• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

"everything is born from sleep"



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Goldpanner

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,517
Awards
11
Website
twitter.com
So I just wanted to explain why the English trailer and the fan translated videos don't match up.

WARNING: tl;dr ahead.

In the new English trailer, AtW says

Many are still waiting for their birth by sleep. Even me. Even you.

In Japanese, it's

全ては眠りから生まれる。そう、君さえもな

Now, when this scene first came out in the Japanese BBS secret ending, I translated it here as

Everything is born from sleep. Yes, even you.

(And so did this person.)

However, the word '全て' can also be translated in other ways, including 'all'. So,

All is born from sleep. Yes, even you.

Could also have worked.

But you know what? In Japanese, they don't differentiate between 'are' and 'is' like we do in English, because their nouns don't inflect for plural. So even,

All are born from sleep. Yes, even you.

Could have worked.

But even that isn't exactly like the real sentence, because in English, we need two verbs for that sentence: be(/is/are), and birth(/born). However, in Japanese there is only one verb. 'Born'. So literally, the sentence could be more like

As for all/everything, born from sleep. Yes, even you.

Which is stupid, which is why fan translators like me or localisers have to figure out how what fits best. It could be

Everything is born, implying that... well, all things are born through sleep.

All is born, implying the same thing as the first but in fancier wording.

Or

All are born, implying that all of a certain group of people/things mentioned previously are born through sleep.

And, it looks like the English localisation team decided on the last one, seeing as AtW was talking about the tormented people being saved by Sora opening some kind of door just before that. Which makes a lot of sense.

I personally thought that line was meant to parallel Ansem SoD's 'All hearts are born from these dark depths. Even yours,' and connected the concepts of the births of hearts and sleep and Kingdom Hearts neatly. Especially considering Nomura said in a Days-era interview:

—What is the definition of a heart in Kingdom Hearts?
NOMURA: It is the theme of the series. To explain it simply, a person has a body, a soul, and a heart. As an image, the soul is the life source, without it a person would be dead. Since the heart doesn’t have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart. Also, the heart isn’t limited to people, but to all things. I tried to explain this concept to Disney, and they merely said that it must be an Eastern way of thinking.

Buuuut it seems less likely now. I kind of like what they did with the line, tying it into both what was said before and the montage of all the people 'waiting for their birth by sleep' that show up after.

So yeah, that's why the English trailer and the fan translated videos don't match up.

ANYONE WHO SPEAKS JAPANESE PLEASE TELL ME IF I AM MAKING HEINOUS ERRORS HERE ★
 

Oracle Spockanort

written in the stars
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
35,552
Awards
96
Age
32
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
So I just wanted to explain why the English trailer and the fan translated videos don't match up.

WARNING: tl;dr ahead.

In the new English trailer, AtW says



In Japanese, it's



Now, when this scene first came out in the Japanese BBS secret ending, I translated it here as



(And so did this person.)

However, the word '全て' can also be translated in other ways, including 'all'. So,



Could also have worked.

But you know what? In Japanese, they don't differentiate between 'are' and 'is' like we do in English, because their nouns don't inflect for plural. So even,



Could have worked.

But even that isn't exactly like the real sentence, because in English, we need two verbs for that sentence: be(/is/are), and birth(/born). However, in Japanese there is only one verb. 'Born'. So literally, the sentence could be more like



Which is stupid, which is why fan translators like me or localisers have to figure out how what fits best. It could be

Everything is born, implying that... well, all things are born through sleep.

All is born, implying the same thing as the first but in fancier wording.

Or

All are born, implying that all of a certain group of people/things mentioned previously are born through sleep.

And, it looks like the English localisation team decided on the last one, seeing as AtW was talking about the tormented people being saved by Sora opening some kind of door just before that. Which makes a lot of sense.

I personally thought that line was meant to parallel Ansem SoD's 'All hearts are born from these dark depths. Even yours,' and connected the concepts of the births of hearts and sleep and Kingdom Hearts neatly. Especially considering Nomura said in a Days-era interview:



Buuuut it seems less likely now. I kind of like what they did with the line, tying it into both what was said before and the montage of all the people 'waiting for their birth by sleep' that show up after.

So yeah, that's why the English trailer and the fan translated videos don't match up.

ANYONE WHO SPEAKS JAPANESE PLEASE TELL ME IF I AM MAKING HEINOUS ERRORS HERE ★

I speak Japanese but I'm too lazy to read what you said right now.

But I think they wanted to keep the title in the line.
 

destiny seeker

Seeker of the Future
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
1,730
Awards
5
I know a small bit of japanese and I think Subete means everything, nemuri means sleep, Kara means from, Umareru means birth. I also think Kara could mean by though.
So I still think it should be Everthing is born from sleep.
 
