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How are you feeling about the future of KH?



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Katsagu

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So with the completion of UX, joined with Re:Mind and MoM. It is fair to say we have a good base to figure out some of the stuff that will be happening going forward.

The question now would be: do you like the direction the series is taking? And what are your hopes based on what we know?

For me, I'm extremelly excited to just get away from the organization and Xehanort honestly. I love the feeling of "new" the future presents, from the idea of Quadratum to having the foretellers back, with their colorfull designs. (a farcry from the dark cloaks. Thank. God.)

I am someone that enjoyed KH3, but I'm not going to pretend I don't understand the problems with it, especially in the story department. And I hope that going forward, Nomura and others can find a way to focus the story again. I never want to go over a scene like this one again:


This scene is insanity to me. The mental gymnastics even the characters have to do to explain how every bad guy is there baffles me. Please please PLEASE. Simplify this type of thing. I'm here for strange out of the box stuff, but when you need to make a scene like this that is only there to explain shit and afterwards, it still doesn't make that much sense or you have to do a double take every other sentence, you've clearly gone to far.

But my biggest hope is that Disney and FF are intertwined better into the story. I'd love to have more scenes like the hollow bastion fight in KH2 and the tron world also from KH2.

I like to be optimistic, but I'm honestly not sure nomura and gang can satisfy my hopes when it comes to the story, but I'm willing to wait and see. I'm hopeful but also scared of what awaits us in the next game, I feel we're at a point where there's a lot of potential to deal with series problems and not fall back again into the same problems from before.
 

AegisXIII

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I was a bit skeptical at first after KH3. I felt like we were still missing some important information.
For example, I thought that the story made no sense because I didn't understand it. But after a while I realized that we do not get it yet because it is gonna be reveal later.
With the ending of Remind, MoM and UX, I have to admit that I am feeling a bit more engaged than I was after the end of KH3. The ending of UX showed me that they really have a long story planned and they are not making it up along the way like it used to be.

My only complaint is that I still find it very disjoint with very questionable choices. Since this story rely heavily on a full understanding all the concepts of past titles, I really think they need to polish the past titles a bit more: remake days/re:coded/Ux properly. Maybe fuse some titles together.

But overall, the future is bright. It just need a bit more polish to get brighter.
 

AegisXIII

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I like to be optimistic, but I'm honestly not sure nomura and gang can satisfy my hopes when it comes to the story, but I'm willing to wait and see. I'm hopeful but also scared of what awaits us in the next game, I feel we're at a point where there's a lot of potential to deal with series problems and not fall back again into the same problems from before.
I agree with what you said. KH is often seen as having a lot of potential but a lack of delivery.

I think this feeling comes from 2 things:
1. we were waiting KH3 as the big conclusion of a narrative arc, while it was just another good entry
2. Ux has been teasing us a future that never came and wasn't exploited in KH3.

What they now need to do is stop teasing the future and actually deal with this setup they carefully put in place. They need to deliver. But I am pretty sure they will. Now that KH3 has been a huge financial hit, they have green lights to go in the directions they want.
 

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Honestly, I'm feeling pretty excited about the future myself. I am especially hyped about the Verum Rex storyline. Final Fantasy XV is one of my top-favorite FF games, and I was always slighted disappointed that we didn't get to see what the full concept of Versus XIII would have been. Now, we can at least see it live on in some form anyway. I also am really enjoying the MoM and Foretellers setup as well. Coupled with the fact that Disney is now being less restrictive with their IP, I think the future of KH is looking good so far. Of course, I am keeping my expectations in check, as it is Nomura we're talking about. That being said, the writing is looking to be a but smoother than the Xehanort Arc, so I am willing to give him a chance.
 

darknessofheart

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I think Nomura having more of the long-term story planned out (hopefully) will help immensely.

