• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Finalized Version of this



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Memory Master

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,422
Awards
1
I've done it before but I yet to perfect this idea. I said before that while I hope they make me like the time travel thing in a future game (like KH3D made me like the X-Blade concept), for now I still wish they wouldn't have put it in the series, at least not in the Xehanort Saga.

But since we need a way for XH and Xemnas to exist alongside MX and NeoTerranort, I have come up with alternative methods to make this happen without using time travel. However until now I haven't been able to come up with a method that would work for both Xemnas and XH, while at the same time not creating a plot hole to where people will ask "Why couldn't MX just use this method to create other versions of himself to make the 13 Darknesses instead of going through the trouble of creating the first Organization XIII?"

Well I think now I have finally come up with a decent method. Obviously there will be some differences between the actuall KH story and my version of how I would have done things, but in traditional KH style I think you'll find my version connects some things together nicely.
---------------------------------------------------

It all begins back when MX made Vanitas. With Ven failing to be of worth as a new vessel, MX decides to use Ven for the X-Blade instead. He removes the darkness from Ven's heart and uses teh darkness to create a Replica of Ven. Thus Vanitas is born.

(I decided to make Vanitas a replica created from Ven's darkness instead, because I think his existence in BBS is a little too similar to a pureblood heartless.)

As a Replica created from pure darkness Vanitas experiences nothing but negative emotions. Though he can feel the friendship Ven has with Terra and Aqua, his existence causes him to twist that into a feeling of his own loneliness. Because of his unique existence Vanitas is able to take fragments of his own existence and give them monster form. Being only fragments of Vanitas, these monsters lack any sentience or will of their own, and as such cannot comprehend existence at all. Because of this they are called "Unversed"

(I decided instead of Unversed being just negative emotions, they would instead be fragments of Vanitas' existence. In other words they aren't just made from negative emotions, but also made from his own negative memories, and other bits and pieces of his heart. But since they lack a will of their own, they are simply puppets guided only by Vanitas' will. Now this is very important later on.)

Now we skip ahead to the battle at Keyblade Graveyard between TAV and MX and Vanitas. MX takes over Terra of course. But Terra's anger, hate, and will to stop MX and protect his friends, along with a few memories, causes Terra to create an Unversed of his own.

However this Unversed is not like the ones created by Vanitas. Terra's Unversed is able to draw strength from Kingdom Hearts above and due to the incredible powers of Kingdom Hearts, Terra's unversed has a will of it's own. As such Terra's unversed is not an extension of himself like the ones Vanitas made. Instead Terra's unversed is more like a Remnant of Terra (Similar to the Remnants of Sephiroth but not strong enough to have a physical form.) Terra's remnant takes control of his armor to gain a physical form and battles with Terranort, and we know where it goes from there.

10 years later Sora defeats XH. When hit by the light of Kingdom Hearts, XH is indeed destroyed. But thanks to the very power of KH that destroyed him, he too was able to leave behind a fragment of his existence. Just like with Terra's remnant, the remnant XH left behind also has a will of its own.

We learn in Chain of Memories the remnant of XH has taken refuge in Riku's heart. In KH2 when Ansem The Wise's machine explodes, the remnant of XH inside of Riku is expelled, but it has already grown so powerful that it is able to exist on its own.

Soon after Xemnas absorbs the remains of the artificial KH and battles Sora and Riku in the final battle of KH2. However due to having absorbed the artificial KH, Xemnas is also able to leave a fragment of his existence behind. Just like with Terra and XH before, Xemnas' remnant also has a will of its own.

The remnants of Xemnas and XH eventually grow strong enough to become a stable existence again (Unlike Terra's remnant which remains at Keyblade Graveyard). Thanks to a little help from Young Xehanort. Thus they are the Xemnas and XH we see in KH3D.
------------------------------------------------------

So to sum it up: Vanitas was able to turn fragments of his existence into monsters, but they lacked a will of their own and were like puppets guided by Vanitas' will., thus being not well versed in their own existence are called "Unversed". If someone tries to give a fragment of their existence a form, it will simply become one of these puppet like creatures that are more like extensions of yourself. If you die, then they are destroyed just like with Vanitas and his unversed.

