I Wanna See Nobodies of Disney Characters in the Future (theory/wish thread)



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MATGSY

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This has kinda been a thought in my head ever since KH2 and the combination of certain events in KH3 plus this board's disappointment with limited Disney bosses reminded me of the idea. In theory, there should totally be at least a few nobodies of Disney villains roaming about somewhere. The concept was brought up in Beast's Castle with Xaldin trying to convert Beast but there's yet to be a canon example.

A nobody requires a strong heart that's been taken by heartless. As demonstrated by Clayton, the resident villains of each Disney world have enough darkness in their hearts to lure heartless, where the heartless will serve said villain up until the point they outlive their usefulness. These villains' hearts aren't just strong, but uniquely strong among the population of their respective worlds to call forth such darkness. It does not seem too far out of the realm of possibility that most of them could have human-form organization-tier nobodies.

With multiple worlds destroyed before the end of KH1, that's potentially several possible nobodies to be had:
-Malefient/Teleficxnam=Similar circumstances as to what happened to AX
-Scar/Xarcs=Said to become a heartless by Pete
-Clayton/Ylanctox=Lost his heart as stated by Tarzan & Maleficent (legal issues prevent return)
-Hans/Xahns=turned into Skoll
-Mother Gothel/Glextoh=Death prevented by being turned into Grim Guardianess
-Lady Termaine/Mreaxenti=Unconfirmed fate following BBS. Maybe died in explosion but is alive in film sequels.
-Shan Yu/Nashx (or is it Xuy?)=Possibly created a nobody before KH1
-Frollo/Rolfoxl=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending
-Gaston/Taxgons=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending
-Cruella De Vil/Lucrexal=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending
-CLU/LUxC=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending (does a living program having a nobody even make sense?)
-The Coachman(Barker)/Xaekrbr=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending

Geez, coming up with semi-pronounceable org names for these guys is rough!. Left out Bambi/Dumbo worlds due to not having particularly standout villains (Let's just blame the dtruction of those worlds on Maleficent or Pete for now).

The world restoration at the end of KH1 makes this concept a little messy. Not only did the worlds come back but so too did all of the inhabitants of said worlds. It's never said but I guess we gotta presume that the correspondent heartless & nobodies of those people must've straight up disappeared. So then all of those pre-KH1 guys don't count then, right? Well the thing is, bad guys don't just stop being bad guys on a whim (Except when Nomura's writing them) so there's every reason that after the restoreation they continue to cause problems & summon heartless. This is observed on-screen by Scar & Shan Yu. Shan Yu, as far as we know, didn't get assistance from Pete or Maleficent, his heartless army was his own doing. However it does not appear that he lost his heart before dying, but he may have been like Clayton in still acting like a human before "death".

Scar is a more interesting example. Not only did the game straight up say he was a heartless, but he still retained his original form & sentience while being a heartless. This is a feat that only Apprentice Xehanort has accomplished. One would thing Scar being the only other "human" heartless aside from Ansem would considered a big deal but alas it apparently isn't.

For villains with currently unconfirmed fates like Frollo or Gaston, it's entirely possible that they may at some point refall to the darkness if they haven't already. Only the worlds playable in KH1 were locked so all other worlds, even the restored ones, are still at risk.

& this is just in talking about the villains from confirmed worlds. While it would be an unorthodox way of introducing a new Disney property into KH, there's the chance of yet unseen Disney characters, both good & bad, having had their hearts taken by heartless & becoming nobodies off-screen. It's yet another 1 of those things that presumably has happened in the vast expanse of the KH universe but has never been seen or heard of in-game. Oswald is a possible example, he doesn't have a heart in the Epic Mickey games which could be adapted in KH-lore as him being a nobody.

Of course, the big problem with Square doing literally anything with Disney characters is getting Disney's approval, who if anything have become stricter with the lisencing over time. Like they don't allow disney characters to be summons anymore so instead Square used elemental summons that took the form of said characters but weren't really the actual characters. But therein lies the possibility: if Square were to spin it that the nobodies are distinct characters from their somebodies (a la Roxas & Xemnas are distinct characters from Sora & Xehanort), then Disney might allow it becsuse they are not the real disney characters in their eyes. This in turn gives Square a new level of creative freedom with those characters.

