Thanks Demi. Someone who actually makes sense for once.
I don't think I want to be a KH fan anymore.
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Thanks Demi. Someone who actually makes sense for once.
*Cough*
IGN on their game reviews:
So much to "making sense" and "truth". If there was an universal truth, every review would give the game the same score ^^
IGN on their game reviews:
So much to "making sense" and "truth". If there was an universal truth, every review would give the game the same score ^^
Alright, let's say I liked the Emoji Movie. The movie is known for being an uninspired, cliché-filled cash-grab.
But I just happened to enjoy it.
Would it make the movie any better? In my perspective, it would. But in REALITY, it will forever stay an uninspired, cliché-filled cash-grab. Because that is the movie's essence.
No matter how you look at things, they'll forever stay what they are. I can't believe you guys are so convinced that good and bad is subjective. That's what I hate about the modern society - everyone is just so full on their ways, not questioning them at least a little bit.
But I just happened to enjoy it.
Would it make the movie any better? In my perspective, it would. But in REALITY, it will forever stay an uninspired, cliché-filled cash-grab. Because that is the movie's essence.
No matter how you look at things, they'll forever stay what they are. I can't believe you guys are so convinced that good and bad is subjective. That's what I hate about the modern society - everyone is just so full on their ways, not questioning them at least a little bit.
As much as I appreciate all of your feedback, I wasn't asking anyone of anything. I was just sharing my feelings, hoping that someone would give me a solid reason to not give up on the series. Turns out, all your reasoning so far is "your opinion is all that matters", or "it all comes down to your personal preference".
That's not a reason, that's a zone of comfort everyone likes so much. Not very comfortable for me, because I know that people say all this toxic stuff about Kingdom Hearts not for the sake of trolling or being an asshole, but just because that's simply the way they feel. And that makes me question things.
That's not a reason, that's a zone of comfort everyone likes so much. Not very comfortable for me, because I know that people say all this toxic stuff about Kingdom Hearts not for the sake of trolling or being an asshole, but just because that's simply the way they feel. And that makes me question things.
I'm sorry, but just because you feel uncomfortable with people expressing criticism or even outright hating the series doesn't mean that everyone who can either discuss the issue with those people or ignore it because they're a so called "fanboy" and don't give a shit about somebody else's opinion doesn't mean that they're building themselves a comfort zone or are refusing to look at a non-existent truth.
I mean you literally said in your first post:
And how is it that somebody can say toxic stuff about Kingdom Hearts because that's the way they feel about the series, but you can't just enjoy the series because that's how you feel? Why is the bad thing the supposed truth and you liking it means you're a fanboy.
Engage in discussions with people. You'll find out quickly that most of them don't have profound arguments and won't have anything to rebut yours or they will block off everything with "well, I hate it, it sucks".
I mean you literally said in your first post:
So why don't you step out of your comfort zone and engage with those people? Because you don't believe they want to listen? Why would you bother with the opinion of somebody who isn't even willing to listen to counter arguments? How can they be right in their dislike of the series then?
And how is it that somebody can say toxic stuff about Kingdom Hearts because that's the way they feel about the series, but you can't just enjoy the series because that's how you feel? Why is the bad thing the supposed truth and you liking it means you're a fanboy.
Engage in discussions with people. You'll find out quickly that most of them don't have profound arguments and won't have anything to rebut yours or they will block off everything with "well, I hate it, it sucks".
Sorry if you think I sounded a little harsh during this discussion. And yeah, I saw it happen when people were just biased about stuff without any real argument.
As for the "engaging in discussions", I didn't even expect people would talk to me about this. You see, when I first made this thread, it wasn't posted right away. When I tried to find out why, I learned that threads now have to be accepted by Moderators in order to be published. But someone else's thread got published before mine could, so I decided that it wasn't approved, became upset and stopped visiting the forum.
After a month, I visited the forum once more. And, when I found out that my thread was ACTUALLY POSTED and had over 12 replies, I almost flipped my sheesh.
So I just want to say thank you. This was unexpected.
As for the "engaging in discussions", I didn't even expect people would talk to me about this. You see, when I first made this thread, it wasn't posted right away. When I tried to find out why, I learned that threads now have to be accepted by Moderators in order to be published. But someone else's thread got published before mine could, so I decided that it wasn't approved, became upset and stopped visiting the forum.
After a month, I visited the forum once more. And, when I found out that my thread was ACTUALLY POSTED and had over 12 replies, I almost flipped my sheesh.
So I just want to say thank you. This was unexpected.
Very popular series will have alot of "haters" for lack of a better word, but it will also have fanboy extremeists.
My person opinion is I love the series as a whole and pretty much every installment. Yes, maybe the concept of light vs dark, friendship, and hearts is silly and childish to some but isn't that what can also make a great story? There is a reason fans have waited so long for KH3 and bought every installment. I personally discuss things on reddit versus here for kingdom hearts just because I see alot more positive talk there.
