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IS Terra Xemnas or Xehanort in control the whole time?



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OathkeeperRoxas XIII

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Normally making threads is not something I do all the time, but I want to know.


After going through KH2, Days, BBS, and now the Japanese version of Dream Drop Distance, do you honestly believe Xemnas is Terra? Before you say about the obivous agruements about

He has Aqua's armor and Keyblade
He called it old friend
He knows Ven through Roxas
Terra said 'Whatever the cost, I'm willing to take it"
etc

Ask yourself this: Why would Terra do these things

Create replicas, make Roxas and Xion collect hearts, harm innocent worlds and people, almost killed Sora and co? Use 12 other members, and now lie to them about their hearts as they slowly become Xehanort? And for what, to fuse with KH and become a god like being?


Does that sound like Terra?

The reason I'm asking, if you want to know the full details why, I'll PM you the message, but this thread is open for discussion and thoughts.

So?
 

Genocide

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No.
The fusion of the two became complete and made AX.
However Terra and MX were still existant inside of him.

When they split, Xemnas and ASoD were born.
They both are AX. However they both [Xemnas in particlar] gained memories of both.
 

Straythe

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What is sure is that it's not just Xehanort, after BBS, Nomura said who was in control was yet to be seen and that it would be showed in a future game, that it was an important component of the story. Which would be pointless if it's just Xehanort.

I made a tread about Terra explaining why he was still there.

- MX said Terra was meant to become his vessel. The striking resemblance between Terra and young Xehanort seems to prove it was. Who was Terra ?

- Terra tried to use the darkness to bring back their friends and fell too deep, altering his mind ?

- He purged Terranort's darkness for a while, he kept it at bay. An unknown event happened and he turned evil again ( was he trying to look for Aqua in the darkness ? ) though Terranort refused to call himself Xehanort ( because of Terra ? ) but was getting mad in the process ( took ansem's name ).

Also, Terranort was supposed to be back, but since Xemnas and Ansem are here, that means they've been taken before they were destroyed. Does that cancel Terranort's comeback ?

Anyway the BBS secret ending proved Terra didn't just disappear.
 

Straythe

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Terranort was neither Terra nor Xehanort, it would be possible Xemnas just Had the same crazy mind. Maybe there's going to be some change in him if he really meets Aqua ( she was the one who helped Terra gaining more and more control ). He only grew one heart back, I wonder which. Maybe there's going to be a surprise.

Also, even though we saw the worst of him, doesn't mean we've seen everything.

Just like we all thought Terranort never stopped being evil and ended up destroying radiant garden, we now learned there's more to it.

Maybe Terra prevented Xemnas to do something even worst, who knows.

Also remember most nobodies were evil no matter what at first, having MX too doesn't help.
 

Nayru's Love

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I don't think Terra ever had any actual control over any form of Xehanort. Maybe he could prevent Terranort from moving, or give any form of Xehanort his memories, but I doubt Terra consciously controlled any of the forms. That's what I expect when your mind is inside of a LS.

As for Xemnas, he always seemed more MX-oriented. Complex plans, cold-hearted attitude, THE HAND GESTURES...It adds up.
 

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Terra's emotions lingered in Xemnas but Xehanort was the dominant force in most of Xemnas's actions. When he was asking for the chamber in Castle Oblivion that was not doubt Terra.
 

Nayru's Love

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Terra's emotions lingered in Xemnas but Xehanort was the dominant force in most of Xemnas's actions.
Still rather speculative, if you ask me. For all we know, all that anger and hatred could have been from AX from the start.

When he was asking for the chamber in Castle Oblivion that was not doubt Terra.
Except we never found out what exactly Xemnas wanted to do with the CoW, so we can't say for sure.
 

Straythe

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That's what I expect when your mind is inside of a LS.

Geez... That again ?

Terra's story ended : Oh wow his mind is inside LS.

Epilogue : Oh Wow he was still inside hiw own body ! I guess Xehanort got rid of him when he used the keyblade on himself though....

Secret ending : Oh so thanks to Eraqus, Terra was able to save himself and fight back. Also, Terranort lost all signs of darkness a few months after his arrival, and Braig himself starts to wonder if Terra is getting the upper hand.

I assume you missed those MAJOR points right ?

And Ansem SoD was acting like some sort of Terranort mixed with the true Xehanort... I guess Xemnas is Terranort mixed with Terra.
 

Nayru's Love

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Epilogue : Oh Wow he was still inside hiw own body ! I guess Xehanort got rid of him when he used the keyblade on himself though....

As far as I'm concerned, your mind is what connects you to the outside world. When we saw Riku trying to resist XH in KH1, we actually saw Riku's "spirit," so to speak. We never got that from Terra.

Secret ending : Oh so thanks to Eraqus, Terra was able to save himself and fight back. Also, Terranort lost all signs of darkness a few months after his arrival, and Braig himself starts to wonder if Terra is getting the upper hand.

Like I said, outside world. Terra can influence AX's decisions, but that's not Terra making them in the end.

And Ansem SoD was acting like some sort of Terranort mixed with the true Xehanort... I guess Xemnas is Terranort mixed with Terra.

