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Politics Hey Americans...



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Conservatives tend to be much more religious in general, and glorify the "golden age" of the U.S. 1950s, and want the government to be "smaller" so that they feel like they can stay in the smaller bubble of their local community and not HAVE to care about the world at large. The world used to be a Utopia, and going back to that "Utopia" and honoring tradition before all else is the goal.

This sounds very much me except for the religious part. :p

That being said, I'm very anti-Trump. To me Trump is not "conservatism." He's closer to fascist. We've had plenty of conservative presidents. He's something new. He totally changed my views of the presidency forever, negatively. Thanks to him, I now no longer feel like you have to be an extremely intelligent and skillful person to get into the Oval Office. You can be the complete, polar opposite.

There are two kinds of Trump voters. One is the kind that votes for him because they absolutely adore him and identify with him. They're the ones I worry about. The other kind is the type that votes for him because he's the conservative candidate and they're too conservative to vote for the liberal one. I know plenty of conservatives who think Trump's a total idiot and would rather any other conservative in charge. If you're me and you don't like either choice, you just don't vote at all or vote third party, but most people don't do that.

Trump has definitely created a new age of stupidity. Because of him, we have things like QAnon theory. We have loads of people who not only believe the absolute most ridiculous of theories but also come up with new ones as a hobby.

I see conspiracy theorists on the Left too. I see other things I consider dangerous. Hating on the police force instead of specific members of it, for example. Or those that actually believe in getting rid of the police (not the defunders). Or extreme censorship and trigger warnings instead of teaching things like backbone and how to take a joke. Or supporting riots. Or seeing every single person accused of molesting someone as immediately guilty before they ever start the trials and present the evidence. A lot of liberals even reflect something of McCarthyism with their crusade against racists, or rather everyone they see as racists. There's a mob mentality on both sides.

It's when you sit back as a moderate without a party preference and really watch both parties that you realize they're both full of craziness and in many ways totally reflect the other. They're really not that different, although as I said, Trump is something new.
 

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I'm not going to lie, everyone... I don't get what's so bad about Donald Trump... If he isn't going to stop me from gaming, why should I want him gone so bad? That being said, I could not get out of my gaming chair to vote as my skin has melded with it
 

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kirabook

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You say that, but I remember some of the Trump supporter youtubers having a freakout like "OUR PRESIDENT WOULD NEVER DO THAT! IT'S A MISUNDERSTANDING"

It was interesting watching them trying to defend Donald Trump, gun rights, AND their vidiya gamez
 

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That being said, I could not get out of my gaming chair to vote as my skin has melded with it

This actually happened a few times and the stories are beyond horrific. :sick:

Also, no last minute pardons were handed out(Clarity edit: no pardons to anyone who stormed the Capitol), cue Capitol Terrorists Loyal Brave Patriots wailing at being thrown under the bus by a man they idolized and threw their lives away for.


Officer Goodman was also just promoted to Acting Deputy Senate Sergeant.
 
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Xblade13

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This actually happened a few times and the stories are beyond horrific. :sick:

Also, no last minute pardons were handed out, cue Capitol Terrorists Loyal Brave Patriots wailing at being thrown under the bus by a man they idolized and threw their lives away for.


Officer Goodman was also just promoted to Acting Deputy Senate Sergeant.
Actually, one last pardon WAS handed out as Trump left office: to the husband of a Fox News host...?
 

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Actually, one last pardon WAS handed out as Trump left office: to the husband of a Fox News host...?

Yeah I fixed it, I should've added that I meant to those who stormed the Capitol.
 

Ballad of Caius

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In other news, Trumpists meltdowns seems to suggest that Trumpism could die down. There are a lot of MAGA folks disappointed that Trump ended his presidency with no flare. It just happened. He didn't pardon no one from the insurrection, he didn't do anything big, so they feel betrayed. After risking their lives for the man and he does nothing.

With less supporters and the fact that Trump could be prosecuted in any moment, I don't think he'll get back into politics.
 

