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Ballad of Caius

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The other day I was lost in thought, pondering lots of things. One of them was “how would a hypothetical KINGDOM HEARTS III, without the existence of Days, Birth by Sleep, DDD, coded and KHx function?”. I was wondering this myself, and decided to try and answer this question.

One of the obvious differences would be the characters. Through the Secret Ansem Reports we learned that, after you banish the Heartless and Nobody of an individual, there’s a possibility that person can return as a whole person (or as a “Somebody”, as we used to call them back in the day). With this in mind, we knew that Ansem’s apprentice, Apprentice Xehanort, was going to make a comeback in the imminent KHIII because we banished his Hearltess, Ansem Seeker of Darkness, and his Nobody, Xemnas. It is to my belief that, if Xehanort would have returned as the simple individual that challenged his master’s orders, the series’ narrative would have concluded very simplistically. It would have been a third game of “the hero Vs. the villain”.

Which is why Birth by Sleep introduced Terra, Aqua, Ventus, Eraqus, Vanitas and Master Xehanort. To expand the series’ lore. After those games, we learned Xehanort’s true identity: a Keyblade Master possessing a younger body in order to live on and utilize the power of the xblade and Kingdom Hearts. But he failed. Terra stabbed himself to try and separate Xehanort’s heart from his body, but ended up locking both their memories, and creating an amnesiac Terra-Xehanort, giving birth to the persona of “Apprentice Xehanort”. BBS also ended tragically. Aqua stuck in the Realm of Darkness, a comatosed Ventus, and Eraqus dead, but living on in Terra’s heart.

Now KH3’s tension changes from “hero Vs. bad guy”, to rescuing those that are in need of our saving, to mend the suffering of the hurt.

This brings me to Days. Even though Days was utilized as a means to develop the relationship between Axel and Roxas, it also introduced the character Xion. Days adds to KH3’s tension the fact that Sora now has to rescue both his Nobody and a replica of himself, for both deserve a chance in existing after all they’ve been through.

As to coded, with the ReMix II.5 new ending, it means that the Datascape will play a key role in KH3, and will make Maleficent and Pete relevant again.

DDD is the obvious tip of the iceberg. It revealed Master Xehanort’s true intentions behind the Organization: to gather thirteen worthy vessels for him to divide his heart to in order to fulfill the prophecy surrounding the xblade: on that land where Seven Guardians of Light and Thirteen Seekers of Darkness shall wage war and summon the xblade. He will try to do this by utilizing his time traveling powers.

As for KHx, we’ve yet to see how it will relate to the present time tension, but as the other games have done, it will definitely add to the general story.

---

In conclusion, we can say that the games before KH3 have diversified the plot. I personally think this has transformed the series’ narrative into something less simplistic.

But what about you? What are your thoughts? Should we have skipped from 2 to 3, or do you like how the series’ story has been managed?
 

gosoxtim

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i think from going 2 to 3 without the other titles would of made this series boring by having the other titles it help up us think of theories and guesses
 

Ballad of Caius

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i think from going 2 to 3 without the other titles would of made this series boring

Precisely my conclusion. xD Good to know I wasn't the only one that got this. The other games have made the series' grand finale even more meaningful. We aren't just fighting the reborn Xehanort; we're fighting someone that forcefully possessed the body of an individual and almost killed his friends in the process. He's also manipulating twelve other people in order to destroy the world just to see what lies after its destruction, and amass whatever is left in order to create a world according to his image.
 

Oathkeyper97

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I personally love complicated plots that have a lot of substance to them, so I love that the series has so many entries. It means you have to really analyze the entire story, which I enjoy doing. It's one of the main reasons why the KH series is my favorite game franchise. Not to mention, if the finale to the saga came right after KH2, then KH2 itself would have to be substantially different. There are multiple references to the future installments (like Xigbar mentioning other Keyblade wielders), so going from 2 to 3 would make it even more simplistic.

Some people don't like complicated plots, which I can sort of understand. Though it's kind of frustrating when people chalk up the plot to "convoluted and can't be understood" as if it doesn't make sense and is full of holes. Which isn't true; of course it can be understood, you just have to use the meat computer in your skull to piece it all together.

So yeah, in my mind, a more complicated story means a better story as long as it can be followed and pieced to together.
 

KeybladeOrder

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I personally love complicated plots that have a lot of substance to them, so I love that the series has so many entries. It means you have to really analyze the entire story, which I enjoy doing. It's one of the main reasons why the KH series is my favorite game franchise. Not to mention, if the finale to the saga came right after KH2, then KH2 itself would have to be substantially different. There are multiple references to the future installments (like Xigbar mentioning other Keyblade wielders), so going from 2 to 3 would make it even more simplistic.

