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Huge Xemnas Theory, Including Why He didn't use a Keyblade (spoilers)



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Zubine

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You seriously need someone to actually say "this is how it is" for you to understand how something is? That is so pathetic. Do you not understand how "Show, Don't Tell" works? Ugh. Ugh. UGH. I don't need Nomura to say it bluntly to know it is the truth, and as I pointed out before NOMURA HAS MADE MANY COMMENTS THAT POINT THIS TO BE THE CASE. The only reason he doesn't say it is probably because he figures fans are smart enough to understand it already.

Hey I said it before and I'll say it again, it makes 100% sense to me that Roxas would have Ven's heart/fractured heart/whatever thats Ven's in him, but Noruma never stated, verbally or within any game that this is the case, therefore making it a theory and not a fact.
 

chasespicer056

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You seriously need someone to actually say "this is how it is" for you to understand how something is? That is so pathetic. Do you not understand how "Show, Don't Tell" works? Ugh. Ugh. UGH. I don't need Nomura to say it bluntly to know it is the truth, and as I pointed out before NOMURA HAS MADE MANY COMMENTS THAT POINT THIS TO BE THE CASE. The only reason he doesn't say it is probably because he figures fans are smart enough to understand it already.

No! When Nomura wants something to be a fact, he says so! He has established things in his interviews before.

I really don't get this. You assume that since you see evidence for something, it's suddenly a fact, even when there's evidence that could suggest otherwise.
 

HeartSeams

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No! When Nomura wants something to be a fact, he says so! He has established things in his interviews before.
Oh. My. God.

I really don't get this. You assume that since you see evidence for something, it's suddenly a fact, even when there's evidence that could suggest otherwise.
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE THAT SAYS ROXAS CAN'T HAVE VEN'S HEART.
 

Zubine

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Oh. My. God.


SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE THAT SAYS ROXAS CAN'T HAVE VEN'S HEART.

Lmao, this can go on forever, shows us where its confirmed that he does have it? Also, please just link up where Noruma said its fact, if he in fact said yes, that would stop my brain from having a meltdown and the whole series would make more sense but as he never said yes....were back to where we started.
 

HeartSeams

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Lmao, this can go on forever, shows us where its confirmed that he does have it? Also, please just link up where Noruma said its fact, if he in fact said yes, that would stop my brain from having a meltdown and the whole series would make more sense but as he never said yes....were back to where we started.
How about we forget Nomura for one flying fuck's second and you guys just show me evidence that says Roxas can't have Ven's heart.
 

Zubine

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How about we forget Nomura for one flying fuck's second and you guys just show me evidence that says Roxas can't have Ven's heart.

Obviously you've only read half of my posts, I said I fully agree that Roxas could literally be holding Ventus' heart, it makes 100% perfect sense to me, it makes a lot of things fit together beautifully, but as long as HE doesn't say its fact than...well we cant say its true, Its his story, not ours.
 

chasespicer056

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How about we forget Nomura for one flying fuck's second and you guys just show me evidence that says Roxas can't have Ven's heart.

I have been!

You still don't understand this fundamental concept of the Kingdom Hearts universe: every theory has pros and cons to it, points that can be proven and counterpoints that can be proven.

That's why we had TONS of different theories on who Xehanort was before BBS came out. There were people who thought he was Vanitas, and there was evidence for it alright. But they were ultimately WRONG!

I have made points about how Namine is still a mystery, how her ability to have emotions and her blonde hair are still a mystery.

Obviously you've only read half of my posts, I said I fully agree that Roxas could literally be holding Ventus' heart, it makes 100% perfect sense to me, it makes a lot of things fit together beautifully, but as long as HE doesn't say its fact that...well we cant say its true, Its his story, not ours.

Honestly just ignore her. When you give her facts to make an argument, she shoots it down because the argument hasn't been established as a fact, and then she pretends her own opinions are facts even when there's evidence against it.
 

Vani

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How about we forget Nomura for one flying fuck's second and you guys just show me evidence that says Roxas can't have Ven's heart.
The fact that Nomura says maybe on the subject should be proof enough that there is still a chance we are incorrect.
 