The main problem I had with KH3 is that there was so much story baggage that it made it impossible for that game to neatly tie up everything. It wasn't until MOM's release that I felt proper closure to the first arc. Union X's conclusion further added to it and Dark Road will put a nice bow on it.

Two mobile games, a massive DLC, and a rhythm game is what it took. I know a lot of that is on me for expecting KH3 to answer everything, but we honestly shouldn't have the lore segmented across so many titles.

I hope phase 2 is much more compact with not nearly as many games and is more grounded in its themes. I do have high hopes for that. I made a thread about how the series seems to really be diving into the concept of death and how it impacts the characters. MoM, Luxu, and Xehanort all just seem like people broken by massive loss. More relatable and grounded character motives despite the insane situations and lore. And these darknesses are ramping up to be really disturbing antagonists.

The aspect I always enjoyed about the KH series is that it's not necessarily about good vs. evil, but the broken vs. the innocence of childhood. The main villains are just broken people who lost everything and are going against a group of kids who still have the innocence of their childhoods sustaining themselves as they get older despite their own losses. I want more of this explored in phase 2. I don't want MoM to simply be a psycho, but exactly who we saw in the finale of Union X. Him and Luxu I can't wait to see more of and how they interact with the main heroes.

Nomura also seems in touch with the community. It's a coin flip how much he uses that to adjust how he writes the games, but I think phase 2 can be much better than a good portion of phase 1 so long as it's more planned out, concise, and ditches some of its baggage.
 
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AegisXIII

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The main problem I had with KH3 is that there was so much story baggage that it made it impossible for that game to neatly tie up everything. It wasn't until MOM's release that I felt proper closure to the first arc. Union X's conclusion further added to it and Dark Road will put a nice bow on it.
I felt the same. I really would have liked for the story segment of Melody of Memory to be part of ReMind for a more unified experience.
 

Katsagu

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Honestly, I'm feeling pretty excited about the future myself. I am especially hyped about the Verum Rex storyline. Final Fantasy XV is one of my top-favorite FF games, and I was always slighted disappointed that we didn't get to see what the full concept of Versus XIII would have been. Now, we can at least see it live on in some form anyway. I also am really enjoying the MoM and Foretellers setup as well. Coupled with the fact that Disney is now being less restrictive with their IP, I think the future of KH is looking good so far. Of course, I am keeping my expectations in check, as it is Nomura we're talking about. That being said, the writing is looking to be a but smoother than the Xehanort Arc, so I am willing to give him a chance.
I really hope that disney wanting to open their IP's creatively means great things to KH. I'm honestly totally done with movie retellings, that can't keep on going. I really hope KH has a series doesn't end up being stuck in that because "every other game was like that".

I agree with what you said. KH is often seen as having a lot of potential but a lack of delivery.

I think this feeling comes from 2 things:
1. we were waiting KH3 as the big conclusion of a narrative arc, while it was just another good entry
2. Ux has been teasing us a future that never came and wasn't exploited in KH3.

What they now need to do is stop teasing the future and actually deal with this setup they carefully put in place. They need to deliver. But I am pretty sure they will. Now that KH3 has been a huge financial hit, they have green lights to go in the directions they want.
I think the problem is that KH is in a perpetual state of needing to create new story developments so the series can keep going. I mean, KH3 pretty much completed the xehanort stuff pretty well. Everything surrounding that story is done, that's why I can hope for it to stay in the past and for us to not revisit the org and xehanort again. But afterward, it needed to add on stuff for the next games (sora dissapearing and Yozora), leaving the game open ended and robbing it of it's finality.

And in my mind this isn't a problem, I like it and keeps me invested in the series, there's very little like it in videogames as a whole.
 

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I think the problem is that KH is in a perpetual state of needing to create new story developments so the series can keep going. I mean, KH3 pretty much completed the xehanort stuff pretty well. Everything surrounding that story is done, that's why I can hope for it to stay in the past and for us to not revisit the org and xehanort again. But afterward, it needed to add on stuff for the next games (sora dissapearing and Yozora), leaving the game open ended and robbing it of it's finality.