Some people don't like complicated plots, which I can sort of understand. Though it's kind of frustrating when people chalk up the plot to "convoluted and can't be understood" as if it doesn't make sense and is full of holes. Which isn't true; of course it can be understood, you just have to use the meat computer in your skull to piece it all together.

So yeah, in my mind, a more complicated story means a better story as long as it can be followed and pieced to together.

Definitely. Adding more impact and meaning to the narrative and giving people more room to speculate on. I agree that not everyone enjoys complicated plots that require you to actually think about how everything fits together, but to me that's one of the series' strongest points: despite all the retcons and expansions of the lore, everything is still internally consistent (see TV Tropes' Fridge Brilliance section of it's Kingdom Hearts page for proof) and makes sense. It might be a bit confusing on the first play through, but after thinking things through and putting the pieces together in your head, it all fits together.
 

HakaishinChampa

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So the main Characters of Kingdom Hearts 3 would've been - Sora, Riku, Kairi, Roxas (somehow got seperated from Sora), Some Blue Haired Chick, that random guy with the Brown hair who was that guy that fought you in KH2FM that somehow gets Golden/Yellow Eyes.

(and mickey)

Back then that's what everyone thought KH3 was going to be. Anyone who goes from KH1 to KH2 and then KH3 is going to be confused on who everyone is, no context at all.

What would've KH1 to KH2 have been like?
 

kirabook

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While I do feel some of the story could have been condensed and plotted out better, going straight from KH2 to KH3 would have been... boring. What is there to solve after KH2? Sora thinks his mission is done. I guess Mickey's letter could have said, "Hey! Xehanort is back for one final battle and messing up the worlds! Let's finish him!" but what about all the hints and stuff they stuffed into KH2 never to be solved??

Can you imagine some of the cutscenes in KH2 never being addressed? Like Xigbar's "THEY WERE BETTA THAN YOU", Xemnas talking to some junk on the floor calling it his "friend". The entire secret ending of the scary bald dude wrecking these peoples lives with a midget sidekick.

Heck, if it had just been Birth by Sleep inbetween KH2 and KH3, I think just that would have been enough imo. DDD was... ok. I don't hate the game, I just feel like it added more complications, and not the good kind. Days, I think its relevance has yet to come, but it might or could have been more relevant if Xehanort had successful replicas like Xion in his Xehanort party. The entire point of Coded could have been placed in a different game, but at the same time, it could be relevant if the whole data thing and worlds existing in books like Jiminy's Journal is a plot point like we think it might be (could still fit into another game)

All in all, I love KH's complicated plot. It's fun to piece things together and speculate. There are some things I call bullcrap on, but then there are some plot points that really aren't complicated at all but people refuse to really take a look and piece simple things together.
 

Zettaflare

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I think it could have worked. You could just have Sora deal with a new foe. Kh2 more or less wrapped up all the loose ends before the side games
 

Ballad of Caius

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I personally love complicated plots that have a lot of substance to them, so I love that the series has so many entries. It means you have to really analyze the entire story, which I enjoy doing. It's one of the main reasons why the KH series is my favorite game franchise. Not to mention, if the finale to the saga came right after KH2, then KH2 itself would have to be substantially different. There are multiple references to the future installments (like Xigbar mentioning other Keyblade wielders), so going from 2 to 3 would make it even more simplistic.

Some people don't like complicated plots, which I can sort of understand. Though it's kind of frustrating when people chalk up the plot to "convoluted and can't be understood" as if it doesn't make sense and is full of holes. Which isn't true; of course it can be understood, you just have to use the meat computer in your skull to piece it all together.

So yeah, in my mind, a more complicated story means a better story as long as it can be followed and pieced to together.
I think KH was hard to understand because its entries were in multiple devices before they finally centered everything on PS3 and now PS4. But yeah, I like complicated stories. They always have a punch anywhere in 'em. Which is why am I fan of "the Mentalist" and "Detective Conan". xD

Definitely. Adding more impact and meaning to the narrative and giving people more room to speculate on. I agree that not everyone enjoys complicated plots that require you to actually think about how everything fits together, but to me that's one of the series' strongest points: despite all the retcons and expansions of the lore, everything is still internally consistent (see TV Tropes' Fridge Brilliance section of it's Kingdom Hearts page for proof) and makes sense. It might be a bit confusing on the first play through, but after thinking things through and putting the pieces together in your head, it all fits together.
Which is also why I love the Reports in the Journal. They aren't used as scapegoats to better explain something instead of creating a cutscene for it, but rather something that adds to the lore of the plot. We knew years ago that Master Xehanort was returning, and that some Nobodies possibly had hearts in them, but it was never confirmed solid in the games, until coded and DDD came.

