God's Not Dead

[EnchantedDominion]

"After he refuses to disavow his faith, a devout Christian student must prove the existence of God or else his college philosophy professor will fail him."
Sorry, but this would never happen. Not in today's world. Professors could get fired for that. They'd never win their case. I went to 3 different colleges. Two were universities. That just does not happen without some kind of punishment for the professor. Sorry.
Every professor knows that religion is a topic that cannot be proven nor disproven. You simply don't know until you die. That's not the standpoint you take on discussing religion at college.
This is a myth the Christian Right has been playing for a very long time that has spread so much that it turned into a film. I found it highly distasteful because of that. It's one thing to make a Christian film, and even a political one. That's fine. But don't build the film on a lie. It doesn't look good.
I also find this quite funny because my philosophy courses were the closest courses to theology that I had. We pretty much only talked about Christianity and ethics.

 

[Nutari]

"After he refuses to disavow his faith, a devout Christian student must prove the existence of God or else his college philosophy professor will fail him."
Sorry, but this would never happen. Not in today's world. Professors could get fired for that. They'd never win their case. I went to 3 different colleges. Two were universities. That just does not happen without some kind of punishment for the professor. Sorry.
Every professor knows that religion is a topic that cannot be proven nor disproven. You simply don't know until you die. That's not the standpoint you take on discussing religion at college.
This is a myth the Christian Right has been playing for a very long time that has spread so much that it turned into a film. I found it highly distasteful because of that. It's one thing to make a Christian film, and even a political one. That's fine. But don't build the film on a lie. It doesn't look good.
I also find this quite funny because my philosophy courses were the closest courses to theology that I had. We pretty much only talked about Christianity and ethics.

And now they're making, God's Still Not Dead.

Like what the heck? Talk about cashing in on an already not super successful story. And pushing an agenda.

What University did you have your Philosophy course at?

 

[EnchantedDominion]

And now they're making, God's Still Not Dead.

Like what the heck? Talk about cashing in on an already not super successful story. And pushing an agenda.

What University did you have your Philosophy course at?

I took philosophy at 3 different schools: Santiago Canyon College, California State University of Fullerton, and University of California at Irvine. The ones I remember the most was at UCI since that's where I graduated. We were discussing ethics all the time, and there were some Christian students who took at it from a Bible perspective, so the class kinda turned into Bible study everyday.

I'm also very sad to hear about this sequel. Ugh. -_-

 

[Cosmic+Amarna]

And now they're making, God's Still Not Dead.

Like what the heck? Talk about cashing in on an already not super successful story. And pushing an agenda.

Oh, God have mercy. I watched it from start to finish… very unimpressed to say the least. I actually wrote a brief review on Amazon because I was so unimpressed (well and because a friend had suggested it, saying that it was really good).

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

Oh, God have mercy. I watched it from start to finish… very unimpressed to say the least. I actually wrote a brief review on Amazon because I was so unimpressed (well and because a friend had suggested it, saying that it was really good).

I didn't really like that film, I guess due to me taking it too seriously. Were you kind of bored with it?

 

[VoidGear.]

The principle of 15+ is good on paper, but it holds some nasty consequences.

That's true.
The problem is that people don't turn into saints just because they have babies. What I'm trying to say is: There are many parents who, e.g., only tell their children about what they believe or don't believe in, which is sad.
I think everyone should just try to teach their children that there are different religions, beliefs etc, and just let them decide for themselves. But that's easier said than done. :/

 

[Nutari]

I took philosophy at 3 different schools: Santiago Canyon College, California State University of Fullerton, and University of California at Irvine. The ones I remember the most was at UCI since that's where I graduated. We were discussing ethics all the time, and there were some Christian students who took at it from a Bible perspective, so the class kinda turned into Bible study everyday.

I'm also very sad to hear about this sequel. Ugh. -_-

There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing Christian ethics, in an ethics class. Obviously I'm biased because I attend a Christian University, but, it's important to discuss ethics from the Christian perspective. Especially when most ethical outlooks (from renowned philosophers) tend to be self centric, and either subscribe to, or flirt with, utilitarian ideals. If nothing else at least the Christian ethic system, as taken from the New Testament, does try to achieve the greatest good for those the Christian comes in contact with.

Granted not every Christian lives an ethical lifestyle, and thus, you get your hypocrites, and the people who think that making this movie is going to put Atheists in their place.

 

[EnchantedDominion]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing Christian ethics, in an ethics class. Obviously I'm biased because I attend a Christian University, but, it's important to discuss ethics from the Christian perspective. Especially when most ethical outlooks (from renowned philosophers) tend to be self centric, and either subscribe to, or flirt with, utilitarian ideals. If nothing else at least the Christian ethic system, as taken from the New Testament, does try to achieve the greatest good for those the Christian comes in contact with.

Granted not every Christian lives an ethical lifestyle, and thus, you get your hypocrites, and the people who think that making this movie is going to put Atheists in their place.

I wasn't really saying there was anything wrong with it (though I do think we spend almost all our time talking about Christianity in Humanities, when there are other religions and other beliefs that are left out quite a lot). I also think you can discuss ethics without it, but a lot of students did not seem to get that. I was more responding to how a lot of very far-right Christians seem to think that they are so oppressed and prejudiced against in society, and that professors are actually forcing students to prove God. That's just not the case.

EDIT: The problem with only discussing ethics from a Christian perspective is that you define morals and ethics as being "Christian," which makes it seem like no one else can be ethical or moral. There are common ground ethics and morals that are practiced by most members of society throughout the world, and that have been good for people to end up getting along. There are also a lot more ethics and morals than those discussed in the Bible.

I'd be more for discussing common ground between the ethics of different religions and what that says about society.

