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If Kingdom Hearts II was entirely Roxas' game



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Daydreamer

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I'm not sure. It would've been interesting to play out more of Roxas's story in KH2 if it was more about him starting to recall more memories and learning about Organization XIII. If it was more of those irritating mini-games that you had to do with the jobs to get munny, then no, it wouldn't have been that great.

I think KH2's problem was the writing. It wasn't playing as Sora that was bad, it was the story that we went through as we played as Sora that wasn't very good. Sora was great in KH1, but he was pretty much the opposite in KH2. This was because of how he was written and the lack of substance in the plot. I don't think playing as Roxas would've been able to change the mediocre writing that KH2 suffered from.
 

Lonbilly

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[*]358/2 Days did not exist. Xion does not exist

While I think it would be best to pretend Days never happened, I would have had the important plot points from Days been added into KH2 so there wouldn't be a need for Days, and have Xion actually be remembered Roxas during his journey in KH2.

Roxas decides that he wants to escape DiZ's digital Twilight Town and kidnaps Namine to force her to help him discover a way out of the world. He escapes and finds the real Sora slumbering inside the pod and wonders why he was ever involved with him. He allows Namine to tend to Sora while he goes out and carves his own path. Plus instead of him being a special nobody, he is allowed to feel through using his connection to Sora's heart to feel while Sora slumbers.

Oh how I love this idea <33333333333333333333

roxas was cool, x3 til days came out.

That's because his character got turned into an Xion-obsessed, "let's be a jerk to Axel after he saved my life" kid.
 

*TwilightNight*

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roxas was cool, x3 til days came out.

Then [B]coded[/B] fixed it again in an awesome way.

Thank gawd he keeps his [B]KH2[/B] characterization, after all.



While I think it would be best to pretend Days never happened, I would have had the important plot points from Days been added into KH2 so there wouldn't be a need for Days, and have Xion actually be remembered Roxas during his journey in KH2.

Xion wasn't thought of properly by then, if at all. It would have still never happened, or there wouldn't be anything to remember, because Days was a retcon that didn't exist in those times. Unlike how BBS was coming into fruition along with KH2, and it got hinted at in the game.
 

Lonbilly

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Xion wasn't thought of properly by then, if at all.

Nomura said he got her in his mind by then already, and if the game had been a Roxas one I wouldn't have doubted he would come up with Xion and what happened during Days and just thrown it in KH2.

It would have still never happened, or there wouldn't be anything to remember, because Days was a retcon that didn't exist in those times.

Neither did a full-Roxas game, but things could have changed. If KH2 was all about Roxas finding out who he is, his past and such and not cut short by KH2 then chances are some of the events from Days would have been told in KH2 or at least mentions of Xion.

I also would have left the Deep Dive scene the way it was in Days for KH2 but without Xion's voice, since that part really bothered me and made me go "WTF?!"
 

*TwilightNight*

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Nomura said he got her in his mind by then already, and if the game had been a Roxas one I wouldn't have doubted he would come up with Xion and what happened during Days and just thrown it in KH2.

Neither did a full-Roxas game, but things could have changed. If KH2 was all about Roxas finding out who he is, his past and such and not cut short by KH2 then chances are some of the events from Days would have been told in KH2 or at least mentions of Xion.

I also would have left the Deep Dive scene the way it was in Days for KH2 but without Xion's voice, since that part really bothered me and made me go "WTF?!"

Nomura says a lot things. But the only aspect he had ever gotten was "Roxas left because of a girl". Which I hate the notion of anyway: a man has to find out an Organization full of heartless people are asses because of a woman? Get serious. Especially since there were other blatant options available for Roxas to dump them.

And I honestly don't believe that, even if it was a Roxas game. Despite that he had this "idea" (and since he excuses most of his asspulls, I'm using it in quotes), he never, once, ever, gave a basic hint or clue at it whatsoever. You would have thought that if he had it in his brain (like BBS. He said he had this "girl" thought by the end of KH1 while BBS was around KH2, so it makes it even more odd) that he would at least leave some mystery open-ended, about some "girl", to then connect it to the game that he might or might not do. Picture, artifact. It wouldn't have made everything feel random and out of left field, and the players could be "ohh, so that's it".

Didn't happen at all.