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Yeah I’ve seen a lot of them realizing Trump did nothing for them in his 4 years. The wall didn’t get built, DACA still exists, coal did not come back, hIlLaRy’S eMaIlS, and now everybody hates them on top of not getting anything.

Some are still hardcore Trump and I think some enterprising politician will utilize it once they finish licking their wounds.
 

AdrianXXII

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Yeah, I'm surprised that they're actually losing faith in him. I guess they were expecting more from him than throwing a tanrum before going off to throw his own pitty party.
Seems they're starting to see it wasn't just an act or “fake media" slandering him.

Right now the Trump name also seems to be poison in the business world, though i doubt that'll last all to long.
Still Donald Jr. and Ivonka's political dreams are dead for now.

While the MAGA and Q Anon might be falling appart right now, others like the proud boys and other alt right groups will remain. So it's probably not entirey over, but at least it's looking better than before.

I'm just happy that nothing happened yesterday, i was expecting another attack and am so relieved it didn't happen.
 

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The wall didn’t get built,
It technically got built, but Mexico didn't pay for it, hahaha. But I get your point: unfulfilled promise.

DACA still exists,
Correct.

coal did not come back,
Oh, God. I forgot all about that.

hIlLaRy’S eMaIlS,
LOL He never #LockHerUp

Some are still hardcore Trump
Oh yeah. I saw one very vocal gay Trump supporter feel disappointed, but remedied himself by saying that Democrats as well are gonna suffer Biden's agenda, lol.

Now that we look back, God, Trump did nothing. Sure, he didn't start a war, or more so, a direct war (drones say hi), but when you weight all the pros and cons, hell, Trump was one hell of a con.
 

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I want to be able to feel a bit of relief now that Trump is gone, but I'm worried about the nutjobs he mobilized and the fact that his presidency caused a bit of a ripple across the globe with more and more right-wing populists getting into power.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Nah. The Clintons were more an example of the Roosevelts than Biden. Fun fact is the Roosevelts were notoriously hated while they were alive although they are responsible for the world we live in being a much better place. People see change as evil, even if it's good change.

It's sad because Hillary's candidacy tells us what likely would've happened to Eleanor Roosevelt if she had been able to run for president in those days. The Republicans have been trying to "lock her up" since HRC first came on the national stage as First Lady thirty years ago, partly because they couldn't handle a dreaded feminist in the White House and partly for revenge that she helped take down Nixon. The problem though is a person has to commit a crime first before you can lock them up. Running for president while female doesn't count, lol. But, really, that was all the chant was really about--her gender. The first woman who ever ran for president in history (not as one of the major parties) was actually thrown in jail a night before the election on nonsensical charges and then released after the election was over... Casting a female candidate as somehow criminal isn't a new thing--knowing voters will play along because for many, it feels innately "wrong" for a woman to be on a stage where there's never been one--and there's no doubt it was a tactical decision. Just like birtherism against Obama.

To kirabook: Liberals are the Left. The Bernie types are "the fringe" or "the socialists," not "lefties." Biden's win this year tells us Hillary's loss was mostly due to external factors; the opposing side couldn't repeat things like social media misinformation tactics or Comey's letter because everyone remembered their game from four years ago. If her politics was what turned off white men in the Midwest, they wouldn't have overwhelmingly abandoned Bernie for Biden in the primary last January.... I suppose the next woman that attempts to run for president should come from the Midwest. Maybe their misogyny won't be off the charts with "one of their own"--but I doubt it. That's partly why I wish a woman had been the Dem nominee in 2020, since the way people acted with the first woman who ran would be fresh in everyone's minds when they repeat that same behavior with the next woman. It would make it easier to see it for what it really is.

Really, I remember seeing "Best to worst presidents"-lists where Roosevelt ranked in the top 5 even among conservatives.

His "New Deal" is still seen as a prime example on how to establish (or stabilize) an effective economic system even if it still had some flaws.

It were the 1930s/1940s, back then things were even worse than today and I honestly doubt they would even have let Mrs. Roosevelt run as a candidate at all.

