I hope, Kazushige Nojima or Daisuke Watanabe is a writer in Phase 2

[Vanitas817]

Hey everyone,
since Covid I played all KH titels and want to share my thoughts. And of course, I'm playing Union X and Dark Road. I grow up with Kingdom Hearts since 2002 but since DDD, Kingdom Hearts felt wrong and first I don't know why. After KH3 launch many of my friends were disappointed, in the first moment me too. After all the patches and ReMind, gameplay wise it's for me now the best KH titel. Maybe you all know Kazushige Nojima or Daisuke Watanabe, they are scenario writer of many popular JRPG' like FFVII, FFX, KH1, KH2, FFXII, FFXIII, Original FFversusXIII. We know KH that DDD and KH3 was written by Nomura and Masaru Oka and after I played all the games again I noticed something.

KH1 story is amazing! How the Villains work together, the rivalry of Sora and Riku, the childish love of Sora and Kairi, the unique story, the mystery of the Keyblade, the mix between FF and Disney Character and they are all lovely. It's really great written for me. KH2, ReCoM, Days and BBS are great. In all this titles have Kazushige Nojima or Daisuke Watanabe a writer position. The writing is not perfect, like KH1 Deus ex moment with Kairi and Sora or KH2 when Kairi got her Keyblade but they are all well written and fun to play. KH2 has strong moments like KH1, like Roxas and Axels last talk or the ending with Sora and Riku where they admire each other. BBS have with Blank Points the best secret ending ever. And because of all the great writing I love many characters.

Sora, Aqua and Riku where my favorites. but since DDD... ohh boy. Riku is no more the cool guy who walks his own path, Aqua got tearful and weak and no one respects Sora. I know the situation of Kairi is worse. King Mickey and Yen Sid are one of the worst characters, they literally do nothing. One moment what pisses me really of is, is the moment when Riku and Mickey are in KH3 in the realm of darkness and when Mickey said Aqua is like Sora. The moment when Riku frightened is a complete disrespect and shows, that the writers forgot the ending of KH2 where Sora and Riku talk. Since KH1 Sora, Donald, Goofy deafeated everyone, beside Xemnas, that was a cool Riku and Sora moment, my favorite final boss in the series. And what they say to Sora, he is too weak! Sora, recuse everyone, makes a new timeline, the other fails in every task they have to do and no one respects Sora. He NeEdS tHe PoWeR oF wAkEnInG. He does literally anything. Story wise DDD and KH3 damaged the series. it has too many retcons, plot holes, weird and bad character writing.

I really hope for Phase 2 that one of the old writers comes back, when Kingdom Hearts was really special with great characters and an amazing story. Kazushige Nojima worked on FFversusXIII, maybe after the secret ending of ReMind and MoM he will help out Nomura. I really hope so. What are your thoughts? How do you like the story? Are you satisfied with the current sate of the series?

I wish everyone a Merry Christmas

 

[okhi12]

Kazushige Nojima can be an excellent scenario writer but give him too much freedom and he can ruin a whole series (or subseries) like he did to FFX. Final Fantasy X-2 was quite terrible in terms of story (it was written by Nojima and Watanabe) but the infamous FFX-2 Eien no Daisho novel and the FFX Will audio drama should have never existed and Nojima is the only one to blame for those two.

Nojima was also the scenario writer for FF7 Remake and I remember Nomura said in an interview the team wanted to change a lot of things in the ending portion of the game (which would deviate even more from the original game) and unexpectedly it was him -Nomura- who had to prevent those changes. He didn't mention anyone by name but I can imagine the kind of changes Nojima would want to implement.

I'm not against Nojima and Watanabe contributing to KH as long as they don't try too hard to force their cheap drama into the series, Nomura is enough by himself.

I could rant a bit more but to keep it short, Nojima writing some general background and story elements = OK. Nojima delving into specific plot details = please NO.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Deliverance]

Jun Akiyama > Nojima/Watanabe

 

[The_Echo]

Watanabe was the main writer (besides Nomura, obviously) for Chain of Memories and Re:coded, the former being the best story period in the series and the latter having very excellent dialogue (in my opinion).

I'd love to see another KH game with Watanabe at the head of the writing team, but I think what most needs to happen with KH is having a consistent writing staff. Obviously Nomura's always there, but the people who interpret his core story into the narrative and dialogue change nearly every game. That inevitably translates to an inconsistent quality of writing across the series. KH will never have master-class writing, and it doesn't need it either, but it does need consistency.

