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I have never understood this... (Fun discussion)



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Pandymint

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Graphics have improved by having more processing power to render much higher quality images without turning the console into an impromptu bonfire, and create finer details that are more than a flat .jpg. They're also able to do things like fully rendered facial animations without having to sacrifice anything to allow it. The quality of KH3's visual fidelity straight up was not possible on older hardware. That's how they've improved.
 

Chie

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Yes, we now have the option to do those things. Our number of options have improved with technical power.

The graphics in an individual game are not inherently better though, even if they are more complex, etc.
 

Pandymint

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I didn't say they were better. You asked how they have improved, and I gave an answer. And while they may look perfectly fine, they still qualify as 'outdated' just as pixel graphics are 'outdated'. Doesn't mean you can't like them, but they are a product of their time.


Vinyl records are outdated, but I still like them and its still viable for an artist to press their album on vinyl even though by todays standards its antiquated technology.


I really don't know what else you're looking for here.
 

Chie

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Am I truly that mistaken in thinking that the word "improve" means to become better?

As for vinyl, I think the real comparison here would be, like, "instruments" or something, something used in the work itself rather than a release format. There's nothing stopping you from using several levels of graphical fidelity in one game, in fact most games do in some way or another. KH3 imitates Game and Watch graphics for minigames, MoM uses PS2-type models for the main game and PS4-type models for the present-day story bit. MoM is a great example of this actually, the "outdated" style was determined to be the more appropriate one to use for this particular work.

I'll say this: graphical fidelity can only be pushed so far. In, say, 100 years, all of these styles are going to be equally 'outdated', all originating from the same short span of time. Maybe the people then will find it easier to see them all as merely options.
 

BufferAqua

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I'll say this: graphical fidelity can only be pushed so far. In, say, 100 years, all of these styles are going to be equally 'outdated', all originating from the same short span of time. Maybe the people then will find it easier to see them all as merely options.
That isn't now, though. In the present it's technically outdated, but KH3's engine is not. To be honest, I don't think anyone was thinking in-depth about the updated engine. The original engine was from 2002, they updated it because it's more technologically advanced and more in-line with PS4 standards. Believe or not, visual presentation is also important; not everyone who wants a graphical improvement is a mindless graphics whore. It's not just about styles, but the graphical quality. Upgrading the details on hair, clothes, facial expressions, etc. It's expected for AAA games to do this because they have the budget to make advancements.

Everyone has personal taste, but it isn't inaccurate to call the old engine dated. It's not an insult to its style or the quality of its time. And honestly arguing about whether its "better" or "improved" compared to other terms is just becoming a semantics battle.
 

NoWay

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I really like KH3’s art style and I’m glad about the change. But the first KH3 trailer in luminous engine also looked really good. I’m already excited about how KH4 is going to look like on the PS5.
 

the red monster

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it was simply outdated and not what a standard AAA ps4 game should look like.
KH3 looks amazing imo. KH4 gonna look even more insane on ps5 and UE5.
 

Rydgea

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it was simply outdated and not what a standard AAA ps4 game should look like.

Stylization is a thing though. See the KH's fairly modern deceased mobile games. Yes, not AAA, I know. But, if Square had chose to do so, they were within their rights to keep the same style as the PS2-era, but punch up the fidelity as they do with their renders (perfectly rounded, separated fingers, smooth on the nailbed, add more points of articulation to hair, facial expressions, etc). See the myriad other recent games that just make minor adjustments: Tales of series, Pokemon, Mario, etc. Personally, I think it's a style that lends itself exceptionally well, especially to the original 2D animated canon. What's done is done though, and I'm not upset about the new look. I see the technical achievement. It took some adjusting for me (particularly in the stages leading from 0.2 and up to release), but I think it's fine. I could have seen them close out the saga with the older style, though. The models they made for KH3!Sora & Kairi in MoM looked great. I think the grand finale and being launched two consoles after II is what made the graphical shift take precedence. Thematically, it made sense to do it too, as the worlds, for the majority, were based off computer animated properties.

KH3 looks amazing imo. KH4 gonna look even more insane on ps5 and UE5.

There are definitely going to need to be graphical overhauls for KH4, due to the "realistic" nature of Quadratum (and potentially other worlds). I do think IVs trailer looked pretty great and I'm excited for that "type" of KH when it rolls around, but I think my issue with III was that it was a weird in-between. While the characters looked at home in cartoon set dressing in 1 & 2, there is an uncanny valley, rubberized look to them in 3. I think maybe I had issues with some of the textures.
 

Ðari

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All I saw was two pages of "engine diff"

Would you rather they have taken care in saying the PS2's art-style was "Retrofitted" vs "Outdated". I'd sooner slap KH3 for the pacing of it's last phase of the game vs it's visual fidelity and aesthetic. Looking back on it now, Olympus as the intro world having great visuals and a sense of verticality, that was enough to impress me personally in terms of how much work the new engine could really do early on.
 

Ðari

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I'm not sure what you mean. Agreed on Olympus tho lol
I'll keep it a stack, I came in here with the intent to make a terrible joke about the engine debate, it didn't hit as intended (lol).

I mean, early beta on UE4 gave me flashes to PS3 cell-shading and I was praying for a more refined look, and they did manage to pull it off, the contrast from first footage to release was like night and day. I mean, I've played all of the GoW games, and not getting the same look and more of the same aesthetic was a nice change of pace, and those feelings for GoW resonate with the contrast between the PS2 and handheld games transitioning into KH3.

Purely talking about the look of the game.
 

BufferAqua

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I'll keep it a stack, I came in here with the intent to make a terrible joke about the engine debate, it didn't hit as intended (lol).

I mean, early beta on UE4 gave me flashes to PS3 cell-shading and I was praying for a more refined look, and they did manage to pull it off, the contrast from first footage to release was like night and day. I mean, I've played all of the GoW games, and not getting the same look and more of the same aesthetic was a nice change of pace, and those feelings for GoW resonate with the contrast between the PS2 and handheld games transitioning into KH3.

Purely talking about the look of the game.
Ah, no problem lol. Indeed, the look of KH3, especially in the first zone, drew me in right away. It was amazing to see the PS4's capabilities at the same.
 
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