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If Ven's heart is within Sora...



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Why does Xehanort need to find Ven's BODY? Isn't Xehanort's purpose in finding Ven is because he wants to reforge the X-blade? He obviously knows that Ven's heart is within Sora, and it's proven after that comment the Unknown and Vanitas made towards him. So what would he need Ven's body for exactly?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Why does Xehanort need to find Ven's BODY? Isn't Xehanort's purpose in finding Ven is because he wants to reforge the X-blade? He obviously knows that Ven's heart is within Sora, and it's proven after that comment the Unknown and Vanitas made towards him. So what would he need Ven's body for exactly?

Yeah, and how do you forge the X-blade?

By having the heart of pure light and heart of pure darkness clash/intersect when at equal power.

So Ventus would need to be forced to fight Vanitas (or another heart of darkness).
He would pretty much need a body for that, not to mention if Xehanort plans on Vanitas enslaving Ven again and wield the X-blade like in BBS a vessel would be needed for him to act in the Realm of Light.
Vanitas was destroyed at the end of BBS, and his original "body" of darkness was eliminiated by Ven in their first final fight at the Keyblade Graveyard before he took off his mask.
If anything is left of him at all it would be only his mind/will and the heart of darkness, no real vessel.

Ven's heart may be the most important piece of the puzzle, but it alone isn't sufficient.
 

Hillboy

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Yeah, and how do you forge the X-blade?

By having the heart of pure light and heart of pure darkness clash/intersect when at equal power.

So Ventus would need to be forced to fight Vanitas (or another heart of darkness).
He would pretty much need a body for that, not to mention if Xehanort plans on Vanitas enslaving Ven again and wield the X-blade like in BBS a vessel would be needed for him to act in the Realm of Light.
Vanitas was destroyed at the end of BBS, and his original "body" of darkness was eliminiated by Ven in their first final fight at the Keyblade Graveyard before he took off his mask.
If anything is left of him at all it would be only his mind/will and the heart of darkness, no real vessel.

Ven's heart may be the most important piece of the puzzle, but it alone isn't sufficient.
I don't usually say this but...
THIS
 

venomblade

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Well, what everyone else said, plus the fact that Xemnas is Terra too and he wants his bros back.

When was that confirmed? I was under the impression, that we either assumed Xemnas was the holder of Terra's heart, or that some of Terra's memories leaked into Xemnas which is why he called Aqua's armor "friend".
 

KevVentus

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When was it specifically stated that Xehanort's looking for his body? I know it's been implied but I think we're just making assumptions. We are a smart bunch though so they're often times right.
 

Pratiko

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When was it specifically stated that Xehanort's looking for his body? I know it's been implied but I think we're just making assumptions. We are a smart bunch though so they're often times right.

Well, Xemnas sent a group of Org. XIII members to Castle Oblivion for more than one reason. One of those reasons was to find Ven's location.
 

KevVentus

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Mhm. I always thought of that more as part of Xemnas' motivation than Xehanort's. It would also be the same part of him that was talking to Aqua's armor
 

Nayru's Love

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I made this theory a while back about how Ven's heart was asleep inside his body, reason being that some form of his heart flew away during his Awakening. Whatever form that was, it made it into Sora.

Well, Xemnas sent a group of Org. XIII members to Castle Oblivion for more than one reason. One of those reasons was to find Ven's location.

Xemnas could be looking for either the Chamber of Waking or Ven's body. Or, both.
 

KevVentus

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How exactly would Xemnas have known that? I'm not questioning that he does, because it's clear he's looking for the Chamber of Waking... but the only person that should have known about Ven being in Castle Oblivion should have been Aqua

In fact, the only other people that should know Ven's even in a comatose state are Yen Sid and Mickey

Did Xemnas just make an educated guess?
 

Cosmic+Amarna

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Xemnas took some of Sora's memories in KH1 final mix. Aqua's armor may have, Or he may know some of these things subconsciously and only glimpses are recalled.
 

Sephiroth0812

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When was that confirmed? I was under the impression, that we either assumed Xemnas was the holder of Terra's heart, or that some of Terra's memories leaked into Xemnas which is why he called Aqua's armor "friend".