Masaru Oka started with BbS, and since DDD has been the main writer for every entry. So I think we have our official KH writer now. I might have preferred Watanabe, but I don't really have any issues with how Oka is handling the story at this point. The χ series has been very good.

 

[Face My Fears]

I was hoping they could book Christopher Nolan or James Cameron to work on the writing for KH Phase 2.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

I was hoping they could book Christopher Nolan or James Cameron to work on the writing for KH Phase 2.

People say Dream Drop Distance is based off Inception so I'm looking forward to an Interstellar or Tenet based spinoff...

Chris Nolan did say he was interested in creating a video game...

Christopher Nolan Is Interested in Adapting His Films into Video Games

Christopher Nolan revealed that he once planned to adapt "Inception" into a video game before axing the project.

www.google.com

Plus Michael Caine was in the Muppets Christmas Carol.....

Its all coming together.....

 

[AR829038]

Watanabe was the main writer (besides Nomura, obviously) for Chain of Memories and Re:coded, the former being the best story period in the series and the latter having very excellent dialogue (in my opinion).

I'd love to see another KH game with Watanabe at the head of the writing team, but I think what most needs to happen with KH is having a consistent writing staff. Obviously Nomura's always there, but the people who interpret his core story into the narrative and dialogue change nearly every game. That inevitably translates to an inconsistent quality of writing across the series. KH will never have master-class writing, and it doesn't need it either, but it does need consistency.

Masaru Oka started with BbS, and since DDD has been the main writer for every entry. So I think we have our official KH writer now. I might have preferred Watanabe, but I don't really have any issues with how Oka is handling the story at this point. The χ series has been very good.

I'll have to disagree with you on Oka. I think the dialogue in most of BBS was pretty cringe, and not in the usual KH cheesy-but-endearing way but more like the "god, did they really just say that?" kind of way. And DDD was atrocious. Keep in mind, the actual plotline and narrative of DDD weren't really all that complicated if you stopped to think about it, but the way those ideas were translated in the visual screenplay and dialogue was abysmal, and it made the whole story ten times more confusing and disorienting than it needed to be. I'm also going to contest the writing for the X games, because those are pretty trash too.
I'm not gonna act like Watanabe is perfect. Re: Coded was a lame story, but CoM was one of the best entries in the series, so tit-for-tat Watanabe is leagues ahead of Oka. Frankly, they should get Akiyama, Watanabe, and Nojima all back together as the lead writers, because KH1 (which was worked on by all three of them) was EASILY the best written story in the series imo. Individually, each of these writers has their shortcomings, but I feel all three of them working together really balance out each other's flaws, and this series DESPERATELY needs a return to the straightforward and more heartfelt storytelling of the early days.

 

[2 quid is good]

Watanabe was the main writer (besides Nomura, obviously) for Chain of Memories and Re:coded,

When it came to CoM Watanabe did the heavy lifting there, so much so that Nomura would have to call him up and ask about the different personalities of Org 13 while he was writing KH2 - NOT that there's anything wrong with that, delegation is a good thing - and anyway, Jun Akiyama is preferable to both, and Nojima has really not had much of a presence when it comes to KH, definitely not more than Watanabe at any rate, seeing as he's worked on every KH console title except DDD and KH3.

Personally I would greatly prefer it if Watanabe would come back to write for KH because I feel between him and Akiyama, the former would be most likely, plus the last I heard he was writing for one of square's mobile games which I personally feel is a waste.

But the gold standard for KH writing is Jun Akiyama and if you ever play WoFF, you'll see he's still got the chops for it

 

[AmaryllisMoth]

One moment what pisses me really of is, is the moment when Riku and Mickey are in KH3 in the realm of darkness and when Mickey said Aqua is like Sora. The moment when Riku frightened is a complete disrespect and shows, that the writers forgot the ending of KH2 where Sora and Riku talk.

Just for starters I don't particularly disagree with your frustration that people in KH3 keep constantly talking down to Sora for...basically no reason. It bothered me significantly as well how often people were ripping into him or treating Sora like he was some kind of joke as a way to try and convince the audience that Sora was weak (despite not showing it on screen, really).

However, while I do agree that Sora's treatment in many other parts of the game is ridiculously unfair--this scene you mentioned isn't one of them. Not sure if this would help you feel a little better, but this scene where Riku reacts that way to what Mickey said was actually an awkwardly translated joke that actually, ultimately, reaffirms Riku's faith in Sora's strength.