So the main Characters of Kingdom Hearts 3 would've been - Sora, Riku, Kairi, Roxas (somehow got seperated from Sora), Some Blue Haired Chick, that random guy with the Brown hair who was that guy that fought you in KH2FM that somehow gets Golden/Yellow Eyes.

(and mickey)

Back then that's what everyone thought KH3 was going to be. Anyone who goes from KH1 to KH2 and then KH3 is going to be confused on who everyone is, no context at all.

What would've KH1 to KH2 have been like?
Another issue if we had jumped directly: pacing. TAV wouldn't have had enough time to flesh out and develop as characters.

While I do feel some of the story could have been condensed and plotted out better, going straight from KH2 to KH3 would have been... boring. What is there to solve after KH2? Sora thinks his mission is done. I guess Mickey's letter could have said, "Hey! Xehanort is back for one final battle and messing up the worlds! Let's finish him!" but what about all the hints and stuff they stuffed into KH2 never to be solved??

Can you imagine some of the cutscenes in KH2 never being addressed? Like Xigbar's "THEY WERE BETTA THAN YOU", Xemnas talking to some junk on the floor calling it his "friend". The entire secret ending of the scary bald dude wrecking these peoples lives with a midget sidekick.

Heck, if it had just been Birth by Sleep inbetween KH2 and KH3, I think just that would have been enough imo. DDD was... ok. I don't hate the game, I just feel like it added more complications, and not the good kind. Days, I think its relevance has yet to come, but it might or could have been more relevant if Xehanort had successful replicas like Xion in his Xehanort party. The entire point of Coded could have been placed in a different game, but at the same time, it could be relevant if the whole data thing and worlds existing in books like Jiminy's Journal is a plot point like we think it might be (could still fit into another game)

All in all, I love KH's complicated plot. It's fun to piece things together and speculate. There are some things I call bullcrap on, but then there are some plot points that really aren't complicated at all but people refuse to really take a look and piece simple things together.
I agree with you. We could have streamlined directly into III after BBS.

I think it could have worked. You could just have Sora deal with a new foe. Kh2 more or less wrapped up all the loose ends before the side games
Hmm... Not necessarily. Like fellow members stated, Xigbar's reference to TAV would have gone unattended. Unless, of course, they only decided to address that lightly in KHIII. Other than that, I'm sure Sora could have just battled against the six founding members of the Organization. It would have been a chance of pace. The first game was against a Heartless; the second towards a Nobody; and it's now against a human.
 

KeybladeOrder

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Hmm... Not necessarily. Like fellow members stated, Xigbar's reference to TAV would have gone unattended. Unless, of course, they only decided to address that lightly in KHIII. Other than that, I'm sure Sora could have just battled against the six founding members of the Organization. It would have been a chance of pace. The first game was against a Heartless; the second towards a Nobody; and it's now against a human.

Great idea! That's got some potential as a story idea for future games in the franchise after the conclusion of the Xehanort Saga.
 

Zettaflare

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You could just dismiss Xigbar's comment as just referring to ancient keyblade wielders from hundred of years ago. Even before BBS I always had a feeling that there wet wielders long before Sora or Riku.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Great idea! That's got some potential as a story idea for future games in the franchise after the conclusion of the Xehanort Saga.
If KH3 doesn't settle the KHx era characters, then I think we can expect the Foretellers, or other wielders, to be the main oppossing force in KH4 and beyond.
You could just dismiss Xigbar's comment as just referring to ancient keyblade wielders from hundred of years ago. Even before BBS I always had a feeling that there wet wielders long before Sora or Riku.

Yeah. You have a point. Hell, I even think it was said that other wielders were in the present time of KH1.
 

gosoxtim

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You could just dismiss Xigbar's comment as just referring to ancient keyblade wielders from hundred of years ago. Even before BBS I always had a feeling that there wet wielders long before Sora or Riku.
but xigbar/braig wasn't even alive to know about the ancient keyblade wielders
 

Ballad of Caius

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Who said he had to be alive? The stories could have just been passed down generation to generation.

Yeah. And the KH2 secret ending looked like it transpired a lot of years ago, and it was only 10 years before the first game.
 

gosoxtim

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i dont know if they did just kh2 to 3 it would been boring in my opinion
 

Nazo

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Going straight from 2 to 3 would have been boring, yes. BBS is, in my opinion, necessary for the plot of the series as it explains so much of the backdrop for what occurs in the other games.

