Is the GBA Version Canon



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

Jotari

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
75
Age
25
Re:Chain of Memories made quite a few slight changes to the original story. Ansem defeating Lexeus instead of Riku, how the Replicu died, Marluxia having a third form etc. Do you consider RE:Chain of Memories the only canon version? Or is the original higher in canon? Or should we take a combination of both?
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,222
Location
Germany
  • Cloaked Schemer
  • Taciturn Stalwart
  • Chilly Academic
  • Whirlwind Lancer
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Fairest of them All
Considering that the remasters contain only the Re: Version and are also designated as a preparation for KH III, I would guess that Re: Chain of Memories has to be considered higher in canon.
The GBA version is canon where it goes the same as the Re: Version, but in any instances where they contradict each other, the Re: Version has precedence.

On that note, the same will probably go for Coded and Re: Coded as well.
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
Sadly it would be as Sephiroth0812 described. Kinda a bummer to me though because there was some things about the GBA version I liked better such as Riku taking down Leaxeus.
 

Samhain

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,040
Sadly it would be as Sephiroth0812 described. Kinda a bummer to me though because there was some things about the GBA version I liked better such as Riku taking down Leaxeus.
Agreed

That NEVER made sense to me

Why would Xehanort's Heartless...who IS Xemnas...Who IS Xehanort...kill one of the guys he wants to put his heart into? Makes no sense whatsoever. Especially because Leaxeus was a senior and trustworthy member
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,222
Location
Germany
  • Cloaked Schemer
  • Taciturn Stalwart
  • Chilly Academic
  • Whirlwind Lancer
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Fairest of them All
Agreed

That NEVER made sense to me

Why would Xehanort's Heartless...who IS Xemnas...Who IS Xehanort...kill one of the guys he wants to put his heart into? Makes no sense whatsoever. Especially because Leaxeus was a senior and trustworthy member
Because all the members sent to Castle Oblivion except Vexen where already dismissed as inadequate by the very Xemnas you mentioned? The only one who's demise was not planned according to Xemnas was Vexen because he headed the replica project, as he said in a scene during Days.
During CoM the Xehanort's where still pretty much set on aquiring Riku as a vessel, so Lexaeus was superfluous and Xemnas wouldn't care if he perished.
 

Jotari

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
75
Age
25
But one thing that should be noted, 358/2 Days which was released two years after Re:Chain of Memories uses the Gameboy Advance dialogue for Riku's encounter with Zexion in the snarl of memories scene. Noticing that was what spurred me on to making this thread in the first place.
 

Dandelion

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
3,503
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Keyblade Champion
  • O, Purest of Hearts
  • Key of Destiny
  • Savage Nymph
  • Come So Far
But one thing that should be noted, 358/2 Days which was released two years after Re:Chain of Memories uses the Gameboy Advance dialogue for Riku's encounter with Zexion in the snarl of memories scene. Noticing that was what spurred me on to making this thread in the first place.
Not quite. The dialogue is newly translated in order to better fit with the lip movements.

GBA Chain of Memories said:
Zexion: (appearing) Surely you knew this would happen.
Riku: Why would I know that?!

Zexion: You've been to a number of worlds in your memory before this one. And
in those worlds, you met only dark beings. That's all that's left in
your heart: dark memories. Your memories of home are gone — each and
every one.

Riku: That's a lie! I remember everyone from the islands! Tidus and Selphie and
Wakka...Kairi and Sora, too! They're my...my... They're my friends...

Zexion: And who threw away those friends? Maybe it's your own actions that you forgot. You destroyed your home!
And then:

RE:CoM said:
exion: Surely you knew this would happen.
Riku: !

Zexion: You've been to a number of worlds in your memory before this one. And
in those worlds, you met only dark beings. That's all that's left in your
heart: dark memories. Your memories of home are gone---each and every one.

Riku: That's a lie! I remember everyone from the islands! Tidus and Selphie and
Wakka! Kairi and Sora, too! They're my...my...

(He pauses for a moment and looks down)

Riku: my closest friends...

Zexion: And who threw away those friends? Maybe it's your own actions that
you've forgotten. You destroyed your home!
Neither are exactly like:

Days said:
Zexion (lifting an arm): Surely...you must've known that this was going tohappen.

(Roxas stands stunned)

Riku (lowering his arm): Why would I know?

(Riku walks in from the bridge. Roxas switches his gaze between the two of
them)

Zexion: Because, in your memory, you've been to a number of worlds before you
came to this one And of course, in those worlds, the only beings you met were the dark kind.

(The world starts to flash and fade. Roxas clutches his head in agony)

Zexion/Riku: That's all that's left in your heart: the darkest of memories.
Your memories of home are gone---every one.

(Roxas falls to his knees. He thrusts out a hand to catch his fall and the
flashes get more intense)

Zexion/Riku: That's a lie! I remember everyone from the islands!

(Xion continues to clutch her head in pain)

Zexion/Riku: They're my...my...my closest friends...

(She falls to her side)

Zexion/Riku: And who threw away those friends? Maybe it's your own actions
you've forgotten. It was you who destroyed your home!
 

