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Giving Donald & Goofy a Chance



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Jim Hawkins

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After playing KH1 and KH2 recently, it really struck me that Donald, Goofy, and the other Disney characters suck in the epic boss fights. Yes they are great during regular battles, and even hold their own decently well during Heartless boss battles and Disney boss battles. But when it comes to the Organization or KH original boss fights, they are just flat out useless.

And I'm not just talking about AI, though that is certainly part of it. I mean their stats are not nearly as good as Sora's. Yes, the main character should be the best, but still, I would like Donald and Goofy to last longer than 5 seconds when I'm fighting the Lingering Spirit. Since it appears that KH3 is going to full of Organization-esque battles, I would certainly appreciate it if my party members had stats that were a little closer to mine.

Am I the only one here who would like that, or should the Disney characters not be able to hold their own, at least for a little while?
 

Antar

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I agree. I have never even bothered with party members (except for healing) because they are so useless. But I don't think it's the stats that are the problem, it's like you said, the AI.
 

MasterKaze

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In Kingdom Hearts 2, the only thing I found party members useful for were Drive Forms.
 

State

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If Reaction Commands make a return, they should consider making a sort of finisher command where you finish the boss with one of your partners or both. That should AT LEAST give them a bit of usage.
 

MATGSY

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They're not not even useful as playable in Days' mission mode, where they're supposed to be as viable as anyone else.

I guess part of the problem is that its...well, Donald & Goofy. Not exactly a pair of characters that come across as badass warriors in the classic cartoons. The big bad final boss of a game isn't going to come across as all that threatening if he struggles to defeat a dim-witted talking dog. Personally I have more of a problem with how weak guest party members got since many of them are characters that are portrayed as action heroes in their films. I would expect guys like Beast, Peter Pan, or Mulan to put up a decent fight on their own, especially since they're special occasion allies & not a permanent part of the core gameplay so they should be allowed to be game-breaking to an extent. Heck, even Auron & Riku were as useless as the rest.

The other problem is that KH is an ARPG with the player controls a single character. If it were a game like FF where the player had direct control over the entire party, then said party would be more balanced. In fact we see an example of this in Coded's Olympus Coliseum, where although Cloud & Herc didn't have command decks of their own, they were still strong enough to matter. FF15 seems to be trying out a compromise where the player can switch between party members. Maybe that's something they can bring over to KH3.
 

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Maybe that's something they can bring over to KH3.

I don't think so, the tone I got when they said they were working on Donald's and Goofy's AI were as if they were going to let party members be uncontrollable. Other than that, I've got a serious question: has a party member ACTUALLY killed an enemy in any of the games? I'm having a REEEALLY hard time remembering, lol.
 

Solo

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Other than that, I've got a serious question: has a party member ACTUALLY killed an enemy in any of the games? I'm having a REEEALLY hard time remembering, lol.

If by "enemy" you meant normal Heartless, then yeah, they have. In KH1 Donald has demonstrated his usefulness to me by striking down a horde of Heartless with a single casting of Thundaga, and Goofy has done wonders in taking out Large Bodies head-on from the front with his abilities.

In KH2, I... can't remember. It's been a good while since I last played it, and I probably wouldn't again before 2.5 has been released.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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In kh2 Donald and Goofy are capable of finishing off Heartless and Nobodies, but only Sora can end boss fights.
 

Sorakh212

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Yeah I've seen problems like this in not only KH games but many others as well. Shooters, RPG's, and even Action Adventure sometimes. Most AI's tend to be useless when it comes to team fights and what not. I think gaming as a whole though has gotten a lot better. I just hate it especially on harder difficulties when you can't really rely on them that much. I mean Donald is good for healing sometimes and if you're lucky one of Goofy's attacks might do a decent amount of damage, but they die so much it's really hard to compare. I really hope the AI get improved in KH3 with help from next gen tech especially for higher difficulties.
 

Solo

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I don't know. I feel that the limitations of the AI actually encouraged me to be bold in my approach, not just leaving it for Donald and Goofy to get their hands dirty for me while I run around trying to stall the enemy. Truth be told, I relied on them less in KH2 than I did in KH1, preferring to just go all-out myself.
 

Gram

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I never really minded their stats or AI outside kh2. (since kh2 was overly easy) Though I'd like to see them given improvements in kh3 so that they at least dont die so fast.
 

kupo1121

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Honestly, I do understand why they aren't too strong (to avoid having the player do what I did during Ursula II in KH1, run around while they do all the damage) but at the same time, they are more like aesthetic pieces now because they do absolutely no damage. I do agree that it kind of irked me when Sora was doing way more damage physically than Beast, Herc, etc. I know he's a keyblade wielder and all, but that just does not make sense that he's stronger (by a substantial amount) then the son of a god.

Either way, I don't see them changing too much, but I liked the way they're going with AI in DDD, that's at least good.
 

