Interesting things in the manga and novels



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

KeybladeGuy

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
140
Awards
1
  • Ninja'd
Perhaps they figured seeing Jack and the rest of the Halloween Town cast in anime form wouldn't fit.

I knew about Deep Jungle being removed due to Licensing.... I really hate it considering Deep Jungle was another favorite of mine.
 

Taochan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
12,004
Awards
26
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
  • Superior of the In-Between
  • Fairest of them All
  • Nose Stuck in a Book
  • Flix and Chill
That was one of the things I didn't really understand anyways. Why didn't Amano finish KH2 first and then started with Days?

I think it is without question that KH 2 was released first and holds more importance storywise than Days.
To be honest, I think he was bored with KH2.
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
Awards
4
  • Quack Attack
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Rising Star
  • Keyblade Master
That was one of the things I didn't really understand anyways. Why didn't Amano finish KH2 first and then started with Days?

I think it is without question that KH 2 was released first and holds more importance storywise than Days.
imo, I think he did it for writing purposes. Writing prequels is tricky business and I've heard people go as far as say "there is no such thing as a good prequel". With Days, he had some control over that. It upsets and confuses a lot of people, but personally I think it was a smart move to complete the story that was supposed to be a prequel first and get all the important plot points out the way, then continue with the story that's supposed to be a direct continuation of Days and make call backs if need be without it looking like Amano is pulling stuff out his ass.

e.g., while KH gives the reason as to why Xion is never mentioned in KH2 is because everyone forgot her, it still bugs me that there was no foreshadowing in any way, shape, or form. Nomura had "an idea" about Xion while working on KH2, but he either didn't give it any serious thought until the game was finished or for some reason didn't see a need to implement any foreshadowing. Either way, it kind of feels pulled out of left field to have suddenly introduced a new character from the past that was apparently super-duper best friends with Roxas and had a huge impact on his life to only not have a scrap of evidence she ever existed.

With the Days manga completed first, Amano can avoid those little hiccups.
 
Last edited:

KeybladeGuy

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
140
Awards
1
  • Ninja'd
I do look forward to the BBS manga when it comes out. BBS maybe my third favorite game, with 2 being my favorite, followed by 1, then BBS.

I played each world's music while reading the respective chapters.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,224
Awards
26
Location
Germany
  • Cloaked Schemer
  • Taciturn Stalwart
  • Chilly Academic
  • Whirlwind Lancer
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Fairest of them All
To be honest, I think he was bored with KH2.
Lol, I have to admit that I also get bored with KH2, although that has to do more with gameplay reasons and several Disney world-stories (Beast's Castle and Space Paranoids being the honorable exceptions) being nothing but filler that do not add anything to the main story.
To discover (by virtue of the novels, despite them being secondary canon) that Riku, Naminé, Axel and Mickey did quite some interesting stuff behind the scenes during KH 2, Riku even having a sort of "debate" with Xemnas at one point while the game just follows SDG doing some fool's errands in Disney worlds didn't help the issue as well.

imo, I think he did it for writing purposes. Writing prequels is tricky business and I've heard people go as far as say "there is no such thing as a good prequel". With Days, he had some control over that. It upsets and confuses a lot of people, but personally I think it was a smart move to complete the story that was supposed to be a prequel first and get all the important plot points out the way, then continue with the story that's supposed to be a direct continuation of Days and make call backs if need be without it looking like Amano is pulling stuff out his ass.

e.g., while KH gives the reason as to why Xion is never mentioned in KH2 is because everyone forgot her, it still bugs me that there was no foreshadowing in any way, shape, or form. Nomura had "an idea" about Xion while working on KH2, but he either didn't gave it any serious thought until the game was finished or for some reason didn't see a need to implement any foreshadowing. Either way, it kind of feels pulled out of left field to have suddenly introduced a new character from the past that was apparently super-duper best friends with Roxas and had a huge impact on his life to only not have a scrap of evidence she ever existed.