All forms of Xehanort seem more MX-oriented; rarely do I ever see any influence from Terra.
 

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I remember Terra outside of his body helping Aqua to defeat his possessed body.

Obviously it was his spirit. I couldn't care less if it's not the same effect they used for Riku (they change stuff in every game, just like the Yellow eyes Terra had in the BBS secret video were removed since it is no longer associated to darkness, but to Xehanort himself)
 

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I remember Terra outside of his body helping Aqua to defeat his possessed body.

Uh...That sure as hell wasn't outside of his body. Or the outside world.

Obviously it was his spirit. I couldn't care less if it's not the same effect they used for Riku (they change stuff in every game, just like the Yellow eyes Terra had in the BBS secret video were removed since it is no longer associated to darkness, but to Xehanort himself)

Concept videos are very different from the final product. KH is a series where minor details like "whether or not a spirit is there (or in this case, the outside world)" can have important implications.
 

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Uh...That sure as hell wasn't outside of his body. Or the outside world.
Aqua does not have the ability to enter Terra's body. So obviously if i'm wrong so are you, it's something else.

By the way, before Xehanort uses his keyblade to get rid of Terra, isn't Terra actually saying "Get out of my Heart !" (since it's the culminating point where Xehanort loses more and more control)

Anyway has it been stated ANYWHERE that the LS is Terra's link to this world ? It kinda doesn't seem relevant... LS is just something he used to try to stop Xehanort, it's not really what was left of him you know. LS didn't exist when Xehanort took his body, it's when Terra "mind-chained" Xehanort that he created the LS.

I don't see why / how he could be trapped inside the LS. If anything, he's trapped, as illustrated several times in the epilogue and secret endings, in his own body.

Concept videos are very different from the final product. KH is a series where minor details like "whether or not a spirit is there (or in this case, the outside world)" can have important implications.

But it's ridiculous. His body is being controlled, of course he's not gonna show up in the outside world >_> Having Terra and MX speaking in his body should be enough to prove his spirit is in there. And BTW, Terranort never acted the way Xehanort acted when he got the body, so it kinda proves MX is also trapped within the body as long as the two of them were fighting. (and where was MX's spirit then ? In Terra's body ? But he was having the exact same problem Terra was having so they shouldn't be any different...)
 

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Uh...That sure as hell wasn't outside of his body. Or the outside world.

Concept videos are very different from the final product. KH is a series where minor details like "whether or not a spirit is there" (or in this case, the outside world) can have important implications.

I would rather assume that this sequence where Terra and Aqua fight the guardian together is somewhere inside the shared heart-fusion of MX and Terra.

It was surely not mind/spirit-projection like we saw with Riku in KH1 (and Naminé & Roxas in KH2 when they projected their spirits from within Sora and Kairi).

It's somewhat iffy though, if Terra's mind and spirit is in the LS, who the heck is conversing with MX in the secret ending? As far as I remember the LS does not have Terra's entire mind inside that armor.
It's just filled with thoughts and some feelings of Terra and controlled/animated remotely by his mind/spirit.
 

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Aqua does not have the ability to enter Terra's body. So obviously if i'm wrong so are you, it's something else.

By the way, before Xehanort uses his keyblade to get rid of Terra, isn't Terra actually saying "Get out of my Heart !" (since it's the culminating point where Xehanort loses more and more control)

Anyway has it been stated ANYWHERE that the LS is Terra's link to this world ? It kinda doesn't seem relevant... LS is just something he used to try to stop Xehanort, it's not really what was left of him you know. LS didn't exist when Xehanort took his body, it's when Terra "mind-chained" Xehanort that he created the LS.

I don't see why / how he could be trapped inside the LS. If anything, he's trapped, as illustrated several times in the epilogue and secret endings, in his own body.

Wow, I can't get over how wrong you are. Terra's mind is PROVEN to exist within LS. Or at least his fighting spirit.
 

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Wow, I can't get over how wrong you are. Terra's mind is PROVEN to exist within LS. Or at least his fighting spirit.

"I'll never give up, I'll do whatever it takes", I call that a fighting spirit, you know, the thing he demonstrated while talking to Xehanort inside of his body.

What is proven exactly ? If I'm wrong then obviously I missed something, instead of claming I am without giving any of the said proof, you could try to explain your point.
 

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Aqua does not have the ability to enter Terra's body. So obviously if i'm wrong so are you, it's something else.

Overall, it's pretty ambiguous as to what the hell's happening in that particular part of the fight. Between Terra's unusual presence and the unreal atmosphere, I'll let you be the judge of that.

By the way, before Xehanort uses his keyblade to get rid of Terra, isn't Terra actually saying "Get out of my Heart !" (since it's the culminating point where Xehanort loses more and more control)

BBS Timeline claims that MX is the one in control.

Anyway has it been stated ANYWHERE that the LS is Terra's link to this world ? It kinda doesn't seem relevant... LS is just something he used to try to stop Xehanort, it's not really what was left of him you know. LS didn't exist when Xehanort took his body, it's when Terra "mind-chained" Xehanort that he created the LS.