However when Xemnas, XH, and Terra left behind fragments of their existence, they did not do so alone. They drew from the power of Kingdom Hearts, and as such the fragments they left behind were so powerful they had a will of their own. Therefore these can be called "Remnants" and as such are not particularly tied to the fate of the person they originate from but are more of their own person, and can be restored to their former glory with enough time and help as is the case with the remnants of XH and Xemnas.

In other words only by leaving behind a fragment of your existence using the power of KH in some way, can that fragment have a will of its own and become a "Remnant" instead of a puppet like extension of yourself known as an "Unversed".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for where this changes the role of Young Xehanort. Since time travel is no longer needed in this alternate scenario, Young Xehanort's role would have to change. I would instead have made him MX's first nobody that was created when he took over Terra. YMX takes on a younger apperance because MX left with YMX a fragment of his heart that contained only memories of his youth and of MX's back up plan to forge the X-Blade, which thus caused YMX to be born with a younger appearance.

While Sora and the others are distracted with XH and Xemnas, YMX is sneaking around ensuring the 13 Seekers of Darkness will be completed. Also he learns more about darkness and its connection to sleep. With this knowledge he is able to keep a few of the worlds taken by the heartless in a state of sleep. Thus leading to the events of KH3D. YMX did this for two reasons 1. So he and the replacements for 13 Darknesses in case Organization XIII failed to be of use, would have a hiding place in the dreams of the sleeping worlds where Yen Sid could not track them. 2. He was already planning to make Sora or Riku one of MX's vessels and knowing that Yen Sid being the goody two shoes that he is, would send Sora and Riku into the dream worlds to awaken the sleeping worlds, thus the dream worlds would serve as a perfect trap later on.

At the end of KH3D since the destroyed Xemnas would go to Terra's heart and become NeoTerranort, MX's heart is left without a body. With his mission of completing the 13 Seekers of Darkness nearly finished, YMX (Being MX's original body only younger now) would rejoin with MX's heart thus allowing MX to take on his younger form once again without needing Terra's body.
---------------------------------------

Oh and I just thought of this, but perhaps Vanitas could have also created a "Remnant" of himself when Ven destroyed him, since KH was there that day. This could make Vanitas' Remnant secret boss canon and lead to his possible return as well as one of the 13 Seekers of Darkness.
---------------------------------------

So again I know this is really long and i'm sorry. I never mean for these ideas to be as long as they are but it just kinda happens. And finally since I have seen confusion from some people out there, remember that alot of this is MY ALTERNATE VERSION OF THINGS, mixed in with some of the real stuff from the story.

Maybe one day i'll actually clean this up and post a more concised version so who this may not actually be the final final time you see this. But it is the finalized version of this idea.

So yeah have at it folks.
 

8298906

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
783
Location
being chocolate brown
Vanitas experiences nothing but negative emotions. Though he can feel the friendship Ven has with Terra and Aqua, his existence causes him to twist that into a feeling of his own loneliness. Because of his unique existence Vanitas is able to take fragments of his own existence and give them monster form. Being only fragments of Vanitas, these monsters lack any sentience or will of their own, and as such cannot comprehend existence at all. Because of this they are called "Unversed"

(I decided instead of Unversed being just negative emotions, they would instead be fragments of Vanitas' existence. In other words they aren't just made from negative emotions, but also made from his own negative memories, and other bits and pieces of his heart. But since they lack a will of their own, they are simply puppets guided only by Vanitas' will. Now this is very important later on.)

Dude this is already canon so this part of your idea isn't new.

I would instead have made him MX's first nobody that was created when he took over Terra.

A Nobody can't be produced without a heartless.
No heartless produced=No Nobody produced.

YMX takes on a younger apperance because MX left with YMX a fragment of his heart that contained only memories of his youth and of MX's back up plan to forge the X-Blade, which thus caused YMX to be born with a younger appearance.

A. Ok how dose installing YX with MX memories of is youth gonna make his body younger?
B. And why would MX give YX memories of his youth anyway? If anything he'll give him some of his most powerful memories which I doubt are from his younger years.
C. If MX could do this then there would've been any need to take over Terra.