HeartSeams

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I have been!

You still don't understand this fundamental concept of the Kingdom Hearts universe: every theory has pros and cons to it, points that can be proven and counterpoints that can be proven.

That's why we had TONS of different theories on who Xehanort was before BBS came out. There were people who thought he was Vanitas, and there was evidence for it alright. But they were ultimately WRONG!

I have made points about how Namine is still a mystery, how her ability to have emotions and her blonde hair are still a mystery.



Honestly just ignore her. When you give her facts to make an argument, she shoots it down because the argument hasn't been established as a fact, and then she pretends her own opinions are facts even when there's evidence against it.
How hard is it for you to understand? Tell me why Roxas can't have Ven's heart, not why Nami possibly could.

The fact that Nomura says maybe on the subject should be proof enough that there is still a chance we are incorrect.
I see "Let's forget about Nomura" lasted for less than a millisecond.
 

Hamster Lord

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This is a good, well thought out theory chasespicer, better than what I could come up with.

But I don't want to say anything for it or against it so I don't join this shitstorm going down lol
 

Vani

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I see "Let's forget about Nomura" lasted for less than a millisecond.
Are you honestly that arrogant? Nomura CREATED Kingdom Hearts. Although he's retconned things before we still have to accept his words as law (in the kh universe at least).
 

KingdomSealer2

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I like this theory. I was thinking the reason he didn't use a Keyblade was because there were some repercussions to summoning it. So him using MX's Keyblade and it having an effect on his emotions makes sense.
 

chasespicer056

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The fact that Nomura says maybe on the subject should be proof enough that there is still a chance we are incorrect.

How hard is it for you to understand? Tell me why Roxas can't have Ven's heart, not why Nami possibly could.


I see "Let's forget about Nomura" lasted for less than a millisecond.

Because, if Roxas ACTUALLY had Ven's heart, if it was actually a part of him, he would have been able to see at least one of Ven's memories. He would have at least been aware of it or seen hints of it. When Sora had Kairi's heart harbored in him, he kept seeing visions of her. When Terra was arguing with MX in the secret ending, he somehow knew that he had Eraqus's heart. And the fact that he told Axel that if he had a heart he would actually know it is there also shows that Roxas didn't feel anything there and thus didn't have Ven's heart.

This is a good, well thought out theory chasespicer, better than what I could come up with.

But I don't want to say anything for it or against it so I don't join this shitstorm going down lol

Thank you.

Yeah I don't blame you.
 

gxyoumo14

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anyone consider looking at what we know. to begin xion isnt applicable, shes a replica. if anything shes comparable to replica riku. xemnas and roxas are byproducts of a body with multiple hearts. by the way so is namine. all three have characteristics of their somebodies. xemnas looks and thinks like terra but behaves like master xehanort. namine kinda-ish looks like kairi but can manipulate the memories of hearts connected to soras, and roxas looks like ven and has soras memories. thats what we know for sure.

sure roxas could have vens heart but the way he came to be was by a meathod a nobody is made. separation of body and soul from heart
 

HeartSeams

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Because, if Roxas ACTUALLY had Ven's heart, if it was actually a part of him, he would have been able to see at least one of Ven's memories.
I'm sorry, but, why would he be able to see it? Sora never experienced any of Ven's memories even though he had his heart for ten years or so. You're forgetting the key thing in all of this is that Ven's heart was fractured and "asleep". It doesn't function the same as a full and awake heart like Kairi's.

When Sora had Kairi's heart harbored in him, he kept seeing visions of her.
Right, and you're forgetting that all through KH1, Sora had Ven's heart yet saw no visions of him. This is because Ven's heart was asleep.

And the fact that he told Axel that if he had a heart he would actually know it is there also shows that Roxas didn't feel anything there and thus didn't have Ven's heart.
Again, that's not what the scene was saying. In the Japanese version of that scene, what he actually says is completely different. But when S-E had to localize the game for English, they had to choose wording that matched with the lip movements and pacing of the Japanese video, so they made the lines that. This is what Roxas actually said:

AXEL: "Roxas... you have a heart don't you? No, Naminé and me, too... do we really not have hearts?"
ROXAS: "That's... I don't know that either."
AXEL: "I guess you wouldn't..."
ROXAS: "But, I've started thinking, maybe the heart's not something you can see or feel. And if so... no, I'll leave it there."
AXEL: "Hm? What, right at the most important part?