With the Days manga completed first, Amano can avoid those little hiccups.
The main problem I see with prequels is when they are added later and weren't planned beforehand. If an author knows there will be a prequel later (like Nomura claimed that he already had plans for BBS when working on KH 2) the foreshadowing that is necessary to make it more believeable can be added on purpose.
Days is actually an example of a not so well thought out prequel, which goes hand in hand with the statement that while Nomura did think about revealing Roxas' story one day, he didn't have any concrete plans in his head unlike with BBS.
I don't remember where it was stated, but I do recall that Nomura said somewhere that while KH 2 was still in development, the only story that was planned to follow KH 2 was BBS with Days and Coded being added later on.
Wasn't Xion as a character a brainchild of Tomoco Kanemaki anyways and Nomura just decided to ride with it because he found the concept "interesting" and it fitted with one of his early brainstorming ideas that Roxas would be "influenced by a girl his age" during his time in the Organisation?

True dat, and while Amano's manga really goes sometimes over the top with the comedy (compared to the games), he manages to weave the story together better and flesh out many of the characters' personalities and emotions way more than any of the games has so far, although that may also because of the medium in use.
 

blksabbath74

New member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
629
Awards
0
Age
44
Location
Birmingham AL
To discover (by virtue of the novels, despite them being secondary canon) that Riku, Naminé, Axel and Mickey did quite some interesting stuff behind the scenes during KH 2, Riku even having a sort of "debate" with Xemnas at one point while the game just follows SDG doing some fool's errands in Disney worlds didn't help the issue as well.
Okay, I keep hearing about these novels, but can't find them on Amazon. I can only find the manga. Can someone point me in the right direction? I like reading the manga with my daughter, but the written word is more in my wheelhouse.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,224
Awards
26
Location
Germany
  • Cloaked Schemer
  • Taciturn Stalwart
  • Chilly Academic
  • Whirlwind Lancer
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Fairest of them All
The novels are only available in Japan, there exist no English or otherwise localized version.

If you want to read the novels, you have to resort to fan translations, like the ones fellow KHI-member goldpanner does.
There is a sticky thread for these in some subforum here.
EDIT:
Found the thread:
KH Novels
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
Awards
4
  • Quack Attack
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Rising Star
  • Keyblade Master
Lol, I have to admit that I also get bored with KH2, although that has to do more with gameplay reasons and several Disney world-stories (Beast's Castle and Space Paranoids being the honorable exceptions) being nothing but filler that do not add anything to the main story.
To discover (by virtue of the novels, despite them being secondary canon) that Riku, Naminé, Axel and Mickey did quite some interesting stuff behind the scenes during KH 2, Riku even having a sort of "debate" with Xemnas at one point while the game just follows SDG doing some fool's errands in Disney worlds didn't help the issue as well.



The main problem I see with prequels is when they are added later and weren't planned beforehand. If an author knows there will be a prequel later (like Nomura claimed that he already had plans for BBS when working on KH 2) the foreshadowing that is necessary to make it more believeable can be added on purpose.
Days is actually an example of a not so well thought out prequel, which goes hand in hand with the statement that while Nomura did think about revealing Roxas' story one day, he didn't have any concrete plans in his head unlike with BBS.
I don't remember where it was stated, but I do recall that Nomura said somewhere that while KH 2 was still in development, the only story that was planned to follow KH 2 was BBS with Days and Coded being added later on.
Wasn't Xion as a character a brainchild of Tomoco Kanemaki anyways and Nomura just decided to ride with it because he found the concept "interesting" and it fitted with one of his early brainstorming ideas that Roxas would be "influenced by a girl his age" during his time in the Organisation?

True dat, and while Amano's manga really goes sometimes over the top with the comedy (compared to the games), he manages to weave the story together better and flesh out many of the characters' personalities and emotions way more than any of the games has so far, although that may also because of the medium in use.
Exactly, one needs to be very careful when making prequels and there just didn't seem to be enough planning ahead when they decided to make Days. So I'm totally in compliance with Amano getting it out of the way first. Although, it does make me more curious as to what he'll do with BbS. He does take his own route with the story sometimes so I'm sure he'll find a way to work with it. From what I recall, Xion was Nomura's idea, Kanemaki fell in love with the concept of her and pretty much made Xion her own, and Nomura just rolled with it because for better or for worse he's very open to other's ideas. e.g., if I recall right Xion was originally intended to be a personal antagonist to Roxas who followed him around, akin to Vanitas onto Ven I think, but Kanemaki insisted that she be a protagonist instead who was friends with Roxas.

