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Xachrisint

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i would simply like to give light in a popular misconception.

when you are a Heartless it doesn't mean you have no heart. a Heartless IS the heart. heart's become heartless. that explains why the defeating of a heartless would release a heart.

same applies for a NOBODY. the nobody IS the Body. most understand this, but mistake the one about heartless.

if you want evidence for these please refer to the Ansem Reports.
 

helios

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So when a heart is released where does it return that is what i wanna know what if the body is a nobody how does the heart return to its former self.
 

Yoda_Mickey

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Yeah that's why I think if there's a third creature in KH3 it's name will mean the absense of a mind.
 

got_kh2?

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when u destroy a heartless, the heart returns to Kingdom Hearts. and the nobody is the soul AND body. there are only three things that make up a complete being, heart, soul, and body.
 

NEO9011

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Ansem Report 13

When the heart casts off the flesh, where does the body go?

Heart and soul are separate, and the spirit remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.

However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?

If we take that to be the case, there must be a you other than yourself existing somewhere.

An existence neither of darkness nor of light.
An in-between existence.
Cast off by the heart, a mere shell, one who begrudges both the darkness and the light.

This mystery cannot be easily resolved.
The relationship between the heart and the flesh is a complex one.

But since we exist here, they cannot be termed as existent.
Therefore I shall call them...

"The non-existent ones."

Yes, this clearly states the main three components of all normal people in the KH universe. So I doubt any "absent minded" will be showing up soon. There can only be two enemies form what we know about the components, but...

Heart and soul are separate, and the spirit remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

This bit is kind of confusing, because it uses both soul and spirit. It's hard to tell if both words refer to the same thing, and their meanings are very similar, so it's hard to tell if they are different or not. So, if anything, soul would have to be what a different enemy is related to. But I really do think both words refer to that same thing.
 

violent_anger

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NEO9011 said:
Yes, this clearly states the main three components of all normal people in the KH universe. So I doubt any "absent minded" will be showing up soon. There can only be two enemies form what we know about the components, but...



This bit is kind of confusing, because it uses both soul and spirit. It's hard to tell if both words refer to the same thing, and their meanings are very similar, so it's hard to tell if they are different or not. So, if anything, soul would have to be what a different enemy is related to. But I really do think both words refer to that same thing.

mabey this will clear things up for you. when a soul leaves a body, that person dies there is no way around this, the person simply dies when the soul is removed.

and one more thing,

-Ansem's Report 4-
The Heartless appear in groups, and are multiplying rapidly. I've
provided them both living and nonliving samples. They've responded only
to the living. They seem to multiply after absorbing something from the
living creatures. Their prey vanishes without a trace.
I believe the Heartless are taking hearts. They are born from those
who've lost their hearts, and thrive on hearts seized from others. The
hearts taken by the heartless become Heartless themselves.

Though I lack proof, I am confident in this hypothesis. I must also
study their behavioral principles.

Though they lack emotions, they do seem to have some intelligence. How
to communicate with them?

It's just occurred to me: Could they be the darkness in people's
hearts?
 
S

suvre

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hopefully this will help more

the heartless is the darkness in someones heart

they gather the hearts to feed apon and the darkness in someones heart is what they gather inside of them

the nobodys are the shells of people that lose their hearts
 

Americo

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The problem is, just because the Soul left, doesn't explain what happened to it. The person dies but that doesn't explain anything about the Soul. Where does it go? What becomes of it?
 

revengematron3

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There's FOUR components to a person: The body, heart, soul, and SPIRIT.

Ansem Report 13

When the heart casts off the flesh, where does the body go?

Heart and soul are separate, and the spirit remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.

However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?

If we take that to be the case, there must be a you other than yourself existing somewhere.

An existence neither of darkness nor of light.
An in-between existence.
Cast off by the heart, a mere shell, one who begrudges both the darkness and the light.

This mystery cannot be easily resolved.
The relationship between the heart and the flesh is a complex one.

But since we exist here, they cannot be termed as existent.
Therefore I shall call them...