And in my mind this isn't a problem, I like it and keeps me invested in the series, there's very little like it in videogames as a whole.
I don't remember in which interview it was, but nomura clearly mentioned that he always thinks two titles in advance when he "writes" a story.
KH1 teases KH2
Com teases KH2
KH2 teases BBS
days teases BBS
coded teases DDD
DDD teases 3
X teases what comes after 3.
And obviously 3 teases the entirety of phase 2.

And it won't stop. But in a sense, maybe this frustration is what kept us engaged for so long.

To be honest, I don't know which characters we won't be seeing ever again after KH3. I am pretty sure anyone can come back. Old man xehanort is maybe gone, but his younger self might still appear a lot.
 

darknessofheart

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I just hope they don't suddenly give Xehanort some crazy redemption arc. He was a bad guy. Not pure evil: he was born from tragedy and there may have been other forces at work like darkness, but he still made his own decisions to destroy countless lives and cause over a decades worth of destruction.

Nomura seems keen on keeping this image in tact since his last chronological appearances in Remind and MoM make it clear that the main characters do not forgive him. I'm fine with Dark Road adding more context into his descent, and actually looking forward to it, but wouldn't want much beyond that aside from an occasional reference and maybe a flashback here and there in the future.
 

AegisXIII

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I just hope they don't suddenly give Xehanort some crazy redemption arc. He was a bad guy. Not pure evil: he was born from tragedy and there may have been other forces at work like darkness, but he still made his own decisions to destroy countless lives and cause over a decades worth of destruction.

Nomura seems keen on keeping this image in tact since his last chronological appearances in Remind and MoM make it clear that the main characters do not forgive him. I'm fine with Dark Road adding more context into his descent, and actually looking forward to it, but wouldn't want much beyond that aside from an occasional reference and maybe a flashback here and there in the future.
Old man Xehanort did terrible actions. But I wouldn't mind fighting alongside his younger self before he made all his bad decisions. That wouldn't be a redemption arc since it would be before he became the villain. His speech with the master of master in remind was really convincing. He saw how flawed the world was and couldn't accept it. Xehanort intentions were pure but the path he chose made him the villain.
 

SweetYetSalty

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How am I feeling about the future of KH right now? Mostly the same after KH3. I guess I'll be the villain here, Union X did not increase my excitement for the series future that much. Compared to what ReMind did for me, I found this a small step backwards if anything. Don't get me wrong, Union X was a overall nice prequel story, but I didn't find it did anything new that a BBS, DDD, or KH3 didn't already do. It feels like we were going to try something a little different with how ReMind and even MoM set things up, but now we're just buckled down on the same old stuff the series has had since 2010. 13 Darkness's, 7 light crowns, vessels to hold darkness, time travelers from the past coming into the present because of some ancient plan set in motion before the heroes were even born, body snatching. This is still Xehanort saga writing. Yes, it seems to be much better planned out this time, but it's still the same thing the series has always done.

I agree about that scene posted above about the Organization over explaining their plans. It exist because certain members got badly explained in base game like Xion and Terranort, and even conflicts with base KH3 dialogue. But is it really different from all the expositions with Darkness, Master of Masters, Luxu, data worlds, real worlds, book of prophecies, black boxes, ark time travel, mediums needed, etc that we've been getting? And in true KH fashion it leaves you with more questions then answers in a "to be continued" kind of way. I'm not saying it's bad, I love this series. But it's not changing the formula the way some think it is.

With all that said, the elements of the future I am excited for is Verum Rex with Yozora, Luxord, and Nameless Star Girl. Kairi-Riku-Sora adventure, Ephemer's Scala, Subject X, and Dream Eaters.

But overall I'm waiting for the 2022 announcement of the next big game before I get too deep into phase 2 excitement.
 