That's the benefit of working on a story after the fact. While Amano's take on KH can be weird sometimes, he at least can look back at the games, try to recognize flaws or areas that need work, and try to fix them. e.g., I actually like the manga iteration of Kairi better than the game version. Although, that's a bit of a double edged sword because it's partly due to Kairi having even less character in the KH1 manga, but Amano has been trying fix that in the KH2 manga. And being more successful at it imo.

Okay, I keep hearing about these novels, but can't find them on Amazon. I can only find the manga. Can someone point me in the right direction? I like reading the manga with my daughter, but the written word is more in my wheelhouse.
What Sephy said~

Although, Yen Press has expressed interest in the KH novels if there's enough interest in it.
 

Taochan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
12,004
Awards
26
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue
  • Superior of the In-Between
  • Fairest of them All
  • Nose Stuck in a Book
  • Flix and Chill
Lol, I have to admit that I also get bored with KH2, although that has to do more with gameplay reasons and several Disney world-stories (Beast's Castle and Space Paranoids being the honorable exceptions) being nothing but filler that do not add anything to the main story.
To discover (by virtue of the novels, despite them being secondary canon) that Riku, Naminé, Axel and Mickey did quite some interesting stuff behind the scenes during KH 2, Riku even having a sort of "debate" with Xemnas at one point while the game just follows SDG doing some fool's errands in Disney worlds didn't help the issue as well.
It's not that I'm saying KH2 is boring, it's more that Amano had been working on KH2 for a couple of years at that point. The KH2 manga is the longest out of all of the KH manga, so he probably needed to step away from Sora & co. for a little while.

Roxas and Xion were most likely a breathe of fresh air for Amano and they probably reinvigorated his interest in the KH2 manga.
 
Last edited:

KeybladeGuy

New member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
140
Awards
1
  • Ninja'd
In retrospect, the Disney Worlds were what attracted me to the series in the first place.

Getting to relieve the movies of my childhood and take part in their events just seemed so great.

Then I really warmed up to the great story.
 

blksabbath74

New member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
629
Awards
0
Age
44
Location
Birmingham AL
True dat, and while Amano's manga really goes sometimes over the top with the comedy (compared to the games), he manages to weave the story together better and flesh out many of the characters' personalities and emotions way more than any of the games has so far, although that may also because of the medium in use.
Good call. The voice actor performances in the game are often a bit wooden, slow, or overly dramatic, making the story seem to drag out sometimes, whereas Amano does a great job injecting some humor and additional character development into the stories.

The novels are only available in Japan, there exist no English or otherwise localized version.

If you want to read the novels, you have to resort to fan translations, like the ones fellow KHI-member goldpanner does.
There is a sticky thread for these in some subforum here.
EDIT:
Found the thread:
KH Novels

Thank you very much!
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
Awards
4
  • Quack Attack
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Rising Star
  • Keyblade Master
Good call. The voice actor performances in the game are often a bit wooden, slow, or overly dramatic, making the story seem to drag out sometimes, whereas Amano does a great job injecting some humor and additional character development into the stories.
I think that has less to do with the performances though and more to do with the pacing. KH is first and foremost an action RPG series, and while it's certainly not impossible to tell a good story, it makes it more difficult. KH has to split its time between telling a story and being an interactive adventure. The manga and novels don't have to worry about that. It's easier for them to slip into different territory, like telling the story from the point of view of another character or getting inside their heads.

For instance, in the BbS novels Vanitas has two chapters dedicated to him. This sort of thing wouldn't work as fluidly in the games because it all takes place in one location and there wouldn't be much to do in terms of game play.
 

blksabbath74

New member
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
629
Awards
0
Age
44
Location
Birmingham AL
I think that has less to do with the performances though and more to do with the pacing. KH is first and foremost an action RPG series, and while it's certainly not impossible to tell a good story, it makes it more difficult. KH has to split its time between telling a story and being an interactive adventure. The manga and novels don't have to worry about that. It's easier for them to slip into different territory, like telling the story from the point of view of another character or getting inside their heads.