"The non-existent ones."


Also, heartless are those who are born from the darkness of one's heart. Nobodies are made from the soul and body. This means that when someone loses a heart, a heartless and nobody will be made. I probably missed something though. There's a thread that talks about how Namine was made and talks about the whole heartless and nobody thing in more detail with reports and stuff. it's quite interesting but has many spoilers. it's the thread called Kairi and Namine.
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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revengematron3 said:
There's FOUR components to a person: The body, heart, soul, and SPIRIT.

Ansem Report 13

When the heart casts off the flesh, where does the body go?

Heart and soul are separate, and the spirit remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.

However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?

If we take that to be the case, there must be a you other than yourself existing somewhere.

An existence neither of darkness nor of light.
An in-between existence.
Cast off by the heart, a mere shell, one who begrudges both the darkness and the light.

This mystery cannot be easily resolved.
The relationship between the heart and the flesh is a complex one.

But since we exist here, they cannot be termed as existent.
Therefore I shall call them...

"The non-existent ones."

Also, heartless are those who are born from the darkness of one's heart. Nobodies are made from the soul and body. This means that when someone loses a heart, a heartless and nobody will be made. I probably missed something though. There's a thread that talks about how Namine was made and talks about the whole heartless and nobody thing in more detail with reports and stuff. it's quite interesting but has many spoilers. it's the thread called Kairi and Namine.
no spirit and soul are the same thing look at this ansem report
The days spent in that beautiful paradise already seem so far as to be a vision.

How much time has passed in this world of nothingness to which I have been
exiled?
In this world of nothingness where all existence has gone, I have barely managed
to keep myself intact through rage and hatred.

My heart is filled with hatred towards the disciples who were taken by the
darkness, and rage at my own foolish self who was betrayed by them.
Is this what it is like to be taken by the darkness?

I will not continue to pass this time in vain.
What are Xehanort and the others aiming for?
I must work out the mystery of the "Ansem Reports" that man wrote, stop them and
defeat them.
That is my mission...given to me by the world, the only way.

The key is those without a heart, the "Heartless".
Embodiments of the darkness in the heart. Accursed shadows with no hearts who
steal the hearts of all living things and multiply.
Where did they come from, and where are they going?

The three elements that compose life...the heart, the soul, the body.
When life loses the heart, what happens to the leftover soul and body?

When the soul leaves the body, which it lives in as a vessel, life dies.
But if the heart is removed, what happens?

Even if the heart is separated from the body, life is not destroyed.
The heart simply disappears into the darkness.

I have little time.
If I stay in this world indefinitely, will I both have a body and know the
answer?

My heart is already being captured by the darkness.
in the ansem report he says the spirit remains in the body, in the ansem other report he says the soul stays in the body, now lets look at the definition of both of these terms

spirit

The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.

soul

The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.

so in short they are the same thing and the only three parts of the body pertaining to kh2 is the heart, the body, and the soul........the heart is strong enough to live on its own, the soul must need a vessel to reside in order to not disappear, the body needs the soul to power it............the body and the soul cannot seperate or else the soul would just vanish into nowhere and the body would just sit there and be lifeless
 

violent_anger

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uh, if u will look at that thread, u will see that i contributed to it. and mabey i can find somethign...

report 7 clip
When the heart gives birth to a "Heartless", the soul and body that are left behind are born in this world as a new existance. Unlike the Heartless they have consciousness, and though it's uncertain exactly what thoughts "that" entails, it seems they exist to bring confusion to the world.

While the attendants of my old friend, the King, and the Hero of the Keyblade are combatting the Heartless and the threat of Darkness together, a new threat to the world is approaching.

Another threat... For which I've created an ironic name.

"Nobody", the nonexistant ones.

Many Nobodies lose their humanoid form, like the Heartless. However, in the case of a Nobody born from the owner of a strong heart, their appearance will barely change from that of their original humanoid form.