To explain, in the original script during this part, Mickey says "アクアはソラに似てるよ" (translated as: But Aqua...she's like Sora) which Riku then has an over exaggerated "ええ！？” (tr: "WHAT!?") reaction to.

The verb that Mickey uses here in Japanese, 似る, has somewhat of a double meaning, and is most similar to the English word "to resemble". It can mean that someone is similar in mentality, spirit or manor but ALSO can mean that someone literally LOOKS like someone else. (usually used to describe familial resemblances).

The "joke" in this scene is that Mickey says in Japanese, essentially "oh, by the way, about Aqua-- she resembles Sora." Riku momentarily freaks out at the mental image of Aqua physically looking like Sora- probably thinking that Sora has another doppelganger clone wandering around. Not a massive stretch of an assumption considering how this series goes. However, Mickey very hastily corrects Riku to say "no no no I meant they are similar in SPIRIT. Their hearts are similarly strong!" This puts Riku's worries at ease, and he then accepts having to duck out on their search early because, in his mind, if Aqua is strong like Sora, then she should be alright. If anything, this scene is a good reaffirmation that Riku still trusts Sora and knows his strength.

Riku temporarily appearing "frightened" or more accurately, surprised, was just meant to be a joke that Riku misinterpreted Mickey's verb to be the other reading.

Honestly I feel like this could have been conveyed a LOT better if they had changed the translation slightly to maybe have Mickey say something more like "Aqua resembles Sora an awful lot" because that at least could potentially be misinterpreted more easily than his actual line of "Aqua is like Sora" which most people I think would generally not initially read to be Mickey saying the two literally look the same. The translation, as a result, leads to a lot of confusion as to why Riku would be bothered by Aqua "being like" Sora.

My point being-- this scene seeming insulting to you isn't actually the fault of the writers, or that they "forgot the ending of KH2" but actually is more the fault of the translation team. Or I suppose the fault lies in this scene using linguistic humor to make a joke that doesn't really translate very well.

Hopefully that explanation at least makes you not dislike this scene so much in the future.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I want Nojima to stay very far away from the series. I think it was partially his contributions to KH3 and advice to Nomura that created many of the issues I have with the last four hours of that game. As we know, Nomura reached out to Nojima for the later part of the game as he was having issues with it, and I know they have a good friendship and respect each other very much but man I just don’t think he understands Kingdom Hearts on a fundamental level.

I didn’t like his writing in KH2, and I didn’t like what he did for the post FFX-2 story. He is better when he has others to work with and not alone. And he certainly should not be the one giving anybody advice on how to write an ending.

KH1 is as good as it is because of Jun Akiyama. He’s a great editor and also fantastic at scenario planning. He NEEDS to come back. Desperately.

Daisuke Watanabe is also good, although he can be a bit bland sometimes. His worst has never been bad, though. I’d say he’s way more consistent than Nojima. I’d love to see what Watanabe could come up with alongside Masaru Oka.

Masaru Oka is the best. He must always remain. Nomura should let him write more. I think KH3 is as funny as it is because Oka and Nomura work well together.

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

I agree with Spock. A lot of things people hate about lore/developments post KH2 come from trying to clean up Nojima's really awful story.

 

[Cumguardian69]

KH3 and DDD were bad because they had abysmal pacing, bad gameplay:story congruence, and they treated key characters horribly.

So DDD's big thing is that it forces Sora to fail the MoM on a technicality. Sora DID NOT return safe and sound from the MoM that Yensid totally knew was safe, and thus he failed. Ok. But 3 didn't agree with that at all.

Specifically speaking on 3, the story introduction treats Sora as though he's a novice starting fresh but the gameplay introduction immediately gives him flowmotion. Olympus, TTown, and Dark World I stories all want the player to believe that Sora is basically stupid and incompetent, but in those Sora takes out the Titans, waves of Nobodies/heartless, and his very image serves as a paragon for Roku and Mickey to fall back on. It's just bad.

•Then, Sora goes from world to world solving their issues as he always does, and while he technically holds an L against Vanitas in Monstro, that particular world showed that Sora gets wins by doing what he always does: relying on his friends.

•San Fransokyo slaps the whole "Sora is a failure" plotline in the face by showcasing him as THE big hero, the one that teaches BH6 how to up their game. Why is failed-master Sora giving tips when he can't even learn the power of asspulls? Because the plot dictated that he failed, but the plot also wants 3 to be "Sora's game".

^Amaryllis
The problem with the "joke" wasn't the delivery, it was the timing. Why have the joke right after a fight with a Dtower? Why not place it before Riku's spiel about motivation? It was completely out of place.

