His death

[Taochan]

Where was it said they shared a heart???
Vanitas was carved out of the darkness removed from Ven's heart, and that darkness becomes a heart of pure darkness.
That was 4 years before the actual time of BBS.
There's no getting around that two hearts are needed to form the x-blade, even if one of those hearts originated from the other.

Granted, Vanitas and Ven were still closely connected, that's why Vanitas's got his appearance and could still "feel" Ventus's heart as mentioned in the X-Reports.

I'm not sure if it was ever said. But from the state of the Heart station at the beginning of the game, that's what I took from it. I mean, he had to have taken some of Ven's heart for Ven to have suffered such trauma to his own heart; hence, touching Sora's heart to fill the void left by Vanitas.

As said before, it can be either way and I won't dare to claim one of the versions as absolute truth....
We'll see if this get addressed later on, as well as we will see if Nomura still has use for Vanitas or not.

I'm definitely not claiming my version of the situation to be right either.

In fact I wouldn't mind some further use for him, as he's a good original villain with potential that wasn't fully used in BBS.

I agree, it would be interesting if he returned and was more than, as people put it, "trolling" Ven and Aqua.

 

[Memory Master]

Yeah, well, let me mention this:


At here you mention "hearts" instead of "heart". I'm pretty sure that when Ven and Vanitas fuse to form the X-Blade, their Hearts are reunited, as shown in the Station of Awakening where they fight. At this point, they fight for the full control of the Heart, whoever looses disappears. Vanitas lost, Ven won. Ven's Heart was fractured because of the conflict and Vanitas went back to being a part of Ven's Heart, as he originally was.

There's no such thing as Vanitas' Heart after that battle.

wrong, Vanitas could not have gone back to Ventus' heart because that would make Ventus' heart a normal heart. We know Ventus' heart was still pure light after the defeat of Vanitas because when Ventus' heart left his body went into a comatose state thus proving Ventus still had a heart of pure light which disproves that Vanitas returned to him. Either Vanitas is hiding somewhere or his heart was completely destroyed.

 

[Lavender13]

or maybe vanitas remnant comes into play here.

 

[Absolute]

So, was there any story-realted effects of Vanitas destroying the Station of Awakening pillar he and Ven were fighting on, or was it just to make the battle cooler?

I just wonder. As Vanitas is tuning into light spheres (which is ironic considering he was a heart and body of pure darkness), he touches the bottom and Ven's pillar returns, fully intact.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Understood.
Thank for clearing up :3

No Problem, always gladly to help if I can.

I'm not sure if it was ever said. But from the state of the Heart station at the beginning of the game, that's what I took from it. I mean, he had to have taken some of Ven's heart for Ven to have suffered such trauma to his own heart; hence, touching Sora's heart to fill the void left by Vanitas.

You took from that they shared a heart? 0_o
It's exactly right that MX cracked Ven's heart and extracted the darkness from within it, therefore "carving" out a part of Ven's heart. This actually send the kid into the trauma, cuz, as noted by MX, he was way too weak and fragile to endure such an ordeal (remember we're talking about a 9/10year-old child here).
From that carved out part of Ven's heart the dark heart of Vanitas was formed, while the darkness itself gave Van his form.

I don't know if it helps imagine it, but I compared this actually to a cell division. The part that was carved out somehow functioned on his own.

As they're still connected and Vanitas took most of Ven's power at his creation it was very easy for him to prey on Ven's remaining lifeforce and starting to absorb it.

That's why when MX noticed it he had to abandon the plan of raising both boys together.

That part which was broken out of Ven's heart was indeed either "filled" or "repaired/mended" by Sora's newborn heart, but since this part was still connected to Vanitas and became actually Vanitas's heart he was affected by it => Sora's future looks. A heart dictates the appearance, and look at Vanitas's appearance .

I agree, it would be interesting if he returned and was more than, as people put it, "trolling" Ven and Aqua.

Yeah, but that's actually the developer's or scriptwriter's fault not to use a character more sufficiently.

wrong, Vanitas could not have gone back to Ventus' heart because that would make Ventus' heart a normal heart. We know Ventus' heart was still pure light after the defeat of Vanitas because when Ventus' heart left his body went into a comatose state thus proving Ventus still had a heart of pure light which disproves that Vanitas returned to him. Either Vanitas is hiding somewhere or his heart was completely destroyed.

