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gosoxtim

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so this is for the sereis anocther chapter cloes for me

[video=youtube;naW9U8MiUY0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naW9U8MiUY0[/video]
 
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Pokie

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Was never too big into this movie series, but have to really admit that this movie is looking really adorbs. Also people getting upset over this movie because it's about "het dragons mating " are hilarious. It's.....cartoon dragons.
 
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I'm so excited about this movie, and my friend.......... well she's screaming into my ear, she's that excited.


Also, Hiccup with a beard??? No. Just no. What do you guys think?
 

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Also, Hiccup with a beard??? No. Just no. What do you guys think?
Heck yeah! He looks great, I'm just so happy that Dreamworks is taking this franchise to a new level.
So happy that Toothless is there with him.

What do you think about the visuals? The film is 9 months away and about 7-6 months to finish production.
People at Dreamworks are working really hard with this one.
 

alexis.anagram

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I'll see it because I loved the first one, but I hope they really do let the series end after this.

Also people getting upset over this movie because it's about "het dragons mating " are hilarious. It's.....cartoon dragons.
Can't speak for others, but it's underwhelming to me because it sends yet another message about every character (even non-human ones!) in every thing ever being pre-destined to find themselves caught up in het romance somewhere along the line; especially if the character is "male" there's this near ubiquitous trend of some perfect girl just waiting out there to be stumbled upon. I wouldn't mind so much if this dragon had been present from the first film and was a fully realized character in her own right (like American Ferreras' character is...sort of) but it strikes me as a writer's room which ran out of ideas and forced a story around the good ol' "give the guy a girlfriend!" plotline life raft.

Your statement also seems to imply that it would be weird or uncomfortable if "cartoon dragons" were to be gay, but straight "cartoon dragon" stuff is perfectly OK? Sorry if I misread it, but yeah; if we can anthropomorphize fictional animal characters to the extent that they achieve the same or similar mannerisms and levels of intelligence/communicative capacity as humans, we should be able to portray them existing along the same spectrum of romantic and sexual interest, and that's leaving out the fact that non-human animals IRL display a spectrum of sexual habits anyway.

What do you think about the visuals? The film is 9 months away and about 7-6 months to finish production.
People at Dreamworks are working really hard with this one.
I remember the initial teaser trailer for HTTYD 2 really emphasized its advancements in animation and got me excited to see the movie, this one just seems like standard fare intended to moreso serve as a reminder that this franchise even exists to me. It feels obligatory, like there isn't as much of a creative spark behind it as the previous two. Hopefully I'm wrong; some of the scenes were definitely pretty and well-animated, but the first movie blended so many emotions together in such an exceptional fashion, and then the second movie felt more strained to me. It's just hard to catch lighting in a bottle twice.
 

ImVentus

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Personally Dragon 2's aesthetics is one of my all time favourites. I love every single frame in that film. So I think unless they polish this one up, it will be a hard time to believe that it could look better. That being said there were a collection of frames, imagery that I was impressed by. I think they did a great job with Toothless in Dragon 2, blending him with the more photo realistic backgrounds. I sure hope they try to do the same here.

Spoiler Spoiler Show
The Great Hall. I think this shot is great and a huge improvement from the previous films involved with this area. I love the color and detail.

Spoiler Spoiler Show
Older Hiccup. Looks really smooth but it doesn't seem quite finished. Where's his freckles and facial features? They don't magically dissappear when you age.

Spoiler Spoiler Show
The Hidden World



This is a very pretty shot. The light on his armour, grass, the detail on his sleeves. I hope that they still got a lot to improve, cause it still needs some polishing.
 
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Howler

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I did have a liking for the franchise at first, then it kinda dimmed a bit after awhile.
This movie may bring my liking back.
 

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If this is the final film I think the last shot of this film will be the son/daughter of Hiccup and Astrid riding on the offspring of Toothless and his female counterpart.
 