 

[The_Echo]

So DDD's big thing is that it forces Sora to fail the MoM on a technicality. Sora DID NOT return safe and sound from the MoM that Yensid totally knew was safe, and thus he failed. Ok.

I genuinely cannot believe people are still hung up over Sora not being named a Master.
Spoiler: It's never going to happen. Sora as a character is specifically designed to not be the master. He will always be that way.
He will always be a naïve, impulsive, rough-and-tumble amateur because he's supposed to be a normal kid. No destiny for greatness, no exceptional skill, no noble lineage, nothing but the will to do right and to protect his friends and it's that quality alone which takes him as far as he goes. He's an analog for and a message to all the completely average people playing Kingdom Hearts.

Failing his Mark of Mastery did not negatively impact him in any way. Yen Sid could have named him Master because he fulfilled the task laid out for him (seal the Sleeping Keyholes and acquire the power of waking). He did complete the designated task. But he's not a Master. He never will be.
You'd think people would get over it as quickly as Sora did, because of how little it actually matters to anyone, especially him. But I guess not.

Olympus, TTown, and Dark World I stories all want the player to believe that Sora is basically stupid and incompetent

I never once got that impression from the story of KHIII. Yes, Maleficent and Pete pick on him and we're meant to believe Sora is weaker as a result of getting got by the old man. But that's not the game trying to tell us Sora's a useless piece of shit.
It was well established in DDD that Sora would be the one who could bring back the lost Keyblade wielders. That's why Yen Sid sends him out to find the power of waking again even though Riku already has it. Because he's not a useless piece of shit. He's their ace-in-the-hole.

 

[AmaryllisMoth]

The problem with the "joke" wasn't the delivery, it was the timing. Why have the joke right after a fight with a Dtower? Why not place it before Riku's spiel about motivation? It was completely out of place.

I do agree somewhat that it was a bit random to have a stab at humor after the heavier scene there. But on the other hand at the time Mickey made his comment about Sora and Aqua, Riku seemed very much on fence about leaving Aqua unrescued even with his Keyblade in pieces. Riku very clearly needed a reason to feel "okay" about leaving Aqua to fend for herself longer, and Mickey was just trying to give him one. So, the intention behind the statement I think still makes sense in the second conversation post tower fight.

But yeah, clearly debatable if they even needed to make that scene "funny" at all, I guess.

The reason I mentioned it wasn't really to defend the joke, but more because of the slightly off translation I have seen at least a few people misunderstand why Riku was reacting the way he did there and think it is a slight against Sora.

Overall I do agree with a number of things you brought up. 3D felt like the entire game was structured around trying to make Riku look good, mostly at Sora's expense. It is a sign of bad writing if you have to tear other characters down (or have them act particularly out of character) in order to make a different character shine in contrast. Characters should be consistent and stand up on their own merits instead of just being the only competent person around.

I also think it is hilarious as well in 3 how everyone keeps saying "Sora is weak" but then two seconds later he is just...running vertically up a cliff like nbd. Clearly they wanted to justify Sora going to Disney worlds in order to try and learn the power of waking, but obviously weren't willing to sacrifice game mechanics until he could learn it. The biggest problem, therefore, is them constantly equating not having the power of waking to "being weak" in the game. Which...those two things shouldn't actually be equatable. And clearly aren't, according to the gameplay. Had they just made a quick off-hand comment at the start when he was just setting off about how he was going to be a bit shakey power-wise at first because of the 3D shenanegans that would at least fit in with the slow regain of abilities during the first tutorial world segment in Olympus. But by then they should have definitely dropped the whole "Sora is weak" joke.

Especially because we know "he had the power of waking the whole time" I feel like it would have been far, far more fitting for them just to acknowledge that he had it but be less up front about telling Sora where Ven's heart is. Or just given Sora a different excuse to travel around Disney worlds. Or rescue Ven earlier. *shrugs*

It was a constant wrench in the flow of the story that didn't mesh with the gameplay and it is my biggest gripe with 3 on the whole.

I never once got that impression from the story of KHIII. Yes, Maleficent and Pete pick on him and we're meant to believe Sora is weaker as a result of getting got by the old man. But that's not the game trying to tell us Sora's a useless piece of shit.
It was well established in DDD that Sora would be the one who could bring back the lost Keyblade wielders. That's why Yen Sid sends him out to find the power of waking again even though Riku already has it. Because he's not a useless piece of shit. He's their ace-in-the-hole.

