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Final Fantasy XV hate?



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Sephiroth0812

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If there are two constants you can count on the FF fanbase to deliver in it is the always burning hatred for the at the time newest installment (this is a staple I think ever since FF VIII) and how it "ruined FF forever" for a variety of reasons and the jaded old-school gamers who want FF to go back to having a whole overworld map, controllable airships and turn-based combat (read: everything before the Playstation era), regardless how difficult to realize and how unwieldy such an approach would be with current technology nowadays.
Purists like those will be in like a 100% disappointment with the FF VII remake too as there's no way in hell Square will retain the clunky old ATB system as main battle mechanic.

Most of the complaints now directed at FF XV are also not really new or original as many of those have been directed against other FF titles in the past with slight modifications.
Just to take one example out of it the complaints about having an all male party almost totally mirror the complaints that FF X-2 had an all female party.

If I would pay attention to all these whining party poopers I would have lost joy in FF completely by now.
 

Wander

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I found that it's best to treat a new Final Fantasy game as a standalone game instead of part of a series. It makes sense, it's guaranteed to have no connection to previous games and almost always comes with its own new battle system. Oh, and pretend XIII never happened.


About the car, I think people who don't want fast travel have never played Dragon's Dogma. It's a great game but the number one complaint everyone has with it is that it has a big-ass world with no fast travel. It sounds cool at first but then you realize you have to walk from town A to town B for quests going through the same damned areas over and over without a way to speed it up. Modern day RPGs have huge worlds, and to have that and no fast travel mechanism is just incredibly stupid.
 

FacetiousDreamer

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Why I don’t like FFXV? Well… let’s see… BECAUSE IT IS NOT FF VERSUS XIII.

We were promised:

  1. Ability to switch between 3 playable characters in real time (which would allowed to mix hack-and-slash RPG and 3-d person shooter, and who knows what else), and to have 5 playable characters in total.
  2. Ability to use enemy’s transport.
  3. Having a flying ship under your control.
  4. Highly destructible environment and ability to interact with this environment triggering some king of unique sequences during battles.
  5. Dark game which almost certainly was about to be M-rated.
  6. Having Tetsuya-f**king-Nomura in director’s chair…
…and s**t loads of other stuff.
None of this is obviously happening. SE promised a lot and not intends to keep those promises after keeping people waiting for many years, feeding them with falsehood. This is a new low not just for this company, but for the whole game industry. I don’t care if characters look like Japanese boys band or that there aren’t any chicks to play with, — I care about quality of the gameplay, and this quality has decreased ENORMOUSLY since E3 2013 trailer, you have to be blind not to see it.
I’m not SE fan, never was. In fact, I’m not a fan of anything. I don’t burden myself with fanaticism or hatred, there are things I love or like, and thing I don’t like. SE and FFXV are definitely among things I don’t like. I hope they don’t screw up with KHIII like they did with versus XIII.

P.S. And those pathetic attempts to make game world look like something from Xenoblade Chronicles are just ludicrous. Not mentioning that they’re planning to deprive the story of the key characters like Stella.

P.S.S. I don’t mean to offend anybody with my criticism. Please, do note that all of this based on facts, I’m not making stuff up. I don’t hate, I just pointing out that SE were very dishonest. I think they should have canceled the game instead of turning it into something it wasn’t supposed to be. Of course it would have been bad, but not as bad as what they’re doing now.
 
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Wander

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You don't like an unreleased game for not being a different game you were shown a footage of eight years ago.

okay
 

hemmoheikkinen

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Well, I am not that surprised that this game gets a lot of negativity. It is kinda different compared to earlier titles, but I remember someone at Sqaure saying(it might have been Sagakuchi), that FF changes. I guess people are wanting and identical copy like the previous games, with turn based battle system, but that will not happen.

I can see that changes that have been made will make people little angry, but even with all these I still find FFXV rather fascinating. It still has a lot elements from Versus, so I am not too worried. If you watch the ending of Episode Duscae, you will see that there is a rather dark tone in the game.
Also we don`t know a whole lot about the story, so I guess we need more story stuff. Maybe from Gamescom. It is sad that Stella is no more, but I really wanna give Luna a change. We haven`t seen much from her either.