The nobodies could also be more powerful than their respective somebody. Characters like Cruella or Gothel would not be very fitting for a bossfight but their nobodies could get newfound elemental powers that toughens them up. Again Scar is a proven example. Seemingly the only reason he became a heartless to begin with was to justify all of the fire & lightning & ghost stampeding he was doing in his fight.
 

Face My Fears

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I personally don't think we need anymore characters turning into a heartless and nobody, there are way too many characters already.

BUT I have always wanted to see a non-original character get a nobody or at least be subjected to things that happen to characters outside of the Disney worlds (ie main story stuff). With that being said, I think using a nobody version of a Disney villain would be an easy way to 1) explain the villain's return in the world and 2) power up the villain so that they can have more fight options.

I can see Sora revisiting La Cité des Cloches. The gypsies are under attack again and Sora realizes that it isn't Frollo, but it's his nobody Xofroll and can actually have a fight with him. Although, I don't think non-Organization members would change their nobody name with the recusant sigil.
 

Kirankrt

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Sadly I don’t think that’s ever gonna happen, given the restrictions. I mean your idea is good and I suppose as Face my Fears says, it woukd provide a excuse for a fight but Disney seem to have this “You can’t fight our villains” policy now. Heck you don’t even need to add a X, since let’s face it, that was more down to Xehanort obsessing over the “X” of the X Blade rather than a written rule in the KH universe.

I mean heck, I kept saying Frollo coukd have been a boss similar to Clayton and Stealth Sneak only Frollo has one Health bar and gets revived every 30 seconds in the fight. Wargargoyle would have been the main target still but Frollo would have been a distraction.

I dunno, I suppose I’m too blinded by nostalgia but for me, there’s no excuse for any Disney villain to not be a boss, especially with how they dealt with Clayton (first half, SS was the main target, second half it was Clayton) and Hook, despite the latter being a very comical villain. Heck, even with Scar, they got away with it.
 

Kirankrt

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But therein lies the possibility: if Square were to spin it that the nobodies are distinct characters from their somebodies (a la Roxas & Xemnas are distinct characters from Sora & Xehanort), then Disney might allow it becsuse they are not the real disney characters in their eyes. This in turn gives Square a new level of creative freedom with those characters.
Hmmm...I’m not sure. I mean surely the nobodies would have to have at least some resemblance to the original Disney villain?
 

MATGSY

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Hmmm...I’m not sure. I mean surely the nobodies would have to have at least some resemblance to the original Disney villain?
I guess they could have some alteration to their appearances: new facial hair, eyepatches, dyed hair, highly reflective glasses that you don't see their eyes through.
 

Rodin

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This has kinda been a thought in my head ever since KH2 and the combination of certain events in KH3 plus this board's disappointment with limited Disney bosses reminded me of the idea. In theory, there should totally be at least a few nobodies of Disney villains roaming about somewhere. The concept was brought up in Beast's Castle with Xaldin trying to convert Beast but there's yet to be a canon example.

A nobody requires a strong heart that's been taken by heartless. As demonstrated by Clayton, the resident villains of each Disney world have enough darkness in their hearts to lure heartless, where the heartless will serve said villain up until the point they outlive their usefulness. These villains' hearts aren't just strong, but uniquely strong among the population of their respective worlds to call forth such darkness. It does not seem too far out of the realm of possibility that most of them could have human-form organization-tier nobodies.

With multiple worlds destroyed before the end of KH1, that's potentially several possible nobodies to be had:
-Malefient/Teleficxnam=Similar circumstances as to what happened to AX
-Scar/Xarcs=Said to become a heartless by Pete
-Clayton/Ylanctox=Lost his heart as stated by Tarzan & Maleficent (legal issues prevent return)
-Hans/Xahns=turned into Skoll
-Mother Gothel/Glextoh=Death prevented by being turned into Grim Guardianess
-Lady Termaine/Mreaxenti=Unconfirmed fate following BBS. Maybe died in explosion but is alive in film sequels.
-Shan Yu/Nashx (or is it Xuy?)=Possibly created a nobody before KH1
-Frollo/Rolfoxl=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending
-Gaston/Taxgons=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending
-Cruella De Vil/Lucrexal=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending
-CLU/LUxC=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending (does a living program having a nobody even make sense?)
-The Coachman(Barker)/Xaekrbr=World confirmed destroyed before KH1's ending

Geez, coming up with semi-pronounceable org names for these guys is rough!. Left out Bambi/Dumbo worlds due to not having particularly standout villains (Let's just blame the dtruction of those worlds on Maleficent or Pete for now).

