently]. but lets not blow that out of proportion,
the point is that both these character files and kanemaki's writing are fantastic and do a great job conveying (more) character to these characters.
KH never gets time to do slice of life or care for its characters, and to see these writings come out is a boon for the series and what KHDR (and KHUX) should (have) do(ne)
Maybe a mini writing rant, but I hate "plot-driven" stories, because they're barely stories, but rather just a list of ideas for a story. No matter how cool one thinks their "plot" is, it's meaningless if the characters are written poorly and stupidly forced into dumb actions in order for these events to happen. Quality of character dictates quality of plot, and if a writer really cares about their plot, then they would care about their characters just as much, if not more.When it comes to Nomura himself I am by now convinced that he is totally into a plot-driven narrative and that is subject to multiple changes because of a) what is Nomura's current biggest interest and b) what serves his "must be surprising"-tick.
If in order to reach these two aims internal logic and already established character arcs have to be thrown out of the window they will be.
Is it sad how "Darkness Rubbish" has a more KH sound to it than Dark Road?KH: DR aka Kingdom Hearts: Darkness Rubbish.
Yeah, and like I was saying earlier, it's so weird that BBS isn't as praised as it used to be. There was a time when people called it the best KH game in the series. Even more than KH2FM+, people actually liked the Command Decks and Vanitas Sentiment boss. I don't even think "floaty combat" was a complaint until way later.
I see people wanting a 358/2 Days remake, and I'm like, what? Bruh. Most people back then thought the game was mid, and only liked it because of the Organization being fleshed out and really the ending. A lot of the game was monotonous with barely any story in the missions (mostly just go to a world, kill the heartless and go back to base), and the story parts don't even really kick in until WAY later. Now, I like the story (I even liked the game too, as a matter of fact) but 358/2 benefited from the movie SO MUCH. And if it ended up getting a full remake... I don't think it'd be appreciated as much as it currently is, in all honesty.
I feel like BBS became an easy target post-KH3 for KH2FM gameplay stans because it was Osaka Team's pride and joy. The first KH game they'd ever worked on, and the one they were universally praised for between the characters, story, gameplay, etc. So a lot of folks who were upset about KH3 sought to take out their anger and frustration on that instead. While there are perfectly fair criticisms against this game (I've seen many right here on this forum), I feel like we don't really hear much about it because this petty feud dominated the conversation.
Days on the other hand has been divisive from the start, and the original game, despite being praised for the story and main trio, was not remembered well for everything else (the gameplay sucked, the missions were tedious and the rest of the Organization were horribly underdeveloped). But the HD collection cut all that stuff out and focused entirely on its strengths in RAX's emotional journey, which worked entirely in its favor. I completely agree that a full HD remake of Days wouldn't be as well received as the cinematic scenes because of all this BS we'd have to sit through.
At least from my observations, BBS has been slowly regaining its popularity now that Osaka Team have proven themselves with Re Mind and more people have been able to pick up the collections.
I don't think this is quite true. Perhaps on KHInsider but on KH13 (haha yes I know) BBS started to really lose favour around 2015/16, but especially moreso in 2016. I do think a lot of that is down to the remixes A) exposing BBS's faults on a larger scale B) the remixes were generally kinda ass and coloured the experience for a lot of people. It's certainly not something that's out of the blue to me at any rate. It's definitely not something that's only recently been raked over the coals because of KH3, it's been getting shat on for a long time.I feel like BBS became an easy target post-KH3 for KH2FM gameplay stans because it was Osaka Team's pride and joy. The first KH game they'd ever worked on, and the one they were universally praised for between the characters, story, gameplay, etc. So a lot of folks who were upset about KH3 sought to take out their anger and frustration on that instead. While there are perfectly fair criticisms against this game (I've seen many right here on this forum), I feel like we don't really hear much about it because this petty feud dominated the conversation.
I don't think this is quite true. Perhaps on KHInsider but on KH13 (haha yes I know)
BBS started to really lose favour around 2015/16, but especially moreso in 2016. I do think a lot of that is down to the remixes A) exposing BBS's faults on a larger scale B) the remixes were generally kinda ass and coloured the experience for a lot of people. It's certainly not something that's out of the blue to me at any rate. It's definitely not something that's only recently been raked over the coals because of KH3, it's been getting shat on for a long time.
