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Honest opinion, Power scaling isn’t as bad as the fans say



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Keyblade07

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Read all first please!

1) Riku vs young xehanort

Story wise: Both were fine After fight

Fans: Riku beat Young xehanort

Facts: both Showed no sign of defeat, the fight ended and young xehanort returned to his chair cause master xehanort body was completed


2) Sora vs Terra/Lingering Will

Story wise: both were standing no sign of defeat on any of them

Fans: Sora beat Terra/lingering will

Facts: he stopped cause he sensed ventus heart and that Sora isn’t xehanort, plus lingering will/Terra journal stated his better keyblade wielder then Sora


3) Aqua vs Terranort

Story wise fight: Terranort showed sign of defeat

Fans: Aqua soloed Terranort

Facts: Terranort fighting two battles at the same time, basically 2vs1 Terra fighting on the inside trying to regain control and aqua on the outside dealing the damage. Then kh3 proved how strong terranort is by showing he is no longer restrained by terra anymore and can go all out


4) Terra vs xehanort

Story wise: Terra wins

Fans: Xehanort is weaker then xemnas

Facts: xemnas is not stronger, xehanort (being old also effects him) only lost cause he was holding back cause he didn’t want to hurt his vessel, he only wanted to unleash terra’s darkness when in fact serious xehanort bodied all 3 TAV trio with one hand behind his back


5) Sora vs Xehanort

Story wise: Sora with his power of friendship along with his 2 allies Donald and Goody beat the villain

Fans: xehanort is overrated he lost to Sora, Sora should be number 1 strongest etc

Facts: Good always beats evil, Sora didn’t win cause he is stronger or better keyblade wielder, the game is half Disney so it’s all about power of friendship, plus how many times Sora said I’m weak without my friends yea he maybe strong but one on one with xehanort? That’s still debatable


6) Aqua vs vanitas and the demon tower (kh3)

Story wise: Aqua loses

Fans: Pathetic they nerfed Aqua she lost in every fight she was in...

Facts: well No they didn’t nerf her it was stated she was weakened after the rescue so yea it was explained why she looked weak before the final fight, also vanitas only won cause he never fights fairly to begin with... and important facts you gotta remember that vanitas always put up an equal fight with aqua and making her barely stand in her feet so not surprising he put a work on her, she may be stronger then him but that is only by a tiny merging


7) Terra vs Eraqus, vanitas, Terranort

Story wise: terra beats eraqus “a Keyblade master” fights Xehanort and vanitas at the same time, beat terranort solo

Fans: Terra is weaker then Aqua (well I can’t help but facepalm in this part)

Facts: well if me stating facts about character makes you think I’m a fanboy then sure keep telling yourself that cause all I’m doing is stating facts here and the fact is aqua showed no feat whatsoever that put her above terra other then her having strong heart like Sora, not saying terra will demolish her but I won’t rank her above him either until proven otherwise at least


8) Sora vs saix (kh3)

Story wise: saix has the upper hand

Fans: Saix beating Sora? The powers scales in this game is bad...

Arguably: altho this one I have no proof for and can somewhat agree that it’s bad power scale that Sora lost but my only explanation here is that you gotta remember when saix enters his berserk form you really can’t touch him whatsoever, your only option to beat him is take his weapon and use it against him, Roxas for some reason can break his berserk form without using his weapon so yea this the only fight I can say is terrible and one of the few unexplainable power scale


9) riku and mickey

Story wise: riku and Mickey struggling with heartless demon tide

Fans: those two are weak... and they call them keyblade masters


arguably: I mean didn’t Mickey say to riku that the heartless they are gonna face will be stronger? and the lower they go the stronger the heartless becomes? Seeing as Mickey before becoming master put up an equal fight with aqua against the demon tide back in 2.0 suggest what I’m saying is “arguably” probably correct



I have kept this inside me for a while now... (plus I think saying I’m leaving this early was bad move of me) So you see the problem here isn’t kingdom hearts 3 it’s the fans that can’t tell who is stronger then who, sorry to say that but if you want to hate me go ahead I have been listening to these fans complain for year now about power scale every since kh3 came out and can’t help it but let it out and admit the Truth that they have been wrong about certain characters strength wise


I will be less active and maybe completed inactive it depends but at least I want you guys to know this time.
 
