For those who believe in miracles of God.

[Forever Atlas]

Que Forever Atlas

I'd rather not get into this one due to the fact that this debate has pretty much been done (several times) before and neither side is going to benefit from anything being said this time around any more than the other times.


Edit: But I will link you up to an article I just looked up about past and present day miracles. The article touches on how people around the world view miracles. Gives the view of those who do believe in miracles all the way even up to today and the view of those who do not believe in miracles at all. Still it goes on to talk about those who do believe in miracles up to an extent and why. Up to you to read it or not. Might help with your "discussion." =p

Miracles--Fact or Fiction?

At the bottom of each page there are white arrows to navigate to the next pages in the articles or links on the left side of the page to go to the next part of the article.

As a matter of fact, one of the first quotes in the article pretty much sums up why I'm not getting into this one too much -

Miracle is a word that immediately polarizes readers into two warring camps. - Manfred Barthel

 

[Donna da Ragione]

The article has a lot of false things in it, but it does pretty much say that miracles outside of the Bible do not occur. It goes on to say that the human body, the moon, and the sun are miracles, but they are as much as lightning is. Lack of understanding does not indicate the divine. The site also attributes the psychological to God, which most religions do, but it's false.

 

[Bliip]

All things have a rational explanation.

That is a very close-minded way of thinking.

Lack of understanding does not indicate the divine.

Neither does it do the opposite.

But it doesn't matter. If someone believes in God, and they end up being right, they shall be rewarded. If someone doesn't, and they end up being wrong, they'll never know what it could have been like. Even if us Christians are wrong, i'd rather live my life believeing there's a light at the end of the tunnel, rather than there being nothing.

 

[Zipporahss]

Why would God make miracles for some people who are well-off and not others who are in desperate need?

If God does not intercede to help those that suffer, how can he make miracles?

Well, The Bible says that

we shouldn't store our treasures on Earth where moth and rust destroy and where theives break in and steal but to store our treasures in Heaven where moth and rust do not destroy and where theives do not break in and steal. (Matthew 6:19-21 NIV)

And the Bible also says

Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven (Matthew 7: 21 NIV)

And the Bible also says

You shall not covet your neighbor's house. You shall not cover your neighbor's wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey or anything that belongs your neihgbor (Exodus 20:17 NIV)

And from what I've learned before I became saved is that just because someone has more than you doesn't mean that God is blessing them. A lot of times it's actually the devil or Satan giving that person those things so that they will be blinded and then they will think that they don't need God. And also from personal experience mircales are different from those that I call "Man made miracles" and what I mean by that, man would work and work and work and from thier work they get to the goal of wealth. Anyone can work and get rich and that's not a miracle by God. Not to say that every rich or well-off person didn't get rich because of God it's just that they got rich on thier own with God doing anything.

Idk, people are just too picky with words now a days. I'll just sit back and wait for the mad questions I guess

 

[▽]

Atticus, looking for a deeper cause is open-mindedness, just naming a shallow and unsupported, unexplained cause isn't. I reccomend this vid for a complete explanation: YouTube - Open-mindedness

 

[Donna da Ragione]

That is a very close-minded way of thinking.

I'm close-minded because I don't believe there's an omnipresent deity interfering in human affairs, and I choose logic, instead of strict religous doctrine? Is this topsy-turvy day?

Neither does it do the opposite.

Enough with the circular reasoning. The more we understand about things such as the human body, the more we know that it came by natural processes and was not "designed". In this way God's role is lessoned to a point where in order for anything to be divinely inspired, all creation must be.

wager de pascal

Pascal's Wager doesn't work because we don't know anything about the spiritual (we can't even properly call it that). Islam could be right, or Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etcetera etcetera. God may not even like religious people, he may prefer atheists. In order for your logic to be sound, you'd have to believe and practice everything possible (infinite amount) at once, which is impossible.

 

[Iwrestledabearonce]

Ever consider that God doesn't play a part in miracles?

My idea (though I surely didn't make it up), is that if there is a God, that perhaps he treats us as a movie, per se. Where he doesn't interfere; he just watches us. He pretty much made us, and said "Okay, guys. I'm watching. Give me a show."

So all those good things, and bad things that happen in the world? It's not God either way. It's us.

 

[Bliip]

Ever consider that God doesn't play a part in miracles?

My idea (though I surely didn't make it up), is that if there is a God, that perhaps he treats us as a movie, per se. Where he doesn't interfere; he just watches us. He pretty much made us, and said "Okay, guys. I'm watching. Give me a show."

So all those good things, and bad things that happen in the world? It's not God either way. It's us.

This...i actually agree with. Not everything in the world is created by us, and not everything is created by God. We are given a choice to believe or not to believe.

Besides, I can't help but notice that I wasn't quoted on the whole "I'd rather" speech I gave...

Atticus, looking for a deeper cause is open-mindedness, just naming a shallow and unsupported, unexplained cause isn't. I reccomend this vid for a complete explanation: YouTube - Open-mindedness

No thanks.

 

[Donna da Ragione]

Ever consider that God doesn't play a part in miracles?

In the sense of this thread, if it's not divinely made, it's not a miracle. I do understand your reasoning, though.

post

I'm not really talking about good things, more so things cited as divine.

I can't help but notice that I wasn't quoted on the whole "I'd rather" speech I gave...

What you said was Pascal's Wager, and it has been debunked many, many times.

No thanks.

Irony in its purest form.

 

[Bliip]

Irony in its purest form.

It's ironic that I don't want to change my views on God, just as you don't? hmm...

 

[▽]

No thanks.

Are you afraid to find out what open mindeness really is about?

 

[Bliip]

Are you afraid to find out what open mindeness really is about?

No, i know what it's really about. It's being open to possibilities, like the possibility that there is a divine force out there.

 

[▽]

No, that's not open mindedness, since this divine viewpoint causes bias and stops further thinking. But if you haven't seen the vid, you can't claim to know.

 

[Bliip]

No, that's not open mindedness, since this divine viewpoint causes bias and stops further thinking.

No it doesn't. And yes, that is being open-minded. The possibilities for Life After Death are endless, and every one has to be taken into account.

 

[▽]

Unless you watch that vid, i see no reason to debate you, since you won't take into account what i post, how open minded of you.

 

[Donna da Ragione]

It's ironic that I don't want to change my views on God, just as you don't? hmm...

I don't change my views on God, because there is no reasonable proof of him. You attribute my views to close-mindedness, when in fact you are the one being close-minded by not allowing your views to be rationally questioned or expanded.

The possibilities for Life After Death are endless, and every one has to be taken into account.

You are completely contradicting your earlier "speech" (copy of Pascal's Wager).

 

[Bliip]

I don't change my views on God, because there is no reasonable proof of him. You attribute my views to close-mindedness, when in fact you are the one being close-minded by not allowing your views to be rationally questioned or expanded.

There's the problem. Just because there's no reasonable proof of Him, you refuse to think of Him as a possibility. That is close-mindedness. I never said "There is definitely a God out there", I said I believe there is. I've taken into account the possibility of Scientology, and have based my personal belief around what I think.

 

[▽]

And you still haven't watched the vid, judging from your last post.

 

[Bliip]

And you still haven't watched the vid, judging from your last post.

Yes I did.

 

[▽]

If you did, that previous post would look different, especially since she applied the scientific method. Science loves to be proven wrong, now that is open minded, ignoring facts isn't.