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For those who believe in miracles of God.



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Bliip

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If you did, that previous post would look different, especially since she applied the scientific method. Science loves to be proven wrong, now that is open minded, ignoring facts isn't.
Do you have facts that prove God isn't real?
 

Donna da Ragione

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There's the problem. Just because there's no reasonable proof of Him, you refuse to think of Him as a possibility. That is close-mindedness.

No, close-mindedness would be rejecting the idea outright. I have thought about it deeply and have reached a conclusion.

I never said "There is definitely a God out there", I said I believe there is.

Again with the irony. I never said God definitely does not exist.

I've taken into account the possibility of Scientology, and have based my personal belief around what I think.

Then you nowhere near open-minded. You have not accounted for the thousands (if not millions) of other beliefs. And that's just within current human thought, there are an infinite amount of possibilities, as I have said.
 

very differentiable
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I don't have to prove anything, the burden of proof is on the people claiming a deity exists. Before there were humans, the thought of a deity didn't exist either. Since this was the case, that is the default position and unless proven wrong, we must assume the default position. That is how science is applied, not the other way around.

I seriously considered a god, and as a kid it was a soothing thought. When i doubted i tried my hardest to find any indication of the existence of a god, i even tried to provoke a reaction, but with all his ascribed ominpotience he wouldn't appear or talk to me. That closed the book, untill new evidence pops up in favor of a god.
 

Bliip

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No, close-mindedness would be rejecting the idea outright. I have thought about it deeply and have reached a conclusion.
Which is exactly what I have done too.



Again with the irony. I never said God definitely does not exist.
And I never said he definitely does. Besides, that's not ironic...



Then you nowhere near open-minded. You have not accounted for the thousands (if not millions) of other beliefs. And that's just within current human thought, there are an infinite amount of possibilities, as I have said.
Yes I have. And I believe I was the one who said that there was an infinite anount of possiblities...


I don't have to prove anything, the burden of proof is on the people claiming a deity exists. Before there were humans, the thought of a deity didn't exist either. Since this was the case, that is the default position and unless proven wrong, we must assume the default position. That is how science is applied, not the other way around.
The position you just took was called "Defensive". Saying you don't have to prove anything is merely showing your insecurities on the subject.

I seriously considered a god, and as a kid it was a soothing thought. When i doubted i tried my hardest to find any indication of the existence of a god, i even tried to provoke a reaction, but with all his ascribed ominpotience he wouldn't appear or talk to me. That closed the book, untill new evidence pops up in favor of a god.
So just because he wouldn't show Himself to you, that made you not believe in Him?
 

very differentiable
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The position you just took was called "Defensive". Saying you don't have to prove anything is merely showing your insecurities on the subject.

Insecurities, what a bunch of bull, i don't have to prove anything to someone who is extremely biased (can't deny that) and refuses the scientific method. Maybe you should just admit that you don't accept science since it hasn't really helped your point, i would at least respect that.


So just because he wouldn't show Himself to you, that made you not believe in Him?

If a god is omnnipotient he could've easily done that, it isn't that big of a request like asking if he would personally help me with something, like i've seen or heard most christians do anyway.
 

Bliip

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Insecurities, what a bunch of bull, i don't have to prove anything to someone who is extremely biased (can't deny that) and refuses the scientific method. Maybe you should just admit that you don't accept science since it hasn't really helped your point, i would at least respect that.
I'm not biased, I believe what i feel is right. I have my point, and you have yours.

If a god is omnnipotient he could've easily done that, it isn't that big of a request like asking if he would personally help me with something, like i've seen or heard most christians do anyway.
You really think God comes down and helps people with day-to-day things? As it was said earlier in this thread, He gives us a choice to believe or not. If he came down to help everyone, there would be no such thing as 'religion', and we wouldn't be sitting here talking about it.
 

Donna da Ragione

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Which is exactly what I have done too.

Not really.

And I never said he definitely does. Besides, that's not ironic...

You have basically claimed that I have said "God does not exist" which is false. You don't seem to comprehend.

Yes I have. And I believe I was the one who said that there was an infinite anount of possiblities...

You originally said:
"But it doesn't matter. If someone believes in God, and they end up being right, they shall be rewarded. If someone doesn't, and they end up being wrong, they'll never know what it could have been like. Even if us Christians are wrong, i'd rather live my life believeing there's a light at the end of the tunnel"

This requires you to shut out all other possibilities. And Scientology is NOT the only alternative to Christianity, far from it.

I was the first to say there are an infinite amount of possibilities, in post #26.
 

very differentiable
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I'm not biased, I believe what i feel is right. I have my point, and you have yours.