The world restoration at the end of KH1 makes this concept a little messy. Not only did the worlds come back but so too did all of the inhabitants of said worlds. It's never said but I guess we gotta presume that the correspondent heartless & nobodies of those people must've straight up disappeared. So then all of those pre-KH1 guys don't count then, right? Well the thing is, bad guys don't just stop being bad guys on a whim (Except when Nomura's writing them) so there's every reason that after the restoreation they continue to cause problems & summon heartless. This is observed on-screen by Scar & Shan Yu. Shan Yu, as far as we know, didn't get assistance from Pete or Maleficent, his heartless army was his own doing. However it does not appear that he lost his heart before dying, but he may have been like Clayton in still acting like a human before "death".

Scar is a more interesting example. Not only did the game straight up say he was a heartless, but he still retained his original form & sentience while being a heartless. This is a feat that only Apprentice Xehanort has accomplished. One would thing Scar being the only other "human" heartless aside from Ansem would considered a big deal but alas it apparently isn't.

For villains with currently unconfirmed fates like Frollo or Gaston, it's entirely possible that they may at some point refall to the darkness if they haven't already. Only the worlds playable in KH1 were locked so all other worlds, even the restored ones, are still at risk.

& this is just in talking about the villains from confirmed worlds. While it would be an unorthodox way of introducing a new Disney property into KH, there's the chance of yet unseen Disney characters, both good & bad, having had their hearts taken by heartless & becoming nobodies off-screen. It's yet another 1 of those things that presumably has happened in the vast expanse of the KH universe but has never been seen or heard of in-game. Oswald is a possible example, he doesn't have a heart in the Epic Mickey games which could be adapted in KH-lore as him being a nobody.

Of course, the big problem with Square doing literally anything with Disney characters is getting Disney's approval, who if anything have become stricter with the lisencing over time. Like they don't allow disney characters to be summons anymore so instead Square used elemental summons that took the form of said characters but weren't really the actual characters. But therein lies the possibility: if Square were to spin it that the nobodies are distinct characters from their somebodies (a la Roxas & Xemnas are distinct characters from Sora & Xehanort), then Disney might allow it becsuse they are not the real disney characters in their eyes. This in turn gives Square a new level of creative freedom with those characters.

The nobodies could also be more powerful than their respective somebody. Characters like Cruella or Gothel would not be very fitting for a bossfight but their nobodies could get newfound elemental powers that toughens them up. Again Scar is a proven example. Seemingly the only reason he became a heartless to begin with was to justify all of the fire & lightning & ghost stampeding he was doing in his fight.
I agree with this. They could drop the X anagram gimmick and just use their normal names. Maybe titles could work?

PS. Deviantart has a ton of good oc designs under the Organization Untold tag.

EDIT- they used to create OCs on the disney worlds so thats another way to go.
 
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disney233

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I...preferably would rather the idea of Disney characters we know, as well as the idea of ORIGINAL Disney characters to be apart of the Organization. Like many have said on the board the overworld in Kingdom Hearts is so minuscule. So many ideas for Disney worlds, yet literally EVERY original character either came from Destiny Islands, Radiant Garden, or the Age of Fairy Tales...which is ludicrous and pathetic. If the story doesn't have anything to do with ANY of the Disney worlds, don't fucking put any in. It's disgusting filler and a long line of wasted potential. Again I say this, the world where 4 main characters reside in...is disgusting wasted potential and mini-game filler. It PISSES ME OFF TO THE EXTREME that the actual DISNEY aspect of the game has little to NOTHING to do with this abyssal plot.

As much as I want SO MUCH OF THIS (Minus the Xs, that's really not needed since it's Xehanort's thing.) this is the era we live in now. Where Disney will have little to do with this game....because Disney WANTS to botch it down to have so little to do with this game.
 
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