Never give up, do not fall into darkness
My person opinion is I love the series as a whole and pretty much every installment. Yes, maybe the concept of light vs dark, friendship, and hearts is silly and childish to some but isn't that what can also make a great story? There is a reason fans have waited so long for KH3 and bought every installment. I personally discuss things on reddit versus here for kingdom hearts just because I see alot more positive talk there.
Never give up, do not fall into darkness
To tell the truth, this is not my first account on this website. My previous one has a constant server overload error, which made it basically unfunctional to use.
And here's what's weird: my previous experience with the forums was... unpleasant, to say the least. Toxic, for a better understanding.
But now it seems like I'm finally finding some people to just talk about Kingdom Hearts without any regrets. However, this account is still new and fresh, so it's too early to say.
And here's what's weird: my previous experience with the forums was... unpleasant, to say the least. Toxic, for a better understanding.
But now it seems like I'm finally finding some people to just talk about Kingdom Hearts without any regrets. However, this account is still new and fresh, so it's too early to say.
I dont think you should base your opinion on KH by what others say honestly
But I just hate how people say a bunch of stuff like "this game takes itself way too seriously" on YouTube and then it gets lots of likes. Around 30-40 or something.
Here is a pro tip. There are a lot more important things in your life than what comments get upvoted on Youtube. Just enjoy the discussions.
And here's a pro answer - that's far from the only thing I do in my life. I perfectly realize that there's important stuff to be done, and I often find myself doing it, but I just can't seem to ignore what other people think. And the more upvoted the thought is, the harder it is to ignore. If lots of people agree with a certain opinion, it becomes much more significant. Probably more significant than mine, because every time I try to defend something I like, I leave an impression of a fanboy that just can't accept the truth.
That's probably the general thought when Kingdom Hearts was first shown many, many years ago. And look what happened later.
You love Kingdom Hearts, so? It's not a guilty pleasure, not something to be ashamed of. It has quality, that can't be denied. It has quality and flaws, just like everything. The healthiest thing to do is to talk about the good and the bad. And something you probably already know: almost everyone LOVES to complain about EVERYTHING just for the sake for it... And in our society, hate speaks louder than love. That's why you feel the way you feel. Just keep enjoying this series and find a place where you can do it, a place that is not filled with blind love or hate (because both are bad).
Blind love isn't a bad thing. Well, as long as it doesn't go to the level of sending death threats to people simply pointing out what could be improved (it happened with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild).
But it's not blind hate we're talking about here. It's the legitimate complaints coming from people that just can't help but feel that Kingdom Hearts is a franchise that never worked story-and-character-wise. And then KH "fans" go in and type their little comments about how they agree with them and how they want it to be bad because it's unintentionally genius.
UNINTENTIONALLY
Mind-f*cking-blown. It almost feels like as if I should share all their sentiments simply because I'm a KH fan. Well, used to be, at least.
"Prepare for the fanboys that can't accept other people's opinions."
Guess what? There was no one there to defend anything about the series. And if you try, you'll be called a fanboy. Because "the first step in becoming a true KH fan is realizing how terrible the story is".
But it's not blind hate we're talking about here. It's the legitimate complaints coming from people that just can't help but feel that Kingdom Hearts is a franchise that never worked story-and-character-wise. And then KH "fans" go in and type their little comments about how they agree with them and how they want it to be bad because it's unintentionally genius.
UNINTENTIONALLY
Mind-f*cking-blown. It almost feels like as if I should share all their sentiments simply because I'm a KH fan. Well, used to be, at least.
"Prepare for the fanboys that can't accept other people's opinions."
Guess what? There was no one there to defend anything about the series. And if you try, you'll be called a fanboy. Because "the first step in becoming a true KH fan is realizing how terrible the story is".
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Yes and no. There are plenty of issues that people try to dismiss the lack of consensus as a fault of differing opinions when there should be a single truth. People try to remove the need for truth in such issues. But when it comes to reasons foe liking a game like Kingdom Hearts, the reasons are always a bit more personal and a little less factual. It's based on the kinds of things you like. I, for example, love the Kingdom Hearts series for various reasons, some of which aren't generally popular even within the fan base. I love the often-times over-complicated plot. It's so much fun for me to try and grasp the exact truth taught within the game. I love all the original characters, including and especially Sora, Kairi, and Riku. For whatever reason, I like the relationship between Sora and Kairi, though they really ought to move on from the friend-zone hugging. I love Disney animated films, and so I love most of the films' portrayals in the game. I love the character design on the original characters, as well as the design of the worlds on general. I have my critiques on the series, too. Were it not for the Bradygames guide, I would never have figured out what I was supposed to do in Wonderland or Deep Jungle in the first game, so I don't like how vague the objectives were in that game. I definitely don't like the series being originally spread out on so many systems, or that Re:coded's main plot is very copy-pasted from Kingdom Hearts and Chain of Memories, though I feel that same game's contribution to the overall plot is often underrated and too easily dismissed. All of that's based on my personal likes and dislikes. No one could logically convince me that the series plot sucks or that Kairi is unnecessary or that the non-numbered titles are irrelevant and mere spin-offs. And I think and live analytically.