Jotari

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
75
Age
25
Not quite. The dialogue is newly translated in order to better fit with the lip movements.
Ah, just had a look at the scene again, now I understand my confusion. I was watching all the cutscenes of Re: Chain of Memories the other day bit the uploader didn't show any of the unvoiced ones. I thought the scene had been rewritten to only include the voice acted but removing all the implications of Riku meeting dark beings and forgetting his friends.
 
Last edited:

Samhain

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,040
Because all the members sent to Castle Oblivion except Vexen where already dismissed as inadequate by the very Xemnas you mentioned? The only one who's demise was not planned according to Xemnas was Vexen because he headed the replica project, as he said in a scene during Days.
During CoM the Xehanort's where still pretty much set on aquiring Riku as a vessel, so Lexaeus was superfluous and Xemnas wouldn't care if he perished.
Where did you get this from?

I thought Xemnas sent Larxene and Marluxia to meet their deaths, and he sent his trustworthy senior members; Zexion, Vexen, and Laexeus to go out and keep an eye on them if they were suspicious. Xemnas didn't plan for Zexion to die. Axel killed him because of Saix.

It still doesn't make sense on disposing Laexeus. That's why the GBA version was better...with Riku killing him himself, not because of XH
 

Jotari

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
75
Age
25
Axel was also sent there and from what we know, at the time before he made a bond with Roxas and Xion, he was considered a very trusted member of the Organisation. The guy sent to do their "icky jobs". He had none of the failings Xehanort mentioned, weakness of body, will or trust. In terms of body he was close in power to Marluxia who is one of the strongest members of the Organisation. Not sure precisely what Will was meant to suggest, willingness to be evil perhaps or willingness to do work (ie not be Demyx). Either way he was good. And as I said they trusted him with all their important jobs like taking down the traitors (taking down Vexen was something he was inducted to do by Saix but you can hardly say that was something that made him bad as a vessel since Saix himself made a perfectly fine vessel). At that point in the series Axel there was no reason to dispose Axel. Unless you mean Xemnas sent everyone but Axel there and knew Axel would just happen to survive when the others didn't. In which case there were two out of six members sent there who weren't planned to die which puts the entire useless vessel's club in doubt.
 
Last edited:

Samhain

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,040
Axel was also sent there and from what we know, at the time before he made a bond with Roxas and Xion, he was considered a very trusted member of the Organisation. The guy sent to do their "icky jobs" and had none of the failings Xehanort mentioned, weakness of body, will or trust.
Axel did in KHII

But none of the apprentices in Castle Oblivion were not weakness of body, will, or trust. They were very loyal.
 

Jotari

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
75
Age
25
Axel did in KHII

But none of the apprentices in Castle Oblivion were not weakness of body, will, or trust. They were very loyal.
I reckon Vexen could have fallen into the weakness of body category. He didn't seem like the most physically threatening of the Organisation. Of course weakness of body could be interpreted as Xehanort saying he failed to make vessels because they died before the process was completed meaning all the apprentices in Castle Oblivion would have fallen into that category. Still I don't think that means it was all planned to kill them off. There's really no reason to kill them off even if they are failed vessels. It's still loyal subjects that can do some heavy lifting (or make clones). Certainly he planned to have Marluxia and Larxene killed off but that's precisely because they weren't loyal.
 

WaveK89

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
836
Age
29
I'm not really sure Vexen would have been used as a vessel. It seems like Xemnas merely wanted him to successfully create adequate replicas to use as vessels. I suppose Vexen could have been used as a vessel, but I just don't see it as necessary if he was still around to continue the replica project.
 

Dandelion

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
3,503
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • Keyblade Champion
  • O, Purest of Hearts
  • Key of Destiny
  • Savage Nymph
  • Come So Far
Where did you get this from?

I thought Xemnas sent Larxene and Marluxia to meet their deaths, and he sent his trustworthy senior members; Zexion, Vexen, and Laexeus to go out and keep an eye on them if they were suspicious. Xemnas didn't plan for Zexion to die. Axel killed him because of Saix.

It still doesn't make sense on disposing Laexeus. That's why the GBA version was better...with Riku killing him himself, not because of XH
Riku didn't kill him in the original Reverse Rebirth though, Riku defeated him in battle but Lexaeus vindictively offed himself in order to drag Riku into the darkness.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Xehanort's Heartless to off Lexaeus, but there are ways to reconcile this with the canon. For one thing, the original roster of the Organization was out of the question. Vexen had already been destroyed and Xemnas hadn't anticipated that, but I'm sure Xehanort sensed it. Zexion, although higher up in the Organization, was apparently having some doubts about what Xemnas was up to shortly before being moved to Castle Oblivion. I think even Xemnas foresaw this happening and may have even turned a blind eye to it.

I agree with Zotari, though, all the members at Castle Oblivion were capable of being traitorous or being beaten by the Keyblade hero...and Riku. (Of course the same ended up being true for most of the other members as well)
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
But none of the apprentices in Castle Oblivion were not weakness of body, will, or trust. They were very loyal.
Loyal? You think Marluxia and Larxene were loyal? You thought Zexion, who relies on schemes and illusions, was strong of body? xD
The exact reason they were sent there was because some of them (namely Marluxia & Larxene) weren't loyal and thus fell into one of Xehanort's three categories of weakness.