XIII RoXaS XIII

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For me i don't think that Donald and Goofy were meant to be damage but for support in general, especially early game; whether it be Donalds cure or Goofy's MP gift. Understandably though abilities equipped to them that enhance their abilities such as berserk and boosts are pretty well useless thats why i myself normally customize Donald and Goofys abilities so they use their MP for supporting purposes rather that straight out offence. Attacks for Goofy that consume MP i will usually have off or have him perform them rarely.

Though with KH3 over the horizon i'm sure square will learn for their mistakes and give us a much better battling experience

In kh2 Donald and Goofy are capable of finishing off Heartless and Nobodies, but only Sora can end boss fights.

That reminds me of the first time i took on Sephiroth in KH2 and i got him to 1 hp to find i had berserk equipped with like 5 combo pluses took me another 5 minutes of dodging meteors before finally landing a full combo, why combo master were you just in the final mix. T.T
 

kupo1121

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Honestly, I think I remember someone else saying this in a past thread, but the idea of Donald and Goofy should really get to learn abilities that Sora can never learn that are really viable (Donald could learn some stat spells or stuff while Goofy...I'm not sure, but something) would help them stay viable. Since that way, even if they didn't do much damage, for some bosses or enemies, they'd be a necessity given they have spells that could greatly change the tide that Sora can't do. Just a thought...
 

Theart

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Honestly, I think I remember someone else saying this in a past thread, but the idea of Donald and Goofy should really get to learn abilities that Sora can never learn that are really viable (Donald could learn some stat spells or stuff while Goofy...I'm not sure, but something) would help them stay viable. Since that way, even if they didn't do much damage, for some bosses or enemies, they'd be a necessity given they have spells that could greatly change the tide that Sora can't do. Just a thought...

I think I've heard similar ideas expressed over the past few years, and I personally would love to see this happen in KH3. The concept could even be expanded on by also giving the world exclusive companions their own viable and exclusive abilities that could come in handy in their particular world; but at the same time, also require the players to seriously think about who they want in their party. For whatever party they select, they should have various and unique advantages/disadvantages.
 

Antar

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I think I've heard similar ideas expressed over the past few years, and I personally would love to see this happen in KH3. The concept could even be expanded on by also giving the world exclusive companions their own viable and exclusive abilities that could come in handy in their particular world; but at the same time, also require the players to seriously think about who they want in their party. For whatever party they select, they should have various and unique advantages/disadvantages.

Yeah, that's a great idea and way to make party members useful. A good variety of abilities would also be really cool, so instead of having Goofy increase the Defense stat, it could reduce damage by projectiles by half. Unique abilities like that would add more strategy and make you think about who to choose for certain battles.
 

Gram

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Honestly, I think I remember someone else saying this in a past thread, but the idea of Donald and Goofy should really get to learn abilities that Sora can never learn that are really viable (Donald could learn some stat spells or stuff while Goofy...I'm not sure, but something) would help them stay viable. Since that way, even if they didn't do much damage, for some bosses or enemies, they'd be a necessity given they have spells that could greatly change the tide that Sora can't do. Just a thought...

This is a really grand idea. Give Donald some distinguished spells and some higher level ones that sora could never do, like za level.
As for Goofy they could always give him unique abilities right?
 

Solo

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This is a really grand idea. Give Donald some distinguished spells and some higher level ones that sora could never do, like za level.
As for Goofy they could always give him unique abilities right?

Yeah, just like how it was discussed in that thread about Donald. Seriously, that needs to happen... how could Sora have rivalled the magical prowess of someone who trained under Merlin himself?

As for Goofy, perhaps he could also shoot his shield around a la Strike Raid? Or you know, since he's a defender and all, his abilities can be expanded to include all-out-defence kind of skills. There's still much room.
 

Gram

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Yeah, just like how it was discussed in that thread about Donald. Seriously, that needs to happen... how could Sora have rivalled the magical prowess of someone who trained under Merlin himself?

As for Goofy, perhaps he could also shoot his shield around a la Strike Raid? Or you know, since he's a defender and all, his abilities can be expanded to include all-out-defence kind of skills. There's still much room.
Exactly! Sora having magic spells equal to Donald as early as kh1 is kinda off to me since Donald has trained for who knows how long.

They could expand his defensive abilities, perhaps making his defensive skills the backbone of the party so to speak?
 

Sephiroth0812

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For Goofy, something like the "Cover"-ability could be a nice idea since I think no one of Sora's allies and friends has this so far.
This ability would allow Goofy to ocassionally protect an ally (Sora or Donald, or whoever is with Goofy in the same party) by warping in front of the person in question and deflect an attack against them with his shield.

Like his actions in Hollow Bastion in KH 1 when he protected Sora from Riku's Dark Firaga, only integrated into gameplay.
 
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