Wait, since when do we know 100% sure that Ven's heart is still pure light?
Just because he fell comatose? This has nothing to do with him losing his heart, as it is a special case pertaining to the x-blade.
The destruction of the x-blade injured Ven's heart so badly it couldn't maintain Ven's awake state any longer, as Ven still had his heart, Yen Sid even said it is asleep and drifting "in-between".
The heart must have been still within his body at least up to the point where Aqua left him to search for Terra...as he could still use his keyblade to open a door to Land of Departure.
When Sora reaches out to Ven sensing his great pain and sadness that's actually when Ven actually loses his last strength and his badly maimed heart starts to fade/he loses it.
It leaves the body but follows the earlier connection back to Sora who accepts Ven's plea to shelter him.

Ven doesn't lose his heart in the literal sense as it is normally the case. So saying his heart is still pure light is possible, but not 100% proven.
Also, on a side note, someone losing his/her heart doesn't always mean the creation of a heartless...even if that heart has darkness, if it's not overtaken by it no heartless is created.

or maybe vanitas remnant comes into play here.

One can't deny this possibility.

So, was there any story-realted effects of Vanitas destroying the Station of Awakening pillar he and Ven were fighting on, or was it just to make the battle cooler?

I just wonder. As Vanitas is tuning into light spheres (which is ironic considering he was a heart and body of pure darkness), he touches the bottom and Ven's pillar returns, fully intact.

I don't really know...it could be that Vanitas deliberately tried to weaken Ven to finally take over completely...or it could be just a gameplay mechanic.
Sorry, but I think it's probably the second possibility.

Vanitas "dies" the exact same way Eraqus did if one pays attention...again, could only be a gameplay mechanic...

 

[Crystal]

As they're still connected and Vanitas took most of Ven's power at his creation it was very easy for him to prey on Ven's remaining lifeforce and starting to absorb it.

That's why when MX noticed it he had to abandon the plan of raising both boys together

Why does Vanitas will take away Ven's power?
Does darkness always "eat away' Light?

 

[rac7d]

vanitas will return but in new form........

 

[Taochan]

You took from that they shared a heart? 0_o
It's exactly right that MX cracked Ven's heart and extracted the darkness from within it, therefore "carving" out a part of Ven's heart. This actually send the kid into the trauma, cuz, as noted by MX, he was way too weak and fragile to endure such an ordeal (remember we're talking about a 9/10year-old child here).
From that carved out part of Ven's heart the dark heart of Vanitas was formed, while the darkness itself gave Van his form.

I don't know if it helps imagine it, but I compared this actually to a cell division. The part that was carved out somehow functioned on his own.

As they're still connected and Vanitas took most of Ven's power at his creation it was very easy for him to prey on Ven's remaining lifeforce and starting to absorb it.

That's why when MX noticed it he had to abandon the plan of raising both boys together.

That part which was broken out of Ven's heart was indeed either "filled" or "repaired/mended" by Sora's newborn heart, but since this part was still connected to Vanitas and became actually Vanitas's heart he was affected by it => Sora's future looks. A heart dictates the appearance, and look at Vanitas's appearance .

The cell division is a crafty way to look at it, hats off to you for that. Even if I'm wrong, I can't help but still view it as Vani taking part of Ven's heart with him. I'll rewatch all of the cutscenes but it really is how I interpreted the situation. xD
I know Xehanort only took the darkness from Ven, but it seemed to me like he took more than that... because of how utterly devastated Ven's heart station was. I'm probably wrong, but I do like my interpretation because then it makes Vani's actions even more cruel... when he has part of a heart.
I appreciate your explanation though. :]

Yeah, but that's actually the developer's or scriptwriter's fault not to use a character more sufficiently.

Definitely their fault; that's why it would be nice if Vani could return and be allotted to do more than "troll", because I thought he was interesting and more could be done with him.

 

[Vani]

The cell division is a crafty way to look at it, hats off to you for that. Even if I'm wrong, I can't help but still view it as Vani taking part of Ven's heart with him. I'll rewatch all of the cutscenes but it really is how I interpreted the situation. xD
I know Xehanort only took the darkness from Ven, but it seemed to me like he took more than that... because of how utterly devastated Ven's heart station was. I'm probably wrong, but I do like my interpretation because then it makes Vani's actions even more cruel... when he has part of a heart.
I appreciate your explanation though. :]

In a way your right. The Heart is essentially light and darkness. Taking away the darkness is the same as taking away a fragment of the heart in sense.

Definitely their fault; that's why it would be nice if Vani could return and be allotted to do more than "troll", because I thought he was interesting and more could be done with him.

Agree with this completely.