The men who betrayed me seem to have become Nobodies that retained a humanoid form, and furthermore, have begun gathering companions in order carry out some new plan.

edit: oh yeah rikuheroofdarkness, i forgot about that report. but listen to us.
 

Xachrisint

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interesting...

if a person is composed basely off the Heart, the Soul, and the Body, then what would be the purpose of each? remember when you have the ingredients of a person those ingredients have to coexist and contribute to each others existence., eitherwise it would be ok to remove one and still be a person.

the body is a vessel, clear enough. but how about the soul? and foremost the Heart? the connection between body and soul is prominent and is popular as being the components of man.... but the Heart?? it is beyond what i can hypothesize as of now...

...could anyone help me answer these questions?
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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Xachrisint said:
interesting...

if a person is composed basely off the Heart, the Soul, and the Body, then what would be the purpose of each? remember when you have the ingredients of a person those ingredients have to coexist and contribute to each others existence., eitherwise it would be ok to remove one and still be a person.

the body is a vessel, clear enough. but how about the soul? and foremost the Heart? the connection between body and soul is prominent and is popular as being the components of man.... but the Heart?? it is beyond what i can hypothesize as of now...

...could anyone help me answer these questions?
the heart is the component in which a persons emotion and feelings and what-not is done/made and it is where memory is kept, when the heart is taken/seperated from the body, the soul must takeover all these responsibilities of the heart
 

Xachrisint

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hmm...

if that is so then...

when man is only Heart and Body he is dead.
when man is only Soul and Body he is Nobody.

....

it still isn't complete. we must find out the functions of the Heart, the Body, and the Soul. Memory is kept within the heart... if this is so then that would mean two things:

Nobodies have no recollection of their pasts.

Heartless possess the memories...

there are so many cases in Kingdom Hearts 2 that can disprove these but it does seem true for Roxas, Namine, and Xehanort. Roxas and Namine are Nobodies (hypothetically) and they cannot remember their pasts. Xehanort had no memories as well, this might be linked to his name (No Heart X).

another question... if a heart can live on its own (heartless), can the soul as well? this is might be true for Auron who is merely a soul with "borrowed" life, but could it be evident of an Only Soul existence?
 

The_One

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You are forgetting something.... The true heartless do not release hearts when they perish. Only the artificial heartless created from ansems machine. The machine takes the heart and fills it with darkness and it creates a heartless. But for the true heartless the darkness consumes the heart and the heart is sent to kingdom hearts with only the heartless created from it remaining. So the heartless are indeed heartless its just the artificial heartless need a heart to survive.
 

violent_anger

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uh, theres something esle, myinnerfed said that roxas was special becuase sora was only a heartless for a short time, so roxas could not fully develop, and nobodes cdo know there past, if they have a strong heart
rikuheorofdarkness said that the soul carries on the duties of the missing heart, so it also carries the memories of the heart, inother word, when ur a heartless, if ur strong enough, u can transfer your memories in the heart to the soul,
thats why the ogr remembers there past. the tansfer of memories takes time, like the transfer of government files involving elvis to be transfered to my co...nothing
 

Xachrisint

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violent_anger said:
uh, theres something esle, myinnerfed said that roxas was special becuase sora was only a heartless for a short time, so roxas could not fully develop, and nobodes cdo know there past, if they have a strong heart
rikuheorofdarkness said that the soul carries on the duties of the missing heart, so it also carries the memories of the heart, inother word, when ur a heartless, if ur strong enough, u can transfer your memories in the heart to the soul,
thats why the ogr remembers there past. the tansfer of memories takes time, like the transfer of government files involving elvis to be transfered to my co...nothing

so Roxas is basically just a body then.

so hypothetically:
Sora became a heartless once which would mean he was just a heart, in that short time Roxas became the embodiment of the Body and Soul existing like the other org members, but when Sora miraculously returned through the power of Kairi's love (i can't believe i said that...) the soul was taken back by sora, which would mean Sora was only Heart and soul. when this happened Roxas was confiscated of Memories...

it still doesn't make sense to me. it does on a third degree, but it's still incomplete.
 
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