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Can't speak for others, but it's underwhelming to me because it sends yet another message about every character (even non-human ones!) in every thing ever being pre-destined to find themselves caught up in het romance somewhere along the line; especially if the character is "male" there's this near ubiquitous trend of some perfect girl just waiting out there to be stumbled upon. I wouldn't mind so much if this dragon had been present from the first film and was a fully realized character in her own right (like American Ferreras' character is...sort of) but it strikes me as a writer's room which ran out of ideas and forced a story around the good ol' "give the guy a girlfriend!" plotline life raft.
I think you are looking too deeply into this movie. The male dragon is the last of his kind, and he needs to mate in order to continue his race. It's more about him having the chance to breed with a female partner so there can be future dragons. It's a bizarre animation cliche, but it's truth in fiction.

Your statement also seems to imply that it would be weird or uncomfortable if "cartoon dragons" were to be gay, but straight "cartoon dragon" stuff is perfectly OK? Sorry if I misread it, but yeah; if we can anthropomorphize fictional animal characters to the extent that they achieve the same or similar mannerisms and levels of intelligence/communicative capacity as humans, we should be able to portray them existing along the same spectrum of romantic and sexual interest, and that's leaving out the fact that non-human animals IRL display a spectrum of sexual habits anyway.
If it was humans then there might be a bigger reason for a concern because there's about zero, next to nothing reputation for LGBT + folk like me ( I'm Bisexual ) in animated movies, expect if you count "gay coded " Disney villains, and maybe Shang from Mulan. But it's a fantasy creature, who are not real. Not saying that it's weird or strange if the dragons were to be gay, just that if it was humans, THEN it would be a reason to be annoyed, but it's dragon's, it would be like getting riled up because a banshee ghost is having a heterosexual romance, they don't exist. They're fantasy creatures. If it was another Disney human romance movie with another heterosexual love story, then okay, but dragons ?!

Toothless doesn't seem to achieve the same level of intelligence of a human being, he seems to copy the behaviours of a bird looking to impress a mate, like a peacock. Some birds can be homosexual, but this movie's romance subplot is about last of race.

Another straight romantic story in animation media ? Sure, that's a huge reason to be frustrated, but dragons ? That's the hill you want to die on ??


Gay dragons ? Cool. Het dragons ? Okay then.
 
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alexis.anagram

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I think you are looking too deeply into this movie. The male dragon is the last of his kind, and he needs to mate in order to continue his race. It's more about him having the chance to breed with a female partner so there can be future dragons. It's a bizarre animation cliche, but it's truth in fiction.
And that premise is a large part of the reason I have a problem with it, in that it just isn't interesting or inspired. The female dragon is seemingly being introduced in order to fill the need for a plot device within Toothless' story rather than carrying her own weight within the narrative, which isn't a persuasive reason to introduce a new character. It brushes up against some of the reasons I really enjoy the first film and its breakdown of masculine tropes by standardizing Toothless' character arc: of course there's a female dragon somewhere out there for him to mate with, he's a male and a main character, what else should the audience expect. Never mind some of the more effective and moving routes they could have taken; off the top of my head, they could have had Toothless discover an unhatched egg which is determined to be of his kind, but it needs to be given care or I dunno something ~magical~ needs to happen in order to make it hatch, and the movie is about figuring out how to do that. Or the movie is about that happening and seeing how Toothless bonds with this young dragon he has effectively adopted. There are so many ways they could have given us real insight into Toothless and what he's learned through his relationship with Hiccup and how he pays that forward with the next generation of his species but instead we get the girlfriend plot, which just sounds like a lot of tired dudebro jokes waiting to happen.



