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Improvements you would make



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The Kingdom Hearts series post-KH1 (and arguably, CoM) has been fraught with moments (sometimes a lot more than just a moment) of terrible writing. Instead of just listing what you think was handled poorly, what are alternate ways you think a certain plot aspect or a particular scene could have been written?
 

MrFranklin95

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Couple things in particular:

KH: Nothing. The story is fine... well, I probably would've made Riku less of dick. That's not really a flaw though.

Chain of Memories: Sora not remembering anything. The way they explained why Sora, Donald, and Goofy couldn't remember everything in Castle Oblivion didn't make any sense to me. What is really stopping Namine from putting the links backs where they were? It wouldn't effect anything. Because maybe it would take longer? That's the only reason I can see but even then it's not like they're on a time limit for anything. It's been a year, what's a month or two gonna hurt? I'd buy it more if that's what Namine wanted to do but DiZ got in the way because of his plans. And so because of that, Sora forgot Namine and Castle Oblivion. That would've been clever to do. Not this "Thank Namine" crap. There's no real reason given for why the links couldn't still be there and the reason they gave, I call BS because it doesn't make sense. It works like a chain, just put the chain back together with the new memories in hand. If someone can explain better, please do because I'm having a hard time understanding what the actual issue is. Is it because she altered the memories and now she has to put them back that way, which doesn't include Namine? Well then, why would the castle be gone too? Sora didn't know who Namine was when they entered the Castle until the memories were being altered. And on Destiny Island, that's the first time they ever meet but Sora doesn't know that. Why would that go away? Why should she and this Castle Oblivion suddenly disappear from your memory because a memory they were tied to changes back when a memory after that dealing with her is real and not tied by that at all? Hell, the wayfinder changes back but he isn't forgetting who Namine is. All of this is a new and separate memory. Just put that memory back to the way it was and added the other ones here. You can remember things without forgetting the other. So I would've had them remembered everything. It's not like it matters because the memory wipe is barely addressed afterwards, so it felt like a plot point that was a waste of time.

Also put in new worlds. Just.. do that.


358/2 Days: Should've given more time to the other Organization members. I get why Roxas, Axel, and Xion are the primary focus but I felt like I didn't learn anything new about the other members of the Organization then what was given to me in KH2 and CoM.

KH2: Make DiZ and Namine part of Sora's journey traveling to worlds. I don't understand why those characters suddenly disappear for most of the game until the final act. DiZ is a complex villain and I still care about Namine. It would've been good to see that. They aren't completely wasted because the final act makes up for it but I would've gotten them more involved.

Re:coded: Get the real Sora. You know the letter at the end of KH2? Why didn't you make that the reason why Sora goes to Disney Castle? That would've made sense. Making a completely new Sora felt like a backtrack. Why get a less experienced version of your Hero when you can hop on your gummi ship and get Sora over here in no time. It's not like Sora would be opposed to it, it's Sora. I can't imagine Sora saying "F--k off" to Mickey over something like this. And given how this story moved along, it felt like even more of a backtrack. Why couldn't you get the real Sora? The ending would've hit a lot more if the real version was actually experiencing it all. I don't mind Data Riku and I don't Data Roxas. But I think a real Sora would've been better. In faact, why didn't Sora, Riku, and Kairi all go together? Who says they can't? Their parents?

DDD: Just don't put in time travel. The rest of the story is fine. I don't even mind that Sora is a lot more... Sora then he usually is. But time travel really wasn't needed for this and came out of left field. I'll still go with it going into KH3 and I'll give them credit that they established rules for it... but it really wasn't needed. Also, Kairi should've been in the game. There's no reason she couldn't have.

BBS: Develop VTA's friendship a bit more. I felt like I got enough but more would've helped the ending REALLY hit home... you know, besides it just being generally tragic as it was, even if I didn't know the characters. But more would've helped.
 
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Grono

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I think if we got to go through the town and learn of the tales of the Beast, and have Sora go through the town defending him, Gaston would be able to make his grand entrance into the scene, where he would serve as the primary antagonist and final boss of the world. Gaston later is revealed to also be working with Xaldin, Xaldin doing the work of warping the Beast's mind in order to psych him out and make him rage. I think if this happened in KHII I would have been soooo much more invested in Beast's Castle!
 

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Well personally I'd scrap it all and start again from KH1. Which naturally would result in an entirely different KH2. I'd then use Aqua as my new main protag starting with BBS and her struggle with Xehanort.