 

[Crystal]

The cell division is a crafty way to look at it, hats off to you for that. Even if I'm wrong, I can't help but still view it as Vani taking part of Ven's heart with him. I'll rewatch all of the cutscenes but it really is how I interpreted the situation. xD
I know Xehanort only took the darkness from Ven, but it seemed to me like he took more than that... because of how utterly devastated Ven's heart station was. I'm probably wrong, but I do like my interpretation because then it makes Vani's actions even more cruel... when he has part of a heart.
I appreciate your explanation though. :]

Your explanation make sense too .
What you mean by "took more than that",
Does it mean Ventus' darkness is more than light?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Why does Vanitas will take away Ven's power?
Does darkness always "eat away' Light?

Because Vanitas is a cruel asshole? Lol...honestly it never got said exactly why Vanitas did this, however it is clear this was not in Xehanort's interest at all.
But Vanitas likes to disobey orders as we know...

It's actually a constant struggle that goes forth. If darkness is predominant it tries to devour Light (take a black hole as example) while light on the other hand tries to banish/push back darkness. As long as this goes on between them there is a balance. However in the case of Vanitas and Ven there wasn't a balance.
Ventus was already weakened due to constant attacks from the neoshadows MX summoned and badly hurt due to Xehanort forcefully cracking his heart, maybe one of the cruelest single actions we had so far in the series.
So while Ven's darkness may have been tiny, he was too weak and broken to use his light to set up a effective resistance to Vanitas's darkness.

The cell division is a crafty way to look at it, hats off to you for that. Even if I'm wrong, I can't help but still view it as Vani taking part of Ven's heart with him. I'll rewatch all of the cutscenes but it really is how I interpreted the situation. xD
I know Xehanort only took the darkness from Ven, but it seemed to me like he took more than that... because of how utterly devastated Ven's heart station was. I'm probably wrong, but I do like my interpretation because then it makes Vani's actions even more cruel... when he has part of a heart.
I appreciate your explanation though. :]

Now I'm actually thinking we're misunderstanding us somewhere, I never denied that part I made bold above.

It's exactly right that MX cracked Ven's heart and extracted the darkness from within it, therefore "carving" out a part of Ven's heart.

Xehanort really did take more than just the darkness alone, clearly to see as a part of Ven's station is missing.
The only thing I furthered about it was that this "part" of a heart which originally belonged to Ventus became the dark heart of Vanitas, while the darkness itself formed Vanitas physical form.
That's why I made the comparison with the cell division, as the derived "daughter"-cells are actually to function.

The connection was still there because while not belonging to Ven anymore, these two hearts formed a bond despite the one originally hailing from the other.

Since there were three issues against Ven
- weakened due to before battle with the neoshadows
- trauma due to MX painful forcing the heart to split
- Vanitas feeding off him due to his state
there are quite the reasons why he was about to fade/disappear.

Xehanort planned to make two hearts out of one and use both, yet due to circumstances one of the hearts was strained too much by being put through too much
at once.

So honestly I don't see where we differ that much...lol.

Also, it seems we have confused CrystalMaiden a bit...*ggg*

Definitely their fault; that's why it would be nice if Vani could return and be allotted to do more than "troll", because I thought he was interesting and more could be done with him.

Indeed, as potential is surely there.

What you mean by "took more than that",
Does it mean Ventus' darkness is more than light?

Not really this, see above. "More than that" actually means MX took not only the darkness, but also a part of Ven's heart, which both Taocha and I are on the same boat with actually.

Judging by MX's comments about little Ventus being too kind and benign when he was his apprentice (before that heart-cracking) and his annoyance about it I think it's safe to assume that Ventus originally had very little darkness, on the same scale as Sora if not even less.

 

[Crystal]

Because Vanitas is a cruel asshole? Lol...honestly it never got said exactly why Vanitas did this, however it is clear this was not in Xehanort's interest at all.
But Vanitas likes to disobey orders as we know...

How does Vanitas disobey order?

It's actually a constant struggle that goes forth. If darkness is predominant it tries to devour Light (take a black hole as example) while light on the other hand tries to banish/push back darkness. As long as this goes on between them there is a balance. However in the case of Vanitas and Ven there wasn't a balance.
Ventus was already weakened due to constant attacks from the neoshadows MX summoned and badly hurt due to Xehanort forcefully cracking his heart, maybe one of the cruelest single actions we had so far in the series.
So while Ven's darkness may have been tiny, he was too weak and broken to use his light to set up a effective resistance to Vanitas's darkness.

Ah..i see
So due to in-balance, Ventus seem to be weak?

Also, it seems we have confused CrystalMaiden a bit...*ggg*

xD
You both didn't confuse me.
But i should thank that someone can really explain eveything in a polite manner.
I play two version of BBS, and there is some translation different and makes me blur about that.
Thanks for clearing up anyway

Not really this, see above. "More than that" actually means MX took not only the darkness, but also a part of Ven's heart, which both Taocha and I are on the same boat with actually.