YMX is sneaking around ensuring the 13 Seekers of Darkness will be completed. Also he learns more about darkness and its connection to sleep. With this knowledge he is able to keep a few of the worlds taken by the heartless in a state of sleep. Thus leading to the events of KH3D. YMX did this for two reasons 1. So he and the replacements for 13 Darknesses in case Organization XIII failed to be of use, would have a hiding place in the dreams of the sleeping worlds where Yen Sid could not track them. 2. He was already planning to make Sora or Riku one of MX's vessels and knowing that Yen Sid being the goody two shoes that he is, would send Sora and Riku into the dream worlds to awaken the sleeping worlds, thus the dream worlds would serve as a perfect trap later on.

<3

IDK I just find the remnant idea to be a bigger cop out than the time traveling method. Like if characters can leave remnants of their memories and feelings what would be the need for the purgatory like RoS? and think about characters like Roxas, Namine, and ,Xion they to would have remnants after being absorbed by Sora and Kairi. Ven gets one too. And think about it like this, if you 'kill' someone you're only just striping them of their bods. Seeing to the fact memories and feeling make up the heart basically. At least with the TT method you have to go back to your original time. With this I can keep willing you and killing you but with the power of KH you'll leave some form of yourself.
 

Memory Master

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,422
Awards
1
Dude this is already canon so this part of your idea isn't new.

It's canon that Unversed are negative emotions, but I added an extra layer to it by saying they are made from memories and other things as well, not just negative emotions.



A Nobody can't be produced without a heartless.
No heartless produced=No Nobody produced.

And i'm starting to seriously doubt that. Was it actually ever said anywhere that a heartless has to be made to create a nobody? Regardless, since I would have changed some things in the story I would have changed this as well.



A. Ok how dose installing YX with MX memories of is youth gonna make his body younger?
B. And why would MX give YX memories of his youth anyway? If anything he'll give him some of his most powerful memories which I doubt are from his younger years.
C. If MX could do this then there would've been any need to take over Terra.

A. Memories are extremely important to nobodies. If MX left a fragment of his heart with his nobody and that fragment contained only memories of his youth then it stands to reason that he would take on the younger form, since he has no memories of being old, he can only take on the form of whatever appearance he had in the memories he has. The only other memories inside of YMX heart would be those regarding the back up plan to forge the X-Blade (A.K.A Creating the 13 Seekers of Darkness) which leads to him working behind the scenes of KH1-KH2 and KH3D. MX wanted to ensure that his nobody was in his younger form because he never intended for Terra to be his permenant vessel. Terra was meant to be a temporary vessel if the first attempt to forge the X-Blade failed. That way one day MX could merge back with his nobody YMX and get his youthful form back without relying on Terra.

B. More than likely MX passed the Mark of Mastery Exam and became a Keyblade Master while he was still young. As such MX was probably stronger in his young age (Probably early to mid 30's) than he is in his old age. Usually people are stronger when they are younger than when they are old.

C. Like I said, in my version of things MX meant for Terra to be a temporary vessel until his nobody YMX could finish completing the 13 Seekers of Darkness. Once that was done MX would merge back with his nobody YMX, and therefore regain his youthful form without needing Terra. He was justing using Terra's body to ensure he wouldn't die before the 13 Seekers of Darkness could be completed. All of this in case his first attempt to forge the X-Blade failed in BBS.





<3

IDK I just find the remnant idea to be a bigger cop out than the time traveling method. Like if characters can leave remnants of their memories and feelings what would be the need for the purgatory like RoS? and think about characters like Roxas, Namine, and ,Xion they to would have remnants after being absorbed by Sora and Kairi. Ven gets one too. And think about it like this, if you 'kill' someone you're only just striping them of their bods. Seeing to the fact memories and feeling make up the heart basically. At least with the TT method you have to go back to your original time. With this I can keep willing you and killing you but with the power of KH you'll leave some form of yourself.

Okay, let me try and make this clear.

Unversed are fragments of a person's existence given monster form. Now a person can do this with a strong enough heart and enough practice. It was easy for Vanitas since it was created from pure darkness. However Unversed are simply extensions of the person they come, puppets with out a will of their own, guided only by the will of the person they come from. If the person they come from dies, the unversed also die.

But Remnants are different. No one, no matter how strong their heart is, even if they are a Keyblade Wielder, can create a remnant on their own. Only by leaving behind a fragment of your existence with the aid of KH can the fragment of your existence gain a will of its own and thus become a remnant.