For instance, in the BbS novels Vanitas has two chapters dedicated to him. This sort of thing wouldn't work as fluidly in the games because it all takes place in one location and there wouldn't be much to do in terms of game play.
I'm certainly not finding fault with the game, or the way it is presented. As you and/or Sephiroth pointed out, the medium of a novel or graphic novel allow you to do things that really wouldn't work in a game.

Having said that, the subtle changes Amano makes in the mangas really do make the characters more approachable. Look how much better the 388/2 mangas are than the game, and how much better Axel and Xion are developed.
 

Sephiroth0812

Guardian of Light
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
10,224
Awards
26
Location
Germany
  • Cloaked Schemer
  • Taciturn Stalwart
  • Chilly Academic
  • Whirlwind Lancer
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Fairest of them All
Exactly, one needs to be very careful when making prequels and there just didn't seem to be enough planning ahead when they decided to make Days. So I'm totally in compliance with Amano getting it out of the way first. Although, it does make me more curious as to what he'll do with BbS. He does take his own route with the story sometimes so I'm sure he'll find a way to work with it. From what I recall, Xion was Nomura's idea, Kanemaki fell in love with the concept of her and pretty much made Xion her own, and Nomura just rolled with it because for better or for worse he's very open to other's ideas. e.g., if I recall right Xion was originally intended to be a personal antagonist to Roxas who followed him around, akin to Vanitas onto Ven I think, but Kanemaki insisted that she be a protagonist instead who was friends with Roxas.

That's the benefit of working on a story after the fact. While Amano's take on KH can be weird sometimes, he at least can look back at the games, try to recognize flaws or areas that need work, and try to fix them. e.g., I actually like the manga iteration of Kairi better than the game version. Although, that's a bit of a double edged sword because it's partly due to Kairi having even less character in the KH1 manga, but Amano has been trying fix that in the KH2 manga. And being more successful at it imo.



What Sephy said~

Although, Yen Press has expressed interest in the KH novels if there's enough interest in it.
The planning for Days itself was sort of half-baked, as the final scene really was a good transition to KH and there were some clever throwbacks to KH 2 in general, but on the other hand much of the new stuff didn't fly with things established before and was pretty easily handwaved with the amnesia-card. The main issue was really that it came too late in order to be properly weaved into KH 2 itself. BBS was already in early planning stages during KH 2's development and thus did get some subtle foreshadowing in-game (like Xigbar's hints and his rambling with Zexion over the chambers in FM) and through the secret ending.
For BBS I'm truly interested as well what Amano will cook up, I wonder if he will go at that one a little more serious with less comedic antics as both MX and Vanitas are not really some goofy villains unlike some Organisation members and if he can give the actual deep sibling-like friendship between TAV that is proposed, but not properly shown in-game, some more depth and appreciation.

Like said, I'm hazy on these things so the way you remember it may actually be the correct one, I won't press this issue and right now I actually have not enough time to search through hoards of interviews to look for that passage.
And with that insistence Kanemaki actually brought upon the game an one-person spotlight-stealing squad. I'm certainly not an anti-Xion person, I like her as a character, but I do find her overpresence in the story of Days as overbearing.

This makes one wonder though, if scripts and dialogue made by the scenario writers need to be approved by Nomura, one would think he gets the scripts before implementing them into the games, so the possibility of noticing (and correcting) flaws should be there as well and actually be easier for Nomura who claimed once that only he alone knows the kinks and answers to all mysteries.
But I guess that goes often down the drain because schedules have to be met and unlike Amano who "only" has to work on drawing and texting, Nomura has several other areas to pay attention to as director (and he likes too much to play around with new gameplay gimmicks and contemplates what can be done to make it "more surprising" each time).
Full agreement, I love the more active, spunky KH 2 manga Kairi who actually gets to notice that something is off with the "Nobodies don't deserve to exist"-preaching that is thrown around. Her scenes with Axel are very powerful and unlike the games where the POV is always on Sora doing his antics with the duck and dog, you actually get to see what happens when Axel takes Kairi from Twilight Town and the events following. The manga gives quite a bit more fair share of the spotlight for important characters in contrast to the games.

