idea about a remake. (Fun discussion)

[Elysium]

For me, a remake would not be about improving KH1...simply about seeing those worlds and that story in pretty graphics and 3D/3-sized scope. I'm not as interested in a CoM or Days remake like I am KH1 or even KH2. CoM is mostly in one hallway all the time and Days is nothing but missions. The advantage to the worlds wouldn't be as big as with 1 and 2. I mean, I'd be fine with only a remake of 1, but I admit 2 had horrible level design, it would be awesome to get a remake of it with worlds that aren't a mess.

 

[palizinhas]

I find KH1/2 so perfectly playable as is it feels completely unnecessary to remake it, especially when the old graphics are so much of the first game in particular's charm.

Remakes for me are about reinventing a game - I'd never buy a remake that is just the same game but it looks a bit different unless it was a game that isn't easily obtainable, which isn't the case for the KH main games.

I can kind of see those almost 1:1 remakes for games that were meant to look the sharpest possible and got old so now they don't have that out of the world quality that helped sell it, but KH has always been meant to look cartoony.

 

[Chie]

KH looking the way it does is also maintained as a 'truth' in future games, with flashbacks to previous games being the actual scenes from those games.

A lot of discussion like this tends to look at games as some sort of representation of an objective truth of what happened in the story, so you can change up the visual representation (graphics) and medium of interaction (gameplay) all you want and have no effect on the story "inside" it. But that's not true. The games are objects that exist in our reality; they don't convey a story, they are a story.

To see the worlds represented better (i.e. a Wonderland that isn't a bunch of little puzzle boxes - itself a valid artistic decision!), it makes more sense to simply see them in a new game that's actually created with more dynamic environments in mind.

 

[Elysium]

Necessary isn't the word I would use for a remake of 1--something fun they could do is how I think of it. I don't see the point of remakes that radically alter everything, they are no longer "remakes."

 

[Face My Fears]

Yes I am not a big fan of the card system either. And that's not because I don't like playing it, but more because I see everyone skipping this game because of it. That's a design flaw to have people watching cutscenes on youtube rather than playing a game. This need to be addressed at some point.

For days, I am not sure. The game has been known to be repetitive with the missions and all and it wouldn't fit well on a console I think. A shorter version of it could be more impactful and more epic. But then, how do you develop the friendship between the trio without showing their day to day life? Days is a tricky one for sure.

But I am convinced that with full remakes, the entire dark seeker saga could fit on 5 games rather than 10 if smaller entries are fused properly.

What in the world?

How is CoM's gameplay a design flaw? It was made that way for HANDHELD play. Nothing about CoM's core mechanics should be a "flaw" because that is what the game was made to be! People should be damn happy that they can look at actual cutscenes on YouTube and not have to read text boxes from crap video recordings off a GBA screen.

Also, from what I remember CoM was VERY popular back in the day on the GBA. If anything, the PS2 version (and subsequent ones) are the unpopular ones. I personally prefer the GBA version than the PS2 version because the game itself doesn't translate well to PS2. The DISNEY worlds are empty and lifeless, there's no hub world or back tracking (that's fun), the main world (Castle Oblivion) is also empty and lifeless.

On top of all of that, the whole premise of CoM was that the cards in Castle Oblivion were being used to control Sora. It was actually pretty cool to see that control over Sora extended into his fighting. It was like a constant reminder that you weren't free, but rather trapped and under the Organization's influence. If there's anything they need to fix, is maybe make it easier to find certain cards to open doors. I think that was a design flaw because it was randomized instead of certain ways to guarantee getting the card you need to open a door to progress. The combat isn't the issue.

Anyway, I think IF they attempt to remake the Dark Seeker saga, they can blend things together and create something that's entirely new. It will require a lot of thought put into it because there will have to be really good pacing and structure. I think they could actually make it into 3 games: Re:Kingdom Hearts 1, 2, and 3.

Re:Kingdom Hearts 1: BbS (Ven's story), KH1 and CoM
Re:Kingdom Hearts 2: BbS (Terra's story), Days, KH2, and coded
Re:Kingdom Hearts 3: BbS (Aqua's story), 0.2, 3D, and KH3

 

[vaderskywalker]

What in the world?

How is CoM's gameplay a design flaw? It was made that way for HANDHELD play. Nothing about CoM's core mechanics should be a "flaw" because that is what the game was made to be! People should be damn happy that they can look at actual cutscenes on YouTube and not have to read text boxes from crap video recordings off a GBA screen.

Also, from what I remember CoM was VERY popular back in the day on the GBA. If anything, the PS2 version (and subsequent ones) are the unpopular ones. I personally prefer the GBA version than the PS2 version because the game itself doesn't translate well to PS2. The DISNEY worlds are empty and lifeless, there's no hub world or back tracking (that's fun), the main world (Castle Oblivion) is also empty and lifeless.

On top of all of that, the whole premise of CoM was that the cards in Castle Oblivion were being used to control Sora. It was actually pretty cool to see that control over Sora extended into his fighting. It was like a constant reminder that you weren't free, but rather trapped and under the Organization's influence. If there's anything they need to fix, is maybe make it easier to find certain cards to open doors. I think that was a design flaw because it was randomized instead of certain ways to guarantee getting the card you need to open a door to progress. The combat isn't the issue.

Yeah, I already made a thread about this, can you move the conversation over there, please? I don't want that thread to close, and I can't give you a link because I don't know how to give links, sorry about that, but the title is obvious, you can't miss it.

Anyway, I think IF they attempt to remake the Dark Seeker saga, they can blend things together and create something that's entirely new. It will require a lot of thought put into it because there will have to be really good pacing and structure. I think they could actually make it into 3 games: Re:Kingdom Hearts 1, 2, and 3.