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
5,612
Awards
4
Location
∵Иೆ!?तっФ」
Another pretty big difference between the Japanese and English translation is the implication of exactly when something is "born from sleep."

Saying "everything is born from sleep" is declarative in a general sense. It doesn't specify when it happens, just that it does.
On the other hand, saying "Many are still waiting for their birth by sleep" suggests that, for the most part, it has yet to occur. So the meaning changes quite a bit, or at the very least, it's further specified in the English translation.
 

HeartSeams

is back?
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,758
Awards
1
English also implies that those who will be "saved" will actually come back, completely.

"Many are still waiting for their new beginning--their Birth by Sleep."

Which means that it may not be what people hoped (that RAX being saved just mean torments fixed, not that they would actually fully come back)
 

Goldpanner

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,517
Awards
11
Website
twitter.com
I know a small bit of japanese and I think Subete means everything, nemuri means sleep, Kara means from, Umareru means birth. I also think Kara could mean by though.
So I still think it should be Everthing is born from sleep.

Subete is more general :3 So like, it can mean 'everything,' and it can mean 'all', as in 'all (of what was mentioned before)'/everything.

For example,

keeki wo tsukurimashita. subete wa naku narimashita.
(I made cakes. All [of them] disappeared.)

Saying "everything is born from sleep" is declarative in a general sense. It doesn't specify when it happens, just that it does.
On the other hand, saying "Many are still waiting for their birth by sleep" suggests that, for the most part, it has yet to occur. So the meaning changes quite a bit, or at the very least, it's further specified in the English translation.

Yeah, the Japanese line really has no marked tense, or marked indication of intention or anything. It's very simple sentence structure.

"Many are still waiting for their new beginning--their Birth by Sleep."

Which means that it may not be what people hoped (that RAX being saved just mean torments fixed, not that they would actually fully come back)

FFFFFFFFFFFFF

edit: wait! unless this turns out to be one of those translations that don't fit so well later! (Like Sora being called the 'Keyblade Master' for ages, instead of more literal Keyblade Hero, and then we find out later in the series that actually there are Keyblade Masters and it's completely different...)
 
Last edited:

HeartSeams

is back?
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,758
Awards
1
I think with something like the secret ending, they would have consulted Nomura on what he intended for it to be.
 

Goldpanner

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,517
Awards
11
Website
twitter.com
Yeah, that's why I said 'it seems less likely now' in the OP XD I'd definitely hope they'd ask.
Except I also hope they didn't so I don't have to think they're all coming back.
Beh.
 

chasespicer056

Empathy is Divine
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
2,138
Location
United States
I'm not sure which translation to go by. ATW's English translation actually makes sense to me, because he describes Birth By Sleep as basically a "second chance" for people. But the other one, "everything is born from sleep", COMPLETELY confused me.
 

HeartSeams

is back?
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
3,758
Awards
1
I'm not sure which translation to go by. ATW's English translation actually makes sense to me, because he describes Birth By Sleep as basically a "second chance" for people. But the other one, "everything is born from sleep", COMPLETELY confused me.
lol, go with the one that doesnt confuse you then.
Nomura interviews pretty much clarified "everything is born from sleep" as being what the English version sets it out to be.
 

Radar

Bronze Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
1,079
Location
Nowhere Land
SI when Atw says that to aqua he is talking about sora saving them all and all hearts are born from darkness idea?
 

Relix

A traveler
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
4,902
Awards
1
Yeah i think the English interpretation is better and less confusing.
 

destiny seeker

Seeker of the Future
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
1,730
Awards
5
I kinda like the japanese one better because you kinda had to think about the what it means.
 

Sign

trapped in revamp hell
Staff member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
17,751
Awards
36
I kinda like the japanese one better because you kinda had to think about the what it means.

Ironic that a bunch of scenes are being changed to make things easier to understand.
 

Goldpanner

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,517
Awards
11
Website
twitter.com
I personally like the Japanese one better, because I think that line is phrased really beautifully and his VA delivers it so well. 'kimi sae mo na'..... made me cryyy. Also, I like the vagueness a bit more, too. I like how it sounds mystical, like some kind of universal truth that he discovered...

But I do like the English line in that it clears up exactly what 'birth by sleep' means without having to resort to interviews. I wish there was more of that in KH games, really.
 

Allister Rose

French Lover
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
10,344
i think you're more focused on ow he said it then what he said. Anyways alil off topic, did you notice the trailer ven said "my friends are my power and I'm theirs" did sora say that exact same line in kh1?

if not, it should've stayed more loyal to the original
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top