Honestly, we could have entirely done without Days. Sure it expands the characters of Roxas and Axel, but not by much. The entire initial appeal of Days was that it would show us Roxas' backstory, give us an inside look into the politics of Organization XIII, and even show us what characters like Riku and Mickey did between CoM and KH2. While it certainly delivered on that last point, most of the important aspects of Roxas' backstory were added in as cutscenes in KH2FM, and they didn't do much with the concept of a game themed around Organization XIII. Days had a lot of potential to add some character depth, and expand upon the preexisting lore, but instead we get lots of eating ice cream and small talk. Remove Days from the series and you don't lose much. Xion, while I love her and she's great and has one of the greatest character themes ever created, doesn't add anything of true importance to the plot.

Coded, while my least favorite, does have parts in it that are necessary for the advancement of the plot, namely in getting the main characters to realize that they need to save everyone who's suffering. But honestly, they could have easily found a way to take that aspect of Coded and make it the intro to DDD. Find some convoluted way to have Jiminy have sudden flashbacks of CoM while looking at the "Thank Namine" message from his KH1/CoM journal which makes him connect hearts with Namine or something like that. And then he brings the journal to Mickey, Mickey talks to Namine as well, Mickey writes the letter to Sora, boom. Primary objective of Coded completed in a single prologue cutscene. With as much as this series just makes up the rules of its universe on a whim, Jiminy making contact with Namine through memories triggered by reading his Journal really isn't all that farfetched.

And then DDD is basically KH3 but without the name, since it's a straight up sequel to KH2 where you play as Sora and Riku, so it's obviously necessary.

The plot of KH is actually my favorite aspect about the series and I love how multi-layered and complex it is. If I had the option to either destroy all the portable titles and jump straight to KH3, or leave KH exactly the way it is, I would leave it exactly how it is. As much as this is a contradiction, Kingdom Hearts is perfect even though it's very flawed. There's so many ways the plot could have been improved and fleshed out and so many unnecessary complications and shit, but at the end of the day, I love it and I wouldn't change it.
 
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KeybladeOrder

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Going straight from 2 to 3 would have been boring, yes. BBS is, in my opinion, necessary for the plot of the series as it explains so much of the backdrop for what occurs in the other games.

Honestly, we could have entirely done without Days. Sure it expands the characters of Roxas and Axel, but not by much. The entire initial appeal of Days was that it would show us Roxas' backstory, give us an inside look into the politics of Organization XIII, and even show us what characters like Riku and Mickey did between CoM and KH2. While it certainly delivered on that last point, most of the important aspects of Roxas' backstory were added in as cutscenes in KH2FM, and they didn't do much with the concept of a game themed around Organization XIII. Days had a lot of potential to add some character depth, and expand upon the preexisting lore, but instead we get lots of eating ice cream and small talk. Remove Days from the series and you don't lose much. Xion, while I love her and she's great and has one of the greatest character themes ever created, doesn't add anything of true importance to the plot.

Coded, while my least favorite, does have parts in it that are necessary for the advancement of the plot, namely in getting the main characters to realize that they need to save everyone who's suffering. But honestly, they could have easily found a way to take that aspect of Coded and make it the intro to DDD. Find some convoluted way to have Jiminy have sudden flashbacks of CoM while looking at the "Thank Namine" message from his KH1/CoM journal which makes him connect hearts with Namine or something like that. And then he brings the journal to Mickey, Mickey talks to Namine as well, Mickey writes the letter to Sora, boom. Primary objective of Coded completed in a single prologue cutscene. With as much as this series just makes up the rules of its universe on a whim, Jiminy making contact with Namine through memories triggered by reading his Journal really isn't all that farfetched.

And then DDD is basically KH3 but without the name, since it's a straight up sequel to KH2 where you play as Sora and Riku, so it's obviously necessary.

The plot of KH is actually my favorite aspect about the series and I love how multi-layered and complex it is. If I had the option to either destroy all the portable titles and jump straight to KH3, or leave KH exactly the way it is, I would leave it exactly how it is. As much as this is a contradiction, Kingdom Hearts is perfect even though it's very flawed. There's so many ways the plot could have been improved and fleshed out and so many unnecessary complications and shit, but at the end of the day, I love it and I wouldn't change it.

Same here. While I would have loved to have more development of the Organization in Days, I'm satisfied with the way things turned out and wouldn't change a thing.
 
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