I agree a lot with this. While I don't find TAV cliche exactly, I felt they were too burrowed from everyone else in their first game. I cringe everytime I hear "Give me a break Aqua" and then you have Terra with Riku's taunts during training and my personal favorite in the flashback zombie Ventus sitting with a guy friend on his right and the girl to his left. This is why I loved the bits from the novel and those short stories. It felt like TAV finally had something of their own.It always seemed to me like Days was highly ambitious for a DS game in terms of graphics and scope of it's story and in the end it's really just a huge cheesy mess.
BBS struck a good balance but it's easy to look back on things and find flaws. Or maybe it's more accurate to say it's easier to be vocal about flaws than it is about things the games got right. I think BBS has a lot of redeeming qualities, probably more than Days does, but I've never personally thought that the characters or their relationships were done well. TAV came off as cliche to me, even their names "terra" "aqua" and "ventus" came off as uninspired, and the reason for why they care about each other so much is never explored.
Someone else mentioned it in this thread or another I think but I'm really starting to believe KH needs the sort of downtime that Destiny Island/Traverse Town brought to Sora/Riku/Kairi in KH1 and Twilight Town brought to Roxas in KH2. They need the casual, lazy, peaceful days those worlds brought to individual characters and their relationships to contrast the moments where they struggle. When I think of TAV my first thought always goes to the secret movie where they're fighting Xehanort, absolutely beautiful and I can always tell how much they care about each other while they're fighting together, but as far as I can remember that's all the game ever really offers in terms of their relationships and it ends up feeling... static, plot driven, uninspired. I don't think my first thought of a group of friends should be of them fighting together against an ultimate villain; I want to think about the days that Sora, Riku, and Kairi spent on Destiny Island because it makes me care about Sora rescuing them. They didn't even need to spend much time elaborating on destiny island either, all they had to do was show us a few scenes of their day to day lives.
Days instead builds a relationship between roxas and xion from the ground up and offers them downtime in the form of cutscenes, but its unfortunate because cutscenes don't make the player feel like they're really involved. And the number of insignificant missions you're forced to do only serves as an impediment for you to get to the next cutscene. As a result, unsurprisingly, the game ends up feeling convoluted and melodramatic.
These stories are so barebones that we shifted the topic to RAX and others games.
These are largely the reasons I give days a pass and why I think people maybe judge it too harshly because I really do think Days has a lot of redeemable qualities about it. The humor, dialogue and individual moments are some of the best that the series has to offer, but everything outside of those bits I'm tempted to call a failure.While I personally don't think all the missions are that bad, most of them are not fun and downright tedious. Particularly the ones where Roxas is by himself because now you won't have someone for him to bounce off of.
A lot of personality was lost in the Days movie, because like you said you are playing the game and making the relationships yourself it's just Days did not have good gameplay structure by KH standards. I even think at times the KH portraits in Days give them more personality then half the cutscenes do in the movie. I remember Xion lost a lot of her attitude in the cutscene where Roxas called her out on how he thought she never worried over him. She got angry and made a annoyed noise in the original while in the movie they kept her rather quiet. Likewise Axel's reveal of knowing Xion was a puppet was far more intense in the original then how it's presented in the movie. But maybe that's just a translation thing.
Spoiler Show-The mission system taking place over 358 days is ridiculously tedious to begin with. Letting the player know that this game takes place over roughly a year and making 75%+ of that filler missions was a terrible idea. Imagine reading a 300 page book where 70% of the pages inside did not matter and were just page long descriptions of fish or machinery (hello 10,000 leagues under the sea [that book was actually great though]). Even with some great drama/cinematic/comedic moments all of that gets lost in the tediousness of the mission system. Sign is right that it's probably better off as a movie, but you're also right that there were a lot of moments in individual missions that were lost. To me, this just means that the manga is the best way to get into this story.
