I was wondering...

[TehSoulCookie]

It's said in Chain of Memories that the Riku Replica has a heart. Well, since he was made by Vexen that means his heart was made by Vexen too. So if Vexen could make a heart for the Repliku then why couldn't he make ones for all of Organization XIII? I mean, it seems like a much easier solution than trying to complete Kingdom Hearts. What do you guys think?

 

[ZiggyK]

Random guess: Coz its manufactured, and they want real hearts.
Random guess (deux): Maybe he can only make them for Replicas seeing as replicas aren't actually people :S

 

[TehSoulCookie]

But then why doesn't Xion have a heart?

 

[ZiggyK]

But then why doesn't Xion have a heart?

Well.. she sort of does? Or maybe that's because shes absorbing from Roxas, but she has feelings that for sure.

Maybe it's because she was made before Repliku? Or Vexen had less time with her. Infact, im certain somewhere it says Vexen did the research but Xemnas was the one who made her.. Whereas Vexen made Repliku. Lots of different theories.

 

[Smile]

It was never said that Xion lacked a Heart. It would explain nicely how come she managed to develop her own persona the more Memories she absorbed.

 

[luna1017]

wild guess: Because they wanted their hearts. Not just any other heart.
Having another heart would probably change them.

 

[Smile]

Ansem's six apprentices willingly gave up on their own Hearts because they saw in them a hindrance.
They needed Hearts to be whole, but ones they could control, and believed Kingdom Hearts could give them that.

 

[TehSoulCookie]

Ansem's six apprentices willingly gave up on their own Hearts because they saw in them a hindrance.
They needed Hearts to be whole, but ones they could control, and believed Kingdom Hearts could give them that.

That makes sense....If they thought that Kingdom Hearts would give them controllable hearts, then that would be better than if the got hearts that were manufactured but out of control...hmmm..

 

[Goldpanner]

I think perhaps Vexen's research was for the purpose of discovering whether they could manufacture hearts. I don't think it worked, though. I mean, he could create a fake heart but it was also in a fake body; perhaps he hadn't worked out how to create one that worked with Nobody bodies... or maybe they decided that the fake Kingdom Hearts approach was a better one and ditched the whole experiment (also Vexen died anyway).

 

[TehSoulCookie]

I think perhaps Vexen's research was for the purpose of discovering whether they could manufacture hearts. I don't think it worked, though. I mean, he could create a fake heart but it was also in a fake body; perhaps he hadn't worked out how to create one that worked with Nobody bodies... or maybe they decided that the fake Kingdom Hearts approach was a better one and ditched the whole experiment (also Vexen died anyway).

Yeah, that makes sense. Xemnas probably didn't want him to complete his research anyways since Xemnas wanted Kingdom Hearts only for its power and not to become a complete person. I bet Saix was in on that, but no one else was, including Axel, though he may have had an inclining. Also Xigbar may have been in on the plan,

Spoiler Show

since Braig was a major player with MX.

 

[HeartSeams]

In BBS it is revealed that opening Kingdom Hearts made someone become a new being, something more than simply human. It could be that they didnt want just any old hearts, they wanted to become these new types of beings.

 

[Rabie]

Also, Repliku's heart was based off of Riku's, so Vexen didn't really create a heart, he took the memories and emotions from Riku's heart and replicated them inside of Repliku. So, since the organization doesn't have the hearts perfect for them already made, they can't replicate something that doesn't exist. Plus, they want perfect hearts, not knock offs. lol

 

[Bodaciously G]

The Riku Replica indeed had a heart but it sure wasn't his own. It was just copied off the original Riku and that didn't exactly make the replica feel like a whole being. Xion I am not so sure but they never did say she did not have a heart.

 

[Smile]

The Riku Replica indeed had a heart but it sure wasn't his own. It was just copied off the original Riku and that didn't exactly make the replica feel like a whole being.

The fact that it was modeled after someone else's Heart doesn't change the fact that it was Repliku's own Heart. What was copied here is the Sense of Self to go along with the Heart, the Identity, but just like Sora said at the end of Re:CoM - albeit copied, it's all Repliku's, no one else's.
He didn't "feel" like a whole being - he WAS one.

Xion I am not so sure but they never did say she did not have a heart.

She probably did. Would explain far too much, even though it'll probably only cause more havok down the road.

 

[Goldpanner]

Yeah, hearts are vessels. Without them there's nothing to hold the memories and Namine can't do anything; Repliku and Xion must have had fake hearts to hold the memories.

