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AdrianXXII

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I honestly don't see much of a benefit in the electoral college. we have the senate and the house of representatives to represent the smaller states and district, why does the president also have to win states instead of just a popular vote.

What Trump has been able to get away with is ridiculous, no matter how bad what he did was, it was always downplayed and swept under the carpet, that's not a good direction for any party to go. And I'm furious to see him get away with inciting a domestic terrorist attack against the capital, with months of riling people up and even hindering security from interfering.
Seems anytime the current republicans face consequences or are asked to do something they rather not, they claim to be canceled or that the action is unconstitutional.

Last I checked though, they didn't have the votes to do that. Even though it's in the republicans best interest to keep Trump from voting again for their own political careers, I think they're still scared of the Trump mob.
Yeah. I think a lot of them would be okay with him being Impeached (well excerpts for ones like Marjorie Greene) , but don't want to lose his base or be the target of their fury. They're putting on a show, but I wouldn't be surprised, if the vote was anonymous some of them would break rank.
 

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Considering that we have gone from Rutherford Hayes winning even though he was 254,000 votes behind, to George W. Bush winning while 544,000 votes behind, to Trump winning while 2,869,000 votes behind, I'd definitely agree that it's time for a change. The process hardly seems democratic to me. I can understand having a council step in if the public votes for an incompetent, egomaniac with mental instability issues, but not voting for one themselves.

The point of the electoral college is also archaic. While Hamilton argued that it would mean a buffoon wouldn't get into the office because they would vote on policy rather than popularity, the point was that America we know and that the America Hamilton knew are two different Americas. America of Hamilton's time was more like the European Union except much pettier. We didn't have the right to vote. Whether people could vote was a State Right. It's why Jersey allowed women to vote before it became a Constitutional Amendment.
I've questioned a lot since Trump got in. When he was talking about pardoning himself and people were saying he could actually do it, I immediately thought that we needed to make amendments there. No one should be able to pardon themselves or their family members and friends. No one should have that kind of power. He made acts of war against other countries without congressional approval multiple times and that wasn't contested. Another red flag. He was able to continue operating and hiring people while under mental and criminal review. He was able to fire the head of his investigation. All major flags. Now they're saying you can't have a trial against a previous president. Like hell you can't. Somehow he can incite insurrection within the last few weeks and since they can't have a trial that quickly before he goes, he gets off? What? This is justice? And look at how fast the Republicans in Congress went from turning their backs on him to backing him up again.

That's the problem with checks and balances. When no one does their duty to ensure checks and balances, we get this crap. Institutions are only as effective as the fools and thugs who are in them.

The government is absolutely riddled with corruption. I don't even see the need of having a president anymore. Maybe someone to meet with foreign leaders for us as a representative. I don't understand electing people every 4 years who can be total idiots and not know even 25% of what they'd need to know to be in charge of the entire government and the military. I don't understand letting them completely revamp everything each time and micromanage. I say hire heads for each department in government. The head of the EPA should be an environmental scientist and the best they can get. Let them run themselves with some department overseeing them to try to screen out corruption. When a fire starts burning down a city you don't have a bunch of people who know nothing about fires discuss what to do, or whether or not the fire exists. You call the fire department and let them handle it. It should be the same thing when a disease breaks out. You let the CDC do their work. You certainly don't hinder them from it and refuse to meet with them.

One, civil servants would end up being hired on partisan lines. Even if we hired an environmental scientist, the scientist would be hired on partisan lines.

Two, the comparison between the CDC and fire department is erroneous. The CDC is a research institution. Doctors, scientists, and mathematicians, they have plenty of. In the face of a pandemic, however, you need every aspect of government on deck. Taiwan's politicians essentially played liaison with their CDC to their departments of transportation, defense, education, and much more. When you have a nation this large, you also need to play liaison with the state governments themselves. I trust a doctor to figure out what is wrong with my blood test. I don't trust a doctor to juggle remote education, stimulus checks, industry production of masks and ventilators, management with the Indian Reservations, and so much more. A pandemic doesn't exist in a vacuum like a fire does.
Yeah. I think a lot of them would be okay with him being Impeached (well excerpts for ones like Marjorie Greene) , but don't want to lose his base or be the target of their fury. They're putting on a show, but I wouldn't be surprised, if the vote was anonymous some of them would break rank.
Trump Supporters: RiGgEd! RiGgEd! ThE DeEp StAtE!

They would just kick up domestic terrorism comparable to the Troubles in Ireland.
 
