His death

[Crystal]

For that bit, as already said, his heart is gravely injured, not completely destroyed.

As for how he managed to open it:
Well, to summon a keyblade one needs a heart (exception, nobody of a keyblade wielder, but this doesn't apply here), so that means Ventus still had his badly maimed heart inside him at that point.
This is also not contradicted by Yen Sid, who just said his heart is "asleep" and it is as if the heart is gone. He doesn't say it as a fact.
If Yen Sid can actually sense if Ven's heart is injured and how severe it is, that is matter to speculation.
However back to the point with that door to light.


It happens just after Aqua contemplates where to take her comatose friend, and there I assume Ven, just for once mobilizing his last ounce of strength, actually summons the blade to show Aqua the way where he would like to rest.


Sometime later then, Ven already in his sleeping chamber, his heart finally succumbs and due to the severity of the injury must leave its body because it can't go on any longer. This great pain and sadness is then felt by Sora, who reaches out and then accepts the heart's plea to shelter it.

So, between the actual sustaining of that injury and the heart seeking refuge with Sora passes at least a bit of time.

So, his heart is gravely injured and didn't destroyed. Why does Yen Sid couldn't sense him?

 

[Pratiko]

I cannot believe there's so many people that believe he's still somewhere.
When Nomura says "there's no such thing as death in KH" he doesn't really mean it, you know. Characters have to go in and out of the story somehow.

 

[rac7d]

I cannot believe there's so many people that believe he's still somewhere.
When Nomura says "there's no such thing as death in KH" he doesn't really mean it, you know. Characters have to go in and out of the story somehow.

yeah name a few who have done that?

 

[HeartSeams]

I cannot believe there's so many people that believe he's still somewhere.
When Nomura says "there's no such thing as death in KH" he doesn't really mean it, you know. Characters have to go in and out of the story somehow.

Yeah, death definitely exists in KH. Characters -can- die and never make a reappearance. It's going to happen to Xehanort at the end of KH3.

yeah name a few who have done that?

Repliku.

 

[rac7d]

Yeah, death definitely exists in KH. Characters -can- die and never make a reappearance. It's going to happen to Xehanort at the end of KH3.

Repliku.

well yes and know on that one i wouldnt be suprised if they pulled him ou of there but later on,
and if you read the manga which is somewhat canon in explain minor thing you'd know somthing about him
plus if hes all you got after 7 games it dont mean much

 

[Stars]

So, his heart is gravely injured and didn't destroyed. Why does Yen Sid couldn't sense him?

Maybe he is too weak that Yen Sid couldn't sense him? But I think Yen Sid said his heart wandering between the realm, i don't know if i remembered it wrongly.

 

[Crystal]

Maybe he is too weak that Yen Sid couldn't sense him? But I think Yen Sid said his heart wandering between the realm, i don't know if i remembered it wrongly.

So, it makes Ven's heart is inactive ..
His heart did wandering in RoD?

 

[HeartSeams]

well yes and know on that one i wouldnt be suprised if they pulled him ou of there but later on,
and if you read the manga which is somewhat canon in explain minor thing you'd know somthing about him
plus if hes all you got after 7 games it dont mean much

The Manga isn't canon at all.
The problem is, to understand that someone can die in KH, you have to realize that for many of the character that -have- been defeated that wasn't death. Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas being defeated wasn't death because it makes them whole. Death does exist in KH, and it is never said that -anyone- can come back from it. just because we haven't seen this happening a lot doesn't mean it can't happen.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

So, his heart is gravely injured and didn't destroyed. Why does Yen Sid couldn't sense him?

Yen Sid actually did sense his heart, he said it's "asleep" and "drifting between light and dark" => this is probably an allusion to the grave injury and the heart being about to fade (just like in the prologue) but Ven stemming himself with all willpower against it.

Yet when placed in the chamber of waking and Aqua left him the pain became too much and Ven couldn't hold his heart any longer => hence his request to come to Sora instead of letting his heart fade.

I cannot believe there's so many people that believe he's still somewhere.

There are many people who believe this because it is actually possible.
How likely or unlikely it is depends on opinion, but fact is that Vanitas can come back and it's up to the creator if he will.