Since KH has only appeared very few times, it is extremely rare for anyone to be able to create a remnant. Terra, Xemnas, and XH were able to create remnants because in all three cases KH was involved. Terra's powerful will to stop MX caused a fragment of his existence (Made from his anger toward MX, His memories of TAV, and his desire to protect his friends) to be left behind after MX possesed him. But thanks to KH being present, that fragment drew power from it, gaining a will of its own thus becoming a remnant, and possesing Terra's armor to gain a physical form.

In the case of XH, his ambition and determination to accomplish his goals allowed him to leave a fragment of his existence, but only because the light of KH was consuming him, that fragment of his existence was empowered by the light of KH and gained a will of its own thus allowing it to remain as a remnant of XH which latched on to Riku's heart.

In the case of Xemnas, he had absorbed the remains of the artificial KH before his battle with Sora and Riku. When he was destroyed, his powerful will allowed a fragment of existence to survive, and because he had absorbed the remains of the artitifical KH, that fragment of his existence gained a will of its own and became a remnant.

Without a strong will and aid from KH, it is impossible for anyone to create a remnant. The pieces just happen to align just right for the conditions to be there for Xemnas, XH, and Terra to create remnants.

Think of Remnants as a ghost of the heart. A Remnant left behind. Given enough time and help (Like from YMX) a remnant can be restored to its former glory. (Kind of like how the fragment of Tom Riddle's soul in the diary was using Ginny's life force to return to a physical form). Basically I'm what I call a remnant is the same as Terra's lingering sentiment in BBS I'm just expanding on a concept already in the story.
 

Nayru's Love

Why don't you play in Hell?
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
4,232
Awards
9
Age
30
Location
Chicago, IL
Define "Alternate Version," because you've got a lot of things to change before the theory looks less contradictory. Why avoid time travel in your theory if it's been proven to be canon?
 

Memory Master

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,422
Awards
1
Define "Alternate Version," because you've got a lot of things to change before the theory looks less contradictory. Why avoid time travel in your theory if it's been proven to be canon?

"Alternate Version" as in how I would have tweaked or slightly alter certain things already in the story in order to make it flow more smoothly.

I'm not really contradicting anything in my alternate plot. Of course not everything is going to line up with the actually story canon that is why it's called an "Alternate Version".

I'm basically taking Unversed and slightly altering what they are made of. Then I'm taking the Lingering Sentiment and just expanding on it with my own ideas of how they are made, what they are, and so on, and then just calling them "Remnants" instead of Lingering Sentiments. I believe "Remnant" is the proper english translation since Vanitas' Lingering Sentiment secret boss is called "Vanitas' Remnant" in the english version of BBS.

Then i'm taking the Lingering Sentiment/Remnant concept and tying it in to how a new version of Xemnas and XH could be restored and exist alongside MX and NeoTerranort.

It's really not complicated, just long. I really do need to learn how to shorten my thoughts when I write them down. lol.

---------------------------------------------------------

As for the time travel thing. Yes I know it's canon and I accept that of course. But it doesn't change my opinion on it. Personally I believe certain things like Time Travel, Afterlife, and some other things are risky business when it comes to putting them in a story.

I'm not against introducing these concepts in a story but it has to be done carefully or you run the risk of needlessly over complicating the plot. When using these risky concepts I prefer certains ways to use them carefully.

Time Travel: Used in many stories, but not always used carefully. Instead of time traveling physically or being able to interact with the past, I prefer two other methods.

1. The first is intangible time travel. This method involves going into the past in a form where you are unable to actually interact with the world or change past events, instead you can only observe past events. If they wanted to use time travel in KH then it should have been this method as a way to explain MX learning about the proper method to forge the X-Blade. I would have XH to go back in time and find a more complete version of the Keyblade War legend which contained the proper method to forge the X-Blade, thus begining MX plans with Organization XIII and the POH. Although I would keep the concept you can only travel to time periods where you existed, but unlike your physical past self, your intangeble future self can observe places and events of that time that he could not before.

Thus making it an extremely effective way to gather new knowledge and information while also being highly restrictive as time travel should be.

