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Spoilers ► I'm Pleasantly Surprised by this Place's Critical Nature



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gameguy523

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So I'm a big KH fan, but have definitely noticed the flaws as the series has continued. I mainly come from twitter and it's baffling how many people just utterly praise KH3 there and how they are completely unwilling to take any criticism. I was looking for a cool place to talk about the series in a balanced manner and I have to say, I am so pleasantly surprised by how fair most people seem to be about criticism. Very little blind praise and toxic positivity. It seems like people can genuinely have a discussion here that furthers the quality of the series. Excited to be here ^_^
 

AR829038

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So I'm a big KH fan, but have definitely noticed the flaws as the series has continued. I mainly come from twitter and it's baffling how many people just utterly praise KH3 there and how they are completely unwilling to take any criticism. I was looking for a cool place to talk about the series in a balanced manner and I have to say, I am so pleasantly surprised by how fair most people seem to be about criticism. Very little blind praise and toxic positivity. It seems like people can genuinely have a discussion here that furthers the quality of the series. Excited to be here ^_^
I think you'll find that even the people who love KH3 (and I am unashamedly one of them) are still very open to admitting its faults. KH3 was not a perfect game, by any metric. The only thing that I would argue is that it's not significantly inferior to KH1 or KH2 in terms of overall quality, which is where a lot of the disagreement stems from. But yeah, of course it's got problems.
 

AdrianXXII

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Yeah people here tend to critizise new entrances even when they like it. Which i think is a healthy relationship to have with any series.
Welcome to the forum.
 
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I'm a big KH3 fan myself, but by no means does that make it a perfect game. I think every KH game has flaws--yes, including the (IMO overly glorified) KH1.
 

Cumguardian69

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So I'm a big KH fan, but have definitely noticed the flaws as the series has continued. I mainly come from twitter and it's baffling how many people just utterly praise KH3 there and how they are completely unwilling to take any criticism. I was looking for a cool place to talk about the series in a balanced manner and I have to say, I am so pleasantly surprised by how fair most people seem to be about criticism. Very little blind praise and toxic positivity. It seems like people can genuinely have a discussion here that furthers the quality of the series. Excited to be here ^_^
Most folks who post on twitter are not looking for critiques. KH3 wasn't perfect by any stretch of the fan's imagination. It can easily be the most fun or have the most heartwarming of moments, but it wasn't perfect. But even if i can write that here, on twitter that isn't the pervasive thought and never will be. blind hatred will never prevail on twitter.
 

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Thank you all for the warm welcome! It's gonna be super cool talking all things constructive on the series here ^_^
 

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I dunno man, KH3 was my least favorite game in the series, but I've kind of gotten tired of Kingdom Hearts communities that seem to be filled with people who think that every game since the last one they have nostalgia for (usually one from more than 10 years ago) are completely worthless, which is a really common opinion in places like here or the subreddit. At some point I'd rather hear what other people liked about something I didn't, so I can understand it better. I have a good deal of criticism of Kingdom Hearts myself, of course, and I hope that everyone can speak their mind. But this side of things can be just as tiring, is all.
 

Alpha Baymax

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So I'm a big KH fan, but have definitely noticed the flaws as the series has continued. I mainly come from twitter and it's baffling how many people just utterly praise KH3 there and how they are completely unwilling to take any criticism. I was looking for a cool place to talk about the series in a balanced manner and I have to say, I am so pleasantly surprised by how fair most people seem to be about criticism. Very little blind praise and toxic positivity. It seems like people can genuinely have a discussion here that furthers the quality of the series. Excited to be here ^_^
Some people associate a product to their personal identity so when you criticise it, it's almost as if you're criticising them for their interest. I'd just avoid those people.
 

Elysium

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Yes, it's nice when criticism isn't treated like a mental illness by fandom (this one or any fandom really). :) Personally, I loved 3D, 0.2, and KH3, but the latter especially deserved criticism on some points, namely the lack of Radiant Garden, tournaments, FF characters, lack of Disney bosses, and, well, Maleficent and Disney's continued irrelevance overall. Still, it's a great game despite those flaws--for me anyway. YMMV, as always.
 

The_Echo

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I think right now and probably for the next couple of years yet, discussion around KHIII is going to be tainted with very strong, very imbalanced opinions on both ends. I don't know what it's like on Twitter, which is a hellscape anyway, but I'd say the majority opinion on KHIII everywhere else trends negative. Re Mind turned things around in the same way KHIIFM changed opinions. But a lot of people still cling to their first impressions like their life depends on it, and it's going to take time for that grip to loosen and allow for new perspectives.
The tide inevitably changes. It happens with every game. I've seen public opinion shift for every entry in this series, and KHIII will be no exception.

Personally, I like KHIII. It's probably not my favorite, but it doesn't have to be. What it gets right it gets very right, and what it got wrong I'm not terribly bothered by.
Yes, it's nice when criticism isn't treated like a mental illness by fandom (this one or any fandom really). :) Personally, I loved 3D, 0.2, and KH3, but the latter especially deserved criticism on some points, namely the lack of Radiant Garden, tournaments, FF characters, lack of Disney bosses, and, well, Maleficent and Disney's continued irrelevance overall. Still, it's a great game despite those flaws--for me anyway. YMMV, as always.
I'm not sure that those are fair criticisms to make when the game made no promises that those elements would be featured. You're judging the game for what it isn't instead of what it is.