You really think God comes down and helps people with day-to-day things? As it was said earlier in this thread, He gives us a choice to believe or not. If he came down to help everyone, there would be no such thing as 'religion', and we wouldn't be sitting here talking about it.

Look, i'll make you a deal, tell me exactly what made you believe, i'll look at it. And please, don't bring in the bible, because i reviewed it myself already and you won't like my answer. And i am always told how god loves everyone and wants everyone on his team, i haven't really experienced it, i don't care about choice, i care about truth, that is my choice. If i need a personal meeting to be convinced, so be it, that's a reasonable proposition. If i need objective evidence, i think i have a reasonable demand that can easily be fulfilled.
 

Donna da Ragione

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Atticus said:
You really think God comes down and helps people with day-to-day things?

So you don't believe in miracles?

As it was said earlier in this thread, He gives us a choice to believe or not.

And as I have said, the choice is an illusion.

If he came down to help everyone, there would be no such thing as 'religion', and we wouldn't be sitting here talking about it.

If he wants everyone to be "saved", why not?
 

Bliip

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Not really.
Yes. Really.


You have basically claimed that I have said "God does not exist" which is false. You don't seem to comprehend.
I never said you said that. And I do comprehend.


And Scientology is NOT the only alternative to Christianity, far from it.
I never said it WAS. You seem to be making up a lot of my quotes.


Look, i'll make you a deal, tell me exactly what made you believe, i'll look at it. And please, don't bring in the bible, because i reviewed it myself already and you won't like my answer. And i am always told how god loves everyone and wants everyone on his team, i haven't really experienced it, i don't care about choice, i care about truth, that is my choice. If i need a personal meeting to be convinced, so be it, that's a reasonable proposition. If i need objective evidence, i think i have a reasonable demand that can easily be fulfilled.
And I respect you for that. And I didn't learn from the bible, i've barely read anything from it. I believe because I have had at least 5 family members saved from the brink of death, for no explainable cause whatsoever. That is why I believe.

So you don't believe in miracles?
I don't believe he comes and helps you with your homework. Miracles aren't "day-to-day".

And as I have said, the choice is an illusion.
But that's simply your opinion. You have no 'scientific data' to back that up.

If he wants everyone to be "saved", why not?
God built us in His image. Humans can be mean, lazy, etc... meaning God can be too.

But none of this matters. No one's going to be persuaded to switch today, so we should all probably just stop this whole thing.
 

Donna da Ragione

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Atticus said:
I never said you said that. And I do comprehend.

You are backpedaling quite a lot. I suggest you reread your posts.

You seem to be making up a lot of my quotes.

Don't blame me for you not being clear. You only said Scientology.

I have had at least 5 family members saved from the brink of death, for no explainable cause whatsoever.

I highly doubt there was no explanation. Could you give more detail?

Miracles aren't "day-to-day".

What is your definition, then?

But that's simply your opinion. You have no 'scientific data' to back that up.

I could list the factors that make up the life and the choices of people. There's also what I've already stated in this thread.

God built us in His image. Humans can be mean, lazy, etc... meaning God can be too.

So you don't think God is loving?
 

Zipporahss

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In the sense of this thread, if it's not divinely made, it's not a miracle. I do understand your reasoning, though.



I'm not really talking about good things, more so things cited as divine.



What you said was Pascal's Wager, and it has been debunked many, many times.



Irony in its purest form.


Divine? What do you mean by that exactly?
 

Donna da Ragione

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Besides what I have stated previously, and the accuracy of the Bible:
-Just because the Bible has "survived" approximately 2000 years does not mean that its integrity is sound or it is of divine creation.
-There is no overwhelming evidence for John 19:33-34 that makes it factual.
 

very differentiable
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And I respect you for that. And I didn't learn from the bible, i've barely read anything from it. I believe because I have had at least 5 family members saved from the brink of death, for no explainable cause whatsoever. That is why I believe.

Well, did the doctors tell you that there was nothing that could be done?
 

Phoenix

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And I respect you for that. And I didn't learn from the bible, i've barely read anything from it. I believe because I have had at least 5 family members saved from the brink of death, for no explainable cause whatsoever. That is why I believe.

A guy won the lottery today. It must be a miracle!

Just because something doesn't happen often doesn't make it divine when it does.
 

Forever Atlas

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Besides what I have stated previously, and the accuracy of the Bible:
-Just because the Bible has "survived" approximately 2000 years does not mean that its integrity is sound or it is of divine creation.

It doesn't mean it is not true either.

-There is no overwhelming evidence for John 19:33-34 that makes it factual.

That's just about Jesus' death. ???? <.<

Not following your statement here. If you are speaking of the box. That was on a side note speaking about if Jesus was dead or not at the time when he was jabbed in the side when upon the torture stake.
 
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