Like, I think Trump taking the crown as worst modern president is a no-brainer, but I'm not really sure who deserves the silver 2nd place more, Reagan or Nixon. Both were awful presidents as well.

I don't remember any of the following presidents accomplishing something similarly in terms of scale.
Especially not Ronald Reagan who essentially destroyed much of the benefits the New Deal had brought, much like Thatcher in the UK.

Bernie Sanders is, when you compare it to European standards, more or less a social democrat, which is is a political stance left of the center but not so far left you can't enter a working coalition with centrists or so-called liberal-conservatives, political forces standing slightly right of the center.
It has zero to do with communism or left-radical positions, big corporations and similar interest groups are just using these buzzwords to slander the proposed policies.

In the USA though the whole view of the scale is somewhat distorted towards the right as what in Europe and other continents are counted as moderate left positions are mistaken as extremist while on the right there are positions considered "acceptable" by large groups in the USA which in other parts of the world are seen as already bordering fascism.

It's jarring to see and hear some Americans praising themselves and their country for allegedly "saving the world from tyranny" in WW II yet some of the policies and measures they propose as desirable were used by the very same tyranny they claim the USA fights against to devastating effects.

Oh yeah. I saw one very vocal gay Trump supporter feel disappointed, but remedied himself by saying that Democrats as well are gonna suffer Biden's agenda, lol.

Now that we look back, God, Trump did nothing. Sure, he didn't start a war, or more so, a direct war (drones say hi), but when you weight all the pros and cons, hell, Trump was one hell of a con.
Tbh I am a little surprised Trump even has supporters who are gay?
I mean, two of the biggest supporter groups of Trump are religious fanatics and facist-leaning racist right-wingers, both groups known to be very anti-anything not being 100% heterosexual.

Like , how can you support a group who in a very large majority denies you your basic rights because you have the wrong sexual orientation? It's just as baffling as white women voting for Trump despite him being a sexist scumbag.

Speaking of it, did Trump actually got any law or policy done via the normal law-making process through congress or were it all just executive orders which Biden can now throw into the trash with a single signature?

It is wrong to say Trump got nothing done though, he did manage to make the rich even richer by his tax cuts, got the Supreme Court poisoned by appointing backwards thinking scum to three seats, got the USA isolated and alienated from its allies worldwide and managed to cause more US deaths in one year than the country had in WW II due to mishandling the COVID pandemic.

Biden has a lot to clean up and repair and depending on how the next mid terms go he might not be able to get it all done.

I'd argue they're not just enabling. I didn't mean the person voting for him would actually think it's okay (though obviously it's not a dealbreaker to them either), but to an outside observer it'd seem like they endorse and support the bigotry and think it's acceptable, unless they go out of their way to vocalize their disagreement. We've seen that after his election, with the increase in openly bigotry actions.
People felt emboldened because the guy talking like them got elected. The result is that people like Trump's devoted fanbase will then get the impression that their attitude is accepted and more widely spread than it actually is.

I'm honestly of the believe that a sizable number of the votes for Trump, were more votes against the Democrats and for the Republican party than outright for him. A lot of Trump Supporters won't see it that way though.


Yeah, Biden's job will basically be to clean stuff up and leave a good impression so that the Democrats don't lose the house and senate in the midterms or the Presidency in 4 years. But even that seems like a herculean task.
The issue with the Democratic party is that it's a party that's trying to cover everything from the left to the right and keeping all of those groups happy is impossible.

On the upside it seems Bernie will be making some (hopefully) lasting changes that'll see the minimum wage go up, which should help in the recovery process.

Something that confuses me is that some of the most vocal Republicans like to act as if some of the suggested stuff from the Left won't work and would lead to ruin, while working perfectly well in the rest of the world. Sure the systems aren't perfect, but by adapting it later on they have the advantage of experience they can work with and try and improve upon.