Sometimes it just feels rather tiresome to discuss about this game on other forums. My comments sink in the flood of negativity, so I see no point of writing about FFXV. I once wanted to make a rather long essay on Finnish gaming forum, but I was so afraid that the comment section would be flooded with comments like: "FF is dead, these characters are so gay. etc"... than well constructed argumentation, so I decided to abandon that idea. Maybe one day when I gather around my courage and finally finish more of my school work.

I don`t want to sound like a duufus, but could this discussion just have been integrated to the already existing FFXV thread? :)
 

FacetiousDreamer

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You don't like an unreleased game for not being a different game you were shown a footage of eight years ago.

Unm… E3 2013? No?
They showed trailer on E3 2013 with gameplay that differs greatly from what they’re doing now, but was very much similar to FF versus XIII footage from PS3. Detailed explanations were given about the reasons because of which they’d decided to go on with the next generation. Shortly putted, it was because they weren’t able to do a lot of things they’d promised to do on the old hardware. Therefore making people believe that they are making the same old game shown on PS3 (only now with different title). They didn’t say this uprightly (because they obviously weren’t about to keep any of those promises), they just say enough to make people believe that they are still making the same game. To ensure they can get away with it, they put something like “the final product may differ from what you look at” into trailer. SE are frauds. Please, don’t make it sound like they showed one trailer 8 years ago, and that’s it. They’ve lied for years. I lost my count of how many times they said something like "Versus XIII is still in development. It is very ambitious, and it will meet your expectations". Expectations are not apear from a thin air , they broght up to life by promises none of which are kept.
If you still waiting for this game — please, keep on waiting, buy it when it released and enjoy it, but don’t act like all the negativity towards it came out of nowhere.
 
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Magnus

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The fanbase is full of people who cannot accept change and love to complain.

I definitely agree that Final Fantasy XIII was the catalyst for how jaded people have become today. The game was initially met with general praise. People changed their tune a couple of months later though. That's not to say the game isn't flawed and that one could have a legitimate discussion about its lack of exploration and such, but the way people went from at least thinking it was good to repeating how awful they thought it was ad nauseam (because everything is either black or white on the Internet) - it really felt like people just wanted to be negative for the sake of being negative. Misery loves company, as they say.

Ever since then the fanbase has been plagued by naysayers and cynics who think the franchise is dead, that it'll never be good again. They find various strawmen to support this argument, like "they need to get Sakaguchi back!" and "it's Enix's fault, they should never have merged!". Ironically, the merger happened because Sakaguchi almost ran the company into the ground with The Spirits Within. People put him on a pedestal, which they shouldn't. Yes, he created the series but mostly worked on the first five games - all of which basically recycled the same theme of crystals and warriors of light in some form. It has since grown so big it can no longer be credited to one single person. Kitase and Nomura certainly had a bigger role in creating VII than him, yet people think he should be brought back for the remake. Why? What good would that do? He has changed, too. Just like everyone else. This is a man who is now fond of making mobile games, something Square Enix gets a lot of flack for doing. It is also a man who has failed to produce anything noteworthy during his time at Mistwalker.

As for the complaints regarding Final Fantasy XV, they're all ridiculous.

Yes, it's an action RPG. So what? People who think that means button mashing and no strategy honestly don't know what they're talking about. But some fans are hung up on the idea that it has to be turn-based to be Final Fantasy. Oddly enough, Final Fantasy XIII used a variant of the ATB system. But I digress. ATB isn't proper turn-based either. Yes, you can set it to "wait", making it... not ATB... which many people like to do (which sort of defeats the purpose in praising that system). I forgot who it was, but the person responsible for the ATB system said in an interview that the original plan was to make Final fantasy IV an action RPG with real-time battles but they didn't want to risk alienating the small but growing fanbase the series had at the time so they created ATB as a compromise. In short, the plan was always to gradually sway towards more action based combat. If you look at other games in the genre, most of them have already made the transition. Turn-based combat in this day and age is archaic, unless it's an SRPG.