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GibbsJ

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just another problem with this fanbase, they hold on to misconceptions and surface level conclusions for so long that they become truth despite all the evidence to contradict them. I'd say you should blame it on the developers but these things are a much easier to figure out when unexplained lore.
 

Noivern

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All I can say is that if the fans really cared as much as you are implying about power levels maybe we would have more interesting things to talk about instead of "Who Is the Killer part 3: eletric bangaloo" or "Maybe the MoM is secretly Nomura and he is reuniting Soras from different worldlines to get back at Square for taking Versus XIII from him".

Seriously, though, no one really cares if x is stronger than y because powerlevels in jrpg are equal to what plot the writers need to push at the moment. When people complain about the treatment the Guardians got in 3 is mostly because the writing behind the way they were handling was bad, simple as that. It's the whole reason we are getting a free update alongside Re:Mind. To attempt a fix for the whole mess that was the Graveyard sequence.

As for why a lot of people treated you like a troll, is mostly because all you did was create a bunch of topics was argue that Terra is the strongest character in KH. Not the best written, nor the most interesting. Just strongest. Because powerlevels extremely relevant in a game where we had a dramatic sequence where Donald Duck almost died casting Mega Flare to save a party of 7 Keyblade users.
 

disney233

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All I can say is that if the fans really cared as much as you are implying about power levels maybe we would have more interesting things to talk about instead of "Who Is the Killer part 3: eletric bangaloo" or "Maybe the MoM is secretly Nomura and he is reuniting Soras from different worldlines to get back at Square for taking Versus XIII from him".

Seriously, though, no one really cares if x is stronger than y because powerlevels in jrpg are equal to what plot the writers need to push at the moment. When people complain about the treatment the Guardians got in 3 is mostly because the writing behind the way they were handling was bad, simple as that. It's the whole reason we are getting a free update alongside Re:Mind. To attempt a fix for the whole mess that was the Graveyard sequence.

As for why a lot of people treated you like a troll, is mostly because all you did was create a bunch of topics was argue that Terra is the strongest character in KH. Not the best written, nor the most interesting. Just strongest. Because powerlevels extremely relevant in a game where we had a dramatic sequence where Donald Duck almost died casting Mega Flare to save a party of 7 Keyblade users.
Sora can crap out an entire amusement park out of his ass. Yeah....power levels shouldn't really matter, especially in 3 unless the plot demands it.
 

ZeVaine

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The universe is set up in such a way that "power" and "victory" in many situations isn't so directly reliant on a theoretical power level of each character; instead it's dependent on a number of other factors.

This is why the impression of power scaling being inconsistent is so prevailing - the universe keeps the context of getting power purposefully vague. Certain characters who should seem to be weak can suddenly acquire powers no one knew before, and that's NOT unusual.

Believing in oneself, connecting hearts, light, dark, etc. All these things can be used at any point to make almost any character as strong or as weak as the narrative requires/seems to hint at. It's completely subjective if that's something you like or don't like (I don't mind it, because you can still make understandable and dramatically satisfying moments within this power structure).

But it is what it is.
 

Mirby

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If anything, the power scale in this series isn't based on physical strength but strength of heart. Hercules was struggling in KH2 until he dove into the River Styx to save Meg and proved how strong his heart was then. Donald's Zettaflare was so powerful because he wanted to save everyone and in that moment his heart's strength was incredibly powerful.

And Sora is so damn powerful because his heart is stupidly strong, but it also weakens due to outside influence causing ability reset (Namine's meddling led to his slumber in KH2 and Xehanort almost making him a vessel led to his relative weakness in KH3).

But even then it's still somewhat inconsistent.
 

