I know this has been touched before but...



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Guernsey

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I know the whole time travel thing has touched to death but it still bothers me, how Maleficent able to change and alter reality in the Disney Castle via Time travel yet Xehanort couldn't do the same thing in DDD? How differne tis Xehanort's method different form Merlin, Yen Sid or just about any time traveler in fiction?
 

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I mean, it's vastly different. For one thing, the nature of the door that Pete conjured initially is something to ponder about. It's a form of wish fulfillment, but we don't really know exactly what triggered it, or why it happened. It could simply be something as simple as magic.

With Merlin, it makes a bit more sense. Merlin in mythology and in the Disney film, is capable of traveling around time and space. It makes sense for him to be able to conjure the door and later why he had access to a chamber outside of time for Lea to train in.

As for the rules and the method, Xehanort's time travel requires separation of the heart and the body at least once, and its rules are clearly stated. Xehanort may not be capable of the time travel magic that Merlin possesses.

Also also, even though there was the threat of Maleficent re-writing time, she wasn't successful so for all we know, it may be impossible to do it in this method as well.
 

Veritas7340

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Basically, everyone in the KH verse should consider themselves REALLY lucky that Xehanort was oblivious to Merlin's specialized time-travel capabilities.

One stab-behind-the-back to Aqua or Sora at a vulnerable point in time and Terranort or Ansem/Xemnas could've conquered all.

Somehow, even though Pete and Maleficient had access to this superior kind of time travel, the mood of the level had no real threatening vibe at all

To more directly answer the OP, Tinny said it best: it has to be chalked up to some sort of magic
 

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As pointed out already the methods used by Xehanort and the doors in kh2 are different methods however if you think about it the rules that you can't change time still applied to it.

Because even though it did begin to warp things time still remained unchanged because there was a second door that acted as a counterpart to the first one.
The first door allowed Pete to revisit his past as he wished but the door merlin summoned allowed Sora to keep anything from being altered.
If Maleficent and Pete had truly changed time and history Sora and everyone else standing in the halls of disney castle would've immediately vanished as the history that lead them there would've been rewritten.

It's also worth pointing out that Yen Sid also used a different variation of time magic to send Sora and Riku back to the DI as it fell into darkness.
Even though Yen Sids method/assistance allowed them to go back in time body and all (unlike Xehanorts method that requires the body be discarded) it still also followed some of the rules YX pointed out in the form that:

A) Yen Sid could only send them to a point in time they already existed in, this case being kh1 Destiny Islands.
B) Time wasnt' altered in anyway.
and C) as YX stated "once there you can only move forward as per the laws of time" meaning once at their destination they could only go forward from that point.

So looking in hindsight, no matter how many variations of the method exist, they still seem to follow some of the same basic rules, that being you can't alter history. (since something, like the door Merlin summons, always keeps it from being altered)
 

Guernsey

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Still, how was Maleficent able to get the Cornerstone of Light? So there wouldn't be any sort of paradoxes despite it supposed to happen at some point.
 

Gram

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She wasnt able to get the cornerstone, SD&G stopped Pete before he could steal it preventing any paradoxes from happening.
From what we've learned in DDD things like paradoxes, hiccus, and alterations to time are pretty much impossible.
 

Guernsey

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That is kind of weird considering what Xehanort had trying to in order to get Kingdom hearts.
 

Gram

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Not really, yes Xehanort is manipulating time but he's not altering history in doing so since he's bringing a few of his selves from past to present.
Plus not all the seekers are time travels so its not as big a time manipulation as many let on.
 

Face My Fears

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Maybe the door at Disney Castle only takes them back in time in that world? I mean it even transformed Sora/Donald/Goofy to old versions of themselves. It could be possible that it's impossible to leave that world when you travel back in time. It could also be not very far into the past anyway. Remember time moves differently for different worlds, so maybe all those years ago at Disney Castle is like 3 years in the past for Radiant Garden? I think the fact that the door was limited to Disney Castle made it rather limited in power, rather than the time travel that Xehanort is utilizing that goes across all worlds.
 

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That is kind of weird considering what Xehanort had trying to in order to get Kingdom hearts.
Xehanort isn't trying to change anything in the past but tries to manipulate the present/future to his bidding by using people from the past.

Not really, yes Xehanort is manipulating time but he's not altering history in doing so since he's bringing a few of his selves from past to present.
Plus not all the seekers are time travels so its not as big a time manipulation as many let on.
Exactly, it's practically like Xehanort is collecting help from the past because all his other plans so far failed/got derailed to a point where his true goal cannot be met anymore.

I think the fact that the door was limited to Disney Castle made it rather limited in power, rather than the time travel that Xehanort is utilizing that goes across all worlds.
It wasn't, or how do you think Pete got into the past in the first place? Pete also had a door that appeared at Villain's Vale (which is located in Radiant Garden) and led also to Timeless River.
Pete was longing for the old times and the worlds may have given him access to that door in order to show him what kind of person he was in the past and maybe giving him a chance to reform. It was Maleficent who decided to try and use the door for evil purposes, but because the timeline cannot be changed, the worlds arranged it so that Minnie, Donald, Sora and Goofy would seek out Merlin and get to the past with another door, preventing ultimatively any changes from happening.
 

Guernsey

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I always thought the whole Timeless River was just like one note plot device that was most likely never going to used again. I always thought it was going to run on cartoon physics or at least the physics used in some games where if you changed the past, you'll affect the future. I had no idea that the designers or even Xehanort was gonna pull this type of nonsense and time travel (if we could call it that) was gonna have so many rules.
 