If it was humans then there might be a bigger reason for a concern because there's about zero, next to nothing reputation for LGBT + folk like me ( I'm Bisexual ) in animated movies, expect if you count "gay coded " Disney villains, and maybe Shang from Mulan. But it's a fantasy creature, who are not real. Not saying that it's weird or strange if the dragons were to be gay, just that if it was humans, THEN it would be a reason to be annoyed, but it's dragon's, it would be like getting riled up because a banshee ghost is having a heterosexual romance, they don't exist. They're fantasy creatures. If it was another Disney human romance movie with another heterosexual love story, then okay, but dragons ?!
Because this perspective limits the argument for representation needlessly and fundamentally misrepresents how fiction effectively functions: it captures and expands our imaginations of what is possible by connecting us to characters (or sometimes other narrative assets, but in this case characters) within the work and telling us stories that make them feel relatable. The key to a fictionalized creature like Toothless is that we're meant to relate to him on some level: we know he isn't human, but he embodies all of the human qualities we look for in a protagonist, and if your argument is that we should only anticipate literally human characters to display a range of sexuality while non-human characters are expected to express a humanistic nature up to but not including sexual diversity, then you're missing the point of representation altogether.

Toothless doesn't seem to achieve the same level of intelligence of a human being, he seems to copy the behaviours of a bird looking to impress a mate, like a peacock. Some birds can be homosexual, but this movie's romance subplot is about last of race.
The point is that Toothless is symbolically human in nature and his level of intelligence reflects that, and we as the audience are meant to understand that. And if the movie's romance subplot is about the last of the species, how about Toothless finds another male dragon with a couple of hatchlings and helps raise them with their biological father? Again, the presumption is that the only way for this to work is within a heterosexual framework, which is intrinsically homophobic.

Another straight romantic story in animation media ? Sure, that's a huge reason to be frustrated, but dragons ? That's the hill you want to die on ??
Why do people say this like it means anything. Nobody's dying on any hill, just engaging with the media they consume critically and expressing their honest reaction rather than accepting every trope at face value. If the film and its story work for you, great. More power to you. That doesn't mean every other perspective is irrational or unfounded.
 

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Isn't it a bit too early to say the female dragon is there just to be Toothlesess love interest? She could have her own arc, agency and development.
 

alexis.anagram

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Isn't it a bit too early to say the female dragon is there just to be Toothlesess love interest? She could have her own arc, agency and development.
That's true, but right now all we have to go off of is the trailer, and it frames everything as it pertains to Toothless. The way her introduction is phrased is, "Toothless has a girlfriend!" No discussion of her feelings or even her story, the presumption is a female dragon exists so she will naturally be into Toothless and they're gonna make baby dragons. In that sense, it isn't premature, that's the statement the trailer makes.
 

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And that premise is a large part of the reason I have a problem with it, in that it just isn't interesting or inspired. The female dragon is seemingly being introduced in order to fill the need for a plot device within Toothless' story rather than carrying her own weight within the narrative, which isn't a persuasive reason to introduce a new character.
That's fair !

It brushes up against some of the reasons I really enjoy the first film and its breakdown of masculine tropes by standardizing Toothless' character arc: of course there's a female dragon somewhere out there for him to mate with, he's a male and a main character, what else should the audience expect. Never mind some of the more effective and moving routes they could have taken; off the top of my head, they could have had Toothless discover an unhatched egg which is determined to be of his kind, but it needs to be given care or I dunno something ~magical~ needs to happen in order to make it hatch, and the movie is about figuring out how to do that. Or the movie is about that happening and seeing how Toothless bonds with this young dragon he has effectively adopted.
An adoption story would of been adorable and would of been so cute.


Because this perspective limits the argument for representation needlessly and fundamentally misrepresents how fiction effectively functions: it captures and expands our imaginations of what is possible by connecting us to characters (or sometimes other narrative assets, but in this case characters) within the work and telling us stories that make them feel relatable. The key to a fictionalized creature like Toothless is that we're meant to relate to him on some level: we know he isn't human, but he embodies all of the human qualities we look for in a protagonist, and if your argument is that we should only anticipate literally human characters to display a range of sexuality while non-human characters are expected to express a humanistic nature up to but not including sexual diversity, then you're missing the point of representation altogether.
Got to disagree here, because I've yet to see somebody relate to a fictional dragon, expect maybe when their black cat reminds them of the fictional creature. It's very hard to relate to a fictional dragon as a human being.