Yes, it has four male leads. So what? Bigots say it's gay, but then again they also said the same thing about a certain game with three female leads. "Feminists" say it's sexist, yet ignore the fact that Final Fantasy is known for its many strong female characters and that the most recent games star Yuna, Ashe and Lightning. For the record, there was literally equal representation in Final Fantasy XIII. That clearly didn't matter at the end of the day, did it?

They look like a boyband? Just because they're four boys, right? They can't just be a regular group of friends who happens to be all male? Or is it because they're all dressed in black? You know, the reason for that is because they're supposed to be similar to the yakuza. Maybe it's because a couple of them have "anime hair"? Whoa, if you really think that - are you really a long-time fan of the series? Or do you just want to play it because it's a big AAA release with great graphics and you normally play shooters? Final Fantasy has always featured androgynous characters, usually far more so than anything we've seen in this game so far. The irony is that most of the characters we've seen so far don't fall into Nomura's usual "belts and buckles" with ridiculous hair category. Noctis looks very Japanese indeed, but Gladiolus for example looks more Italian. Even Prompto no longer looks Japanese. He looks like a western guy who's cosplaying. In general, most other characters seem to have more in common with Auron than Squall or Tidus.

Last but not least we've got the stupid complaints about how it no longer looks like it did in the original trailers. First of all, we've barely seen anything from this game. Episode Duscae is basically the equivalent of leaving Midgar and exploring some before entering Kalm, albeit far more advanced in terms of what you can do. The few recent trailers we've got that involves some plot, they all seem rather dark. The only thing that's changed based on what we've seen is the combat system, which now uses something that resembles gambits for the AI controlled characters and the action has been toned down to make the gameplay more strategic. Also, Stella has transformed into Luna. I doubt they changed the entire plot. As far as we know, it's just an aesthetic change.

But haters gonna hate. Some people have unfortunately already decided the game is going to suck without even having tried the demo. Still, that doesn't mean they're going to shut up about it. They will continue to spam message boards with their negativity.
 
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ultima-demi

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Whatever hype i had when it was still versus 13 is gone now.

Pretty much indifferent towards everything shown now.I do get annoyed with all the unnecessary hate though so i don't even bother with FF related forums and the fanbase in general.
 

Wander

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Unm… E3 2013? No?
They showed trailer on E3 2013 with gameplay that differs greatly from what they’re doing now, but was very much similar to FF versus XIII footage from PS3. Detailed explanations were given about the reasons because of which they’d decided to go on with the next generation. Shortly putted, it was because they weren’t able to do a lot of things they’d promised to do on the old hardware. Therefore making people believe that they are making the same old game shown on PS3 (only now with different title). They didn’t say this uprightly (because they obviously weren’t about to keep any of those promises), they just say enough to make people believe that they are still making the same game. To ensure they can get away with it, they put something like “the final product may differ from what you look at” into trailer. SE are frauds. Please, don’t make it sound like they showed one trailer 8 years ago, and that’s it. They’ve lied for years. I lost my count of how many times they said something like "Versus XIII is still in development. It is very ambitious, and it will meet your expectations". Expectations are not apear from a thin air , they broght up to life by promises none of which are kept.
If you still waiting for this game — please, keep on waiting, buy it when it released and enjoy it, but don’t act like all the negativity towards it came out of nowhere.

My problem with your complaints is that it's based on Episode Duscae alone. It's not a finished game and we won't know if the game meets your ridiculously entitled expectations until it's out, so judging it this harshly based on a damned demo is really jumping the gun. They've shown that they're still open to suggestions from the fanbase so maybe give them constructive criticism instead? The E3 2013 scene with Leviathan is still in the game as far as I'm aware, so I don't know what you're talking about in terms of that lol.

Don't get too attached to a game in development, that's why every footage they show is tagged with "subject to change" haha.
 