Judging by MX's comments about little Ventus being too kind and benign when he was his apprentice (before that heart-cracking) and his annoyance about it I think it's safe to assume that Ventus originally had very little darkness, on the same scale as Sora if not even less.

Did some of the Ventus' memory being extracted too?

 

[Stars]

Did some of the Ventus' memory being extracted too?

When Ventus came to LoD, I think he doesn't remembered being Xehanort's student?
Or maybe his fractured heart causes that..?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

How does Vanitas disobey order?

Example is his first fight with Ven at the Badlands. While Xehanort needs Ven alive for his plan, Vanitas actually tries to destroy Ven after their first battle.
He only fails at this because Mickey intervened.

Ah..i see
So due to in-balance, Ventus seem to be weak?

It's actually the other way around.
Due to Ventus already being injured, traumatized and weakened that much there is an imbalance which actually makes it easier for Vanitas to feed on his lifeforce.
Ven had enough light, yet he was to weak to counter Vanitas with it.

xD
You both didn't confuse me.
But i should thank that someone can really explain eveything in a polite manner.
I play two version of BBS, and there is some translation different and makes me blur about that.
Thanks for clearing up anyway

I only have the german version of BBS too, but since the voices remain in english I can relate somewhat to the english version. For things like the reports etc. however those are in german entirely.

Did some of the Ventus' memory being extracted too?

Who knows? All we know for sure is that Ventus lost all memory due to all the mess he had to go through.
When he first arrived at Land of Departure he even just barely remembers his own name.

 

[Crystal]

Example is his first fight with Ven at the Badlands. While Xehanort needs Ven alive for his plan, Vanitas actually tries to destroy Ven after their first battle.
He only fails at this because Mickey intervened.

I thought it was Xehanort's order.

I only have the german version of BBS too, but since the voices remain in english I can relate somewhat to the english version. For things like the reports etc. however those are in german entirely.

I see.
Because I played japanese version and NA version.
I don't know which is the correct interpretation.

Who knows? All we know for sure is that Ventus lost all memory due to all the mess he had to go through.
When he first arrived at Land of Departure he even just barely remembers his own name.

He knows his past only when he meet Xehanort?

 

[jonXjon]

Did Ven absorb Vanitas back into his heart? But I think I'm really wrong. If he did, he might be in Sora, he could have taken Sora's darkness? Maybe he wants to recreate the X-Blade like MX wanted to?

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I thought it was Xehanort's order.

I see.
Because I played japanese version and NA version.
I don't know which is the correct interpretation.

He knows his past only when he meet Xehanort?

Xehanort's order? Why would Xehanort order Ventus's destruction? It makes no sense as it would disrupt his own plan.

Also, Vanitas himself says: "I'll might be going against my master's orders, but so what? As far as I'm concerned, your job here is done!"

So he's clearly going to eliminate Ven on his own accord, deliberately ignoring Master Xehanort.
Remember, Vanitas cares for no one except himself, it's highly likely he only obeys Xehanort because he's stronger than him and only when he sees it fit.

I dunno, but I would assume if the english or german version for that matter contradict the japanese one the japanese is to be trusted more, as there can be translation errors.

When Ventus meets Xehanort while searching for Mickey, no, not completely, he only gets a short flash of one memory and Xehanort explains to him what the x-blade is.
Ven regains his memories for real in a painful way when he meets Vanitas at Destiny Islands.

@jonXjon:
We don't know what exactly happened. Some people tend to believe Vanitas got re-absorbed, some deny it.
There's no concrete proof as of yet, as well as there's no proof what exactly Vanitas's status is now.

That's why we're discussing here, playing through possibilities and unraveling background info.

 

[Crystal]

Xehanort's order? Why would Xehanort order Ventus's destruction? It makes no sense as it would disrupt his own plan.

Also, Vanitas himself says: "I'll might be going against my master's orders, but so what? As far as I'm concerned, your job here is done!"

So he's clearly going to eliminate Ven on his own accord, deliberately ignoring Master Xehanort.
Remember, Vanitas cares for no one except himself, it's highly likely he only obeys Xehanort because he's stronger than him and only when he sees it fit.

Wasn't his plan is to make the X-blade?

I dunno, but I would assume if the english or german version for that matter contradict the japanese one the japanese is to be trusted more, as there can be translation errors.

I dunno which having an errors.. >.>

When Ventus meets Xehanort while searching for Mickey, no, not completely, he only gets a short flash of one memory and Xehanort explains to him what the x-blade is.
Ven regains his memories for real in a painful way when he meets Vanitas at Destiny Islands.