It may also be a certain variant of cherry picking, simply ignoring the bad things Trump did and said and focusing solely on the alleged good things he did.
Take many of the disgruntled and driven to poverty white workers in the Rust Belt-states due to the negative effects of globalization. Most of those probably do not even hate or dislike gay people or People of Color, they just care more about finally having a livable income, food and the middle-class life back they were robbed of than the (to their ears) constant whining of some minority groups about problems they feel aren't even pressing problems to begin with.

To these more simple people (which isn't even meant negatively), the government, left-leaning folks and also the "big shots" in the great cities on the coasts are setting the wrong priorities and when pointing that out they get condemned and piled upon as racists and whatever buzzwords are en vogue right now, causing frustration and eventually defiance, resulting in a vote for people like Trump even if that doesn't really mean an improvement for themselves.

To hold the House and Senate I fear leaving a good impression alone won't be enough, on one hand because of local politics in every state also being important for which party gets the seats available and on the others because of the weird US election system there will be manipulations again, mainly from Republicans, to favor their own party.

Bernie? Did Biden actually nominate him for a post and I missed that?

Those vocal Republicans are slandering the proposals of the left-leaning representatives do not do so because of any issue working or not working, they do so because the lobbyists behind them don't want any change that could result in them having either less money in their coffers or less influence (or both).
The issue is not if it actually works for the whole populace, it has to work for the radical capitalists who don't want a single decrease in their profits, taking all advantages but giving only back in terms of tokenism.
These politicians then go along with this because they received lots of donations from these people.


---
If anything so far no more incidents happening shows that rigorously cracking down on stunts like trying to illegally change the election outcome and the people in charge of some institutions not balking on Trumps propaganda and bullying-like threats works and can prevent the worst.

I certainly don't like people like Mitch McConnell or Mike Pence especially since they enabled Trumps escapades for so long causing quite some damage, but when it came to the toughest decision and to prevent what was an actual coup attempt they luckily rediscovered their spine and dropped Trump and his core entourage of crooks.

There's no denying though that all of this was a close call and the USA slid past turning autocratic by a narrow margin. Someone more competent and less fixated on his own ego in Trump's position could actually have succeeded.

Those Trump supporters having meltdowns could actually get more dangerous in the future especially if a new figurehead rises to channel their sentiments.
 

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Like, I think Trump taking the crown as worst modern president is a no-brainer, but I'm not really sure who deserves the silver 2nd place more, Reagan or Nixon. Both were awful presidents as well.
I think it would be Nixon or someone from the distant past like Taft. At least I remember learning Taft's administration was extremely corrupt? I could be wrong there. EDIT: Oh, you were talking about modern presidents. I don't think it would be wrong to call Trump the all-time worst. I mean Nixon was nothing in comparison.

Bernie Sanders is, when you compare it to European standards, more or less a social democrat, which is is a political stance left of the center but not so far left you can't enter a working coalition with centrists or so-called liberal-conservatives, political forces standing slightly right of the center.
It has zero to do with communism or left-radical positions, big corporations and similar interest groups are just using these buzzwords to slander the proposed policies.
I often hear this take, but America is not Europe which makes those arguments kind of pointless. We are a government that's made up of 50 lower governments, whereas I don't think most of those countries operate in that way? The socialists are the main reason Biden lost Florida this year, because of many Latinos and immigrants there who are familiar with socialism rejecting Democrats for having chosen to house them in their party. It can't exactly be dismissed as a buzz word when those are the labels they themselves choose to use. As for the rest, we'll have to agree to disagree, because they don't at all act like they can "work with" anyone.

In the USA though the whole view of the scale is somewhat distorted towards the right as what in Europe and other continents are counted as moderate left positions are mistaken as extremist while on the right there are positions considered "acceptable" by large groups in the USA which in other parts of the world are seen as already bordering fascism.
It's not just the rest of the world. The media (aside from the Trump bubbles like FOX News and OneAmericaNews), NeverTrump conservatives, Democrats, and socialists have all been calling the far right group that Trump represents fascists for years now in this country. It's really only Trump and his supporters that say this label is not true, but lying about what they are is pretty much part and parcel with fascism.