Zexion and Vexen weren't intended but Xemnas obviously didn't care that Zexion in the very least was gone. So he couldn't have have been that valuable to him either.
And while Vexen had value with his replicas, Xemnas didn't seem to find his demise that great a loss since he had both Roxas and Xion already.
 

Jotari

New member
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Messages
75
Age
25
Another explanation is that Ansem didn't have full control over Riku's body yet. He couldn't just say "Hey Lexeus, it's me man. Put down that Axe, I got this whole thing under control." He was just using Riku to defend himself since it looked like Riku couldn't do it himself. Him being Ansem of course just naturally looked like a smug git doing it.

Loyal? You think Marluxia and Larxene were loyal? You thought Zexion, who relies on schemes and illusions, was strong of body? xD
The exact reason they were sent there was because some of them (namely Marluxia & Larxene) weren't loyal and thus fell into one of Xehanort's three categories of weakness.
They said all the apprentices were loyal. Namely Vexen, Zexion and Lexeaus.
 

Samhain

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,040
"Weakness of Trust"
And yet....Saix planned to take over the Organization and betray Xemnas with Axel even during KH 358/2 Days, and yet he became a Xehanort?

Makes no sense. Xaldin was much more trust worthy than Saix...so was Lex, Vexen, and Zexion. They were all more trust worthy than Saix and none of them were used. What is the excuse for Xaldin? He had no weakness of trust...he followed Xehanort to the end...he had no weakness of will....he was the only member who didn't want his heart back and likes it better without one, and weakness of body? Xaldin was considered one of the strongest members in the organization

It's just a big contradiction after another to be honest
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
"Weakness of Trust"
And yet....Saix planned to take over the Organization and betray Xemnas with Axel even during KH 358/2 Days, and yet he became a Xehanort?

Makes no sense. Xaldin was much more trust worthy than Saix...so was Lex, Vexen, and Zexion. They were all more trust worthy than Saix and none of them were used. What is the excuse for Xaldin? He had no weakness of trust...he followed Xehanort to the end...he had no weakness of will....he was the only member who didn't want his heart back and likes it better without one, and weakness of body? Xaldin was considered one of the strongest members in the organization

It's just a big contradiction after another to be honest
You can't contradict what isn't bluntly confirmed.

Given Saix's eyes and ears, it's likely his nortification was already so far along that he wasn't a concern for Xemnas. Could just take control of his mind if he tried something for real.

Keep in mind that I did say "some" when mentioning those sent to CO. Vexen wasn't expected and it's unlikely he expected Lexeaus or Zexion to fall either.
Xaldin has nothing to do with this topic as it's about CO of which Xaldin dind't go to. It's also not known were he stood with Xehanort, for all we know he could very well be one of the "surprise" vessels of KH3 given he and Vexen were still "unstable" in DDD.

The whole "weakness of body, will and loyalty" was Xemnas just naming off a few that wasn't suited in his eyes to be vessels.
Who exactly he's referring to in it's entirety isn't said. We know loyalty means Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas and by KH2 Axel.
Weakness of body could be either Vexen or Zexion but since Vexen was unexpected it's likely it didn't apply to Vexen and there's no confirming it meant Zexion either.
Weakness of Will could be Demyx but again nothing outright said.

Aside from the obvious betrayers there's nothing really saying who Xemnas is referring to when he names those categories.
They said all the apprentices were loyal. Namely Vexen, Zexion and Lexeaus.
Who said? From what I recall it's never been said by official places that every member was a loyal one.
From what we seen in CO those three obviously were loyal. They wanted Riku in order to counter Marluxia's traitorous plan.
Marluxia & Larxene have never been shown to be loyal.
 
Last edited:

Samhain

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,040
Who said? From what I recall it's never been said by official places that every member was a loyal one.
From what we seen in CO those three obviously were loyal. They wanted Riku in order to counter Marluxia's traitorous plan.
Marluxia & Larxene have never been shown to be loyal.
He means apprentices as in the first 6 who were all loyal

Xehanort, Braig, Xaldin, Vexen, Laexeus, Zexion were all loyal members to the very end. There is nothing in the games that show otherwise. Why Xehanort didn't care that any of them died is beyond me. Xaldin, and Lex were very powerful...
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
He means apprentices as in the first 6 who were all loyal

Xehanort, Braig, Xaldin, Vexen, Laexeus, Zexion were all loyal members to the very end. There is nothing in the games that show otherwise. Why Xehanort didn't care that any of them died is beyond me. Xaldin, and Lex were very powerful...
I see so he means just those six. Well they all were loyal yes but that doesn't mean they were all of strong will and body.

Xemnas obviously wanted more than just power and even still we don't know who are seekers and who aren't. We know of a few but the majority isn't stated so for all we know some of the original six are qualified and now vessels.

Dilan and Even were said to still be "unstable" in DDD. Could be them changing into Xehanorts. There's nothing defined yet on who's on Xehanort's side and who isn't so it's a bit soon to be calling contradictions and what not on the whole matter.
 
Top