Keyblade Stances...

[matrix8140]

Kairi's keyblade stance was beastly. It should be the only way to hold it. ;D

And Sora looked weird holding the keyblade in that stance when I first played KH. IMO the best stance is Valor form or Wisdom form.

 

[Lingering Night]

Technically, it could. Moving your arm forward like that is much faster and easier than moving your arm forward in the same motion, and then slashing by moving your arm in the opposite direction (like Sora or Aqua).

I mean, it's arguably harder to hold a sword like that as opposed to the traditional grip, but so what? It's Ven's personal preference (as far as we know). It's different, and therefore it's stupid?

I agree, to me backhanding just seems quicker in execution, and reflects Vens personal style. I mean, hating Ven's stance because he backhands his keyblade is like hating someone for writing lefthanded. It's illogical. Everyone's respective stances reflect their fighting style. And it's not much harder to hold a sword that way, I suppose it depends on the blade though.

 

[Ikkin]

I agree, to me backhanding just seems quicker in execution, and reflects Vens personal style. I mean, hating Ven's stance because he backhands his keyblade is like hating someone for writing lefthanded. It's illogical. Everyone's respective stances reflect their fighting style. And it's not much harder to hold a sword that way, I suppose it depends on the blade though.

Holding a full-length sword in a reverse grip is pretty impractical, though. It reduces the range of the weapon, and makes it more difficult to immediately launch into another effective strike. It's effective for knives, but I think Ven's Keyblade is long enough that the only advantage is that it looks cool.

Terra and Aqua's stances aren't particularly effective either, though (because the blade is facing away from their opponent, how are you supposed to cut your opponent like that, gah) And I've never been able to figure out any good way to strike from Riku/Vanitas' stance (because the blade is, once again, facing the wrong way). XD Sora, somehow, manages to avoid this.

 

[Lingering Night]

Holding a full-length sword in a reverse grip is pretty impractical, though. It reduces the range of the weapon, and makes it more difficult to immediately launch into another effective strike. It's effective for knives, but I think Ven's Keyblade is long enough that the only advantage is that it looks cool. XD

Yeah but it also makes it easier to parry and block blows, and seems to quicken at least the preliminary blow. Besides, Ven's blade is relatively short. Besides, it accenuates the fact that Ven is a total badass XD.

 

[Smile]

Terra and Aqua's stances aren't particularly effective either, though (because the blade is facing away from their opponent, how are you supposed to cut your opponent like that, gah) And I've never been able to figure out any good way to strike from Riku/Vanitas' stance (because the blade is, once again, facing the wrong way). XD Sora, somehow, manages to avoid this.

This reminds me of a debate I had once with a friend, about how Sora's stance resembles a samurai's while Riku's resembles more a western knight.
[/random]

Besides, it accenuates the fact that Ven is a total badass XD.

Or that Nomura never took practicality into effect and only focused on this itself - how cool it looked.

 

[Key]

Well, it IS easier to swing a shorter blade in reverse grip because you'd be using the same motion one would use if you were punching someone, only with a bit more range and a lot more punch (considering you have a huge metal weapon to hit people with.)

That and if you look at it, Ven's signature keyblades look really odd if you hold them the "normal" way.


And about the Ven looking around while he's in his stance, if you notice, Sora does it too~ They both look around and fidget a bit during a fight, and i see it more as "looking at the big picture" rather than being "unfocused" like someone else said earlier, can't remember who. Because of this, I WOULD chalk it up to inexperience. That, and it kinda adds another similarity between the two~

 

[Ralz]

Whenever the camera panned during bosses or whatever, Aqua seemed to be the one who fit the most. Even her fishface looked serious. She was determined to defeat her opponent. Terra also displays a look of seriousness and determination. Ven just looks around, even against a single opponent. His keyblade flip is him just trying to be flashy. If he was older, he probably would have to stay focused on the opponent instead of showing off.

 

[Absent axel]

Ive always thought that backhanded style of fighting was awkward, ive tried it myself and the only perfect strokes i could get was just one swing.

 

[Ikkin]

Ive always thought that backhanded style of fighting was awkward, ive tried it myself and the only perfect strokes i could get was just one swing.

It's meant for knife fighting, where the length of the blade means that you're in a good position to stab after the first slash.

Ven's Keyblade, of course, is rather too long for that. =/

 

[Sephiroth0812]

vens keyblade is pretty short actaully especially when compared to the others

That's true...but it's still to long for a knife...it's not a keydagger, lol.

But honestly, I don't see any problem with Ven's style nor his stance.
That looking around before can also be counted as checking the surroundings i.e. possible escape routes or points where enemy reinforcements could show up.

I actually found it refreshing that Ven had an other style and wasn't just a Sora/Roxas/Xion clone battle-style-wise.

 

[kupo1121]

That's true...but it's still to long for a knife...it's not a keydagger, lol.