And I'm honestly already doubting if Nomura even remembers parts of his own series. I can't truthfully say I trust his judgment by this point :/.
 

Lonbilly

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Nomura says a lot things. But the only aspect he had ever gotten was "Roxas left because of a girl". Which I hate the notion of anyway: a man has to find out an Organization full of heartless people are asses because of a woman? Get serious. Especially since there were other blatant options available for Roxas to dump them.

I have to agree. He already knew the Org. was using him, that everyone betrayed him and were keeping secrets about who and what he was, even Axel. That should have been reason enough, which he still would have left the Org. on with or without Xion, I only think she helped in the act of making him leave.

Despite that he had this "idea" (and since he excuses most of his asspulls, I'm using it in quotes), he never, once, ever, gave a basic hint or clue at it whatsoever.

Give or take the picture in KH2 where it has Roxas and Axel, the other two looked like hooded Riku and Xion, so it's possible. But still, I agree there should have been more hints or something.

You would have thought that if he had it in his brain (like BBS. He said he had this "girl" thought by the end of KH1 while BBS was around KH2, so it makes it even more odd)

I don't think he did have it in his mind at the end of KH1 to be honest, since we would have at least heard something hinting towards it from CoM and KH2. But then again Nomura said he did leave a lot out of KH2 which he wanted in, and even FM+ wasn't really enough to make up for that. So it is entirely possible he was bsing.

And I'm honestly already doubting if Nomura even remembers parts of his own series. I can't truthfully say I trust his judgment by this point :/.

Yeah, he keeps contradicting a bunch of stuff said in KH1 and other titles so much it seems like it. He shouldn't even try to change it and just roll with what he had, because then he could have thought of something else more creative and such.

But either way, if KH2 had been a Roxas game I would have wanted Xion and pieces of Days story in it, be it existing or not, so that way we wouldn't need Days and Roxas would have had more motivation for revenge, and the memory of his best friends.
 

*TwilightNight*

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I have to agree. He already knew the Org. was using him, that everyone betrayed him and were keeping secrets about who and what he was, even Axel. That should have been reason enough, which he still would have left the Org. on with or without Xion, I only think she helped in the act of making him leave.

Agreed.

Give or take the picture in KH2 where it has Roxas and Axel, the other two looked like hooded Riku and Xion, so it's possible. But still, I agree there should have been more hints or something.

Except that image looked way too feminine, with too mmany curves, as well as tall (woman-like, some say it's man-like), to resemble Xion, who no doubt would be shorter if meant to look like Kairi, a girl. Then you have Naminé herself drawing Xion in Days, and it looks nothing like the figure from the mansion.

I don't think he did have it in his mind at the end of KH1 to be honest, since we would have at least heard something hinting towards it from CoM and KH2. But then again Nomura said he did leave a lot out of KH2 which he wanted in, and even FM+ wasn't really enough to make up for that. So it is entirely possible he was bsing.

Yeah, he keeps contradicting a bunch of stuff said in KH1 and other titles so much it seems like it. He shouldn't even try to change it and just roll with what he had, because then he could have thought of something else more creative and such.

It's hard to really know anymore, lol. Every time he states anything, I look at it critically to see if it makes sense.

But either way, if KH2 had been a Roxas game I would have wanted Xion and pieces of Days story in it, be it existing or not, so that way we wouldn't need Days and Roxas would have had more motivation for revenge, and the memory of his best friends.

In the end, though, Roxas's life in the Organization wasn't that much of a big deal. The only thing that was ever a mystery was the dual wielding, and we know how that turned out once the BBS Ultimania came through. Which most guessed it's what it was. If KH2 was Roxas's game, Days itself wouldn't have been needed, because the simple answers (like why he left, dual wielding again, or what did he do) that would have explained what happened in the missing time would have been there, either by flashbacks, or by how he slowly got his memories back, etc. We spent 200 or 300 days in 358/2 Days doing nothing. Xion was a plot device to make it somewhat interesting (despite that there could have been other ideas, but I regress). So you can really say that if we had Roxas in a full blown PS2 disc, then they wouldn't have to put in a plot device in the first place. Pack that with the lack of Xion's existence in that time, then, yeah. Roxas couldn't defeat Xemnas even if he wanted to, which he would find out on his journey once everything became clear. That could even play another coerced part on why he has to return to Sora. Xemnas wants to take over the universe: there's enough motivation in that. I doubt the boy would be that selfish to let everything go to waste because he wants his life.

