Keyblade Ceremony



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Veritas7340

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In KHI, it is said that the Keyblade chooses its master. We see this in action when the Kingdom Key chooses Sora over Riku because he had the stronger heart.

However, in BBS, suddenly wielders can essentially force Keyblades to serve whomever they deem is worthy.

Who dislikes this? I dislike this, because it deprives the Keyblades of their mysterious sentience.

For those who like it, I'm interested to hear why.
 

BlazeHeatnix

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It's implied during BBS that Terra was guided to Destiny Islands to meet Riku, possibly by his own keyblade. I imagine the keyblade chose the next available worthy wielder at the point where Riku chose darkness.

That said, it's never explained why the keyblade eventually chooses Sora for good at Hollow Bastion.
 

Sephiroth0812

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In KHI, it is said that the Keyblade chooses its master. We see this in action when the Kingdom Key chooses Sora over Riku because he had the stronger heart.

However, in BBS, suddenly wielders can essentially force Keyblades to serve whomever they deem is worthy.

Who dislikes this? I dislike this, because it deprives the Keyblades of their mysterious sentience.

For those who like it, I'm interested to hear why.
You have a misconception here.

The Keyblade Ceremony does not "force" Keyblades to "serve" anyone.
Watch the scene where Terra does the ceremony with Riku again:
He holds out the blade and has Riku touch the handle.
By doing that, Terra lets his Keyblade "judge" if Riku has a worthy heart to one day wield a Keyblade himself.
It is also important to notice that both the intended wielder and the wielder granting the ceremony have to hold the Keyblade together at the same time and the granting wielder has to have master-level power (which is why such notions that Sora may have performed a ceremony with Jack Sparrow are false and can't work).

The ceremony is practically nothing but a letter of recommendation to put suitable hearts on "the radar" for a Keyblade as it is still the Keyblade itself that has the last say.
Despite getting the ceremony, Riku didn't immediately get a Keyblade.
It's even written down like this in DDD's glossary:
The heart must be proven before a Keyblade will appear in its master's hand.
and actually shown with Lea, as despite getting the ceremony (either from Yen Sid or Mickey), he didn't get a Keyblade immediately but had to prove himself worthy of one Keyblade choosing him.
Yen Sid even indirectly mentions it:
Yen Sid said:
It's clear you cannot teach a cat to bark. But Merlin and the three good fairies are aiding him in a place that's more...temporally flexible. My hope is that he can at least learn to wield it. He certainly has fire, so I suppose it depends now on how strongly it burns.
"Learning to wield it" can also be read as "prove himself worthy".
It can be assumed that saving Sora from Xehanort and his determination to "keep his promises" are what eventually convince a Keyblade to choose him at the end of DDD.
 

Veritas7340

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I personally prefer the time when Keyblades were presented as choosing wielders without the aid of a ceremony.

Granted, the ceremony does make more sense when put like that.
 

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The ceremoney can be rationalized all one wants its still an unnecessary concept that's only purpose so far has been to force some connection between Terra, Riku, Aqua and Kairi. Sora's situation further proves the superfluous nature.
It was definitely better and fine as it was when the keyblade just chose those at random. You could've even kept the master-teacher relationship with that just by mentioning older masters seek out younger wielders.

Who dislikes this?
*raises hand* I dislike this. Always have and rationalized explanations be damned no amount of trying to explain it away will ever make it unnecessary and outright dumb in my eyes. Defenders of this jargon minds well save your breath.
 

Veritas7340

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The ceremoney can be rationalized all one wants its still an unnecessary concept that's only purpose so far has been to force some connection between Terra, Riku, Aqua and Kairi. Sora's situation further proves the superfluous nature.
It was definitely better and fine as it was when the keyblade just chose those at random. You could've even kept the master-teacher relationship with that just by mentioning older masters seek out younger wielders.


*raises hand* I dislike this. Always have and rationalized explanations be damned no amount of trying to explain it away will ever make it unnecessary and outright dumb in my eyes. Defenders of this jargon minds well save your breath.
I completely agree with this
 

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Sora's situation further proves the superfluous nature.
I'm pretty sure it's actually supposed to highlight Sora's significance as an "ordinary boy" who sort of fell into the role of Keyblade wielder rather than having been chosen like Riku.
It was definitely better and fine as it was when the keyblade just chose those at random.
Even back in KH1, it still wasn't random. It was by strength of heart, and that hasn't changed. It's just that the scope of the "pool of candidates" has become diminished and more controlled.
 

