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How would you feel if you learned that God did exist?



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you can't call yourself, or even partly call yourself an atheist and at the same time say OH WELL HE MAY OR MAY NOT BE, that's bogus. you are either sure or not sure.

With all due respect, you are completely and 100% wrong about this and you have a penis for a nose and nobody cares about what you think and you will die alone.
 

Silh

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Except for the part where atheism is the rejection of religion.
 

krexia

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if you are SURE by faith there's a God or not a God, that's WHY they are theists and atheists respectively, everything else is agnosticism simply even if there's a MODICUM of uncertainty one way or the other. this "agnostic atheism" moniker is basically a waste of breath
No, people who are SURE there is or isn't a god are gnostics. You can be a gnostic a/theist or an agnostic a/theist; again, epistemology and belief are independent.
 
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atheism is a complete lack of belief i'm pretty sure that's by definition different from agnosticism

I'm pretty sure you don't understand the concept of gnosticism and you should go do a little bit of research before you decide to broadcast your ignorance any further.
 

Ophan

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so far as you still have these questions to answer your a religious person, and i'm pretty sure atheist want to have these questions answered
1. Where did i come from
2. why am i alive
3. what is my purpose in life

Atheists actually don't ask those questions, as they've already given themselves logical answers to them
 
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so far as you still have these questions to answer your a religious person, and i'm pretty sure atheist want to have these questions answered
1. Where did i come from
2. why am i alive
3. what is my purpose in life

Atheists actually don't ask those questions, as they've already given themselves logical answers to them

I don't agree. I'm an Atheist, and I absolutely wonder about these questions. I just don't think that the God hypothesis adequately answers any of them, or that the God hypothesis in and of itself makes any sense. And that's all that atheism is -- not believing in a deity. It isn't even a rejection of religion, just a rejection of god. There are a handful of Atheistic religions out there, like most sects of Buddhism.

To me, being an Atheist is about being humble, intelligent and honest enough to stare questions like Amaefuna's in the face and to say without fear that I don't know the answers to them. I don't. I really, really don't. I don't have the answers to all of these questions, and neither do any of you. Many of you like to pretend that you do, which is fine, except that you don't.
 

Silh

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so far as you still have these questions to answer your a religious person, and i'm pretty sure atheist want to have these questions answered
1. Where did i come from
2. why am i alive
3. what is my purpose in life
Asking these would mean buying into religion? News to me.
 

Professor Ven

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so far as you still have these questions to answer your a religious person, and i'm pretty sure atheist want to have these questions answered
1. Where did i come from
2. why am i alive
3. what is my purpose in life

4. Why bother asking the questions, when you can answer them yourself, deity or no deity?
 

Dexel

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I'd probably be rather apathetic about it. I have no reason to believe he does or doesn't exist, so I don't pay him any attention anyway. I don't need faith as a medium to keep existing. He exists? Maybe feel regret knowing I'm screwed over on so many levels. He doesn't exist? Not surprising, but I can finally tell everyone for sure to shut the fluff up.

*looking at God* "Well, Shittes and Sunnis, I'll be d***ed. You really do exist. Well...don't this suck." >goes home and resumes daily activities<​
 

Hidden

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No, it's agnostic atheism. Both theists and atheists can be agnostic; agnosticism is an epistemological stance, independent of belief.
but at ANY point that there's a "well I don't know" between His "being" or "not being," that's agnosticism, regardless if they act that way all the time or simply "part of the time." there's no apex or in-between of agnosticism and atheism

if you are SURE by faith there's a God or not a God, that's WHY they are theists and atheists respectively, everything else is agnosticism simply even if there's a MODICUM of uncertainty one way or the other. this "agnostic atheism" moniker is basically a waste of breath

you can't call yourself, or even partly call yourself an atheist and at the same time say OH WELL HE MAY OR MAY NOT BE, that's bogus. you are either sure or not sure.
I've heard both of these arguments, and am unsure which to subscribe to. I tend to prefer krexia's, which paints a more complete picture for me. If we simply take any worldview that includes a modicum of doubt, about the existence of a god or about anything for that matter, and group them all under the umbrella term of agnosticism, that doesn't tell me enough. There are plenty of things that we do not know, but we must act on them nonetheless. So we form structures of assumptions and beliefs, upon which we act when we do not know something. If a person tells me they do not know if there is a god, I may still ask, "Yes--but do you pray to one?" More directly, do you act as if there is a god; do you think and make decisions under the assumption that there is a god? These structures of assumptions and beliefs are what I'm looking for in the terms theism and atheism, not simply whether a person is sure or unsure on the existence of god. How else do I distinguish between the agnostic who acts on the assumption that there is a god and the agnostic who acts as though there were none?