And the memory of Axel, his BFF, or the members he interacted with would be fine enough, I think. RAX felt forced to me in the end: it was "insert girl here" because...to insert. They also had Naminé.

It's a juggle. There could be many things. You might like RAX or one character now that Days is out, but who knows if there would have even been a RAX. Or what parts could have been implemented or not. Xion herself wouldn't be forgotten, or be a memory clone to be easily forgotten by everyone and their mother without having Naminé have some random new power to affect those not connected to Sora if KH2 was with Roxas. And the stuff was thought of by then. Lots of elements could change.
 

Organization_42

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I actually remember reading a really good fanfic with this premise, more or less. Instead of trying to bring Roxas back, Xemnas decided to kidnap Namine and Sora instead, knowing that DiZ and Riku were more worried about guarding Roxas than them. So instead of going back to Sora, Roxas managed to escape and sort of reluctantly tagged along with Mickey, Riku, and Leon's gang while trying to figure out who he really was and what he wanted to do. It was really suspenseful, the characterization was spot-on, and...sadly, the author never finished it and hasn't updated in years. But I wish I could write like that, and let me tell you, if the plot of KH2 had been THAT, I would've bought it.

That being said, I had another "What if?" idea. There's a part in the novels when Axel's about to fight Roxas for the last time and, upon realizing that the Organization's been manipulating them all along, briefly considers just taking off with him instead of following orders. I wonder, what if Axel had actually made this suggestion to Roxas and then they both ran away from the Organization, and then KH2 became a two-scenario game? In one scenario, Sora finally wakes up and goes on his merry way with Donald and Goofy. The second, darker scenario would be about Axel, Roxas, Namine, and Riku trying to figure out what to do next and avoid getting captured by the Org. Because I think the biggest story problem in KH2 was that the really interesting stuff was NOT happening to Sora. The really interesting, plot-relevant stuff was happening to Axel, Namine, and Riku. Focus at least part of the game on them, with Roxas as the protagonist, and there you go. Problem solved.
 

*TwilightNight*

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I feel sad and glad, Org_42. Sad, because it's funny that a fan can write this better than the director could, and glad, because it actually exists somewhere. Nonetheless:

I actually remember reading a really good fanfic with this premise, more or less. Instead of trying to bring Roxas back, Xemnas decided to kidnap Namine and Sora instead, knowing that DiZ and Riku were more worried about guarding Roxas than them. So instead of going back to Sora, Roxas managed to escape and sort of reluctantly tagged along with Mickey, Riku, and Leon's gang while trying to figure out who he really was and what he wanted to do. It was really suspenseful, the characterization was spot-on, and...sadly, the author never finished it and hasn't updated in years. But I wish I could write like that, and let me tell you, if the plot of KH2 had been THAT, I would've bought it.

That being said, I had another "What if?" idea. There's a part in the novels when Axel's about to fight Roxas for the last time and, upon realizing that the Organization's been manipulating them all along, briefly considers just taking off with him instead of following orders. I wonder, what if Axel had actually made this suggestion to Roxas and then they both ran away from the Organization, and then KH2 became a two-scenario game? In one scenario, Sora finally wakes up and goes on his merry way with Donald and Goofy. The second, darker scenario would be about Axel, Roxas, Namine, and Riku trying to figure out what to do next and avoid getting captured by the Org. Because I think the biggest story problem in KH2 was that the really interesting stuff was NOT happening to Sora. The really interesting, plot-relevant stuff was happening to Axel, Namine, and Riku. Focus at least part of the game on them, with Roxas as the protagonist, and there you go. Problem solved.

s1elleface​
 

Organization_42

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I know what you mean. I think this thread is actually making me feel depressed because I start thinking about what could have been. I can give you a link to the fanfic, if you want, but it ends on a cliffhanger and it just kills me that the author never finished it. But still, it was amazing. Roxas and Axel are in character. Xemnas has a scheme that's actually pretty clever, to the point that I can't understand why he didn't think to do it in the game. AND THE PRIDE LANDS HAS ACTUAL PLOT SIGNIFICANCE! :D

You've brought up a really good point yourself, Twi, that if Roxas had been the protagonist, Days would've been unnescessary because we would've had all the answers we needed. *sigh* On the other hand, then we wouldn't have gotten multiplayer, and I actually really enjoy Multiplayer Mode. If only Nomura had gone through with his original idea for a Dissidia-style game, but he thought Disney would never go for it. And sadly, he was probably right.
 