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Zettaflare

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The same I guess? While the ending of Union X gave us a lot to speculate about my feelings concerning the future of Phase 2 haven't changed at all. I'm still invested in the story right now due to hooks like Yozora, Luxord, and Quadratum
 

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The Disney elements somehow seem even less relevant than they already do. It's crazy what an afterthought the main selling point of this series is in it's direction.
 

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I felt the same. I really would have liked for the story segment of Melody of Memory to be part of ReMind for a more unified experience.
There's always the compilation edition that boxes everything together: KH3, R:M, MoM. I'm fairly confident all that content could fit on a single disc, especially for the newer generation of consoles.
So with the completion of UX, joined with Re:Mind and MoM. It is fair to say we have a good base to figure out some of the stuff that will be happening going forward.

The question now would be: do you like the direction the series is taking? And what are your hopes based on what we know?
I want to be excited, but I'm too much of a veteran of the series to let my expectations get too high. Would I like to play the next "main" game in the series? I guess it depends on what it has to offer.

As for my hopes, well, I guess it's good to know that Nomura and the developers are open to feedback from the fanbase. Of course, the fact that they're more than willing to use this to sell their merchandise such as prominently marketing MoM as Kairi's game only to shove her aside until the final portion of the game means BUYER BEWARE.
I am someone that enjoyed KH3, but I'm not going to pretend I don't understand the problems with it, especially in the story department. And I hope that going forward, Nomura and others can find a way to focus the story again. I never want to go over a scene like this one again:


This scene is insanity to me. The mental gymnastics even the characters have to do to explain how every bad guy is there baffles me. Please please PLEASE. Simplify this type of thing. I'm here for strange out of the box stuff, but when you need to make a scene like this that is only there to explain shit and afterwards, it still doesn't make that much sense or you have to do a double take every other sentence, you've clearly gone to far.
Remember how Axel appears in CoM as an antagonist and then dies in KH2, only for 3D to bring "Axel" back as Lea and in KH3 for "Lea" to change his name back to "Axel" all so Nomura can bring the character back? Talk about mental gymnastics... So will we REALLY be getting away from the characters from DSS? I'm sure they'll still appear at some point because they're too well-known to just leave behind. Axel was always more popular than Lea, so Nomura just decided to bring Lea back and change his name to Axel in KH3. I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens in Phase 2 for other DSS characters.
 
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Katsagu

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I agree about that scene posted above about the Organization over explaining their plans. It exist because certain members got badly explained in base game like Xion and Terranort, and even conflicts with base KH3 dialogue. But is it really different from all the expositions with Darkness, Master of Masters, Luxu, data worlds, real worlds, book of prophecies, black boxes, ark time travel, mediums needed, etc that we've been getting? And in true KH fashion it leaves you with more questions then answers in a "to be continued" kind of way. I'm not saying it's bad, I love this series. But it's not changing the formula the way some think it is.
That's the thing, I'm not saying it was different with UX's story or that it changed the formula. What I'm saying is that, this is like the best moment to actually fix those things. Just because the past contains all of those things (data worlds, ark time travel, etc) doesn't mean they have to cross over to what will happen afterwards. What happens afterwards can be to some point self contained.

Remember how Axel appears in CoM as an antagonist and then dies in KH2, only for 3D to bring "Axel" back as Lea and in KH3 for "Lea" to change his name back to "Axel" all so Nomura can bring the character back? Talk about mental gymnastics... So will we REALLY be getting away from the characters from DSS? I'm sure they'll still appear at some point because they're too well-known to just leave behind. Axel was always more popular than Lea, so Nomura just decided to bring Lea back and change his name to Axel in KH3. I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens in Phase 2 for other DSS characters.
Yup I feel there are a lot of stuff that gets changed/retconned because it is "cool", your axel example is pretty great. In DDD -> KH3 the ammount of stuff that had to happen just for "hey guys, every bad guy from KH's story is here for one big final showdown!" was absolutely crazy, we have nobodies turning into human only to be turned again to nobodies so they can be there, we have past selfs travelling into the present only for their hearts to be placed in replicas and whatever and then they go back to their time. Like is any of this really necessary just so we can have the 3 nort fight at the end of KH3? No.