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Even back in KH1, it still wasn't random. It was by strength of heart, and that hasn't changed. It's just that the scope of the "pool of candidates" has become diminished and more controlled.
The strength of heart was always the first and most defining condition that there was. ;)

It isn't even sure that the "pool of candidates" actually got diminished by it as the Keyblade itself still has the last say anyways.
While making sense in-universe, one cannot deny that in meta-terms Incognito's claim that it was introduced to artifically produce a tighter connection between Aqua/Kairi and Terra/Riku has some merit, especially when one looks at the almost ridiculous way Kairi went through the ceremony. By accident? Without Aqua even wanting to do it? Err...I'd say that is pretty weak storytelling.
Furthermore, speaking of Kairi, the connection with Aqua is already made by Aqua saving and interacting with her and then putting that spell on Kairi which comes into play when Ansem SoD throws her out into the Lanes between. The flowers Kairi gives to Aqua as a gift actually turn into a freakin' keychain for Aqua's Keyblade which indicates a connection between hers and Kairi's heart already.
 

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especially when one looks at the almost ridiculous way Kairi went through the ceremony. By accident? Without Aqua even wanting to do it? Err...I'd say that is pretty weak storytelling.
If the act of the ceremony is simply presenting a Keyblade to a potential wielder, for the Keyblade to get a feel for their heart, then I don't see why it happening on accident is any less sensible.
It's all the same to the Keyblade, I'd imagine. It shouldn't matter whether or not it's on purpose or accompanied with some nice words.

It's obvious that Keyblades have a sense of autonomy to them, so if both parties are in contact with the Keyblade, then it could--if it wanted to--conduct the ceremony of its own accord, since it's pretty much all up to the Keyblade regardless.
 

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If the act of the ceremony is simply presenting a Keyblade to a potential wielder, for the Keyblade to get a feel for their heart, then I don't see why it happening on accident is any less sensible.
It's all the same to the Keyblade, I'd imagine. It shouldn't matter whether or not it's on purpose or accompanied with some nice words.

It's obvious that Keyblades have a sense of autonomy to them, so if both parties are in contact with the Keyblade, then it could--if it wanted to--conduct the ceremony of its own accord, since it's pretty much all up to the Keyblade regardless.
Agh, of course, lol.
You certainly got me there.
Didn't think that one fully through at all. It being all the Keyblade's own doing does make sense of it again.
The words Terra babbles are just to make the whole thing more ceremonious anyways (and to impress someone like 5year-old Riku).
 

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I'm pretty sure it's actually supposed to highlight Sora's significance as an "ordinary boy" who sort of fell into the role of Keyblade wielder rather than having been chosen like Riku.
Even back in KH1, it still wasn't random. It was by strength of heart, and that hasn't changed. It's just that the scope of the "pool of candidates" has become diminished and more controlled.
If the act of the ceremony is simply presenting a Keyblade to a potential wielder, for the Keyblade to get a feel for their heart, then I don't see why it happening on accident is any less sensible.
It's all the same to the Keyblade, I'd imagine. It shouldn't matter whether or not it's on purpose or accompanied with some nice words.

It's obvious that Keyblades have a sense of autonomy to them, so if both parties are in contact with the Keyblade, then it could--if it wanted to--conduct the ceremony of its own accord, since it's pretty much all up to the Keyblade regardless.
This is just trying to rationalize. Nothing changes that the story would be the same without it and nothing changes that the only purpose it serves was to force connection and interaction with characters that just meeting eac other would do.
Strong hearts is doesn't change things either because it's obvious prvioulsy that not every strong heart had one regardless of that qualification. (because it had other qualities it seeks that Nomura hasn't disclosed)
Which does in fact make it more random than your thinking.

And finally it doesn't change or emphasize Sora anymore than it did previously because he still gains it on his own through his growth in KH1 from a boy only wanting to find his friends into a person that understands there's a bigger threat that needs stopping.
Soras connections have always been a focus with importance while this concept isn't.