-The setting. Everyone is wearing black coats and all of the high impact cinematic moments take place in the orange hue of twilight town or the chrome of the World That Never Was. It's incredibly bland in my opinion. It's probably, personally, my biggest issue with the game which some people might find funny but it's just how I feel. I don't even know how to fix it. Maybe if RAX hung out at different worlds and took off their coats in favor of some different clothes once in a while I would have been okay with it, but something about the blandness of this game just annoys the hell out of me.
-The Nobodies' inability to "feel" things. This has been flawed from the very beginning as well and it's another thing that honestly pisses me off because it doesn't make any real sense. The organization tells its members that they can't feel emotion and then they proceed to have these awkward inner/outer dialogues about how they want to 'feel' but can't, or think they can 'feel' but actually don't. None of these series of dialogues on the subject comes even close to sounding believable to me. I mean I understand the concept of what they were going for but if they truly felt nothing when they first became nobodies they'd have no reason to trust Xemnas about their "feelings" and when they did develop feelings theres no reason I can think of why they would question whether or not they actually feel anything. And it's an interesting concept don't get me wrong, but it was done on the head for the plot, with no nuance to make it feel believable in any way.
OMG Vanitas' character file gives me a whole new perspective on him. I'm loving it! I wish he said all that "I hate Xehanort, I hate everyone" stuff in the games somewhere! That would make me actually be way more interested in his character.
I'll agree that the manga is the best way to experience this one over the games. I'd even throw in the novel. I'll also agree that this off topic has gone on long enough.These are largely the reasons I give days a pass and why I think people maybe judge it too harshly because I really do think Days has a lot of redeemable qualities about it. The humor, dialogue and individual moments are some of the best that the series has to offer, but everything outside of those bits I'm tempted to call a failure.
Because honestly, conceptually, Days was in a really really reallyyy awkward place from the very beginning.
Spoiler Show-The mission system taking place over 358 days is ridiculously tedious to begin with. Letting the player know that this game takes place over roughly a year and making 75%+ of that filler missions was a terrible idea. Imagine reading a 300 page book where 70% of the pages inside did not matter and were just page long descriptions of fish or machinery (hello 10,000 leagues under the sea [that book was actually great though]). Even with some great drama/cinematic/comedic moments all of that gets lost in the tediousness of the mission system. Sign is right that it's probably better off as a movie, but you're also right that there were a lot of moments in individual missions that were lost. To me, this just means that the manga is the best way to get into this story.
-The setting. Everyone is wearing black coats and all of the high impact cinematic moments take place in the orange hue of twilight town or the chrome of the World That Never Was. It's incredibly bland in my opinion. It's probably, personally, my biggest issue with the game which some people might find funny but it's just how I feel. I don't even know how to fix it. Maybe if RAX hung out at different worlds and took off their coats in favor of some different clothes once in a while I would have been okay with it, but something about the blandness of this game just annoys the hell out of me.
-The Nobodies' inability to "feel" things. This has been flawed from the very beginning as well and it's another thing that honestly pisses me off because it doesn't make any real sense. The organization tells its members that they can't feel emotion and then they proceed to have these awkward inner/outer dialogues about how they want to 'feel' but can't, or think they can 'feel' but actually don't. None of these series of dialogues on the subject comes even close to sounding believable to me. I mean I understand the concept of what they were going for but if they truly felt nothing when they first became nobodies they'd have no reason to trust Xemnas about their "feelings" and when they did develop feelings theres no reason I can think of why they would question whether or not they actually feel anything. And it's an interesting concept don't get me wrong, but it was done on the head for the plot, with no nuance to make it feel believable in any way.
Anyway, I've written too much on the subject already so I'm gonna stop here but I wanted to point out the flaws so I could say that there's really no point in arguing over what the 'worst' games are. Like I said before, it's easy to point out flaws in things, I could systematically tear every KH game apart if I wanted to, but the 'redeeming qualities' are the ones that stick with people, and those qualities are naturally different for everyone.
On topic, I totally agree with you. I really hope this "emptiness" thing becomes canon because I would actually love his character if it did.
*awkwardly raises hand*Low key I had to scroll up to see what thread I was even in. Whoops