It may also be a certain variant of cherry picking, simply ignoring the bad things Trump did and said and focusing solely on the alleged good things he did.
Take many of the disgruntled and driven to poverty white workers in the Rust Belt-states due to the negative effects of globalization. Most of those probably do not even hate or dislike gay people or People of Color, they just care more about finally having a livable income, food and the middle-class life back they were robbed of than the (to their ears) constant whining of some minority groups about problems they feel aren't even pressing problems to begin with.

To these more simple people (which isn't even meant negatively), the government, left-leaning folks and also the "big shots" in the great cities on the coasts are setting the wrong priorities and when pointing that out they get condemned and piled upon as racists and whatever buzzwords are en vogue right now, causing frustration and eventually defiance, resulting in a vote for people like Trump even if that doesn't really mean an improvement for themselves.
This was a theory that was discussed often in the 2016 aftermath. But 2020 primary results broken down into counties and demographics blew it apart, because most of the white men who supported Bernie abandoned him when there was another white male candidate on the ballot. Hillary’s and Biden’s politics aren’t much different from one another, so I don’t believe it is a referendum in support of socialism anymore. It seems more like they revolted at having to vote for a woman (since she was the only liberal-leaning centrist option available that year) more than anything else. I don't expect a woman of color like AOC will ever have the ability to pool together Bernie's 2016 crowd if she were to run in the future for that reason.
 
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The socialists are the main reason Biden lost Florida this year, because of many Latinos and immigrants there who are familiar with socialism rejecting Democrats for having chosen to house them in their party. It can't exactly be dismissed as a buzz word when those are the labels they themselves choose to use. As for the rest, we'll have to agree to disagree, because they don't at all act like they can "work with" anyone.

I just want to add some context to this. Cuban immigrants in Florida always have been a strong support base for the Republicans before the progressive wing of the Democrats started gaining prominence. Cuba had an authoritarian leader prior to Castro who unlike him was a fascist instead of a socialist/communist. While Castro definitely had his faults, he did a ton for black Cubans who suffered under Bautista.

Those who fled Cuba for the sake of escaping authoritarianism probably wouldn't have it in their best interests to vote for Trump. On the other hand, those whose families benefited from previous regime..
 

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Oh yeah. I saw one very vocal gay Trump supporter feel disappointed, but remedied himself by saying that Democrats as well are gonna suffer Biden's agenda, lol.
Aahh... I really don't get those types. How can he still be on that side after Trumps little hissy fit that purely targeted LGBT+ with those Executive Orders.

Now that we look back, God, Trump did nothing. Sure, he didn't start a war, or more so, a direct war (drones say hi), but when you weight all the pros and cons, hell, Trump was one hell of a con.
Well it wasn't for a lack of trying. Sending troops into mexico, drone striking Iran and constantly antagonizing other heads of states.

It may also be a certain variant of cherry picking, simply ignoring the bad things Trump did and said and focusing solely on the alleged good things he did.
Take many of the disgruntled and driven to poverty white workers in the Rust Belt-states due to the negative effects of globalization. Most of those probably do not even hate or dislike gay people or People of Color, they just care more about finally having a livable income, food and the middle-class life back they were robbed of than the (to their ears) constant whining of some minority groups about problems they feel aren't even pressing problems to begin with.
Like I said it's not really about what they themselves believe, but by putting their support behind him, they give others the impression that being openly bigoted is okay. I'm sure there are plenty of people that voted for Trump that are appalled by some of the behavior.
One of my friend's parents are really lovely kind and open minded people, but they always voted Republican and the Republican's paint such a bad picture of the left, that they like many voted for them regardless who the candidate is. Pretty sure they were discussed by all the bigotry.

To these more simple people (which isn't even meant negatively), the government, left-leaning folks and also the "big shots" in the great cities on the coasts are setting the wrong priorities and when pointing that out they get condemned and piled upon as racists and whatever buzzwords are en vogue right now, causing frustration and eventually defiance, resulting in a vote for people like Trump even if that doesn't really mean an improvement for themselves.
Yeah, it seems that it's often forgotten that some of the issues faced in the cities and more diverse areas don't quite have the same impact in the more rural areas. Also in said rural areas, they don't have the same options, they lack the infrastructure cities have and they lack the services you can find in cities.
Also sometimes policies implemented to help people doesn't work out that way everywhere. The parents of my friend I previously mentioned. Told me about how with Obamacare their medical insurance costs when up instead of down.