Nothing makes this concept more relevant or necessary. Simply there to force Terra, Riku, Aqua and Kairi.
The whole automated thing is even worse because what's the point in masters intentionally doing it when any joker can run up, touch their keyblade and get lucky like Kairi?
The keyblade is practically spreading itself with that making ceremony even more off basically.

Even the Xblade concept, while iffy to me in areas, still had some necessity because it's the villains goal.
 

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it's obvious prvioulsy that not every strong heart had one regardless of that qualification. (because it had other qualities it seeks that Nomura hasn't disclosed)
Which does in fact make it more random than your thinking.
These mysterious other qualities that Nomura hasn't disclosed that you know about because...? Doesn't the existence of the ceremony fill that nebulous gap of "this strong heart hasn't obtained a Keyblade because [x]"?

And finally it doesn't change or emphasize Sora anymore than it did previously because he still gains it on his own through his growth in KH1
OK, but I don't see how that devalues the additional emphasis that his lack of having inherited a Keyblade provides. Like because something is established, anything bolstering the concept is unnecessary? I'm sorry, but that's not good narrative sense. Following this logic, every single repetition of the "my friends are my power" thing, or Riku's struggle with darkness, is unnecessary. Theming be damned!

This honestly just sounds like you being hellbent on invalidating literally everything about the concept of the Inheritance Ceremony solely on the grounds that you didn't like it.

It's fine that you don't like it. I've got my own gripes about certain story decisions. But to be so adamant and stubborn in your disposition that you attempt to invalidate or simply reject any rhyme or reason for the thing you don't like is... I dunno.
It's kinda lame. Kinda renders a proper discussion impossible.
 

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These mysterious other qualities that Nomura hasn't disclosed that you know about because...? Doesn't the existence of the ceremony fill that nebulous gap of "this strong heart hasn't obtained a Keyblade because [x]"?

OK, but I don't see how that devalues the additional emphasis that his lack of having inherited a Keyblade provides. Like because something is established, anything bolstering the concept is unnecessary? I'm sorry, but that's not good narrative sense. Following this logic, every single repetition of the "my friends are my power" thing, or Riku's struggle with darkness, is unnecessary. Theming be damned!

This honestly just sounds like you being hellbent on invalidating literally everything about the concept of the Inheritance Ceremony solely on the grounds that you didn't like it.

It's fine that you don't like it. I've got my own gripes about certain story decisions. But to be so adamant and stubborn in your disposition that you attempt to invalidate or simply reject any rhyme or reason for the thing you don't like is... I dunno.
It's kinda lame. Kinda renders a proper discussion impossible.
Dude really? I haven't followed interviews in years and even I remember him mentioning that strong hearts are only one quality it seeks. Perhaps Sephiroth0812 knows which interview it's in.
Not really. Your assuming it was something that needs elaboration when it isn't. Even now all the ceremony did was add a second thing it searches for. Exactly what it looks for besides strong hearts isn't known.
Keep in mind kid that the ceremony just shows it to you, the keyblade is still the chooser for whatever it's reasons.

You have no theming sense if you think the ceremony alleviates that. Everything is because of friendship is magic or because Xehanort meddled somehow. The ceremony doesn't change this equation.

In turn your argument sounds like you are trying to validate it solely because you dont like this opinion of mine.
Nothing alters it as unnecessary even if you can make it sensible in your head.
Your not gonna make necessary in mine so you minds well give up and save us both a day long debate.


I'm not the only one adamant. I pointed out in my initial post that trying to rationalize it doesn't do shit for me. I wasn't out for a "proper" discussion because I know it will just end up like an argument because I'm not changing my mind and the other person isn't either. In only here now because you quoted me specifically and then tried to rationalize my opinion. Anyone defends their opinion as its natural.
The point and only fact here is that it's unnecessary. The difference is I don't try to write it off.

As for devalue double check yourself because I never ONCE mentioned devalue. I only argued the concept itself. The fact that the story is the same whether the concept is there or not leaves any debate of value for another topic of the story itself.
Now do us both a favor and just agree to disagree so we don't detail this poor guys thread. I already gotta work and Id rather not argue further when I get home and come back here.
 
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