Absent

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In all my years I’ve never heard power scaling being an major issue in Kingdom Hearts. It’s very shounen in its approach to handle powers in the sense that love and friendships prevail in almost all scenarios. As mentioned before, some characters’ abilities and skills are vague and inconsistent so ultimately we know that the plot is who determines the victor.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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I'm honestly not sure why this is so important to you when the strength of these characters is, and always has been determined by their role in the plot (regardless of what individual factors you choose to focus on, which obviously excludes gameplay despite this being in a j-rpg). Such a vague, fluid element of the series just doesn't seem worth debating to me.
In all my years I’ve never heard power scaling being an major issue in Kingdom Hearts. It’s very shounen in its approach to handle powers in the sense that love and friendships prevail in almost all scenarios. As mentioned before, some characters’ abilities and skills are vague and inconsistent so ultimately we know that the plot is who determines the victor.
Indeed, the power-scaling wasn't so much a problem for me as it was the writing, which is ultimately what determines the outcome of any given battle no matter what was pre established. Because ultimately, Nomura can make anyone ridiculously strong or weak with the flick of a pen, and it's how he goes about doing that which can garner a lot of criticism. You can make an in-universe excuse for why Aqua does nothing but fail across KH3, but if it doesn't work narratively, then it becomes an issue of writing and justification. One has to ask: Was this a good creative decision? More often than not, I find that answer being no, which is where the vast bulk of my own personal criticisms come from. That said, KH3's writing was definitely the cause of the criticism for said writing. Fans aren't just pulling their complaints out of nowhere. Anyway, that'll probably be my final word on the subject.
 

ZeVaine

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In all my years I’ve never heard power scaling being an major issue in Kingdom Hearts. It’s very shounen in its approach to handle powers in the sense that love and friendships prevail in almost all scenarios. As mentioned before, some characters’ abilities and skills are vague and inconsistent so ultimately we know that the plot is who determines the victor.

That's because I don't think it was noticeably inconsistent until you hit the end sequences of Kh3. You could still have a "I think x is stronger than x" in the series before that, because you didn't have TOO many situations that could throw your own powerlevel head-cannons in a loop. (I think BBS definitely started some of it with the Aqua and Terranort fight, at face value) Going into Kh3 with that mindset would've completely dumbfounded someone thinking in that way - and I was certainly confused at first until I re-thought about how the universe worked, and thought more about where different power comes from, and the context of fights.
 

Keyblade07

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All I can say is that if the fans really cared as much as you are implying about power levels maybe we would have more interesting things to talk about instead of "Who Is the Killer part 3: eletric bangaloo" or "Maybe the MoM is secretly Nomura and he is reuniting Soras from different worldlines to get back at Square for taking Versus XIII from him".

Seriously, though, no one really cares if x is stronger than y because powerlevels in jrpg are equal to what plot the writers need to push at the moment. When people complain about the treatment the Guardians got in 3 is mostly because the writing behind the way they were handling was bad, simple as that. It's the whole reason we are getting a free update alongside Re:Mind. To attempt a fix for the whole mess that was the Graveyard sequence.

As for why a lot of people treated you like a troll, is mostly because all you did was create a bunch of topics was argue that Terra is the strongest character in KH. Not the best written, nor the most interesting. Just strongest. Because powerlevels extremely relevant in a game where we had a dramatic sequence where Donald Duck almost died casting Mega Flare to save a party of 7 Keyblade users.
Im happy to see many people interested in this topic however about what you said, actually only one person called me troll and cause I left soo suddenly not cause of terra, he also came and apologized to me which I also apologized in return for leaving suddenly after joining recently, also I never said terra is the strongest it is obviously xehanort so what exactly are you trying to say? I feel like You’re the only one bothered by what I said cause I’m aware you’re an aqua fan so you wouldn’t like me saying Terra is stronger but based on feats from birth by sleep final battle then yea terra>aqua in my opinion terra showed more feats then aqua, only aqua fans put her Above the three bbs trio cause she got insanely popular to the point they overrate her character and power, Aqua is a Great character but her being a strong girl is probably the main reason (in my opinion) she is so popular and probably cause for the first time we got a useful female fighter even tho we already had Xion who is stronger then axel and only 2nd strongest next to xemnas and Roxas in the organization, however in kh3 I don’t know who is stronger anymore but yea that’s why one person called me a troll cause i suddenly left, also I don’t want to start arguing about who is stronger in my thread so I will be off now need some rest anyway thank you for commenting.
 