But honestly, I don't see any problem with Ven's style nor his stance.
That looking around before can also be counted as checking the surroundings i.e. possible escape routes or points where enemy reinforcements could show up.

I actually found it refreshing that Ven had an other style and wasn't just a Sora/Roxas/Xion clone battle-style-wise.

I agree with the fact that Ven's stance was a nice spin on the average way to hold a keyblade.

Actually, I think Ven's stance may have been designed similar to a tonfa in one manner or another. Depsite tonfa's being held in pairs, they are fast weapons and are associated with wind in other video games (Soul Calibur's Talim). Tonfas can be spun to do numerous fast hits, and despite Ven not doing that in battle, after winning he often poses by spinning his keyblade, a different manner then a tonfa, but still spinning nonetheless in a way that can be wielded either way, though he only chooses to fight with it facing one direction.

I would like to see someone wield two keyblades like two tonfas and use them like tonfas xP

 

[Taochan]

That's true...but it's still to long for a knife...it's not a keydagger, lol.

But honestly, I don't see any problem with Ven's style nor his stance.
That looking around before can also be counted as checking the surroundings i.e. possible escape routes or points where enemy reinforcements could show up.

I actually found it refreshing that Ven had an other style and wasn't just a Sora/Roxas/Xion clone battle-style-wise.

I'm so glad Ven didn't have the same style has Sora/Roxas/Xion. I would have raged inside. I also don't see what's wrong with his style; I thought it was really unique and a tad unorthodox that's all.

 

[Fractured_Heart628]

I thought Ven's style was unique. At least, we didn't see him wield the Keyblade like Sora/Roxas/Xion did. I still don't get why Riku and Vanitas wield their Keyblades the same manner.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Because they use the same opening stance.?
It isn't so special for two people to have the same stance, Zack Fair and Cloud Strife do the same, as nearly do Aqua and Count Dooku from Star Wars.

However, as we know Nomura...if he someday decides to make it important this why?-question will probably become interesting.

 

[Smile]

Because they use the same opening stance.?
It isn't so special for two people to have the same stance, Zack Fair and Cloud Strife do the same, as nearly do Aqua and Count Dooku from Star Wars.

However, as we know Nomura...if he someday decides to make it important this why?-question will probably become interesting.

Are you familiar with the FFVII universe at all? I admit to never having played CC but Zack and Cloud have a ridiculously good reason to hold their weapons in the same manner.
And Roxas, Sora and Xion have wonderful reasons to hold their weapons in the same way.
So Vanitas and Riku holding their weapons in the same way is actually potentially hazardous to the plot, not just important. And it's not like it's their only similar traits, either, their Darkness-get-up design is basically identical as well.
Chances are it's important. And it'll add up too nicely with the storyline Nomura already based with Xion that Riku and Sora are connected on a very basic, existential level; it'll just show that Xion was utilizing something that was there before instead of establishing it.
I'm talking of course about how Xion made Riku's Memories flow into Sora, something that has to do either with her own nature of existence, or an already existing bond between Riku and Sora. Would certainly help explain the fact the Keyblade went to Sora from Riku to begin with.
Imagine Riku and Vanitas are related. Then Vanitas gets absorbed not in a complete manner into Ven whose Heart then finds shelter within Sora.
Cue KH1's Keyblade tug-o-war and Days' Snarl of Memories where Xion saw Riku's Memories, and the novels where Namine saw Riku's Memories inside Sora's Heart.
It all adds up all too gloriously and if there's one thing Days and BBS both taught me about KH, that I've actually known for a good while -
KH isn't too surprising in most plot directions. If there's so much smoke, there's probably fire.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Actually I have played both CC and FFVII and I've also to admit that it's been a while I last touched them...but I always assumed that Clouds Mako-poisoning, trauma and jenova-cells lead to him impersonating Zack and i never thought about that their fighting stance might have to do something with it.
I just assumed it was because they were trained in the same fighting style...i.e. like real-world fencing, there you also have standard-stances which look nearly the same.

As for your explanations in the spoilers I've to ask you to bear with my ignorance of any connections between Xion and Riku or Xion connecting Riku and Sora more than they already were since I never played Days and here in Germany I've zero access to any of the novels.
That Vanitas is connected to Sora and still connected to Ven I knew...but that he's also connected to Riku is new for me...when should that connection have been formed?
Riku and Vanitas never interacted nor did Riku and Ventus...or was Sora used as an intermediate element???

 

[Smile]

As for your explanations in the spoilers I've to ask you to bear with my ignorance of any connections between Xion and Riku or Xion connecting Riku and Sora more than they already were since I never played Days and here in Germany I've zero access to any of the novels.