And that's my point. I hope we don't have to go to such extreme lenghts ever again to have stuff happen in KH.One example would be that I hope Sora can come back just because he can be saved from wherever he ended up (no need for replicas, hearts inside hearts, time travel, power of awakening shenanigans).
 

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As long as Disney doesn't make things harder, I'm expecting great things.

- Xehanort saga is done and we have the chance to start anew. I love everything so far about Yozora and Verum Rex and I'm curious to see how everything will unfold.

- There was a restructuring in Square Enix and their management seems to be better. They also may not lose any more years of development because of engine problems. Now they know how to use UE4 and when they change to UE5, they can have support from Epic Games team.

- Besides the possibilities that PS5 and UE5 offer, KH3 Remind gameplay was incredible which makes me hopeful for the next big title coming.

- After KH3 they are aware how high fan's expectations are for numbered/big titles.
 
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Elysium

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Sort of somewhere in the middle. I'm excited about the KH series more than I have been in quite a long time--the huge worlds in both 3D and 3, as well as 3's advances in graphics, make me so excited by the possibilities for Disney films that haven't been used before as well as many that already have. I also think the story has the chance of being improved now they've discarded the baggage of the Dark Seeker Saga. The fact that the next game looks to be another Riku-Sora dual scenario like 3D has me hyped. And a lot of signs with the Disney company give me hope there will be much less restraint on their properties as well. There's even a (very) slim shot the FF characters might be returned to their proper place in this series after the fandom uproar at 3's release.

Most of my reservations are simply hypotheticals of what could happen, like non-Disney properties eating up half or 3/4 of the world roster (the number of which is much lower now than it was back then), the lack of hand-drawn films being used, etc. It's possible those things won't be the reality. Here's hoping. I think the thing I'm probably the most ugh about is how the lost FFXV story is being re-purposed in KH. Maybe that could turn out okay for me, too, if it means my fav, Riku, ends up getting a bigger role because of it.
 

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Honestly, I'm pretty chill about it? BBS is still my favorite game because of how fresh it was as well as all the new plots and characters. UX managed to bring back some of that excitement, which DR blasted to new levels (even if the new characters have pretty bland designs).

I will be honest here and say that I don't really care much for Sora and Co. post 3 and will probably go "mehhh" for new stuff surrounding them since the main issues that KH has a whole is connected to those characters and their plot (which is, to say, all of the baggage left behind from 12 games). I would love to see more done with the BBS trio specifically to fleshen their personalities more, but ehh.

The Yozora/Versus stuff and whatever else they do during the Scala time, though? Count me in. I love seeing a fresh take on the KH formula, even if it's as cheap as just replacing the Sorafaces.
 

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I'm a bit mixed. There's a lot of things I don't really like (redeeming too many villains in weird ways, like Vexen and what they seem to be trying to do with Xehanort)

Nomura and other writers, I'm cool with a bad guy who is bad. Even if his intentions are "good", they can stay bad you know? Xehanort screwed up so many peoples lives, I wouldn't have minded in he was legit struck down in the end you know? I'm just saying.

I'm also still worried about how convoluted things get for seemingly no reason. I'm not asking for things to be straight forward, and I've long accepted that KH is more "soft magic" than "hard magic".

I hope we get more "This machine will send you to the future one way without your memories at random" and less "I'm Young Xehanort and I can time travel whenever I feel like it barely maintaining the rules I introduced" stuff. Despite how much I hated how KHUX distributed its story content, I really appreciated how it simplified old KH concepts (even if it introduced bothersome ones too)
 

the red monster

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UX ending made me extremely hyped for what's to come. i really like the master of masters and foretellers stuff, even more than verum rex.
 
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