Re:Kingdom Hearts 1: BbS (Ven's story), KH1 and CoM
Re:Kingdom Hearts 2: BbS (Terra's story), Days, KH2, and coded
Re:Kingdom Hearts 3: BbS (Aqua's story), 0.2, 3D, and KH3

as for the blending Idea, three games in one? yeah, I'm no programmer, but that amount of data would probably be a nightmare to program.

 

[Chie]

as for the blending Idea, three games in one? yeah, I'm no programmer, but that amount of data would probably be a nightmare to program.

No it wouldn't. There's no reason that just because we conceive these stories as "three games" means a new game reimagining those events would somehow be intrinsically difficult to program. Why would programming work like that

 

[BufferAqua]

What in the world?

How is CoM's gameplay a design flaw? It was made that way for HANDHELD play. Nothing about CoM's core mechanics should be a "flaw" because that is what the game was made to be! People should be damn happy that they can look at actual cutscenes on YouTube and not have to read text boxes from crap video recordings off a GBA screen.

Except I don't think they were referring to the GBA version. Let's be real when people watch CoM to catch up on that story, they will always watch the PS2 cutscenes. The card system in the GBA version is not a design flaw, but how the card system translates to the remake IS a design flaw. At this point, I've seen way too many people skip playing CoM for the cutscenes over ANY other game in the series. Besides arguably Days/Coded, but CoM doesn't have the excuse of not being immediately playable.

So yes, I agree that the card system for the GBA is not a design flaw. But the how the remake adapts it is entirely a design flaw. People shouldn't be happy to watch cutscenes for a game over playing it, because that just proves how poorly the remake handled the card system.

 

[AegisXIII]

Except I don't think they were referring to the GBA version. Let's be real when people watch CoM to catch up on that story, they will always watch the PS2 cutscenes. The card system in the GBA version is not a design flaw, but how the card system translates to the remake IS a design flaw. At this point, I've seen way too many people skip playing CoM for the cutscenes over ANY other game in the series. Besides arguably Days/Coded, but CoM doesn't have the excuse of not being immediately playable.

So yes, I agree that the card system for the GBA is not a design flaw. But the how the remake adapts it is entirely a design flaw. People shouldn't be happy to watch cutscenes for a game over playing it, because that just proves how poorly the remake handled the card system.

My thoughts exactly. The card system is nice. I like it at lot. But when nobody plays it on the remake, then it makes it a design flaw. That's why I thought it should have been a command deck, since cards are meant to execute sleights and no one skips BBS/DDD.

 

[Chie]

But the characters in BBS and DDD aren't in Castle Oblivion. The Command Deck isn't supposed to symbolize the characters' abilities and memories being mixed up and lost.

 

[AegisXIII]

But the characters in BBS and DDD aren't in Castle Oblivion. The Command Deck isn't supposed to symbolize the characters' abilities and memories being mixed up and lost.

I see your point. But it wouldn't necessary be impossible to create a deck system that fits with the narrative.
For chain of memories, it makes no sense that sora is stronger at the end of his journey than at the beginning since he forgets constantly. He should have started at level 100 and have its level reduced to 1 the further he goes to fight Marluxia. XD

 

[Dandelion]

Jesus I'm glad none of you make the KH series.

 

[Willow A113]

Jesus I'm glad none of you make the KH series.

I don't think any of us were being serious here. We were simply coming up with stuff that was fun to talk about.

 

[vaderskywalker]

I don't think any of us were being serious here. We were simply coming up with stuff that was fun to talk about.

Agreed

 

[AegisXIII]

I was being serious!!!!!!!

 

[vaderskywalker]

I was being serious!!!!!!!

Well, the likelihood of any of these ideas happening is 50/50, for example the remasters being a thing in the first place was an idea by the fans, years before it became a thing, so it might happen at some point or it might not, but Ethier way, I definitely know I'm enjoying these discussions, what about you?

 

[Willow A113]

I was being serious!!!!!!!

Well, I agree it'd be awesome if these things would happen but it's unlikely.

 

[Sonofjafar]

idea: a remake of the numbered kingdom hearts games with the main cast swapping roles. Also more prominent Disney characters (ie the Disney Castle crew and Maleficent) will be swapped for other Disney characters

 

[Elysium]

I don't think the cards system is a design flaw. It's more an example of gamer laziness that most people prefer cutscenes for that one. The command deck in comparison still allows the player to press X all the time, whereas the card system isn't that simple (requiring you to combine actions together to make other actions via sleights, having to do basic math...lol, etc.). There's a wide swath of people who don't like to think at all when playing a game, I imagine... I've always preferred the card system to the command deck myself, but math has never been a challenge for me and is kind of fun. I think of the command deck v. card system sort of like a basic crossword v. sudoku.

There is something about CoM's remake though that has a sterile feeling as you go through the worlds. I suppose the sprites added a lot of flavor to CoM when nothing is happening that's lost in the remake. At least, remake CoM gives me the same feeling as BbS, as far as the eeriness of nobody being around with you as you're walking around everywhere. That and the lack of NPCs make everything feel "dead." Although at least you have Donald & Goofy in the hallways between levels in the CoM remake.

 

[BufferAqua]

As someone who has played ReCoM many times, I do think it's poor design on the fact that you can literally break Sora's story with the two same sleights. Why play ReCoM Sora normally when you can use Lethal Frame on almost every boss? And the fact that CoM is skipped on a widespread level convinces me it isn't purely laziness. Most friends have tried ReCoM to a certain point, until they couldn't take it anymore and decided to watch the rest.

Original GBA CoM is lovely tho and the system makes sense there.