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Enturax

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THANK YOU for this topic; it really bothers me how ignorant fans are about the scaling!

Aqua vs Terranort

Story wise fight: Terranort showed sign of defeat

Fans: Aqua soloed Terranort

Facts: Terranort fighting two battles at the same time, basically 2vs1 Terra fighting on the inside trying to regain control and aqua on the outside dealing the damage. Then kh3 proved how strong terranort is by showing he is no longer restrained by terra anymore and can go all out

100% agree and I thought I'm the only person who has noticed this.

5) Sora vs Xehanort

Story wise: Sora with his power of friendship along with his 2 allies Donald and Goody beat the villain

Fans: xehanort is overrated he lost to Sora, Sora should be number 1 strongest etc

Facts: Good always beats evil, Sora didn’t win cause he is stronger or better keyblade wielder, the game is half Disney so it’s all about power of friendship, plus how many times Sora said I’m weak without my friends yea he maybe strong but one on one with xehanort? That’s still debatable

Actually, you're only partly right, here. While it's true Sora has ultimately defeated him with the pOwEr Of FrIeNdShIp, he still pushed Xehanort so far in the fight, through pure skill. Even though Xehanort was clearly stronger than Sora before he has even used X-Blade's power. Even though Sora was forced to fight mutliple replicas at the same time.
So, yup, it's still bs to me.
EDIT: and X-blade is supposed to be the ultimate weapon, so power of friendship defeating even THAT, makes it one hellofa "Suspension of Disbelief" moment. It also potentially destroys players' tension related to every future danger Sora will be forced to go through, because now we know for sure that Sora will be never able to lose. In a fair fight, at least.

On a side note: that fight was pretty meh from the gameplay/hype standpoint. And the Boss not having any gigantic form like in KH1 and 2? Shame on you, Nomura. Shame on you.



6) Aqua vs vanitas and the demon tower (kh3)

Story wise: Aqua loses

Fans: Pathetic they nerfed Aqua she lost in every fight she was in...

Facts: well No they didn’t nerf her it was stated she was weakened after the rescue so yea it was explained why she looked weak before the final fight, also vanitas only won cause he never fights fairly to begin with... and important facts you gotta remember that vanitas always put up an equal fight with aqua and making her barely stand in her feet so not surprising he put a work on her, she may be stronger then him but that is only by a tiny merging

You're right. But it's still a terribly written moment because Aqua actually used her own damn body to tank the blast. Like, WTF, who does that when you have a freaking Keyblade in your hand to block, deflect it, or shoot the barrier thingy spell she used to protect Terra during BBS Xehanort fight! FFS

8) Sora vs saix (kh3)

Story wise: saix has the upper hand

Fans: Saix beating Sora? The powers scales in this game is bad...

Arguably: altho this one I have no proof for and can somewhat agree that it’s bad power scale that Sora lost but my only explanation here is that you gotta remember when saix enters his berserk form you really can’t touch him whatsoever, your only option to beat him is take his weapon and use it against him, Roxas for some reason can break his berserk form without using his weapon so yea this the only fight I can say is terrible and one of the few unexplainable power scale

I could also mention how Sora was scared to fight, and then actually struggled in defeating, the snowman in Frozen world.
All he needed to do was shooting Fireballs at him, really...
What made it even worse was that the fight took place much later in the story, when Sora got, arguably, much buffer than at the beginning of the game, where, BTW he defeated the ROCK TITAN.