This is just the light of it though. It'd take me an entire day to go through each and every thing I'd do differently if I had to take the same course of games Nomura was at times forced too (Days) or convinced too (Chain of Memories).

I do that I'd have never taken a nobody route or used the Xehanort plot line during Sora's run as main hero. It'd just be a straightforward tale of him fighting Ansem, a leader gone wrong, and then in KH2 his wayward apprentices that, like Ansem, were heartless that stole new bodies.
I'd have also avoided the magical fix of worlds and walls returning at the end of KH1.
 

Absent

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Oh boy.

KH 1: Work something with Kairi. Show a more relateable Riku. Better platforming.

CoM: Get rid of the scent thing, and make the worlds more interesting.

KH2: Redo all the Disney worlds. Make Kairi a central character alongside Namine and Riku.

Days: Make the gameplay more casual because this game relies too much on a pre planned strategies. Develop the Org. 13. Make Namine and Riku play a bigger role.

BBS: To quote Master Xehanort: "He's an abomination beyond the hope of salvation."

Re:Coded: Rework the worlds, add something completely new to them. Add the Real Sora.

DDD: Where. Do. I. Even. Begin.
 

h.e.hassanein

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i too would've given TAV more time to build up their relationship in our eyes. the tutorial should've started a few days before the MoM exam, so you'd feel the buildup of anxiety about it over those days so you truly understand how important it was to them (Terra and Aqua were so nonchalant about it!) you'd also get to see them training together, teasing each other, giving each other advice....in other words, you'd get to see them actually interact, rather than just having that one (terribly forced) conversation when Aqua gave Ven & Terra the Wayfinders. their laughing in that scene still gives me the shivers- and you had to listen to it three times over!
 

h.e.hassanein

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also idk what you guys are talking about, that scent thing was pure gold


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Emperor

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There are a couple of things, but I don't want this reply to get too long.

BBS: More TVA interaction, along with not making Terra seem so gullible. Considering we pretty much know from the start of the game that Xehanort is the villain, I feel like it would have been an interesting dynamic to have had Terra not trust Master Xehanort when Master Eraqus did, giving him some credibility as a potential keybalde master.

CoM: From this game onward, I feel Sora's memory of Castle Oblivion should have returned little by little, or he should have never forgotten at all. This game is basically made pointless considering the main protagonist doesn't even remember any of it happening. Sure you could say it helps develop Riku, but Riku's in even worse shape in Days when it comes to containing Ansem, so, at least to me, their bout in CoM wasn't really all that impactful, a least after Days' release. Granted he does learn he shouldn't fear his own darkness.

Days: I would have focused more on the entire organization instead of just Roxas, Axel, and Xion. This was the perfect opportunity to flesh out these characters and give us more information as to who they were. We could have used this game to witness their past lives first hand since Nobodies retain those memories.

Coded: Real Sora.

DDD: Would have kept Lea as a support character instead turning him into a main, and would have done something other than time travel to get Xehanort's gang of 'Norts.

CoM: Get rid of the scent thing, and make the worlds more interesting.

The fact that they never brought this up again shows you how pointless it was.
 

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CoM: From this game onward, I feel Sora's memory of Castle Oblivion should have returned little by little, or he should have never forgotten at all.
Sora remembers Castle Oblivion by the end of the next game, KH2.

This game is basically made pointless considering the main protagonist doesn't even remember any of it happening.
Eh. That's kind of like saying that BBS doesn't matter because Sora didn't witness it. CoM had long reaching effects on many characters and the story of the series as a whole. It's hardly pointless. (Not to mention Sora does remember it lol)

Sure you could say it helps develop Riku, but Riku's in even worse shape in Days when it comes to containing Ansem, so, at least to me, their bout in CoM wasn't really all that impactful, a least after Days' release.
Days butchers Riku's character and suggesting that Days is all that is needed for his characterization (and that CoM is expendable) is a terrible suggestion lol.

The fact that they never brought this up again shows you how pointless it was.
It's brought up a little, but yeah, not by much.
 

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also idk what you guys are talking about, that scent thing was pure gold


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Man, I laughed so hard. CoM dialogue truly at its finest. RikuxNamine all the way xD. And honestly, I never saw as creepy but just ironic. Like, dude, do you just go around smelling people all the time? I wonder what Sora smells like lol.
 