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That being said, I had another "What if?" idea. There's a part in the novels when Axel's about to fight Roxas for the last time and, upon realizing that the Organization's been manipulating them all along, briefly considers just taking off with him instead of following orders. I wonder, what if Axel had actually made this suggestion to Roxas and then they both ran away from the Organization, and then KH2 became a two-scenario game? In one scenario, Sora finally wakes up and goes on his merry way with Donald and Goofy. The second, darker scenario would be about Axel, Roxas, Namine, and Riku trying to figure out what to do next and avoid getting captured by the Org. Because I think the biggest story problem in KH2 was that the really interesting stuff was NOT happening to Sora. The really interesting, plot-relevant stuff was happening to Axel, Namine, and Riku. Focus at least part of the game on them, with Roxas as the protagonist, and there you go. Problem solved.

asfg;wtkh this

Except okay instead of them BOTH running away, Axel just manages to convince him in data Twilight Town. Like, makes him remember or something. Then instead of bringing him back to the Org they just run away. And now Roxas knows why Axel lied to him--he would die if he met Sora. Still, Roxas' goal is to understand who he is... so he has to come to terms with it, maybe seek out Riku again?

And maybe they help Namine escape from DiZ and bingo there is your RAN. Namine wants to go back to Kairi and perhaps she helps Roxas come to terms with his own Nobody-hood, too. Axel is selfish...

And that's why he sacrifices himself in the end, to let them get back to their others (like why he kidnapped Kairi in the novels lol), but also because he comes to terms with the fact that he isn't special like they are and doesn't really have a place in their fate. ;A;

In any case Roxas is still going to be bitchy and "less talking more Keyblade in your face".

Also Sora is able to wake up because they extract the memories Roxas was stealing, but it just returns to how things worked through the end of KH1 and all of CoM: Sora didn't need Roxas that much. Or, Namine even said in Days (*crosses self*) that she could wake Sora up without those memories.

Kairi could be more useful because Namine goes back to her early-on in the game, perhaps Axel kidnaps her for this? Instead of Riku and Saix taking her after that, she is just brought to Namine? Then maybe Kairi would be stuck with Axel and Roxas (Axel may have promised to bring her to Sora like in KH2), and would maybe have to learn from them? Or perhaps they would take her to Riku...
 
A

Azrael

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Then [B]coded[/B] fixed it again in an awesome way.

Thank gawd he keeps his [B]KH2[/B] characterization, after all.





Xion wasn't thought of properly by then, if at all. It would have still never happened, or there wouldn't be anything to remember, because Days was a retcon that didn't exist in those times. Unlike how BBS was coming into fruition along with KH2, and it got hinted at in the game.

Easy. Have Namine be the girl who gets Roxas to leave. Xion needed not exist.
 

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If KH2 was entirely Roxas's game...

I would play it over.and over.and over.
 

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That being said, I had another "What if?" idea. There's a part in the novels when Axel's about to fight Roxas for the last time and, upon realizing that the Organization's been manipulating them all along, briefly considers just taking off with him instead of following orders. I wonder, what if Axel had actually made this suggestion to Roxas and then they both ran away from the Organization, and then KH2 became a two-scenario game? In one scenario, Sora finally wakes up and goes on his merry way with Donald and Goofy. The second, darker scenario would be about Axel, Roxas, Namine, and Riku trying to figure out what to do next and avoid getting captured by the Org. Because I think the biggest story problem in KH2 was that the really interesting stuff was NOT happening to Sora. The really interesting, plot-relevant stuff was happening to Axel, Namine, and Riku. Focus at least part of the game on them, with Roxas as the protagonist, and there you go. Problem solved.

That would have been pretty good, actually, you could keep Sora's story the way it was, or maybe change a few things, and then have the second disc/scenario explaining the other side of things. I'd play that.
 

bluefroggygirl

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If KH2 was entirely Roxas' game, Ven probably wouldn't look the way he is, just saying xP.

If Roxas was the main character, then we'd probably get to see a lot more of the Organization which is a win :3
 
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