Albert Einstein even suggested that this form of time travel is most likely how real time travel would work, in fact he said it would be even more restrictive.

2. The second form of time travel is not really time travel at all in the traditional sense. In this second method a person could enter a memory world based on a world's past but while not actually time travel itself, meddling in these special memory worlds can lead to some effects in the real world. I would have used this method for timeless river and disney castle in KH2.
---------------------------------------------

However while the concept of time travel in KH leaves a slightly bitter taste in my mouth, I'm keeping hope that they make me like the concept in a future game. When the X-Blade was introduced in BBS I thought that having two ways to get to KH (The other being the POH) wasn't really needed, especially because I thought the way to forge the X-Balde seemed too easy. But with KH3D revealing the true method to forging a true and complete X-Blade and showing the POH don't actually give you access to KH but rather the Realm of Darkness, I have come to love the X-Blade concept greatly especially since it connects XH and Xemnas' plans back to MX's plan and ties the series together pretty well.

So i'm hoping they make me love the time travel concept in the same way in a future game.
 

Nayru's Love

Why don't you play in Hell?
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
4,232
Awards
9
Age
30
Location
Chicago, IL
I can sort of see where you're coming from. It's just that I'm assuming you'll somehow incorporate time-travel into the final theory, which would drastically change the theory.

More importantly, I'm curious as to why you're going through so much effort in a theory for something that already has a clear answer (XH's and Xemnas' existences, explained through time travel).
 

Memory Master

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,422
Awards
1
I can sort of see where you're coming from. It's just that I'm assuming you'll somehow incorporate time-travel into the final theory, which would drastically change the theory.

More importantly, I'm curious as to why you're going through so much effort in a theory for something that already has a clear answer (XH's and Xemnas' existences, explained through time travel).

I do this all the time really. When it comes to stories I like (DBZ, KH, and other ones) I will often look at the stories and challenge myself to see what I would do differently had I been the one to create the story. Sometimes it will just be slight changes or tweaks, sometimes I will remove a certain concept all together and replace it with a new concept that is less complex but still gives the same basic result as the original concept. As is the case with KH.

Other times I will take more drastric changes to a story, but still keep its overall story. In DBZ for example I wouldn't have included Other World. I would have given hints and established there is indeed an afterlife and a hell like place and heaven like place, but we would never actually see it and people who are revived would not remember their time there because the heavenly realm is to glorious for their mortal minds to remember and the hell realm is too horrible for their mortal minds to remember. I may have included a purgatory or limbo between life and death and allowed that to be seen as a way to get around Goku's 2nd death when Cell exploded. So I would have taken the approach the Harry Potter books did toward the afterlife: Its established clearly there is an afterlife but what it is like is unknown, and the closest we ever get to it is the limbo Harry was spoke with dumbledore in. Of course this also means the role of the Kais would have to be changed somewhat, King Yemma may be excluded altogether. Also I would need to create an explanation as to why Supreme Kai didn't know of or defeat Frieza himself since he did say any of the Supreme Kais could have defeated Frieza easily.

---------------------------------------------

This type of thing is really my idea of fun lol. I enjoy nothing more than sitting down and taking stories and ideas I love and think are wonderful and putting my own spin on things, and when i'm finally finished making a complete alternate version of a story that i'm pleased with, that is the most relaxing and satisfying feeling in the world to me. Usually it takes months, sometimes years for me to make a complete alternate version of a story, but I love it none the less. If I knew my family and friends would not be dissapointed in me, I may actually consider dropping this idea I have for a political career in favor of a career where I could create stories or work on the plot of games or animes or movies. I once remember someone saying that maybe heaven is God letting us live in our own little worlds where we do and enjoy the things we love most. If that is true then my heaven would be me creating my own fantasy worlds and making my stories and ideas come to life, able to feel a satisfying sense of accomplishment at the end of each story, and doing this for the rest of eternity.

Anyways i'm rambling really, but yeah this is why I make threads like this. I just wish I would learn to keep it shorter lol
 

Nayru's Love

Why don't you play in Hell?
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
4,232
Awards
9
Age
30
Location
Chicago, IL
So, it's like challenging yourself, basically. I think I do that occasionally, too, because thinking outside of the box (for lack of a better term) can help you think of concepts you wouldn't have thought up of before.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top