 

[namine_ftw]

The problem is that people don't turn into saints just because they have babies. What I'm trying to say is: There are many parents who, e.g., only tell their children about what they believe or don't believe in, which is sad.
I think everyone should just try to teach their children that there are different religions, beliefs etc, and just let them decide for themselves. But that's easier said than done. :/

Part of being a parent is instilling in your child the set of morals and values you think is right. For many families, this is tied to religious belief. I can't exactly fault a parent for teaching their child only the religious beliefs they follow (especially if their religious beliefs imply that there are consequences for those who don't). If someone believes strongly in something (religious or political ideology, a cause or social movement, etc.) it is only natural for them to want their child to share their same values and beliefs. Also, if they follow one particular religious path, we can assume they chose that path for a reason, and value it above alternative religious beliefs. If that's the case, would the parent really be the most objective person to teach their child about other religions?

I see no problem with parents raising their children into their own faith. When the child gets older, he/she will decide if it's right for him/her. It's incredibly important, however, for parents to be open to any questions from the child, whether they be about the faith the family follows, the validity of faith in general, or about other religious paths. I was fortunate enough to have parents where I could ask anything (especially in regards to religion) and they wouldn't mind, but I've heard stories where parents would get mad if their child starts questioning things. Adult's shouldn't fear the questions of a child; they should welcome them and use them as a springboard for discussion.

 

[EnchantedDominion]

@namine_ftw and VoidGear - I think you've both brought up a really interesting argument there. I don't see any issue with people teaching their kids their own beliefs. Families have done that for who knows how long? Centuries. The only issue with it is like what Void says, sometimes families only teach that. There is no discussion. Some kids have no idea what other religions are like, or at least a very small idea. They're not taught to think for themselves. They're taught to obey. I was raised that way by a lot of members of my family. It was, "These are our views," and that's it. My little cousins had noooo idea about politics, not the slightest. They asked my grandma what political parties were. She said, "We're Republican," and ended it at that. I said, "Actually, I'm not." And she was like, "Oh, well that's you," as if I'm like some dirty word the family doesn't wanna think about. lol

A lot of people have no idea what it's like to really think for themselves until they're forced to do it in college, and their families (like mine) will still come out and say, "That's brainwashing!" No, actually you were brainwashing your kids and now they're thinking for themselves, and you don't like what they're thinking. Some people think for themselves and end up agreeing with their families. Some don't. C'est la vie. I was the black sheep in my family and they've never forgiven me for it. LOL

 

[Shinra]

Any religious text and any religion surrounding it is a creation of man and just like man itself, can be corrupted. However that is not bad on it's own. So I leave these words not because I'm self righteous but because people need to hear them: " it's not the religion surrounding the texts that matter, it's the values taught and sustained by those texts that do." anyone agree?

 

[EnchantedDominion]

Any religious text and any religion surrounding it is a creation of man and just like man itself, can be corrupted. However that is not bad on it's own. So I leave these words not because I'm self righteous but because people need to hear them: " it's not the religion surrounding the texts that matter, it's the values taught and sustained by those texts that do." anyone agree?

I half agree. Considering religious texts often have passages calling for execution, genocide, and oppression, I wouldn't say religion can't be bad on its own. There are good and bad passages.

 

[Hidden]

Any religious text and any religion surrounding it is a creation of man and just like man itself, can be corrupted. However that is not bad on it's own. So I leave these words not because I'm self righteous but because people need to hear them: " it's not the religion surrounding the texts that matter, it's the values taught and sustained by those texts that do." anyone agree?

I disagree, precisely because religion extends so far beyond the bounds of religious text. I do not care what the book says nearly so much as how people interpret it and put it into practice. That is what has an effect on me and the rest of the world.*

*I should note that if you are a religious believer, I would still argue the most important factor is how you interpret the text, not the text itself. But of course there are people who would argue with that.

 

[Professor Ven]

[video=youtube;ss5r0xsPVU0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss5r0xsPVU0[/video]

Human solidarity and/or unity does not require religion to exist. Religion itself is something that is very divisive (and arguably poisons everything) - anyone who is informed will know of the divisions solely between the three major monotheistic faiths - culturally, politically, socially, etc. Is religion important on an individual basis outside of power structures such as the Holy See in Rome? Yes. Is it right to proselytize one's faith to those who do not want it? In my opinion, no. Those who desire a form of worship/faith/religion will go in search for it.

There is still no documented sign of a God or Higher Being having existed; the few accounts that mention a "Christos" are few (Senator Tacitus, Josephus? if I remember right mentions him). Breadcrumbs, we have yet to find a definable body we can date as the body of Jesus Christ, and if we find one - what happens then? Do people cease being good upon the fact that the Messiah was a lie? Do they kill, rape, murder, and loot in the streets, as there is no Almighty overhead to judge them on a constant, 365 days a year, 24/7 basis?

Is it worth living in an Armageddon caused by the loss of this celestial North Korea? Decidedly not; the world is better off placing religion into a quiet corner, for fully grown, mentally-stable adults to choose for themselves at the age of 25 (and after intensive study of each and every major religion) their personal religion. The First Amendment of the United States would not be deterred or blocked, merely allowed to better facilitate an educated, mindful, and ethical populace.​

 

[Grono]

I disagree, precisely because religion extends so far beyond the bounds of religious text. I do not care what the book says nearly so much as how people interpret it and put it into practice. That is what has an effect on me and the rest of the world.*

*I should note that if you are a religious believer, I would still argue the most important factor is how you interpret the text, not the text itself. But of course there are people who would argue with that.

I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with this last point. I'm not a fan of labels myself, and even if I was a religious man I certainly wouldn't interpret a text such as the bible in its entirety, and certainly not literally. That's the reason why I left Christianity; the book told me tons of falsehoods and non-facts, and my logical brain chose evidence over a book telling me how the world works.