Yeah, death definitely exists in KH. Characters -can- die and never make a reappearance. It's going to happen to Xehanort at the end of KH3.

Yeah, Death exists in KH.
If you rob the soul of all lifeforce it'll no longer be able to move on => Death.
If the soul leaves the body due to old age or irreparable damage to the body => Death.

The soul is the "battery" and holder of the lifeforce in KH, so for "true" death to occur, the soul and the body must be separated.

Death does exist in KH, and it is never said that -anyone- can come back from it. just because we haven't seen this happening a lot doesn't mean it can't happen.

I've actually to agree with this.
The way I understand this is, that only those can come back who still have a deep connection to a heart still living in the RoL.

 

[Crystal]

Yen Sid actually did sense his heart, he said it's "asleep" and "drifting between light and dark" => this is probably an allusion to the grave injury and the heart being about to fade (just like in the prologue) but Ven stemming himself with all willpower against it.

Yet when placed in the chamber of waking and Aqua left him the pain became too much and Ven couldn't hold his heart any longer => hence his request to come to Sora instead of letting his heart fade.

Oh.
I thought Ven's heart was left during the scene at Mysterious Tower.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Oh.
I thought Ven's heart was left during the scene at Mysterious Tower.

See my post from earlier. If this would have been the case Ven would not have been able to summon his Wayward Wind and open that light door to the Land of Departure while being carried on Aqua's back.

 

[Pratiko]

There are many people who believe this because it is actually possible.
How likely or unlikely it is depends on opinion, but fact is that Vanitas can come back and it's up to the creator if he will.

Yeah, well, let me mention this:

This leads later to the fact that the hearts connected to the x-blade are not completely destroyed (they would if the weapon would have been complete) but only gravely injured.

At here you mention "hearts" instead of "heart". I'm pretty sure that when Ven and Vanitas fuse to form the X-Blade, their Hearts are reunited, as shown in the Station of Awakening where they fight. At this point, they fight for the full control of the Heart, whoever looses disappears. Vanitas lost, Ven won. Ven's Heart was fractured because of the conflict and Vanitas went back to being a part of Ven's Heart, as he originally was.

There's no such thing as Vanitas' Heart after that battle.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Yeah, well, let me mention this:


At here you mention "hearts" instead of "heart". I'm pretty sure that when Ven and Vanitas fuse to form the X-Blade, their Hearts are reunited, as shown in the Station of Awakening where they fight. At this point, they fight for the full control of the Heart, whoever looses disappears. Vanitas lost, Ven won. Ven's Heart was fractured because of the conflict and Vanitas went back to being a part of Ven's Heart, as he originally was.

There's no such thing as Vanitas' Heart after that battle.

Well, that is actually your theory about it, not a stated fact. So other people as well as I may have other theories/opinions of this.

Ven's heart was fractured because of the destruction of the x-blade, not the fight.

And where is it stated that the loser of their fight disappears?
If the x-blade would not have been destroyed the victor would have complete control over their fusion with the other personality/sense of self completely suppressed and under the others control.

Oh, and another quote as it's so good:

*laughs* The x-blade is made of your heart too, idiot. If you destroy it, your heart will vanish forever.

Vanitas himself makes a clear distinction between their hearts. And while he tried to take over fully, Ven's resistance prevented it.
The picture of the awakening station only shows that Vanitas invaded Ven's heart, not more.

 

[Taochan]

Yeah, well, let me mention this:


At here you mention "hearts" instead of "heart". I'm pretty sure that when Ven and Vanitas fuse to form the X-Blade, their Hearts are reunited, as shown in the Station of Awakening where they fight. At this point, they fight for the full control of the Heart, whoever looses disappears. Vanitas lost, Ven won. Ven's Heart was fractured because of the conflict and Vanitas went back to being a part of Ven's Heart, as he originally was.

There's no such thing as Vanitas' Heart after that battle.

As Sepiroth0812 pointed out that is never said. :/ This is your theory, just as we have our own theories. None of us know if Vanitas is canonically dead or able to come back yet. We all interpreted the scene differently.