In Days, there's a cutscene called Snarl of Memories, in which while on Destiny Islands, Xion sees a flashback of when Riku met Zexion in Castle Oblivion during Re:CoM. As she's a Sora replica and that's obviously a Riku Memory, eyebrows were raised. We then see that Riku's actually right next to her, which can explain the Memory leakage - just like how being close to Roxas let Sora and Roxas's Memories flow into Xion, so did Riku's Memories flow into her as well.
Then the novels - which are available online in unofficial translations, mostly on livejournal - show of when Namine's trying to piece together Sora's Memories. She finds Memories that belong to Riku in Sora's Heart, Memories she recognized of when she duplicated Riku's Memories and transplanted them in his Replica. The only way to explain this is that the Memories flowed in through Xion.

That Vanitas is connected to Sora and still connected to Ven I knew...but that he's also connected to Riku is new for me...when should that connection have been formed?

That's about the only piece of this puzzle that's missing. But if you assume it exists and that an explanation will be provided later, even if in the BBS novels or something, everything else adds up too nicely.

Riku and Vanitas never interacted nor did Riku and Ventus...or was Sora used as an intermediate element???

Never interacted - that we know of, would be the precise way of putting it. Sora and Ven never "interacted" and in fact still never came properly face to face, and even this was revealed only in BBS. It's not farfetched to assume that Vanitas came into contact with Riku's Heart in some form or manner (I still say there's a chance Vanitas was torn out of Ven when Riku was born and then Ven was brought to DI when Sora was born, until I see clear-cut timeline proof saying otherwise), and that affected Riku. Minor support to this is that Riku's been wielding his weapon the same way as Vanitas from a very young age, as shown in the Re:CoM made-up Memories. One can argue Namine made it up according to present-day Riku, but I fail to see the need to go the distance if Sora and Riku were already play-fighting at that young an age. She most likely used the Memories that were already there.
So unless Riku somehow saw Vanitas wielding, which I find a bit less likely for the KH verse (even rather unrelated characters like Aqua and Kairi ended up having a rather strong bond [unrelated since everyone else got merged into single entities over time, even Riku and Terra through Rikunort]), the most likely explanation is that there's a stronger, deeper bond between the two.

As for Sora being a proxy... that's also possible, but then the question transforms into when did Riku get access to Vanitas inside Ven inside Sora's Heart - but again, that's the only thing left to be figured out about this as far as I'm concerned and amounts to basically the same issue - Riku having a low-level connection to someone else's Heart. Question remains now to whom - Sora, Ven, or Vanitas.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Uh yea, sounds all pretty reasonable, and since that widely swept Terra is our present day Xehanort-Theory turned out to be true I wouldn't be surprised if there really is something to this one, too.

However, what still bugs me is where IS Vanitas? He can't be again a part of Ven since if he was Ven would have his darkness back, his heart wouldn't be pure light anymore and therefore he would have turned into a heartless instead of falling comatose. So were did that dark bugger go to take a nap?
As far as I remember, both their hearts, Ven's as well as Vanitas's were connected to the x-blade. So when the x-blade was destroyed and Ven's heart got struck with an injury far worse than at the beginning of BBS shouldn't Vanitas's dark heart then get injured as well?

 

[Smile]

However, what still bugs me is where IS Vanitas? He can't be again a part of Ven since if he was Ven would have his darkness back, his heart wouldn't be pure light anymore and therefore he would have turned into a heartless instead of falling comatose. So were did that dark bugger go to take a nap?
As far as I remember, both their hearts, Ven's as well as Vanitas's were connected to the x-blade. So when the x-blade was destroyed and Ven's heart got struck with an injury far worse than at the beginning of BBS shouldn't Vanitas's dark heart then get injured as well?

Well, to be nitpicky, despite Nomura pulling a fast one on us by having MX command Heartless and such, it doesn't mean someone instantly becomes a Heartless. You're also forgetting that Ven and Sora's Hearts were linked since even before Sora was born [Nomura confirmed their initial contact was BEFORE Sora was born, but he clouded that notion up a bit for the western audiences whose views on life are different than in the East]. Also, it's not the only time in which we've seen something like this before - Riku was kicked out of his Vessel in KH1 by SoD Ansem, and his Heart wondered the Realm of Darkness [heh, wonder how come he didn't run into Aqua >_>;;; ] without becoming a Heartless.
So being kicked out of your body/leaving your body =\= becoming a Heartless. Otherwise MX would've became one too instead of migrating into Terra. Yet alas, that's not the case. Becoming a Heartless is a very specific process in which your Heart loses to its own Darkness. That's obviously not the case for Ven who, despite regaining his Darkness, defeated that Darkness' incarnation, Vanitas.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Ah, now I get it...so my assumption that an existence losing it's heart doesn't always mean the creation of an heartless is right after all.
So even if that heart has darkness, as little as it might be, if the heart isn't overcome by that darkness it doesn't turn into a heartless.
Well, well, that speaks for the strength of Ven's heart even when heavily injured because of just having destroyed the x-blade.

Thanks for clearing that up for me...so Sora did lose against his own darkness when he stabbed himself in KH I.