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One, civil servants would end up being hired on partisan lines. Even if we hired an environmental scientist, the scientist would be hired on partisan lines.
There has to be some way to fix that. Some kind of nonpartisan committee. I don't believe in political parties. I think they exist to lobby and brainwash in effort to rule.

Impeachment trial is going to proceed. Six clear-headed Republican Senators actually voted for it. The rest should be ousted for blind patriotism.
 

Sephiroth0812

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The main issue with the "process" in the Senate is that Trump collaborators are still allowed to be part of the jury.

People like Ted Cruz or Mitch McConnell who covered for Trumps escapades for years and allowed for things to get this far that the issue with the capitol could even happen should not be among those having the right to decide a sentence.
They should either be removed from office or be in the dock alongside Trump.

I can't remember the US ever having an administration which was this corrupt and dangerous before, not even Nixon was that bad and he already was a contender for the position before Trump.
It isn't enough to cut off the main head (Trump) of the beast, you have to burn up the entire Hydra for a full clean up.
 

kirabook

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It would be interesting if some committee assignments and other positions of power required special credentials. Like, once you have acquired all the necessary, your name is entered into a poll of people who are even allowed to serve that role.

In that way, the people in the pool will still have their own beliefs and all that, but no matter who the president is, at least they're picking someone who is qualified to a tee and not just some lobbyist who paid them to get it. (Betsy DeVos)
 

U.N. Owen

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There has to be some way to fix that. Some kind of nonpartisan committee. I don't believe in political parties. I think they exist to lobby and brainwash in effort to rule.
Sadly, all nations have political parties, even one party states, because likeminded people like being around each other. They're an inevitability. Even Washington who is an opponent of political parties sided with the Federalists because he ideologically aligned with them more. Our system is not built to manage parties. If you read the Constitution and surrounding SCOTUS rulings, our Constitution is designed to appease petty states.

Impeachment trial is going to proceed. Six clear-headed Republican Senators actually voted for it. The rest should be ousted for blind patriotism.
Good luck. It takes 2/3 of a given chamber to oust unruly or treasonous members. We probably can't get 2/3 of a given chamber to grab a fire extinguisher and put out a fire before it burns down the building.

I can't remember the US ever having an administration which was this corrupt and dangerous before, not even Nixon was that bad and he already was a contender for the position before Trump.
It isn't enough to cut off the main head (Trump) of the beast, you have to burn up the entire Hydra for a full clean up.

We've had our fair share of Presidents who were corrupt and inept before, President Grant comes to mind. Sadly, Trump's corrupt and dictatorial is newer than you would expect. The My Pillow CEO had a whole document dedicated to faking an incident with Iran or China so Trump could have martial law across the nation. The last time we declared that in a time of war was right after Pearl Harbor.
 

AdrianXXII

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I think it's kind of wild that just anyone can be elected president. Like I think it's fine for anyone to be able to become a mayor, senator or representative, but positions like governor or President should require a bit more experience in governing.

There has to be some way to fix that. Some kind of nonpartisan committee. I don't believe in political parties. I think they exist to lobby and brainwash in effort to rule.
I agree I really dislike parties. Especially nowadays where it'd be easy to fill out a survey and see how closely your answers align with those of the politicians you can choose from. With parties it's so easy to fall into the team mentality, especially if there's only to big influential ones.

Good luck. It takes 2/3 of a given chamber to oust unruly or treasonous members. We probably can't get 2/3 of a given chamber to grab a fire extinguisher and put out a fire before it burns down the building.
It's depressing how true this is.
 

U.N. Owen

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I think it's kind of wild that just anyone can be elected president. Like I think it's fine for anyone to be able to become a mayor, senator or representative, but positions like governor or President should require a bit more experience in governing.
Well, other nations have presidents or equivalents who have similar requirements as America's: 35 years of age, resident for 14 years, natural born citizen, have not committed treason as specified by the 14th Amendment. It's just that our voters are stuck in a two party system. When you are stuck with only two parties, you have a lot more voters who vote just to spite the other who they believe are demons from hell.
 

AdrianXXII

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Well, other nations have presidents or equivalents who have similar requirements as America's: 35 years of age, resident for 14 years, natural born citizen, have not committed treason as specified by the 14th Amendment. It's just that our voters are stuck in a two party system. When you are stuck with only two parties, you have a lot more voters who vote just to spite the other who they believe are demons from hell.
True other countries also do that. Still to me that's like just letting someone who never drove, drive a schoolbus. It could work out, just I'd rather they have driven a car for a few years before given this responsibility.

You are right that this problem gets worsened by the two party system. A lot of votes for a candidate are often just votes for the party or votes against the other guy.
 