Emperor

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Sora remembers Castle Oblivion by the end of the next game, KH2.

Yeah, I just remembered that scene at the end of FM+, lol.

Eh. That's kind of like saying that BBS doesn't matter because Sora didn't witness it. CoM had long reaching effects on many characters and the story of the series as a whole. It's hardly pointless. (Not to mention Sora does remember it lol)

Should have chosen my words more carefully for this one. I meant that for Sora, the events of CoM were pointless, but since Sora does actually remember what happens it doesn't really matter, lol.

Days butchers Riku's character and suggesting that Days is all that is needed for his characterization (and that CoM is expendable) is a terrible suggestion lol.

I wasn't at all saying Days was needed for Riku's character development. I was saying that Days was the problem in that factor. Riku defeats Ansem in CoM, but in Days he's having an even harder time suppressing him, so the effect of their bout in CoM, at least for me, was lessened due to Days.

It's brought up a little, but yeah, not by much.

Really? They bring this up outside of CoM? I don't remember that.
 

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This is going to be fun…

KH- Give Kairi more screentime/development. Show her in some flashbacks, and give her some interaction with Riku. After Kairi is rescued, I'd have her go back to Hollow Bastion with the FF characters and have her help the other PoH hold back the darkness.

CoM-I’m fine with the overarching plot for the most part, but I would like to have been given a bit more insight into the Organization. Explain why Marluxia/Larxene want to take over, for example (this could/should have been covered in Days, to be fair). Part of me wants to have Mickey as a traveling partner like Donald and Goofy, but I can see why they didn’t; there would be no sense of danger since he can kick everyone’s ass, lol. And I think Riku’s storyline in that game also works better if he’s alone. And yeah, get rid of the scent thing. I completely forgot about that until Absent mentioned it. I also would have Riku's worlds be more substantial. Instead of just boss fights with no context, I'd have him reveal his memories of those worlds/his experiences in KH1. We never did fully see his side of the story.

KH2-Do more with Roxas. Have him play a role throughout the game, with Sora gradually remembering things from Roxas’s life, or Roxas trying to take over, or something, anything. Have the events from CoM gradually return to Sora over the course of the game. Show what Namine/DiZ/Riku were doing. Integrate all the Disney worlds into the plot better; make the Organization play a stronger/more apparent role in the world plots (I don’t think second visits should be necessary, honestly). Get rid of the Maleficent subplot completely, or have her resurrected at the end of the game, or have her play more of a role in the overarching storyline. Also, do more with Kairi. Show her interacting with HPO/the Organization members. Make her getting a keybalde a bigger deal, like maybe she has to overcome a big challenge or something and it comes to her instead of it being literally handed to her.

Days-Oh boy. I would rework this one from the ground up. Xion did not have to exist in the first place; her plot could have, should have been given to Roxas. Roxas should be the one gradually remembering things from Sora and begins to have doubts about the Organization. I would give some focus on the Terra-Ven/Xemnas-Roxas relationships. Heck, all the Organization members should have been given A LOT more screen time than they actually did. That being said, I would be ok with Xion (or a Xion-like) character IF she was treated differently in game. As in, the entire plot doesn’t revolve around her and her wangst, and she remains strictly a supporting character while Roxas’s personal journey remains at the forefront. Also, a different origin is a must for her; no more nonsensical Sora clone BS. DiZ and Riku could have also had bigger roles; they could have acted like the antagonists of the game.

BBS-Develop TAV’s relationship more. Instead of the MX-Terra fusion I would just have Terra give into darkness and eventually become Apprentice Xehanort after his memory loss. Make the worlds that are supposed to have people more populated. Not have all keyblades be knockoffs of the X-Blade. Get rid of the idea of keyblade inheritance ceremonies entirely. Show more of the apprentices (and AtW) on RG, and Kairi and her grandma. Develop Ven more. If he had enough darkness in him that allowed Vanitas to be created at age twelve (?) I would like to see more of his backstory/his character pre-split. Give Aqua more of a story besides just chasing after Ven and Terra.

DDD-This game would not exist, since MX would die in BBS. Notre Dame would be saved for a future game where it would get the justice it deserves. If the game had to exist in some capacity, it would be completely reworked and the only thing that stays the same is the idea of traveling into sleeping worlds for the Mark of Mastery which eventually gets sabotaged somehow. Kairi would go with them to the tower, and learn how to use her keyblade.