Are you honestly that arrogant? Nomura CREATED Kingdom Hearts. Although he's retconned things before we still have to accept his words as law (in the kh universe at least).
So fucking what? Does that mean we have to only go by what he says when thinking about the games? No, it doesn't. Just because Nomura might have said "maybe" (still haven't seen proof of this anyway) doesn't mean the games don't spell it out. Consider a few things: Nomura hates answering mysteries, he's said so himself; he also likes keeping speculation up. He said "maybe" because he didn't want to say "yes", but that doesn't actually mean the answer isn't there. Nomura is just a man.
 

chasespicer056

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I'm sorry, but, why would he be able to see it? Sora never experienced any of Ven's memories even though he had his heart for ten years or so. You're forgetting the key thing in all of this is that Ven's heart was fractured and "asleep". It doesn't function the same as a full and awake heart like Kairi's.


Right, and you're forgetting that all through KH1, Sora had Ven's heart yet saw no visions of him. This is because Ven's heart was asleep.


Again, that's not what the scene was saying. In the Japanese version of that scene, what he actually says is completely different. But when S-E had to localize the game for English, they had to choose wording that matched with the lip movements and pacing of the Japanese video, so they made the lines that. This is what Roxas actually said:

AXEL: "Roxas... you have a heart don't you? No, Naminé and me, too... do we really not have hearts?"
ROXAS: "That's... I don't know that either."
AXEL: "I guess you wouldn't..."
ROXAS: "But, I've started thinking, maybe the heart's not something you can see or feel. And if so... no, I'll leave it there."
AXEL: "Hm? What, right at the most important part?


So fucking what? Does that mean we have to only go by what he says when thinking about the games? No, it doesn't. Just because Nomura might have said "maybe" (still haven't seen proof of this anyway) doesn't mean the games don't spell it out. Consider a few things: Nomura hates answering mysteries, he's said so himself; he also likes keeping speculation up. He said "maybe" because he didn't want to say "yes", but that doesn't actually mean the answer isn't there. Nomura is just a man.

The Days opening is what I said. And I go by the English versions of the games. And I'm not quoting Nomura even! I'm going by my own observations of the series! You're the one who keeps bringing him up.

Look, yes or no, are you willing to admit that it's POSSIBLE that Roxas DOESN'T have Ven's heart?

vanitas.jpg
 

Zubine

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I remembered soemthing quite intertesting, remember when Xigbar looked at Xion in the end of 358/2 and saw Ventus? Maybe somehow, someway that Maybe that Noruma answered to 'that' question, could have something to do with this? Maybe Xion was a replica of Sora with Ven heart? It goes agianst what I've known but hey, Xigbar saw her for a reason, Xemnas supposedly saw the same thing no?
 

HeartSeams

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You took that from a rough Japanese translation.
No, i took it from an extremely polished translation.

The Days opening is what I said. That's what they actually say.
I'm sorry you don't understand that when games go through localization that they can be mistranslated, but that is not what the creators of KH had intended for them to say. And that's the big difference.

Look, yes or no, are you willing to admit that it's POSSIBLE that Roxas DOESN'T have Ven's heart?
There is no possibility that Roxas doesn't have Ven's heart.
 

Vani

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So fucking what? Does that mean we have to only go by what he says when thinking about the games? No, it doesn't. Just because Nomura might have said "maybe" (still haven't seen proof of this anyway) doesn't mean the games don't spell it out. Consider a few things: Nomura hates answering mysteries, he's said so himself; he also likes keeping speculation up. He said "maybe" because he didn't want to say "yes", but that doesn't actually mean the answer isn't there. Nomura is just a man.
A man who created the whole game and therefore should be tooken seriously when he adresses it.
Its true he like to keep things a mystery and you could be totally right about him only saying that as a cover up as "yes" but still, the fact is he said it and therefore we have no choice but to wait for a direct confermation.
 
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