And I think that's actually part of the larger issue with KHIII's reception: the fanbase falling for its own hype. KHIII had the unfortunate fate of not coming immediately after KHII, and the presumption of III led to "a decade of waiting" during which fans imagined and imagined and imagined until the final, real game couldn't possibly live up to the Kingdom Hearts III they built in their heads. So it comes out, and it's different from that perfect game they thought it would be, and they're inevitably disappointed.
Happens to every highly-anticipated game, especially those from long-running series.
 

Elysium

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I'm not sure that those are fair criticisms to make when the game made no promises that those elements would be featured. You're judging the game for what it isn't instead of what it is.
Well, as I said, YMMV. It doesn't matter to me what anyone else believes is a "fair" criticism; I wouldn't agree with your assessment even if it did. Judging 3 by 2 and 1 isn't an unfair scale to hold it against at all, imo. Anyway, you skipped clean over the fact that I said I do think KH3 is a great game overall. This is the problem with the positivity policing from some fans. Calling KH3 anything less than an "unmatched masterpiece" causes an argument. You have to agree with them on every point, otherwise you’re too negative, you’re not a real fan, you’re immoral on some level, etc. etc. Then they make all kinds of assumptions of why you hold the opinion you do in order to disregard it entirely because someone holding a different opinion, however slight, is very wrong. Those kinds of reactions make me wish I did hate KH3 like some people like to imagine that I do, because then I could really tear into it and enjoy how much that would simply infuriate that portion of fandom.
 
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The_Echo

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Well, as I said, YMMV. It doesn't matter to me what anyone else believes is a "fair" criticism; I wouldn't agree with your assessment even if it did. Judging 3 by 2 and 1 isn't an unfair scale to hold it against at all, imo. Anyway, you skipped clean over the fact that I said I do think KH3 is a great game overall. This is the problem with the positivity policing from some fans. Calling KH3 anything less than an "unmatched masterpiece" causes an argument. You have to agree with them on every point, otherwise you’re too negative, you’re not a real fan, you’re immoral on some level, etc. etc. Then they make all kinds of assumptions of why you hold the opinion you do in order to disregard it entirely because someone holding a different opinion, however slight, is very wrong. Those kinds of reactions make me wish I did hate KH3 as much as some people like to imagine that I do, because then I would really tear into it and enjoy how much that simply infuriates that portion of fandom.
I think you may have wildly misconstrued my intentions.
I just wanted to highlight the idea of judging a game by the things it isn't trying to do, because that metric of judgment doesn't sit right with me (and it's one used by a lot of people).
That's not to say comparisons can't be made to other games in the same series, but for example I won't begrudge Metal Gear Solid 3 for not having included the skateboarding minigame in Metal Gear Solid 2, even if I really liked that minigame.
 

Vulpes XIII

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So I'm a big KH fan, but have definitely noticed the flaws as the series has continued. I mainly come from twitter and it's baffling how many people just utterly praise KH3 there and how they are completely unwilling to take any criticism. I was looking for a cool place to talk about the series in a balanced manner and I have to say, I am so pleasantly surprised by how fair most people seem to be about criticism. Very little blind praise and toxic positivity. It seems like people can genuinely have a discussion here that furthers the quality of the series. Excited to be here ^_^
Hi welcome to the forums :) I agree it’s good to be able to talk about the series in a balanced manner. I like hearing other people’s opinion on the series even if I don’t agree with them. Honestly I thought Kingdom Hearts 3 was a good game even though it had a few things I didn‘t like , it’s not the best game in the series in my opinion but it was still enjoyable.
 

Elysium

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I think you may have wildly misconstrued my intentions.
I just wanted to highlight the idea of judging a game by the things it isn't trying to do, because that metric of judgment doesn't sit right with me (and it's one used by a lot of people).
That's not to say comparisons can't be made to other games in the same series, but for example I won't begrudge Metal Gear Solid 3 for not having included the skateboarding minigame in Metal Gear Solid 2, even if I really liked that minigame.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

2 quid is good

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That's not to say comparisons can't be made to other games in the same series, but for example I won't begrudge Metal Gear Solid 3 for not having included the skateboarding minigame in Metal Gear Solid 2, even if I really liked that minigame.
It's pretty off base to compare FF characters to a skateboarding minigame.
 

The_Echo

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It's pretty off base to compare FF characters to a skateboarding minigame.
It was aimed more towards a comparison to the Coliseum but the fundamental idea of an element being present in one game, but absent in the next, is the same.

In general, I'm more interested in what a game is doing, and how well it does that, rather than what it didn't do, and how much I wish it had.
And like I said, comparisons are fair, but I don't think they should be a primary source of judgment.
 

Elysium

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Spoke too soon, gameguy523.

It was aimed more towards a comparison to the Coliseum but the fundamental idea of an element being present in one game, but absent in the next, is the same.
I think you probably know it was in both 1 and 2 and even BbS had Mirage Arena (the closest to a main game of all those spin-offs in KH's 10-year ramble through the weeds before 3). If you don't agree, you don't agree, but you won't be changing my opinion. The purpose of criticism is to keep the series from repeating mistakes. It took all the criticism of KH2's narrow hallway approach to level design for us to get expansive worlds like those in 3D, 0.2, and KH3--and that's partly why I love those games. Your approach would mean we couldn't have criticized KH2 for lack of platforming because that means disliking it for "what it isn't"--nevermind that KH1 had been all about platforming. I personally hope all the criticism of 3 will at least get us Radiant Garden back in future games, if nothing else. That's why I don't care who it bothers, criticism is needed.
 
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