FacetiousDreamer

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Wander
Everything that is “subject to change” must remain behind closed doors and not to be shown to the public. After 25+ years in business they’re releasing half baked demo and then asking people: “Did you like it? What should we change?” How lame and unprofessional is that? The fact that they are showing this to public tells that they don’t know what the hell they are doing. They’re trying to please everyone, but falling on every step. Nomura had a vision of the game; he knew what the game should look like. Creators and artists don’t show half made piece of an art and ask public what in it is have to be changed to satisfy everyone, they just do what they think is right with some consideration of people's tastes.
Every year hundreds of games released looking like no more that extended versions of their demos and gameplay trailers, without any major changes in gamplay mechanics, overall concept or story. Why? BECAUSE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY’RE DOING. They have a clear vision of the games’ concepts and know how all of the ideas should be actualized within these concepts to make it all work together. Putting random things in the game just because of the popular demand is destructive for the game as whole.
You and too many other people are treating this “subject to change” like something regular, when it’s not. It is exception, bad exception which shows how unprofesional and unimaginative some of the SE personel can be in terms of both development and advertising.

And just for the record, those aren’t my expectations, it is WHAT WAS PROMISED:
1. Ability to switch between 3 playable characters in real time (which would allowed to mix hack-and-slash RPG and 3-d person shooter, and who knows what else), and to have 5 playable characters in total.
2. Ability to use enemy’s transport.
3. Having a flying ship under your control.
4. Highly destructible environment and ability to interact with this environment triggering some king of unique sequences during battles.
5. Dark game which almost certainly was about to be M-rated.
6. Having Tetsuya-f**king-Nomura in director’s chair.

I'm not a naive 5-year-old boy to believe in people who broke sooo many promises, lied for sooo long and obviously don't know what kind of game they want to make (if they even whant to make games and not just milk some money from famost franchise).
 
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Some guy

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Seriously, SE promised nothing! And at the end of every trailer out there (not just SE's) there's a "work in development , subject to change" ...

And Re:Magnus already said all there is to say.

I'm getting tired of all the negativity on the internet, but unfortunately, that's mostly all there is.
 

Vanitas666

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And just for the record, those aren’t my expectations, it is WHAT WAS PROMISED:
1. Ability to switch between 3 playable characters in real time (which would allowed to mix hack-and-slash RPG and 3-d person shooter, and who knows what else), and to have 5 playable characters in total.
2. Ability to use enemy’s transport.
3. Having a flying ship under your control.
4. Highly destructible environment and ability to interact with this environment triggering some king of unique sequences during battles.

5. Dark game which almost certainly was about to be M-rated.
6. Having Tetsuya-f**king-Nomura in director’s chair.

I'm not a naive 5-year-old boy to believe in people who broke sooo many promises, lied for sooo long and obviously don't know what kind of game they want to make (if they even whant to make games and not just milk some money from famost franchise).

Any word if those are still in? I mean I think I've been keeping up with the interviews so I should have seen it but I have to ask.
I'm truly disappointed if they take away number 2 as well. God dammit I wish they hadn't changed the gameplay.
I truly prey that FF VII will be the FF Versus XIII we never got, changing between characters with completely different gameplay and using enemies vehicles would be so beast.
Not sure what vehicles we'd use but I always wanted that gameplay/character switching since I first plaid FF VII (especially since it was after DoC, I think I wished for the same thing when I was playing that already, so long ago but I want to remember I did.)

Seriously, SE promised nothing! And at the end of every trailer out there (not just SE's) there's a "work in development , subject to change" ...

And Re:Magnus already said all there is to say.

I'm getting tired of all the negativity on the internet, but unfortunately, that's mostly all there is.

They did say that all of that would be in the game in interviews, I don't think they should explicitly have to say "We promise" to confirm that. (don't remember that one about the fifth playable character though but I have a weak memory now that you mention it.)
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Any word if those are still in? I mean I think I've been keeping up with the interviews so I should have seen it but I have to ask.
I'm truly disappointed if they take away number 2 as well. God dammit I wish they hadn't changed the gameplay.
I truly prey that FF VII will be the FF Versus XIII we never got, changing between characters with completely different gameplay and using enemies vehicles would be so beast.
Not sure what vehicles we'd use but I always wanted that gameplay/character switching since I first plaid FF VII (especially since it was after DoC, I think I wished for the same thing when I was playing that already, so long ago but I want to remember I did.)