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To be fair, these laws probably weren't even thought up by nomura till DDD's story was being ironed out. It's just that Nomura's done it in such a way that it doesnt contradict anything in past games.
 

Guernsey

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To be fair, these laws probably weren't even thought up by nomura till DDD's story was being ironed out. It's just that Nomura's done it in such a way that it doesnt contradict anything in past games.

I'll give Nomura that even if I don't agree with it.
 

The Toketsukage

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Basically to sum up what everyone else has been saying here is that there are multiple methods of time traveling, but they all have to follow the same rules in regards to their relationship with the flow of time itself. The reason MX uses the particular form of Time Travel that he uses may simply be that with Merlin's method you can't bring people from the past into the present. But with Xehanort's method you can, and that's exactly what he needs. That's speculation, but it would make sense.

I honestly am not a fan of time travel either because IMO two of the most difficult tropes to pull off are time travel and afterlife. The afterlife one is going to come up in the future, just due to the nature of the series and it's plot. The time travel stuff just wasn't needed though.

I understand they wanted to bring in a Young Xehanort, and bring back XH and Xemnas, but their was one easy way to do that. If Sora created two nobodies by releasing two hearts, then the opposite should also be true. With the multiple hearts MX had with him, he could have just done a reverse and had Ansem and Xemnas be brought back as whole beings. To get a Young Xehanort just use the fact that MX released his heart in BBS and his body faded then, make up and excuse for the younger appearance, and thus Xehanort has a third nobody that looks like he did in his youth. The whole Xemnas and Ansem revival thing would have been a nice tie in to the future plot of bringing back Roxas, Namine, and Xion. Therefore you get your 13 darknesses and your 7 lights that way without needing time travel.
 

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I honestly am not a fan of time travel either because IMO two of the most difficult tropes to pull off are time travel and afterlife. The afterlife one is going to come up in the future, just due to the nature of the series and it's plot. The time travel stuff just wasn't needed though.
I actually think the closest we're getting to the afterlife is the realm of dreams. Nomura's kind of made it seem like he's leaving the concept of death vague.
 

The Toketsukage

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I actually think the closest we're getting to the afterlife is the realm of dreams. Nomura's kind of made it seem like he's leaving the concept of death vague.
But it does exist because look at Jafar, Shan Yu, Scar, Clayton, they all died so death clearly exist. I mean more than likely reincarnation is the rule in the series since Kingdom Hearts has been said to be the place where all hearts are born and all hearts return to.
 

Dandelion

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But it does exist because look at Jafar, Shan Yu, Scar, Clayton, they all died so death clearly exist. I mean more than likely reincarnation is the rule in the series since Kingdom Hearts has been said to be the place where all hearts are born and all hearts return to.
The Ansem Reports state that the soul, not the heart, dictates life and death. Whenever a heart leaves a body, the body does not die. Many of the characters have been in dubious points of existence throughout the series, but very few have actually died.
 

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Death does exist and it seems to be as natural as it is in our world. Ansem the Wise mentioned it in one of his reports, as shown here.

Secret Ansem's Report 4 said:
The distant days spent in that beautiful paradise are an illusion to me now.
How long have I been here, banished to the realm of nothingness?
It is only by relying upon my anger and hatred that I have been able to retain my sense of self here where all existence is nullified.
My heart is being overcome with hatred toward my apprentices, possessed by the darkness, and with the anger I feel for stupidly allowing myself to be betrayed.
Is this darkness, eating away at my heart?
I cannot continue to idle away my time here.
What are Xehanort and the others attempting to do?
I must unravel the mystery of these Ansem's Reports, intercept my apprentices, and defeat them.
That is my mission...the only way to repay the world for my sins.
Those beings who lack hearts—the Heartless—must be the key.
The darkness of the heart, made flesh. Cursed shadows who not only lack hearts, but multiply by seizing hearts from any and all living things.
Where have they come from, and where are they going?
Three elements combine to create a life: a heart, a soul, and a body.
But what of the soul and body left behind when the heart is lost?
When the soul leaves the body, its vessel, life gives way to death, but what about when the heart leaves?
A being does not perish when its heart leaves its body. The heart alone disappears into the darkness.
There is little time.
If I remain in this realm much longer, I will certainly learn these answers the hard way.
My heart is already a captive of the darkness.
There is no confirmation whether or not the characters you mentioned have truly died. Scar gave in to the darkness and became a Heartless as Pete stated. If I remember correctly, the only character that acknowledged his own death was Riku Replica, which happened after he was struck down by Riku in their final encounter.
 

Dandelion

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Death does exist and it seems to be as natural as it is in our world. Ansem the Wise mentioned it in one of his reports, as shown here.
Which is why I think they'll leave it vague. I don't know if Nomura's interested in creating rules for life and death and afterlifes and souls. Because when series start dealing with "the afterlife" they never really escape. I think them bringing the characters back to a physical state is good/close enough.
 
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Solo

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Bringing someone back from the dead actually isn't unheard of, but that's just because there was Hades who acted as a plot device to pull off such a feat.

I agree though in that physical death might not be explored further any time soon (or even ever), because the main focus of the series thus far has always been the relationship between the body and the heart. Probably the best course to take is just to leave it as it is now, that death is a natural state everybody will one day experience and thus merits little attention.
 
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