@Sephiroth0812: Hi.
That line can kind of be interpreted either way. It can suggest that they have different hearts but it also suggests that it is their shared heart. By saying, "-it's your heart too", as in, it's your heart as well as mine.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

As Sepiroth0812 pointed out that is never said. :/ This is your theory, just as we have our own theories. None of us know if Vanitas is canonically dead or able to come back yet. We all interpreted the scene differently.

@Sephiroth0812: Hi.
That line can kind of be interpreted either way. It can suggest that they have different hearts but it also suggests that it is their shared heart. By saying, "-it's your heart too", as in, it's your heart as well as mine.

Hi there, my friend.

Have this one to give to you, after watching the scenes in the trinity reports several times the english line really can be interpreted in both ways, depending on where one makes the accentuation.
However clear is that we haven't a definite answer...and it was often the case with KH that a minor detail which seemed insignificant in one game can have a way bigger impact on the entire series later.
Also, as I remember it was said to forge the x-blade two hearts have to intersect, not to fuse.

 

[Taochan]

Hi there, my friend.

Have this one to give to you, after watching the scenes in the trinity reports several times the english line really can be interpreted in both ways, depending on where one makes the accentuation.
However clear is that we haven't a definite answer...and it was often the case with KH that a minor detail which seemed insignificant in one game can have a way bigger impact on the entire series later.
Also, as I remember it was said to forge the x-blade two hearts have to intersect, not to fuse.

That tricky Vanitas has so many things that we can interpret differently about him. And you're right, none of us know which interpretation of that line is correct either. We can just talk about which version makes most sense to us.
I remember that as well, but they still did share a heart so it's hard to say if they had at this point come to develop their own hearts. I know they did intersect during the confrontation, but when Ven "destroys" Vanitas it could have been that Ven had just won the struggle for dominance over the shared heart, or it could have been that Ven had effectively shoved Vanitas out of the body for good.

Guh~ I hope KH3D or BBS:FM will clear this up.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

That tricky Vanitas has so many things that we can interpret differently about him. And you're right, none of us know which interpretation of that line is correct either. We can just talk about which version makes most sense to us.

Yup, no more and no less...

I remember that as well, but they still did share a heart so it's hard to say if they had at this point come to develop their own hearts.

Where was it said they shared a heart???
Vanitas was carved out of the darkness removed from Ven's heart, and that darkness becomes a heart of pure darkness.
That was 4 years before the actual time of BBS.
There's no getting around that two hearts are needed to form the x-blade, even if one of those hearts originated from the other.

Granted, Vanitas and Ven were still closely connected, that's why Vanitas's got his appearance and could still "feel" Ventus's heart as mentioned in the X-Reports.

I know they did intersect during the confrontation, but when Ven "destroys" Vanitas it could have been that Ven had just won the struggle for dominance over the shared heart, or it could have been that Ven had effectively shoved Vanitas out of the body for good.

Guh~ I hope KH3D or BBS:FM will clear this up.

As said before, it can be either way and I won't dare to claim one of the versions as absolute truth....
We'll see if this get addressed later on, as well as we will see if Nomura still has use for Vanitas or not.

In fact I wouldn't mind some further use for him, as he's a good original villain with potential that wasn't fully used in BBS.

 

[Pratiko]

I refuse.
I can't accept Vanitas still being somewhere.

Sorry to bother, but I seriously dislike this thread.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I refuse.

Well everyone is entitled to his own opinion.
That's okay and acceptable.
What however would not be acceptable is forcing that opinion on others or don't accept there are other opinions on this matter.

I can't accept Vanitas still being somewhere.

Again, opinion.
Yet I somehow can't understand why someone cannot even accept the possibility it could be different and that Vanitas somehow still exists somewhere.
After all, he was an own existence with an own mind, will and an own sense of self.
Neither is proven or disproved as true, so if one wants to be objective one has to consider both possibilities.

Sorry to bother, but I seriously dislike this thread.

So what? If it's bothers you so much no one forces you to read or post in this thread...!?

Seriously, I don't know what the problem is...a forum about the series is going to have theories and speculation on possible future developments...

 

[Crystal]

See my post from earlier. If this would have been the case Ven would not have been able to summon his Wayward Wind and open that light door to the Land of Departure while being carried on Aqua's back.

Understood.
Thank for clearing up :3