One of the sad realities of the series is that it's a semi-popular game often critiqued by people who haven't played the games much. They simply critique from the outside looking in, passing their judgement as if it were logically valid. An often repeated and true example is IGN, which often reviews poorly the Kingdom Hearts games, and whose reviews show lack of experience or real following of the games (incidentally, I watched a couple of TheGamersJoint YouTube videos today critiquing IGN's poor reviews, first time ever; they were great). You can probably tell which reviews and critiques come from such people; they're the ones who think we've been waiting for twelve years for a game that's been in development officially for only four. Dismiss those the same way they dismiss the Kingdom Hearts series. They go into it often with the bias that the games will never be worth the time or money or hype, even as the games slowly become more popular.
For everyone else, there will always be disagreements of the direction the series takes or the details in any or all of the games. I have my questions for the currently constantly changing Union Cross. They are the ones you should listen to and seek to understand, and try to explain your views and opinions to them. They're the ones whose opinions aren't an attempt to simply trash the series under the guise of a "real fan", but rather, they're the real fans. If you stick around here and other established sites like KH13 and KHWiki (where I'm based), you'll find those same fans.
I sure hope you don't ditch the series over the poor critiques of so-called fans and game experts. While there are definitely some things that can have non-biased judgement to determine whether a game is good or not, much of the greatness of any game series, including the Kingdom Hearts series, is based on the personal opinions of those who play it.
Funny I keep seeing this kind of discussions in this period (or maybe it's not, given the circumstances)
I can relate to most of these feelings, I myself am taking some distance from the series (although there are more reasons to it)
Regarding this:
Do I agree with you about the fandom. The problem is, forget 40-60 likes. A lot of medium/big youtubers and influencers share that... "non-knowledge bias" on the franchise. TeamFourStar, ProZD, Giantbomb to name a few (can I say the names or it's against some rule? Let me know and I'll edit if that's the case).
Hundreds thousands of people follow them, and upon hearing the constant bashing on it, the recurring jokes and false myths about it, they will either think "Oh man I don't know anything about KH but if these guys say it's bad, then it is" or "see? I was right in bashing it! Also Donald never heals lol"
KH1 is literally my favourite game ever. And I cannot follow any of my favourite channels should they do a let's play on it because I will be forced to hear that it's a bad game, it doesn't explain anything and other similar absurdities.
And this is not about me being that one fanboy that knows everything about a game and screams when less experienced people fail at it, this is just... witnessing a one-sided slaughter. Almost everytime without true or real basis.
What's even more frustrating is that when it comes to KH the "haters" or even just the "it's so bad it's so good" people are... really stubborn and deaf to reasoning. Like, seriously. It's like for them acknowledging they might be wrong about KH is unacceptable, the worst thing ever. It's like they "lose" something if they give in.
Dark Souls is amazing for having well-intertwined ares and smart shortcuts? So does KH1, but in that case it's bad.
Old-school games are products that reward effort and skills, so dying is okay, it's probably the player's fault. Dying in KH1? It's always the game's fault. Bad game.
Sorry for going a bit on a rant, had to blow off some steam. But yeah, all of this and more on a single game. It's even worse on the entire franchise.
I'll say, there is fault on KH's side. Bad decisions were made, and nothing is perfect and will appeal to all. But a lot of critique is unjustified, and "tastes are different" doesn't even begin to excuse it.
If I had to summarize the main issue in one sentence: people don't take KH seriously.
Many "old" geeks and nerds see it only as a Disney product with dumb anime tropes; others think it's only a platform to relive the Disney movies of your childhood and nothing more to it; others only as a confusing series that never makes sense.
"Only" being the operative word. You can enjoy KH for whatever reason and again, I won't say some of these flaws aren't actually there. But this is how misinformation is born and spread: not paying attention to cutscenes, not believing you might be wrong about something. Because in your mind this is a dumb Disney product, and being wrong means you're dumber than this dumb Disney product. Unacceptable.
So KH it's bad, everyone is either Xehanort or Sora, not-numbered games are spin-offs (that's how we got people looking at Young Xehanort in the latest trailer saying "That's Xemnas!"), don't pay attention to the mobile games because it's just a pay2win game that will never be relevant, Donald never heals you stop saying I can modify that in the settings I can't you're just a salty fanboy.