I think if we got to go through the town and learn of the tales of the Beast, and have Sora go through the town defending him, Gaston would be able to make his grand entrance into the scene, where he would serve as the primary antagonist and final boss of the world. Gaston later is revealed to also be working with Xaldin, Xaldin doing the work of warping the Beast's mind in order to psych him out and make him rage. I think if this happened in KHII I would have been soooo much more invested in Beast's Castle!
This would have been great! Since he didn’t show up in KH2, I thought for sure Gaston would appear in Days. No one gets ignored in KH like Gaston, apparently lol.
 
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Audo

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um alright, some quick thoughts

KH1
-Not too much to change really, story wise.
-Maybe have a few more scenes in the beginning with Riku that aren't antagonistic? Like it's hard to buy they were best friends at the beginning of the series, because literally every scene is setting them up as opposition to each other, which then kind of effects how much the player cares later on (this is clearly a problem they noticed since they literally add a sepia-toned flashback sequence at the end of happier times in their friendship lol).
-Have Kairi more involved and given a real role. Do not have her go back to DI, but allow her to actually be involved.
-If I was going somewhere totally divergent with the plot, I'd have Kairi end up locked in the Realm of Darkness instead of Riku.

CoM
-As others have said, I'd tone down the "scent" thing.
-Make R/R more substantial. A lot of Riku's worlds were empty of story details, and it would have been nice if they used this opportunity to flesh out his story in KH1 by showing more of what he did during his journey.

Re:Coded
-I see a lot of people ask for the real Sora, but, idk, for some reason I never really cared that it was a data-Sora and I think the ultimate theme regarding if data can grow a heart was worth it and helped establish and set precedent for the bigger revelation that came with KH3D. So I'd actually like that to stay.
-Include more "hidden KH1 scenes". After the first couple worlds the whole thing is completely dropped.
-When this game was in development it was kind of pitched as being the game to tell us about the King's story and that was completely dropped in actuality. It would have been nice to see more of that.
-I'd get rid of the (frankly, dumb) way that Pete and Maleficent get into the Datascape. Pete just HAPPENING to be there at the precise time was ridiculous. Kinda would've liked it more if they got in by hacking using the Org's computer or something (remember, how they said they'd take their castle at the end of KH2?)
-Should have included Kairi in some form. There was really no reason why she should've been excluded and she desperately needs more screentime and development and characterization, even if it is a data-form of her.

i'll do the other games sometime later.
 

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-If I was going somewhere totally divergent with the plot, I'd have Kairi end up locked in the Realm of Darkness instead of Riku.
Interesting. Would Riku be the one to end up on DI in this scenario, or would he end up somewhere else?

-Make R/R more substantial. A lot of Riku's worlds were empty of story details, and it would have been nice if they used this opportunity to flesh out his story in KH1 by showing more of what he did during his journey.
Agreed! I'm glad you mentioned this because I completely forgot about that until now. They could have shown his memories of kidnapping Alice, Hook's ship, how he met Maleficent, etc. There really was a lot of wasted potential in that regard.
 

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I would remove the sword wielding heartless and the big heartless, they're the most annoying enemies in the entire series.
 

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Riku probably would have gotten the same emo arc he had but we might have gotten to see Sora have to learn to forgive Riku for his past actions rather than what actually happens which was Sora still being total bros with him.
 

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kh com: having to forget about CO could have really been some good character development for sora, riku was perfect though.
kh2: um where do i start? diz was wasted, the disney worlds felt disconnected, sora's hate for nobodies dissipated too quickly, i can go on forever.
days: i loved days tbh, the dialogue was cheesy and the ending was rushed.
re:coded and ddd: i never paid attention to those game's stories, the gameplay had me.
bbs: i love hate the story. it was tragic, but too much formulaic prequel fodder, it was wasted as a vehicle to set up future entries.
 

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Where to begin?

Days - Take away Xion and have much more focus on everyone else, especially the members that leave early seeing how we don't get much time with them.

KH II - Make all the Disney Worlds essential to the story and give all the original characters waaay more screen time (except Sora) and give Kairi a greater purpose, maybe even have more playable scenarios with Kairi and Riku.
Make sure there's a reason for nobodies to appear more often, maybe there's black towers built spreading darkness and the nobodies are strong enough to protect them (Digimon A2 rip off).

I could write an essay but those are some of the biggest issues right now story wise.
 
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