 

[Smile]

Only that would've made no Nobody anywhere capable of being the ones with the Memories, but Nobodies are the ones with the Memories at the end, not the Heartless.
Them having Hearts wouldn't explain why they could store Memories, rather why despite having someone else's Memories, they became their own people.

 

[KeyofEvil'sBane]

But then why doesn't Xion have a heart?

I think because Xion was just supposed to fit in with the rest of the Org., so they never gave her a heart.
Repliku I believe was an experiment to see what would happen if you gave a replica a heart, which didn't turn out to well because he was "deemed unfit for number status"
just a guess

 

[Goldpanner]

Only that would've made no Nobody anywhere capable of being the ones with the Memories

All through CoM they talk about how the memories are stored in the heart.

Naminé: I'm so glad you found me. But your heart, I had to —

Larxene: She steps into people's hearts and rearranges their memory.

Naminé: I I took the people and memories in Sora's heart...and little by little replaced them with false memories that I made.

Marluxia: Yes. If you uproot the memories you planted...then Sora's heart will collapse and all his memories will be torn asunder.

Vexen: Yes, he and his companions arrived earlier. By now that dog Marluxia is already using Naminé to meddle with Sora's heart.

Sora: I won't. Even if you take apart the chain of memories in my heart, the links will stay there. This memory will always be inside me somewhere.

In the literal Japanese, Larxene also says 'she’ll plant lovely memories into your heart' when talking to Repliku, too.

I must have remembered wrong about the vessels thing; I think it was said that the replicas were vessels, not hearts.

But that does beg the question, if memories are indeed inside the heart as CoM drums into us, then why do Nobodies get them? .....Muscle memory?

 

[Smile]

Marluxia also said something very interesting in Re:CoM, about Namine needing to layer Sora's Heart and bring it closer to them. And Namine was taking apart most of the Memories in Sora's Heart, leaving us again with the image of chains surrounding the Hearts, rather than being stored inside it.
Seems to me what what happens when a Nobody is created is that the chains remain connected, they just remain "hovering" inside the Nobody, maintaining the Sense of Self in the Heart's absence, rather than being wrapped around the Heart.

Now this splits more to whether you say Sora had any sort of vessel before he fused with Roxas or not. I started leaning to yes lately so it makes even more sense to me. With the Memories coming apart, they remained inside Sora's vessel, like it would for a regular Nobody. And then eventually they began leaking out to the 'proper' vessel, being Roxas who was Sora's Nobody instead of the make-shift vessel Kairi turned Sora's Heartless Darkness into.

tl;dr the Memories are "glued" to the Heart which is why they treat them as "in" the Heart, otherwise it's just awkward phrasing.

 

[Goldpanner]

That makes sense, especially considering that the chains are meant to link other people together too, except all the quotes say 'in', and it doesn't sound like the context you'd use for something glued to the outside. For example,

Naminé: Yes, but first I have to undo the links I made. Then I have to gather up the memories scattered in your hearts and reconnect them.

If the chains were on the outside, then the analogy would follow that she pulled links off. Why then would they be scattered inside the heart, in that case?

It's the same when she says "the loose links will sink into the darkness in your heart."

I think that explains what happens when you forget something; it sinks deeper into your heart, "lost in the shadows of your heart". I think therefore, the chains probably pass through the middle of the heart, connected to other people on the other sides, rather than stored inside or glued to the outside.

I think you're right about them staying there when the heart fades, but I don't think it's cause they were just wrapped around the outside. I can picture it as if the heart was made of something like ice, and the chains metal. Even if the heart itself were to melt away, the chains would still remain. Perhaps the heart being eaten by darkness is like that; hearts don't have a form, according to Nomura. So, when the darkness floods in and takes a heart, perhaps on the metaphysical plane all this must work on, it takes only the heart itself. And then, just as you said, the chains remain 'hovering' inside the Nobody.

Though, something about not having a heart to go with the memories must damage or limit them, I think. In the Days novels at least, Axel says he doesn't remember everything about Lea, and he also talks about how memories are fragile and easily warped things, and wonders what that means for Nobodies who base themselves on the memories they have.

I think Sora had a vessel, shaped by Kairi's memories (according to Nomura), probably a light-based body. I mean, if Heartless can have bodies based on darkness then why shouldn't one also have a body based on light? Idk. Makes sense to me