Sadly the people that feel forgotten by the progression, will vote Republican, which might support some of their needs, will also work against them in regards to income, infrastructure and workplace rights.

To hold the House and Senate I fear leaving a good impression alone won't be enough, on one hand because of local politics in every state also being important for which party gets the seats available and on the others because of the weird US election system there will be manipulations again, mainly from Republicans, to favor their own party.
Yes, it'd be nice, if they could do something about the gerrymandering. But democrats have also benefited from it so I doubt they'd get rid of it, by instilling a independent department to be in charge of it. I just hope that people will be still shocked enough from these past few years that they'll still turn up for the election in two years. That is, if they're not purged from the registrations in the meantime and can still vote by mail.

Generally voting in the US system is frustrating. My vote as a Californian carries less weight than the vote of someone from Wyoming.
Bernie? Did Biden actually nominate him for a post and I missed that?
Not sure, if Biden did, but Bernie is now the Chair of the Senate Budget Committee. Meaning it'll be easier to get stuff passed budget wise, with the majority Democrat Senate. Raising the minimum wage seems pretty high on his priority list.

Those vocal Republicans are slandering the proposals of the left-leaning representatives do not do so because of any issue working or not working, they do so because the lobbyists behind them don't want any change that could result in them having either less money in their coffers or less influence (or both).
The issue is not if it actually works for the whole populace, it has to work for the radical capitalists who don't want a single decrease in their profits, taking all advantages but giving only back in terms of tokenism.
These politicians then go along with this because they received lots of donations from these people.
That's basically the issue we're dealing with in the current democratic system and why I agree that there's a need for better regulation on how much influence the super rich are allowed to have. I mean even here in Europe we're struggling from the corporate interest taking president over what the people as a whole want. Article 13 is a nice example.

We are a government that's made up of 50 lower governments, whereas I don't think most of those countries operate in that way?
Not to be rude, but what do you think the EU is? Even on a lower level a lot of countries in Europe are federations. Like Switzerland (non-EU) and Germany (EU) both have "states" (Canton in Switzerland and Bundesland in Germany), that have their own governments to a lesser degree.

Also from what I heard part of the reason the latino community in the Florida region rejected the democrats is because the Republicans actively tried to paint the Democrats as evil Socialists in the vain of the places they might have come from, which if they came from countries where socialism went wrong obviously would make them reject it. But the socialism Bernie seems to be going for is less USSR or Cuba and more Sweden or Norway aka social democracies.
 

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They called Biden socialist. Lol.
It doesn't matter, ANY democrat is a socialist to the Republicans. You can BE a republican like Mitt Romney and as soon as you disagree with them, then you're a communist. Labels don't matter anymore.

Liberals need to stop being afraid of incorrect labels. It doesn't matter how not-socialist you are, they're STILL going to call you and all your policies socialist no matter what you say or do. To the Cubans in Florida, Biden is socialist because he's not a Republican. That's all there is to it.

As for rural vs cities, I do get the divide I guess. But, I think what rural people need to understand is that it's not the people of the coast causing them problems. A lot of those people from the coast are also people from rural areas who had no choice but to move to a populated place for a job and to make a living.

I agree with ideas that people such as Ro Khanna put out there. We need to invest in rural communities via technology and transportation. The US needs a national rail system or an easy way for normal people to get around that doesn't involve expensive air fair or having a car.

They also need to bring fast internet and other commodities coastal/city people have been enjoying for decades.

I think most coastal/city people already know this. But it's not like individuals are able to make big sweeping changes like that. Either the government has to incentive it, or big business and corporations do. There are areas of this country that have fallen apart because manufacturing and mining are no longer a thing. The next best step is to introduce those areas to new ways to get money.
 
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