2 & 3 are unknown right now. Tabata has said they will try their best to see if they can make airships flyable, but it was obvious it was not as high of a priority as say getting the gameplay working.

The environment doesn't seem to be that heavily affected by Noctis & co., though we have seen larger enemies destroy parts of areas and Noctis & co. can interact with interactive parts of areas. These parts seem to be very specific and predetermined, though.

They did say that all of that would be in the game in interviews, I don't think they should explicitly have to say "We promise" to confirm that. (don't remember that one about the fifth playable character though but I have a weak memory now that you mention it.)

Cor is the fifth.
 

Vanitas666

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Thanks for the response Master :), I really hope they come out and confirm both the airship and vehicles.
I can live with not having that many destructible areas because it most be really difficult to make but it would pretty fucking cool.
 

hemmoheikkinen

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Oh, the destruction scenes might be scripted. I remember Tabata saying in the latest ATR, that the bigger enemies will rip off the roof of the building where you are. Not sure if that is cinematic thou, but it sounds really cool in my opinion.

Noo, not Cor. :( Wee need Regis bodyguard. Somebody needs to tell Noctis about all the horror that happened in Insomnia.
xv_e3_2013-573.png
 
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Oracle Spockanort

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Poor Cor. He was replaced by a damn CAR :( :(

Secretly, Cor has been the car all along!

Thanks for the response Master :), I really hope they come out and confirm both the airship and vehicles.
I can live with not having that many destructible areas because it most be really difficult to make but it would pretty fucking cool.

No problem! Glad to help!
 

VoidGear.

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Secretly, Cor has been the car all along!

So he's a transformer? That's cool!

Anyways, what again was the reason to cancel Stella? I kind of liked her, just from the looks and her role, at least as much as was known about it. She seemed like an independent woman, while Luna looks like she'll be the "nee-chaaaan"-like character for Noctis. :c
 

Oracle Spockanort

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So he's a transformer? That's cool!

8D

Anyways, what again was the reason to cancel Stella? I kind of liked her, just from the looks and her role, at least as much as was known about it. She seemed like an independent woman, while Luna looks like she'll be the "nee-chaaaan"-like character for Noctis. :c

The development team found it hard to get a good grasp of her character and role in the story, so they were left with the decision of cutting her out and starting from scratch or rewriting Stella and they preferred cutting her and starting over.

The way I see it, her story and character arc was probably a bit too complex (rival, love interest, mysterious connection to Etro, princess of warring kingdom, enemy, friend & ally, etc.) for just one game to tell. The plan was to have XV have sequels back in 2013, but now that they aren't happening (who knows if this will change), they had to change the story in order for it to fit what they wanted into one game.
 

FacetiousDreamer

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Seriously, SE promised nothing! And at the end of every trailer out there (not just SE's) there's a "work in development , subject to change" ...

And Re:Magnus already said all there is to say.

I'm getting tired of all the negativity on the internet, but unfortunately, that's mostly all there is.

Here’s trailer of FF versus XIII which lacks both of these phrases. How people who were waiting for the game should have guest it will change drastically and even going to be renamed?

[video=youtube;YiIx9VJWSl8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIx9VJWSl8[/video]

E3 2013 trailer also lacks of both of these phrases. And only in the second trailer (second part of the video below 3:38), which was released day after the first one, we can see how this "subject to change" appears for the first time years after announcement of the game.

[video=youtube;WEKNUCjcrMY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEKNUCjcrMY[/video]

Millions of other trailers of millions of other games though all of the internet are, gues what? yes! lack of both of these phrases.


If you don't want to see negative opinions about the game, why do you even visiting this thread? I’m not writing all this in the main FFXV thread in front of the people who are still exited about the game; don’t want to spoil their excitement.
 
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