This isn't a side-issue -- it's directly tied to the opening question of the thread, "How would you feel if you learned that God did exist?" This eliminates from our consciousness agnosticism of any description, and I don't think enough thought has been given to how completely we would have to restructure the world from a model that is, I would argue, predominately agnostic. Semper Sanctum suggests this in his own post:
That it would forever interrupt the course of human events and change life on Earth irrevocably. Sadly, I am no prophet, so I can't say whether that would be good or bad.
Anyone who is not a theist by wu tang goku's description of the term, already knowing that there is a god, would find their universe changed in some way. Just crossing our arms and looking the other way, as some have suggested, would not cut it; and it probably would not be so simple as embracing a long-lost father either. As for questions we might ask of god, I cannot imagine we would receive answers any more satisfying than those which Job in the Tanakh/Old Testament received: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand" (Job 38:4). It would be left to us to refigure our place in the universe, to find new ways to pose the questions of free will, human suffering, and morality. But most importantly, we would no longer have the freedom of interpretation to decide whether or not to include god into our reckoning--all philosophy, religion, and science would have to include and answer to the immanent knowledge of god's existence.

We have done this before--Medieval Christian and Jewish scholars were incredibly intricate thinkers in structuring all of these into a complete model of god and the universe. But I think even the theistically-inclined of us today are far removed from this level of integration. A lot of new thought has been developed and entered into our model of the universe since Nietzsche's pronouncement in 1882, The Gay Science, that "God is dead;" we would have to adapt or abandon much of this. And it is not only the explicitly atheistic--the agnostic as well, all the suppositions built out of our uncertainty of the existence of a god. We would not be able at this point to move directly back into a medieval mindset; but we could not keep our own. I think mankind would have a very difficult time reconciling itself to the knowledge of god's existence.

Depends on the god. If it's the NT God, bullet dodged. If it's the OT God, we are all so fluffed. If it's Odin, then vikings.
Wow. Somehow I had never considered this. The last part, at least.
 
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Square Ninja

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I'm pretty sure you don't understand the concept of gnosticism and you should go do a little bit of research before you decide to broadcast your ignorance any further.

eat my jorts mouthbreather

i noticed this was "gnosticism" not "agnosticism" after reading hidden's post carry on
 

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Worry how Christian Extremists will react and watch if the child molestation will rise.
 

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Continue as before, what else could you possibly do. After all, trying to converse with it had never worked before, the knowledge doesn't change anything.
 

Phoenix

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I'm late, apparently.

Gnosticism and agnosticism are declarations of knowledge: I know this, or I don't know this.

Theism and atheism are declarations of belief: I believe this, or I don't believe this.

An agnostic atheist (which is what I define myself as) is someone who doesn't believe gods exist, but declares that he doesn't know this for sure.

you are a CHRISTIAN so which other GOD are you talking about

Wow, whatever gave you the impression that I was a Christian?

funny thing is that atheist are still religious people so stop arguing

That's less of a "funny thing" and more along the lines of "totally incorrect".
 

D VLK

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Hmm I will probably ask him why we exist or why or how he came to existence.
 

Tenyas

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I find it sort of funny in an ill way how these conversations most always relate to only the Christian God or the Trinity, although I have seen some topics on Muslim views it also still relates to the same overhanging deity and various Saints. I'm wondering why the question asked wasn't, "If any religion in this world did become absolute fact, how would you feel?" Because, really, that is more believable to me by now than just 'God' becoming an absolute existence.

Anyway, if the Christian Deity were to arise in some show, like mass-spread voice or something since their appearance is a highly contested thing [I don't see why the masculine 'he' is used, shouldn't such a God be gender-neutral or are we still centric upon the belief that male=power?], I would be utterly horrified by now. Sure, the Bible may contest that humankind has free-will, but how is that supported when you have an omnipotent being that is stated to assuredly know all that there is and all that can or will be done? Even if you supposedly had a choice in action, in that sort of world any action you would have made would already be known by an overhanging deity. You could not decide to skip a day of work without them barging in and saying, "I saw that" or actually go to work that day without him also saying, "I see everything you do/know everything you've done".

I don't very much see this as a parental figure, so any 'comfort' gained would be nonexistent for me. I think that by abandoning us, mental infants in a sense, we should put a neglect verdict upon God. :V Although, that's just silly.

I find it frightening how the only words we have to base this 'God' upon are those from men. Not just humans, no, but humans from centuries ago who knew not of the various oddities we're dealing with now. Never had I heard of the Christian faith's texts teach us how to go about children with Autism or Downs syndrome. Never have I heard some Catholic say that the Bible showed them the way to view substance abuse from their parents. It seems like the only thing the Bible really does is give some overarching, vague, and general advice that never really says much of anything for today's world. That is merely my view, so take it with a grain of salt.

To get to the point, I am currently an agnostic atheist. :B If that hasn't been clarified yet, that means that I am still debating the existence of any supernatural deity while still leaning towards the disbelief spectrum. Throwing 'agnostic' on means I am not absolute while 'atheist' means not towards the religious spectrum. Make sense?
 
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