It's not that I'm saying KH2 is boring, it's more that Amano had been working on KH2 for a couple of years at that point. The KH2 manga is the longest out of all of the KH manga, so he probably needed to step away from Sora & co. for a little while.

Roxas and Xion were most likely a breathe of fresh air for him and Amano reinvigorate his interest in the KH2 manga.
Okay, lol, I also just realized recently after having replayed KH 1 in 1.5 HD just how easily I get bored with KH 2. Sometimes, I have more fun designing some wacky Gummi ships in KH 2 (like Star Wars Star Destroyers) than actually battling or playing Disney world plots.

So far I have five volumes of KH 2 in german, so it may be certainly the longest of the Kh mangas, although in comparison I'd say for a manga that is still rather short, as most mangas I know have between at least 16 or even more volumes.

Of course I don't know much about Amano's way of working so him getting bored is pretty possible as well.
I guess switching to a different manga is then still better than entering very long hiatus like Sadamoto (NGE) or Yoshihiro Togashi (HxH) are often doing.

In retrospect, the Disney Worlds were what attracted me to the series in the first place.

Getting to relieve the movies of my childhood and take part in their events just seemed so great.

Then I really warmed up to the great story.
I'm the opposite as I originally came over from being a Final Fantasy fan, but the Disney worlds themselves are not the problem in the first place but how they are handled.
KH without the Disney worlds wouldn't be KH anymore, that's clear.

Just plainly rattling down the events of the movies does not do anything to help the games story though and is all in all a waste of screentime because it has no impact on the overaching narrative.
In KH 1 (and partly in BBS and DDD) the Disney worlds do actually not follow the movie plot to a T and have the original characters thrown in but alter the events to include connections to the overaching plot which does not only make the whole point of visiting that world more interesting, it also weaves that world into the bigger universe and portrays it as actually a part of it rather than just jumping into a detached stand-alone performance of the movie plot.
Take Space Paranoids in KH 2 for an example.
It followed the plot of the movie only on broad terms but had truly important connections to the overaching plot.
 
Last edited:

Draxem

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
578
Awards
0
Location
UK
Website
www.taystrippedbear.com
Just plainly rattling down the events of the movies does not do anything to help the games story though and is all in all a waste of screentime because it has no impact on the overaching narrative.
In KH 1 (and partly in BBS and DDD) the Disney worlds do actually not follow the movie plot to a T and have the original characters thrown in but alter the events to include connections to the overaching plot which does not only make the whole point of visiting that world more interesting, it also weaves that world into the bigger universe and portrays it as actually a part of it rather than just jumping into a detached stand-alone performance of the movie plot.
Take Space Paranoids in KH 2 for an example.
It followed the plot of the movie only on broad terms but had truly important connections to the overaching plot.
Beasts castle did pretty good in my opinion with Xaldin. I don't remember Port Royale too well but I think Luxord was there? was he relevant? I know that pretty much followed the film to a tee.

on the discussion of how days was poorly planned, personally I feel that BBS.V2 should have been created with Roxas as a playable scenario WITHOUT Xion, thus eliminating the need to create Days or further complications to the plot. Although with this I understand they were commissioned by Nintendo for Days and needed to produce something.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
8
Awards
0
i don't really like the manga. at times the characters are goofy looking and they don't really relate to the gamas as much as i would like it too.
 

Sign

Site Staff Manager
Staff member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
15,657
Awards
30
  • Ninja'd
  • In the Grid
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5+2.5 ReMIX
  • Ever Gentle and Kind
  • Fairest of them All
  • Jiminy's Journal
i don't really like the manga. at times the characters are goofy looking and they don't really relate to the gamas as much as i would like it too.
Amano is allowed to take as many liberties as he wants with his adaptation. It was never meant to be a direct copy of the game.
 

BlueKey777

Banned
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
324
Awards
0
Age
22
i don't really like the manga. at times the characters are goofy looking and they don't really relate to the gamas as much as i would like it too.
huh that's the opposite for me! I like reading the manga because its more comical than the game and i think it was intended that way.
 
Top