It wasn't confirmed.
The only things we know for sure are that Xemnas had mixed memories of both Master Xehanort and Terra and that he was apparently obsessed with finding the Chamber of Waking in Castle Oblivion and finding Ventus. Why he had that obsession is not yet clear, it can be influenced by several things.
Xemnas was also obsessed with memories and wanted all memories of his former lives, so that could be one possibility, another one could be subtle influence by Xehanort (X-blade, Ven also was MX's pupil first and he saw him as an integral tool for his master plan) or even some subtle influence from Terra.
We simply don't know the reasons yet, as well as we don't know if Xemnas's goals regarding the chamber and its secrets were malevolent or benevolent in nature.

When was it specifically stated that Xehanort's looking for his body? I know it's been implied but I think we're just making assumptions. We are a smart bunch though so they're often times right.

It wasn't specifically stated that Xemnas looks for Ven's body in particular. It was only stated that Xemnas was obsessed with finding the chamber and that he and Xigbar knew what's inside it.
Reasons for that have not been unveiled yet.

Well, Xemnas sent a group of Org. XIII members to Castle Oblivion for more than one reason. One of those reasons was to find Ven's location.

The main reasons Xemnas sent a group of members to Castle Oblivion were to experiment with memories and also with Sora, giving order to lure him to the castle for whatever reason.
Marluxia then took the whole thing too far and tried to make Sora his puppet.
The last main reason was to weed out the traitors Xemnas had already suspected.

The search for th Chamber of Waking was kept a secret, only Xemnas, Xigbar, Saix and Axel knew of it. Axel was the one member that was sent more than one time to Castle Oblivion by Xemnas's urging to find the chamber. That was also the reason he remained longer in C.O. after Chain of Memories and just came back several Days later, he was searching the Castle on Xemnas's orders for the chamber.
It was said in Days-dialogue that Saix was also very interested in securing the chamber, but for his own goals and not for Xemnas:

358/2 Days said:
Saïx: The castle hasn't given up all its secrets. And there's one in particular Lord Xemnas is especially interested in.

Axel: You mean the chamber. We turned that place inside out. If it's there, we're not gonna find it by just looking.

Saïx: Hmm... Then let me give you another incentive. Naminé isn't the only one who can trace her beginnings to Castle Oblivion. Xion comes from there, too.

Axel: Huh?

Saïx: Two of your favorite people. Still think another visit is a waste of time?

Axel: Hmph... Whatever. You're the one who wants me to go. Don't try and dress it up as a favor.

Saïx: Hmph.

Axel: Let me guess... That chamber will tell you everything you don't know about Xemnas's true agenda. Is that the idea?

Saïx: The Chamber of Repose, and it's antipode, the Chamber of Waking... Xemnas isn't telling us something. And the missing chamber, the Chamber of Waking--it holds all the answers. We need those answers to gain the upper hand--for our own reasons.

Mhm. I always thought of that more as part of Xemnas' motivation than Xehanort's. It would also be the same part of him that was talking to Aqua's armor

It's way too early to say which of all this was Xemnas's own, which was Xehanort's, which maybe Terra's or which even possibly Eraqus's motivation.
For that we know not enough about Xemnas's true composition.
Heck, we don't even know for what he wanted to find the chamber so badly.

I made this theory a while back about how Ven's heart was asleep inside his body, reason being that some form of his heart flew away during his Awakening. Whatever form that was, it made it into Sora.

Xemnas could be looking for either the Chamber of Waking or Ven's body. Or, both.

That was more of a metaphysical and symbolic scene though. While I do think that Ven's injured heart struggled on for a while after that and was still "there", but so badly wounded not even Yen Sid could sense it anymore (evidenced by Ven still being able to summon his keyblade to open the way to Land of Departure when carried by Aqua and by the fact that when Sora reached out to him he was already in the Chamber), it left later.
After Sora had called for him his heart finally left and followed their connection into Sora's heart, knowing it would not be able to struggle on much longer.
("But now, I need to go back to sleep.") This or something similar was said by the wounded heart when Sora held it in his hands, giving the above some credibility.

I'm assuming both, as Xigbar clearly hinted at the "other friend" in his typical troll talk to Zexion.

Ven is in that chamber, as said by Xigbar.

Correct.

How exactly would Xemnas have known that? I'm not questioning that he does, because it's clear he's looking for the Chamber of Waking... but the only person that should have known about Ven being in Castle Oblivion should have been Aqua

In fact, the only other people that should know Ven's even in a comatose state are Yen Sid and Mickey

Did Xemnas just make an educated guess?