Ah..i see. So it makes Ven want to fight him in KG?

Err..i have a question, if Vanitas re-absord by Ventus. Wouldn't it makes Ven to be a complete heart?

 

[Taochan]

Because Vanitas is a cruel asshole? Lol...honestly it never got said exactly why Vanitas did this, however it is clear this was not in Xehanort's interest at all.
But Vanitas likes to disobey orders as we know...

This is another reason why I would love for Vani to be expanded on. It seems like he followed Xehanort's orders when they were convenient to him, and that he really did want the X-blade and control of Ven's body... but it definitely seemed all for himself instead of MX.

It's actually a constant struggle that goes forth. If darkness is predominant it tries to devour Light (take a black hole as example) while light on the other hand tries to banish/push back darkness. As long as this goes on between them there is a balance. However in the case of Vanitas and Ven there wasn't a balance.
Ventus was already weakened due to constant attacks from the neoshadows MX summoned and badly hurt due to Xehanort forcefully cracking his heart, maybe one of the cruelest single actions we had so far in the series.
So while Ven's darkness may have been tiny, he was too weak and broken to use his light to set up a effective resistance to Vanitas's darkness.



Now I'm actually thinking we're misunderstanding us somewhere, I never denied that part I made bold above.


Xehanort really did take more than just the darkness alone, clearly to see as a part of Ven's station is missing.
The only thing I furthered about it was that this "part" of a heart which originally belonged to Ventus became the dark heart of Vanitas, while the darkness itself formed Vanitas physical form.
That's why I made the comparison with the cell division, as the derived "daughter"-cells are actually to function.

The connection was still there because while not belonging to Ven anymore, these two hearts formed a bond despite the one originally hailing from the other.

Since there were three issues against Ven
- weakened due to before battle with the neoshadows
- trauma due to MX painful forcing the heart to split
- Vanitas feeding off him due to his state
there are quite the reasons why he was about to fade/disappear.

Xehanort planned to make two hearts out of one and use both, yet due to circumstances one of the hearts was strained too much by being put through too much
at once.

So honestly I don't see where we differ that much...lol.

Also, it seems we have confused CrystalMaiden a bit...*ggg*

You're right we really had a similar interpretation of Ven/Van. Sometimes it's easy to word/read something wrong and have it have a completely different interpretation of it... I think that's what happened with us here. xD

 

[Sephiroth0812]

It was Xehanort's plan, yes, and it was Xehanort's intention to let Ven become stronger so he can create the x-blade by clashing with Vanitas on equal terms.

Yet Vanitas choose to ignore this and tried to destroy Ventus, as he put it: "You're worthless."

Ah..i see. So it makes Ven want to fight him in KG?

Nope, it's actually the opposite. Ventus knows that the x-blade will be forged if he fights Vanitas and is terrified of that weapon, that's why he refuses to fight him.
Vanitas counters by threatening to kill Terra and Aqua, actually forcing Ven to go to the Keyblade Graveyard.
Driven to a point of no choice left, Ven thinks of only one last possibility to prevent the creation of the x-blade => asking Terra and Aqua to kill him.

Err..i have a question, if Vanitas re-absord by Ventus. Wouldn't it makes Ven to be a complete heart?

Again, we don't know...we don't know if Ven's heart wasn't already complete again due to Sora's heart repairing it, nor do we know if he really needs this particular part back or if his heart can be healed another way.
The only clear thing about this is, that when Vanitas really got re-absorbed, Ven should have his darkness however tiny it was back and no longer a pure light heart.

EDIT:

This is another reason why I would love for Vani to be expanded on. It seems like he followed Xehanort's orders when they were convenient to him, and that he really did want the X-blade and control of Ven's body... but it definitely seemed all for himself instead of MX.

Yeah, exactly this.
And Vanitas had quite the reasons to do this if one thinks carefully about it.
It's actually said the hearts have to intersect for the x-blade to be born, not that they must fuse.
However Vanitas is not dumb...I'm quite sure he realized MX wanted the x-blade for himself.
Very easy for Vanitas to put 1 and 1 together that when the x-blade was finally forged he has outlived his usefulness for MX and would be going to be eliminated by MX, who would take the x-blade.
So, to counter MX in his new body Vanitas wanted to "dominate" Ventus (no nasty thoughts here, please!) and use his power along with his own to have a chance against MX and eventually claim the x-blade solely for himself.

You're right we really had a similar interpretation of Ven/Van. Sometimes it's easy to word/read something wrong and have it have a completely different interpretation of it... I think that's what happened with us here. xD

^This. And sometimes I also tend to use too strong wording I've noticed...lol