I wouldn't go so far to say that people were treating Sora THAT badly, or considered him THAT useless, but it is fairly consistent throughout the game how often people were treating Sora like a novice. Donald, Goofy, Mickey, Yensid, Riku, Maleficent, Pete, and even Sora himself at various points through the story made mention of Sora's lack of ability, skill or competency. While it was often done in a joking manner, it was consistent. Narratively, this was not to establish the cast's overall disdain or lack of trust in Sora, it was done to try and illustrate to the audience that Sora is weaker than he should be at the start. Then, when we finally see Sora pulling impressive feats at the end game we are meant to feel how much he has grown because he can now do these impressive things that the other "non-novice" characters were unable to do. The issue is that even in the first tutorial world, Sora is already doing impressive things like defeating multiple titans at once because they wanted the gameplay to be big, exciting and fun. This clashes with what the characters say, and tease Sora about many times.

I think it is very clear that they are expecting great things of Sora, no doubts there. The issue is that throughout KH3 it feels like Sora is constantly belittled for "not getting the power of waking yet" as if the power of waking is the end-all be-all.

Sora being the ace in the hole is definitely what the game wanted us to ultimately feel about him, but there was a bit of mixed messages in terms of how that was conveyed on screen over the course of the game.

 

[Deliverance]

Masaru Oka is the best. He must always remain. Nomura should let him write more. I think KH3 is as funny as it is because Oka and Nomura work well together.

HARD disagree on Oka. He’s one of the worst writers the series has ever had. His plotting for KH2’s Disney worlds was mostly bad and the worlds have only gotten worse the more involved he’s gotten.

Nojima’s hit or miss but his scripts are decent and most importantly, he at the very least has a basic understanding of the characters.

Oka’s scripts are abysmal and worse still, he’s a complete yes-man for Nomura. And because Nomura doesn’t understand the characters, it means Oka doesn’t understand the characters.

He’s also responsible for some dumb shit like the ‘May your heart be your guiding key” line and Frozen world’s awkward musical recreations.

I genuinely cannot believe people are still hung up over Sora not being named a Master.
Spoiler: It's never going to happen. Sora as a character is specifically designed to not be the master. He will always be that way.
He will always be a naïve, impulsive, rough-and-tumble amateur because he's supposed to be a normal kid. No destiny for greatness, no exceptional skill, no noble lineage, nothing but the will to do right and to protect his friends and it's that quality alone which takes him as far as he goes. He's an analog for and a message to all the completely average people playing Kingdom Hearts.

Failing his Mark of Mastery did not negatively impact him in any way. Yen Sid could have named him Master because he fulfilled the task laid out for him (seal the Sleeping Keyholes and acquire the power of waking). He did complete the designated task. But he's not a Master. He never will be.
You'd think people would get over it as quickly as Sora did, because of how little it actually matters to anyone, especially him. But I guess not.


I never once got that impression from the story of KHIII. Yes, Maleficent and Pete pick on him and we're meant to believe Sora is weaker as a result of getting got by the old man. But that's not the game trying to tell us Sora's a useless piece of shit.
It was well established in DDD that Sora would be the one who could bring back the lost Keyblade wielders. That's why Yen Sid sends him out to find the power of waking again even though Riku already has it. Because he's not a useless piece of shit. He's their ace-in-the-hole.

I never cared for the Mark of Mastery plot point myself but I think it’s really stupid to have Sora take the fall for Yen Sid’s incompetence as a teacher.

“Xehanort is gonna make his move any time now so I’m just gonna reset you guys to level 1 and send you to dream world with no way of reaching you. Then I’ll blame Sora for falling into a trap even though I didn’t see it coming either and did nothing about it”.

Such a satisfying storyline that was.

 

[Absent]

^I just wanna say that I agree with “May your heart be your guiding key.” It’s trying too hard to be SW and it reads clunky.

May your heart guide you, or let the light guide you feels more succinct and natural.

 

[Cumguardian69]

"May your heart be your guiding key.. Master Yen Sid ALWAYS said that right before we started our missions. Maybe I just imagined it."

It's so cringy.

 

[2 quid is good]

Maybe we're the problem....






..... No, its definitely Square Enix

 

[Antifa Lockhart]

If you guys think "may your heart be your guiding key" wasn't created from an edict issued by Nomura's Star Wars-loving ass, I dunno what to say to you.

 

[Absent]

If you guys think "may your heart be your guiding key" wasn't created from an edict issued by Nomura's Star Wars-loving ass, I dunno what to say to you.

It makes sense to assume that but Nomura himself said it was Oka who came up with it.