idea about a remake. (Fun discussion)

[Sonofjafar]

If they ever do remake the dark seeker arc in any capacity, I vote we go with BBS, 1. COM, 2. DDD, And 3 in that order. Basically keep things simple with 3 numbered and 3 spinoffs

 

[BufferAqua]

You make a valid point as I believe skipping a game doesn't help with the storytelling and the way you get attached to the characters.

Dunno, I've had people enjoy the CoM cutscenes more than actually playing the game. I don't really care how people enjoy the series either way though.

Edit: Oh I just realized you meant skipping the game lol. Sorry I just woke up. In that case I'll say that at least they're just watching the cutscenes instead of skipping it entirely. Skipping entirely would cause issues yeah.

This is inherently a cynical and complainy post I'm about to make, but if we really do wanna talk about "people deciding to watch youtube videos instead of play the game", I would say that's not limited to CoM; there's so many instances I've experienced in so many different series of people asking "can't I just skip all the games to get to the newest one? I can watch a youtube summary or something? if you say I should play all the games you're gatekeeping". CoM might stand out for its unpopularity within the fandom, but outside of it, the average gamer just wants to get to 3 as fast as possible because it's the new one and has a number in the title. You can observe the same happening with No More Heroes 3, Metal Gear Solid V: TPP, etc. So in my own experiences I don't really see "people who nominally want to play the game don't want to play the game" as a design flaw. Just business as usual.

It just doesn't really feel good for me to say, because a problem with gamers isn't actually an addressable problem. I can (rightly) call them dumb all I want but nobody can stop human beings from being dumb about things sometimes, so...

These are fair points. I do believe a good chunk of it is rushing to get to 3. I guess I'm mostly referring to people who actually are interested in the side games. Usually they're okay with playing Days and Coded, as well as enjoying DDD and BBS. But when it comes to ReCoM, the combat turns them off *so much* to the point where they just want to watch the cutscenes. I think it's valid because the card system in that game is very easily broken and definitely not for everyone. Especially since it's already so different from the other games.

But for other types of people, like those who just want to get to 3, then I completely agree with you.

 

[Face My Fears]

I blame the card system because I can break the entire game and any challenge out of any boss battle with one sleight.

Which one? I didn't even know that. They can obviously fix that by nerfing whichever one that is. On top of that, you act like KH2 wasn't super easy to break? Reflect is calling. I destroyed all the Data Battles and Lingering Will just spamming Reflect and going into Ultima.

Good point. The emptyness of the disney world doesn't help. Also, I am mostly watching streamers who quit the game because of its repetitivity but maybe most players play it.

If you take a step back, KH1, 2 and 3 have "repetitive" worlds - as in heartless pop up and you kill them. The difference between the main title worlds and CoM's worlds is the fact that the main title worlds have depth while the CoM are literally boxes with a DISNEY world slapped on it. You walk around Atlantica, they don't even both to give Sora a form change. There's no reason to go through a DISNEY world besides to kill time to the next story cutscene. You don't need to go back to the DISNEY worlds and there's nothing specific in those worlds to go back to do.

Speaking of why Days and Coded are just cutscenes, if I had to guess, it's because they learned their lesson from CoM. If people think that the card system "bored" people to skip CoM, then I can't imagine Days or Coded's gameplay on a PS3 and how fast people would skip those. Honestly, I think the reason is simply that unless they overhauled A LOT from Days or Coded, it wouldn't be good as a direct port. CoM needed a revision (the gameplay could use tweaks, but so many other things needed to be fixed to justify being a PS2 game besides giving us voiced cutscenes).

 

[Chie]

The reason Days and Coded weren't ported is almost certainly because all the game-exclusive assets were very, very low res and they didn't want to spend time redoing everything when they were already porting four other games.

I do think every player should play the actual DS games, and that they have skipped a game if they watched the ""movie"". I'd say "and the GBA CoM too", since I massively respect playing the most original version of a given game, but PS2 does have the Zexion fight and also you get to see Larxene kick Sora across the room in 3D, which is probably the most important change. (As someone who replayed KH1 Final Mix recently, I've become a bit skeptical about starting with the Final Mixes too, since the synthesis in that version is totally fucked up...)

 

[BufferAqua]

Which one? I didn't even know that. They can obviously fix that by nerfing whichever one that is. On top of that, you act like KH2 wasn't super easy to break? Reflect is calling. I destroyed all the Data Battles and Lingering Will just spamming Reflect and going into Ultima.

Lethal Frame. Iirc, you can defeat almost every boss with that move, with the exception being the final Marluxia boss. Sonic Blade can be used to. They aren't going to nerf a super old game. Also, yeah, I won't defend KH2 lol. But that's a main game title so people are going to be inclined to play that. Plus, ReCoM doesn't have the mass appeal with its combat like KH2 does.

(As someone who replayed KH1 Final Mix recently, I've become a bit skeptical about starting with the Final Mixes too, since the synthesis in that version is totally fucked up...)

Honestly, I started with the Final Mixes and I don't think they're too bad. I do think people should absolutely play Days, since the movie cuts so much content. But for ReCoded, I think watching the movie for that is fine considering how generally irrelevant the plot of that game is. That being said, ReCoded is a fun and cute gimmicky game, so I'd recommending playing that anyway.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Speaking of why Days and Coded are just cutscenes, if I had to guess, it's because they learned their lesson from CoM. If people think that the card system "bored" people to skip CoM, then I can't imagine Days or Coded's gameplay on a PS3 and how fast people would skip those. Honestly, I think the reason is simply that unless they overhauled A LOT from Days or Coded, it wouldn't be good as a direct port. CoM needed a revision (the gameplay could use tweaks, but so many other things needed to be fixed to justify being a PS2 game besides giving us voiced cutscenes).