9) riku and mickey

Story wise: riku and Mickey struggling with heartless demon tide

Fans: those two are weak... and they call them keyblade masters


arguably: I mean didn’t Mickey say to riku that the heartless they are gonna face will be stronger? and the lower they go the stronger the heartless becomes? Seeing as Mickey before becoming master put up an equal fight with aqua against the demon tide back in 2.0 suggest what I’m saying is “arguably” probably correct
The tower that Aqua fought at the end of 0.2 - was much bigger. That's one thing, another one is that Riku didn't lose because he was overpowered. He lost because he was a dumbass - he let himself get caught off guard in such an amateur way!
And if that wasn't enough, those Heartlesses broke his darn keyblade! Up until that moment, we didn't even know it's possible without freezing it first or losing faith in oneself.
 
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Keyblade07

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Forgot to add those as well

1) Sora vs Sephiroth

Story wise: both were fine after battle

Fans: OMG Sora beat sephiroth

Facts: match ended and sephiroth still standing with no injuries


2) Sora vs xemnas (kh1)

Story wise: xemnas leaves after testing kid Sora strength

Fans: Sora beat xemnas

Facts: do you see any sign of defeat from the xemnas... nope xemnas was fine after the fight even tho it was 4vs1


3) Young xehanort vs terra Aqua and ven

Story wise: young xehanort left after the fight and standing showing no sign of defeat

Fans: Young xehanort lost to the bbs trio

Facts: not only was he standing after the fight ended but what skills did TAV show that gives you the idea they can beat YX in one on one in canon story wise battle? Even Sora never fought him one on one and always had his allies


ranking the xehanorts based on feats
1) No heart (probably xehanort in his prime)
2) Master Xehanort
3) Young xehanort
4) Terranort
5) Xemnas/Ansem the seeker of darkness (xemnas without kingdom hearts, seems those two are equal in kh3)
6) apprentice xehanort (for some reason I consider this guy to be his own person different from terranort cause he has brown eyes and resembles young xehanort more then terra)

Fans love to say xemnas is the strongest when that is not true It was stated that xemnas was only the strongest when fused with incomplete kingdom hearts, there’s no feat that will put him above xehanort, without fusing with Kingdom hearts he showed no feat that will put him above both Xehanort and YX, Master xehanort destroyed a world (land of departure) and easily summons kingdom hearts and the took down 3 keyblade master with just wiggling his fingers lol,

Young xehanort showed more feat in khbbs Kh3d and kh3 then xemnas, time powers>>>throwing building, there’s many thing to list really but I guess I will settle with this for now.
 
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Foxycian

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OMG Thank you🙏 For this post I swear I got tired of the fanbase stupidity, don’t get me wrong I love y’all my fellow KH Fans but seriously this post here is legitimate the powerscaling of kingdom hearts isn’t the problem it’s the fandom making wrong assumptions since day 1.
 

Keyblade07

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The tower that Aqua fought at the end of 0.2 - was much bigger. That's one thing, another one is that Riku didn't lose because he was overpowered. He lost because he was a dumbass - he let himself get caught off guard in such an amateur way!
And if that wasn't enough, those Heartlesses broke his darn keyblade! Up until that moment, we didn't even know it's possible without freezing it first or losing faith in oneself.

I agree Riku was soo strong him and losing tbh was dumb excuse to make Sora shine even more...
 

Foxycian

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THANK YOU for this topic; it really bothers me how ignorant fans are about the scaling!

bbs Aqua was equal to vanitas with Aqua has sligh edge so how is Aqua>terranort, if all her fights with vanitas is usually a draw, saying aqua>terranort is like saying vanitas>terranort, her feats doesn’t put her above terra tbh they look pretty even with terra have the edge.
 
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drew0512

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It also potentially destroys players' tension related to every future danger Sora will be forced to go through, because now we know for sure that Sora will be never able to lose. In a fair fight, at least.
Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

Light and dark

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This may be little old topic but still I agree with you the power scaling isn’t messed up but it’s the fans who made wrong assumptions, Sora uses the power of friendship a lot and without it his equal to riku and the rest, people really overhype his strength when it’s his heart tied to others is what made him strong, Sora is not as strong as xehanort or skilled.
 
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