The point is that Toothless is symbolically human in nature and his level of intelligence reflects that
Again, disagree. The dragon is more like a cute black cat or a bird looking to mate. Even more so when Black Cats have been killed because they have been assumed to be evil and cursed and "witches in disguise " for many years. Killed because they could be "dangerous ". Sound familiar ? Even today, black cats are harmed and abused during the Halloween period.

Again, the presumption is that the only way for this to work is within a heterosexual framework, which is intrinsically homophobic.
There's nothing wrong with creating a story that's about a het dragons looking to mate to save their race. Animals need to mate in order to save a race. It's real life. Nothing homophobic about it, it's reality. Also LGBT + people might of worked on this movie and wanted this story for whatever reason- they might of found the idea cute. They might of liked this idea. Also, Bi people exist. Who knows, maybe the dragon is bi ? Dreamworks loves to create many sequels, it's possible that he could actually find a male partner in the future. Maybe they just don't work out, maybe she dies. I mean, isn't there a sixth Shrek movie coming out soon ? And don't they want to make another Panda movie ? How To Train Your Dragon 4, 5, 6 etc is very possible knowing this animation company.

Why do people say this like it means anything. Nobody's dying on any hill
It's a saying.
 

alexis.anagram

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Got to disagree here, because I've yet to see somebody relate to a fictional dragon, expect maybe when their black cat reminds them of the fictional creature. It's very hard to relate to a fictional dragon as a human being.
You haven't been around the Internet enough let me tell you
Again, it's not that we're supposed to see him as human, we're just supposed to see human qualities in him. Or the film imbues him with human qualities regardless of what we're supposed to see. Whichever.

Again, disagree. The dragon is more like a cute black cat or a bird looking to mate. Even more so when Black Cats have been killed because they have been assumed to be evil and cursed and "witches in disguise " for many years. Killed because they could be "dangerous ". Sound familiar ? Even today, black cats are harmed and abused during the Halloween period.
Yeah but the whole lesson of the first movie is that dragons are not evil and aggro and driven by instinct, they're exceptionally intelligent creatures with their own complex society and ecosystems and which have the ability to show compassion and form bonds with people in which they are equals.

There's nothing wrong with creating a story that's about a het dragons looking to mate to save their race.
There's nothing inherently right about it either.

Animals need to mate in order to save a race. It's real life.
OK, so Toothless and this dragon mate. Then what? They have some hatchlings and those hatchlings...mate with each other? Is dragon inbreeding not a problem? This isn't real life, it's fantasy. Made up rules. Anything's possible. Why argue for more limitations.

Nothing homophobic about it, it's reality. Also LGBT + people might of worked on this movie and wanted this story for whatever reason- they might of found the idea cute. They might of liked this idea.
Sure. There might have also been LGBTQ people working on this movie who have internalized a lifetime of being told they're wrong to seek representation in movies about fantasy dragons because heterosexual relationships are just more "real" and natural. See where I'm going with this?

Realistically, though, queer dragon romance was never even considered. For exactly this reason. Of course all dragons are heterosexual, that's normal. Only human people get to be kinky and weird, because that's what queerness is, a kink. Not something that occurs naturally in nature, ever. lol.

Also, Bi people exist. Who knows, maybe the dragon is bi ? Dreamworks loves to create many sequels, it's possible that he could actually find a male partner in the future.
OK, if that happens I'll be like, cool, they decided to portray a bisexual romance and I approve. That's not what's happening here so it's irrelevant. They also might never make a movie like that. I'm going to bet on the latter.

Maybe they just don't work out, maybe she dies.
Dragon fridging usually follows dragon sexing. Toothless angst ensues.