It's more of a thing where Terra's mind in LS would make a hell of a lot more sense than Terra's mind controlling any of the Xehanorts.

I don't see why / how he could be trapped inside the LS. If anything, he's trapped, as illustrated several times in the epilogue and secret endings, in his own body.
He's trapped in his own body because he's almost useless without his mind.

It's somewhat iffy though, if Terra's mind and spirit is in the LS, who the heck is conversing with MX in the secret ending? As far as I remember the LS does not have Terra's entire mind inside that armor.
It's just filled with thoughts and some feelings of Terra and controlled/animated remotely by his mind/spirit.

While I wouldn't associate Terra's and MX's conversation with an Awakening, Vanitas has gone to show that you can be conscious in the real world, all the while still be in an Awakening.
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

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"I'll never give up, I'll do whatever it takes", I call that a fighting spirit, you know, the thing he demonstrated while talking to Xehanort inside of his body.

What is proven exactly ? If I'm wrong then obviously I missed something, instead of claming I am without giving any of the said proof, you could try to explain your point.

I suggest explaining a little. It's like saying Xemnas is a tragic Villain but how sfter what we know.
 

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BBS Timeline claims that MX is the one in control.

It's more of a thing where Terra's mind in LS would make a hell of a lot more sense than Terra's mind controlling any of the Xehanorts.

He's trapped in his own body because he's almost useless without his mind.

While I wouldn't associate Terra's and MX's conversation with an Awakening, Vanitas has gone to show that you can be conscious in the real world, all the while still being in an Awakening.

Yeah, it's also obvious as MX says "This'll teach you, get out of my heart."
It's exactly like with Ansem SoD and Riku in KH1. The moment the possessor realizes he can't fully subdue the other heart in question, he tries to ditch it.
Ansem SoD succeeded, MX due to unknown circumstances didn't (could have to do with Eraqus, but that's speculation).

That may be one reason, the other may simply be that Xehanort's will is simply that much stronger. Terra's will is strong enough to prevent being fully enslaved, but not to shake off Xehanort's control.
It's similar as with Ventus and Vanitas. Ven resisted being fully taken over, causing the X-blade to be incomplete, yet Vanitas still managed to control his body and Ven couldn't fully shake off Vanitas' control without help from Aqua.

It could be an awakening, a darkened one without a picture due to several hearts in the mix that fight for dominance.
But you're correct, Vanitas could split the attention of his consciousness in the final battle.
 

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Overall, it's pretty ambiguous as to what the hell's happening in that particular part of the fight. Between Terra's unusual presence and the unreal atmosphere, I'll let you be the judge of that.
Just as unusual as the Ls / Terranort battle. Whatever it is, we can all agree it represents Terra fighting from the inside, showing that his will is STILL inside the body.


BBS Timeline claims that MX is the one in control.
Indeed. Though by rewatching the scene, when the lights comes out of his body, Xehanort seems to lose control almost completely (and the light goes off right after he used the keyblade).

KH Birth By Sleep Final Episode Ending English Part 1/2 Kingdom hearts Walkthrough Part 55 PSP - YouTube

While Terra did not speak, I think it's safe to say he's the one who "blocked" Xehanort (since he can't move for a little while).

If Xehanort hadn't used the keyblade, isn't it safe to assume Terra would have gained much more control ? If he's fighting back, what would happen if he won ? Kinda seems impossible if he's in LS.



It's more of a thing where Terra's mind in LS would make a hell of a lot more sense than Terra's mind controlling any of the Xehanorts.
The "mind" doesn't really mean anything, it's basically the heart. We don't know what happened to Terra's heart, it's obviously NOT in LS (might have been in Riku since Ansem SoD took over him, and this Ansem had MX and Terra's heart right ?).

That's what makes more sense though, he's neither in LS (I repeat that thing is just Terra using his power to control the armor, even though he left some of his will inside, it's not really Terra... he wouldn't show up in the epilogue and secret ending otherwise) nor the other Xehanorts...

I still wonder what is the kind of heart Xemnas grew back, though. As you guys pointed out, Aqua seemed to help Terra and Ven with their "dark passenger", maybe she could make Xemnas understand he's wrong and he's actually not the one he thinks he is.


He's trapped in his own body because he's almost useless without his mind.
Xehanort started with 100% control of the body. Before he used the keyblade on himself, he could barely move. I'm not calling that "useless".



While I wouldn't associate Terra's and MX's conversation with an Awakening, Vanitas has gone to show that you can be conscious in the real world, all the while still be in an Awakening.
That's interesting. Actually, I think Riku and Ansem SoD have a similar conversation in a similar place in 3D .

What bothers me is that Xehanort gave up on Riku because his heart was in the end not full of darkness. But isn't it EXACTLY the same with Terra ? He made the error but (thanks to Eraqus) was able to use light again and fight back. He forced Xehanort to seal both of their hearts (or something, causing the memory loss), I find it hard to believe he's not giving up on Terra too ...


He gives up on Riku, but Terra who shares a similar story is considered on his side ? This info coupled with Nomura's "who was in control is an important element we will talk about in a future game" is kinda weird.
 
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