Dentim

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Once again the GOP fails to do the right thing, surprising absolutely no-one anymore.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Once again the GOP fails to do the right thing, surprising absolutely no-one anymore.

At least we saw 7 of them pull away. A number of them were expected ones. Pissed at McConnell, though. Fuck him.
 

AdrianXXII

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This was expected, but still disappointing. How can they still use the unconstitutional excuse after there was already a vote declaring it not to be.
 

Sephiroth0812

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It is baffling that such a failure of a political party filled with incompetent yet arrogant idiots still gets so many votes across the entire USA.

The 43 Republican Senators who voted against Trump being guilty are spineless cowards and enablers of evil.
There's neither dignity nor moral upstanding values present and I can only hope this will bite this farce of a "party" hard in the future.
 

kirabook

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It's moments like this where you start to understand how a nation can eventually collapse. It doesn't matter how bad things get, there will be some people in power that proudly usher in the chaos.
 

Elysium

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It'll be interesting to see who the 2024 Republican nominee will be. I don't think Trump will run again, but who knows. I've heard rumors about so many different names running--Haley, Desantis, Rubio, Hawley, Cruz, Christie. I'm curious how it'll turn out... I'm not worried about Haley, but I'd much rather someone like Rubio or Christie over even worse options like Desantis / Hawley / Cruz, who were either close to Trump or went all-in on imitating him as much as possible. I still feel like Ivanka or Trump, Jr. will try to run in the future, God help us.

Biden v. Rubio or Hawley would emphasize how old Biden is... I still hope he doesn't run for re-election as he's alluded to before, but I feel like that's unlikely. Still, Incumbency is a powerful thing in politics.
 

U.N. Owen

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I hate to make a Star Wars connection, but this is how the Republic fell, partisan bickering with corporations and populism.

To make a Star Wars connection again, this is also how the New Republic fell. Partisan deadlock with the First Order backing one of the parties before just vaporizing those useless idiots (Star Wars: Bloodlines).
 

Just Dari

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For starters, I'm glad to see internationals on this site taking an interest in events transpiring in the US.

---

Special interest over everything else. Thats the way of the world. Doubtful, but whats stopping the same supporters that flew halfway across the country from going after any elected official that voted against the former president. Unlikely without a push from Trump himself in a similar fashion to what lead up to the events of the sixth, but some of them were probably considering that possibility. Its a strange position to be the ones in a frightening and threatening situation, to then be the sole power that bars him from taking office ever again. I don't know how well many of you are versed in laws, citing articles, or if you're just basing your reasoning on the fundamentals of accountability, moral bankruptcy, etc, this wasn't an easy decision anytime the first amendment gets discussed because without proper outlines, it protects A LOT with regards to expression in multiple forms.

All I kept hearing this entire impeachment trial, were that the arguements were based on two fronts. One based in the camp of emotion, and the other in process. If McConnell pushed to delay the proceedings repeatedly while the 45th president was in office and didn't hold an impeachment, let alone present the articles until he was already out of office. Then it should surprise no one, literally no one that he voted to acquit the former president.

The only thing you now have, is precedent. You now have a situation where presidents in future administrations based on their terms in office, can be impeached after they've left office or an article of impeachment can be drafted and presented in the aftermath of a term. Precedent and long-term implications and actualities are EVERYTHING. Remember that.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Precedent and long-term implications and actualities are EVERYTHING. Remember that.
This is why I think Democrats should have done a better job pressuring and lobbying with Republican Senators to impeach Trump. Trump is a danger to the Republic, and now he has free rains to run on 2024 and he's been martyred in his base. The Republicans that voted in favor of finding Trump guilty were the typical ones that put resistance towards his in his Administration.

I don't know, I just feel like the Democrats did the impeachment and didn't actually push the small amount of GOP Senators they needed in order to find Trump Guilty.
 

Dentim

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This is why I think Democrats should have done a better job pressuring and lobbying with Republican Senators to impeach Trump. Trump is a danger to the Republic, and now he has free rains to run on 2024 and he's been martyred in his base. The Republicans that voted in favor of finding Trump guilty were the typical ones that put resistance towards his in his Administration.

I don't know, I just feel like the Democrats did the impeachment and didn't actually push the small amount of GOP Senators they needed in order to find Trump Guilty.
What's the news on other criminal prosecution against Trump? And wouldn't a conviction on that front also bar him from running again?
 

Elysium

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The only way Republicans would have convicted is if there was a secret ballot. There is no amount of lobbying Democrats could've done that would've changed this result. Personally, I'm glad it's over with even if it's something that had to be done for history's sake.
 
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