That's not why they turned days and coded into movies, Nomura said that if they fully remade Days, it would have delayed the development of KH3 by a year, it was in a Nomura interview for HD 1.5 remix, he also said that about the online for BBS for HD 2.5 remix, and we can assume the same about recoded, and please don't ask for a link to the interview, I don't know how to do links, all I can tell you is that it was for one or both of the HD remixes, that's all I can say.

 

[Chie]

Honestly, I started with the Final Mixes and I don't think they're too bad.

None are "bad" but it's simply true that KH1 Final Mix redoes the whole synthesis progression to require much more grinding to get the Ultima Weapon. You can't do most of the synthesis unless you go repeatedly fight the new rare encounters they added - this is of course to build this version around those encounters for players in Japan who had recently played the original. This is also not "bad" but it does make Final Mix a different game, especially since you get synthesis materials as rewards from most treasure chests, so the whole game is affected by it.

 

[AegisXIII]

That's not why they turned days and coded into movies, Nomura said that if they fully remade Days, it would have delayed the development of KH3 by a year, it was in a Nomura interview for HD 1.5 remix, he also said that about the online for BBS for HD 2.5 remix, and we can assume the same about recoded, and please don't ask for a link to the interview, I don't know how to do links, all I can tell you is that it was for one or both of the HD remixes, that's all I can say.

You are indeed correct. But what I do not understand is that usually these ports are made by a different team. So I do not understand why it would have slowed down KH3 development. Maybe the assets team (modelling and environment creation) has to remain the same across projects.

 

[vaderskywalker]

You are indeed correct. But what I do not understand is that usually these ports are made by a different team. So I do not understand why it would have slowed down KH3 development. Maybe the assets team (modelling and environment creation) has to remain the same across projects.

I don't get it Ethier, but I'm not a game developer so I wouldn't know, but maybe they had to have some input from the other team I guess? I Don't know.

 

[AegisXIII]

I don't get it Ethier, but I'm not a game developer so I wouldn't know, but maybe they had to have some input from the other team I guess? I Don't know.

Or maybe it's just that Disney's time is very limited and things move slowly with the back and forth. XD

 

[Chie]

I had a whole post written up about why I think they definitely would have needed to use the KH team to make higher res versions of the DS assets (or at least, who better than the KH team to recreate KH assets?), but there's too many variables I don't know for sure so I decided not to post it. But basically, if you were to render a PS2 game in HD it wouldn't look that different than the ports in the HD collections at all. DS games, not so much.

The thing I'm not sure of is whether higher res versions of the DS assets already existed. You'd think they wouldn't (all renders of the Days exclusive bosses are definitely their DS models), but higher res versions of the BBS assets seem to have definitely existed ahead of time. The PSP is higher res than the DS, so perhaps this makes sense... but assuming they didn't exist, yeah, they would have to recreate them from scratch, and like I said, the KH team would definitely be the best suited to making models in the KH art style.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Or maybe it's just that Disney's time is very limited and things move slowly with the back and forth. XD

What does XD mean?

 

[AegisXIII]

It means:
But it never attaches the emoji to it.

 

[vaderskywalker]

It means:
But it never attaches the emoji to it.

Oh, okay.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

Someone else mentioned it but I like the idea of Yozora dealing with the live action remakes. Its a way of remaking 1/2 without actually remaking 1 or 2.

I'd prefer Noctis but Yozora is good enough.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Someone else mentioned it but I like the idea of Yozora dealing with the live action remakes. Its a way of remaking 1/2 without actually remaking 1 or 2.

I'd prefer Noctis but Yozora is good enough.

But how would that work, they would still be worlds of fiction, now I could see Flubber working, it would fit right in with unreality, because the movie made references to a few Disney things, but the remakes themselves would still be fictional, not against it just don't see how.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

But how would that work, they would still be worlds of fiction, now I could see Flubber working, it would fit right in with unreality, because the movie made references to a few Disney things, but the remakes themselves would still be fictional, not against it just don't see how.

Disney the company doesn't seem to exist in Kingdom Hearts. So the live action movies would just be worlds Noct or Yozora visits. Yozora is theorized to be from a different worldline so the live action remakes are just his universe's version of those worlds.

But not every movie would get their own world. Flubber could be just a summon.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Disney the company doesn't seem to exist in Kingdom Hearts. So the live action movies would just be worlds Noct or Yozora visits. Yozora is theorized to be from a different worldline so the live action remakes are just his universe's version of those worlds.

But not every movie would get their own world. Flubber could be just a summon.

Your right, it doesn't exist on sora and the gang's side of reality, but the Disney stuff is supposed to be fictional stuff on Yozora's side of reality, and the Verum Rex stuff, is supposed to be fictional stuff on Sora and the gang's side of reality, or at least that's the theory anyway.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

Your right, it doesn't exist on sora and the gang's side of reality, but the Disney stuff is supposed to be fictional stuff on Yozora's side of reality, and the Verum Rex stuff, is supposed to be fictional stuff on Sora and the gang's side of reality, or at least that's the theory anyway.

So it's still possible.

 

[vaderskywalker]

So it's still possible.

Maybe, unlikely though.