About the chamber it would be easily explainable if Xemnas also had some memories of Eraqus. After all, he told Aqua about that mechanism.
Furthermore, who knows what knowledge Xemnas gained in all his sessions in the Chamber of Repose?
Heck, maybe Xemnas even has Terra's wayfinder, granting him a magical connection to Aqua.
If you remember KH 2 Xemnas is an excellent actor, so he would be more than capable of impersonating "Terra", especially if he had some of his memories, which is confirmed.

Well, remember, Xemnas talks to Aqua's armor from time to time, and Xigbar could have sworn that one time he heard the armor talk back.

Either this, or Xemnas somehow gained knowledge from that chamber in another way.

I meant we don't know what he's interested in.

Exactly, we only know what Xemnas was obsessed about, not why he was. ;)
 

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Good idea, but what about the fact that Vanitas seems to be connected to YMX/MF? That could be the 'body of darkness' needed. And if Xemnas had mixed memories of Terra and Master Xehanort, then wouldn't Ansem SoD also have those?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Good idea, but what about the fact that Vanitas seems to be connected to YMX/MF? That could be the 'body of darkness' needed. And if Xemnas had mixed memories of Terra and Master Xehanort, then wouldn't Ansem SoD also have those?

We don't yet know what of Vanitas is connected to the Mysterious Figure. Is it his heart of darkness? That one should be as badly crippled as Ven's is after the X-blade got destroyed (not to mention that Vanitas also got his ass kicked by Ven big time in their last fight).
It can also be only his leftover mind/will and/or consciousness which is attached to the MF.
I also strongly doubt that the MF would provide his own body for Vanitas to use.

About Ansem SoD we don't know yet, although Nomura hinted at something of Terra being there which remained within Riku after Ansem SoD was finally purged from his heart.
How Eraqus's, Terra's and MX's memories, powers and hearts were divided between Ansem SoD and Xemnas is one of the big mysteries in the series which is rumored to be addressed in the newest game, Dream Drop Distance.
The chances are there that we'll see more clear on this issue when we have played DDD. ;)
 
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We don't yet know what of Vanitas is connected to the Mysterious Figure. Is it his heart of darkness? That one should be as badly crippled as Ven's is after the X-blade got destroyed (not to mention that Vanitas also got his ass kicked by Ven big time in their last fight).
It can also be only his leftover mind/will and/or consciousness which is attached to the MF.
I also strongly doubt that the MF would provide his own body for Vanitas to use.

About Ansem SoD we don't know yet, although Nomura hinted at something of Terra being there which remained within Riku after Ansem SoD was finally purged from his heart.
How Eraqus's, Terra's and MX's memories, powers and hearts were divided between Ansem SoD and Xemnas is one of the big mysteries in the series which is rumored to be addressed in the newest game, Dream Drop Distance.
The chances are there that we'll see more clear on this issue when we have played DDD. ;)

I disagree with the whole YMX/Vanitas connection in its entirety. We only see Van when YMX is talking to Sora about captured hearts. Notice that Van isn't there before or after that line (the after in the 2/14 trailer). This shows that only Sora is seeing Van. Because he has Ven's heart. And Van is apparently still in there somewhere.

So Van and Sora are connected, not so much YMX/Van.
 

Nayru's Love

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That was more of a metaphysical and symbolic scene though. While I do think that Ven's injured heart struggled on for a while after that and was still "there", but so badly wounded not even Yen Sid could sense it anymore (evidenced by Ven still being able to summon his keyblade to open the way to Land of Departure when carried by Aqua and by the fact that when Sora reached out to him he was already in the Chamber), it left later.
After Sora had called for him his heart finally left and followed their connection into Sora's heart, knowing it would not be able to struggle on much longer.

Awakenings are still completely separate from the physical world, though. If they were merely symbolic, then the Awakening fight shouldn't have even happened since Ven and Vanitas fused perfectly in the physical world.

I disagree with the whole YMX/Vanitas connection in its entirety. We only see Van when YMX is talking to Sora about captured hearts. Notice that Van isn't there before or after that line (the after in the 2/14 trailer). This shows that only Sora is seeing Van. Because he has Ven's heart. And Van is apparently still in there somewhere.

So Van and Sora are connected, not so much YMX/Van.

While I agree that YMX and Vanitas aren't directly connected (as in, Van's heart is in YMX), I wouldn't go so far as to make those assumptions. There's not enough material for us to be jumping at conclusions like that.
 
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