I mean, isn't there a sixth Shrek movie coming out soon ? And don't they want to make another Panda movie ? How To Train Your Dragon 4, 5, 6 etc is very possible knowing this animation company.
Now that John Lasseter is out of the picture all the animation studios smell blood. Time to reboot the most popular franchises! Still no representation though what you thought ogres could be trans? That's not realistic bro.

It's a saying.
Which is specifically intended to imply that the person you're talking to is arguing against common sense and refuses to see reason. Actually I might hope it describes me, diddly centrism.
 

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You haven't been around the Internet enough let me tell you
Where do you hang out ? Deviantart ? Because like....


Again, it's not that we're supposed to see him as human, we're just supposed to see human qualities in him. Yeah but the whole lesson of the first movie is that dragons are not evil and aggro and driven by instinct, they're exceptionally intelligent creatures with their own complex society and ecosystems and which have the ability to show compassion and form bonds with people in which they are equals.
I feel like we are never going to understand each other on this. You believe that we are supposed to see human qualities within the dragon, I don't. Sorry just don't want this to go in rounds and we both tire and stress each other out.

OK, so Toothless and this dragon mate. Then what? They have some hatchlings and those hatchlings...mate with each other? Is dragon inbreeding not a problem? This isn't real life, it's fantasy. Made up rules. Anything's possible. Why argue for more limitations.
??????



Yes a movie about say, two cis male dragons that become pregnant would be really bizarre. Yes, it's fantasy, but fantasy needs to make somewhat sense as well. Is that what you are getting at ? Otherwise the whole movie would be a MESS. Fantasy doesn't mean that you can just do whatever what you completely want. There needs to be at least some balance.

Sure. There might have also been LGBTQ people working on this movie who have internalized a lifetime of being told they're wrong to seek representation in movies about fantasy dragons because heterosexual relationships are just more "real" and natural. See where I'm going with this?
I think you are confused. Nobody is saying that. People are saying that a male and a female needing to breed to save a race is normal. Nobody is saying that a LGBT+ relationship is unreal and natural. You are putting words in people's mouths.

For exactly this reason. Of course all dragons are heterosexual, that's normal. Only human people get to be kinky and weird, because that's what queerness is, a kink.
You are saying this. Nobody else. You are the only one saying this.


Dragon fridging usually follows dragon sexing. Toothless angst ensues.
Now that John Lasseter is out of the picture all the animation studios smell blood. Time to reboot the most popular franchises! Still no representation though what you thought ogres could be trans? That's not realistic bro.
What ????

Why do you think that workers at Dreamworks are a bunch of "dudebros " just because Het Dragons is coming out ?
 

Zettaflare

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To be fair there has been some LGBT representation in the past films. Gobber was confirmed to be gay.
 

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alexis.anagram said:
And that premise is a large part of the reason I have a problem with it, in that it just isn't interesting or inspired. The female dragon is seemingly being introduced in order to fill the need for a plot device within Toothless' story rather than carrying her own weight within the narrative, which isn't a persuasive reason to introduce a new character. It brushes up against some of the reasons I really enjoy the first film and its breakdown of masculine tropes by standardizing Toothless' character arc: of course there's a female dragon somewhere out there for him to mate with, he's a male and a main character, what else should the audience expect. Never mind some of the more effective and moving routes they could have taken; off the top of my head, they could have had Toothless discover an unhatched egg which is determined to be of his kind, but it needs to be given care or I dunno something ~magical~ needs to happen in order to make it hatch, and the movie is about figuring out how to do that. Or the movie is about that happening and seeing how Toothless bonds with this young dragon he has effectively adopted. There are so many ways they could have given us real insight into Toothless and what he's learned through his relationship with Hiccup and how he pays that forward with the next generation of his species but instead we get the girlfriend plot, which just sounds like a lot of tired dudebro jokes waiting to happen.
I agree with this. The mating plot is something you'd expect from lesser, trashier films, like Rio or the Ice Age franchise. HTTYD always seemed to be a step above those kinds of regressive, cliched storylines. Everything gets watered down after multiple sequels, I guess.
 
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