How to ignore all of that? I'm trying to figure it out myself, tell me if you find a way. You received a bunch of good suggestions: talk about it only with people you feel comfortable with (not necessarly people that think like you, debate is useful. It just needs to be constructive), avoid places with high toxicity (avoid Youtube comments under anything KH related, really)
And if you still suffer, well... your well-being comes before anything else. If you really feel like dropping the franchise, do it. Maybe it's your self giving you a message. Perhaps you, me... we just neeed a temporary break.
I can relate to most of these feelings, I myself am taking some distance from the series (although there are more reasons to it)
Regarding this:
Do I agree with you about the fandom. The problem is, forget 40-60 likes. A lot of medium/big youtubers and influencers share that... "non-knowledge bias" on the franchise. TeamFourStar, ProZD, Giantbomb to name a few (can I say the names or it's against some rule? Let me know and I'll edit if that's the case).
Hundreds thousands of people follow them, and upon hearing the constant bashing on it, the recurring jokes and false myths about it, they will either think "Oh man I don't know anything about KH but if these guys say it's bad, then it is" or "see? I was right in bashing it! Also Donald never heals lol"
KH1 is literally my favourite game ever. And I cannot follow any of my favourite channels should they do a let's play on it because I will be forced to hear that it's a bad game, it doesn't explain anything and other similar absurdities.
And this is not about me being that one fanboy that knows everything about a game and screams when less experienced people fail at it, this is just... witnessing a one-sided slaughter. Almost everytime without true or real basis.
What's even more frustrating is that when it comes to KH the "haters" or even just the "it's so bad it's so good" people are... really stubborn and deaf to reasoning. Like, seriously. It's like for them acknowledging they might be wrong about KH is unacceptable, the worst thing ever. It's like they "lose" something if they give in.
Dark Souls is amazing for having well-intertwined ares and smart shortcuts? So does KH1, but in that case it's bad.
Old-school games are products that reward effort and skills, so dying is okay, it's probably the player's fault. Dying in KH1? It's always the game's fault. Bad game.
Sorry for going a bit on a rant, had to blow off some steam. But yeah, all of this and more on a single game. It's even worse on the entire franchise.
I'll say, there is fault on KH's side. Bad decisions were made, and nothing is perfect and will appeal to all. But a lot of critique is unjustified, and "tastes are different" doesn't even begin to excuse it.
If I had to summarize the main issue in one sentence: people don't take KH seriously.
Many "old" geeks and nerds see it only as a Disney product with dumb anime tropes; others think it's only a platform to relive the Disney movies of your childhood and nothing more to it; others only as a confusing series that never makes sense.
"Only" being the operative word. You can enjoy KH for whatever reason and again, I won't say some of these flaws aren't actually there. But this is how misinformation is born and spread: not paying attention to cutscenes, not believing you might be wrong about something. Because in your mind this is a dumb Disney product, and being wrong means you're dumber than this dumb Disney product. Unacceptable.
So KH it's bad, everyone is either Xehanort or Sora, not-numbered games are spin-offs (that's how we got people looking at Young Xehanort in the latest trailer saying "That's Xemnas!"), don't pay attention to the mobile games because it's just a pay2win game that will never be relevant, Donald never heals you stop saying I can modify that in the settings I can't you're just a salty fanboy.
How to ignore all of that? I'm trying to figure it out myself, tell me if you find a way. You received a bunch of good suggestions: talk about it only with people you feel comfortable with (not necessarly people that think like you, debate is useful. It just needs to be constructive), avoid places with high toxicity (avoid Youtube comments under anything KH related, really)
And if you still suffer, well... your well-being comes before anything else. If you really feel like dropping the franchise, do it. Maybe it's your self giving you a message. Perhaps you, me... we just neeed a temporary break.
Wow, it's been 20 days and I thought that this topic was dead, but no, now is the time some actually useful stuff is being said, oddly enough.
I started hearing lots of positive things about Kingdom Hearts after I kinda distanced myself from the series. Even when going into the review videos with a mindset like "oh great, another bunch of people that are trying to look smart", I surprisingly find myself proven wrong - people still talk about it like it's a real deal.
But I dunno, I'm kinda afraid to get hyped up for the series like I used to; but what I do know is that I'm not gonna ditch it entirely. Like some of you said, I just need to take a break.
I started hearing lots of positive things about Kingdom Hearts after I kinda distanced myself from the series. Even when going into the review videos with a mindset like "oh great, another bunch of people that are trying to look smart", I surprisingly find myself proven wrong - people still talk about it like it's a real deal.
But I dunno, I'm kinda afraid to get hyped up for the series like I used to; but what I do know is that I'm not gonna ditch it entirely. Like some of you said, I just need to take a break.