Events of the first battle in the Keyblade Graveyard and thereafter



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KHRULER

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digz

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

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This is just a theory but so far I'm thinking it makes the most sense so far from what I can tell. The only reason why you would be confused about that scene is because

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sorry for so many spoilers
 
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KHRULER

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

Spoiler Spoiler Show


This is just a theory but so far I'm thinking it makes the most sense so far from what I can tell. The only reason why you would be confused about that scene is because

Spoiler Spoiler Show


Spoiler Spoiler Show


Spoiler Spoiler Show


Spoiler Spoiler Show


sorry for so many spoilers
Your theory makes sense in the context of what happened. Even though information like this should have been included in the game, I doubt anyone is surprised that it wasn't. Your theory could satisfy question 5 and somewhat question 2.

Q1 is ignorable if I'm being honest; it wouldn't be hard for Nomura to devise a simple explanation (like using PoH for remaining keys) or something complex no one would ever think of.

However, my third question is what currently bothers me the most. I realize this game has several flaws, but I don't know why everyone (inclusive) seems to be ignoring this one. I've been thinking more on the idea that perhaps no one remembers the line between points A and B but just that it happened. Even then, if Sora hadn't talked to Namine in the "Final World," some of the events looked like they were bound to repeat; that idea alone just rubs me the wrong way.

It's even more bothersome that I feel like Normura won't address half of these things... I know this series was never praised for its writing but I feel like it has the worst yet...even more so than DDD.
 

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

On the third question....yeah, there's no explaining that. I guess creating a 20 second scene where everyone reappears in a flash of light and have Terranort attack them again was just too much for their budget.

It's just such a weird decision to make that I almost wonder if it somehow happened by accident.
 

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

On point 3 I honestly thought my game was glitching when you come back from that scene. It was late at night for me so I thought I was tripping.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

On the third question....yeah, there's no explaining that. I guess creating a 20 second scene where everyone reappears in a flash of light and have Terranort attack them again was just too much for their budget.

It's just such a weird decision to make that I almost wonder if it somehow happened by accident.
Someone in another thread suggested that the time traveling shennanigan that Sora did was etched into the Guardians' hearts, but it doesn't necessarily means that they remember all of it, reason as to why the cutscene plays exactly the same.
 

Sora2016

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

It seemed like they didn't really remember, but then like you said Lea referenced it so idk. I didn't really care about the segment overall? Well okay, collecting Sora's and fighting to free everyone's hearts was fun. What happened immediately after was weird though. Like yeah until Lingering Will changed things I was very confused.

And then they sorta brought me back with that dang tornado showing up again lol. I guess Sora charging at it head on is what influenced the help of Ephemer and the UX kids? That was the only key difference there. It kinda feels like the middle part could have been cut and I guess we wouldn't have gotten to talk to the mysterious girl everyone keeps referencing, and Namine, and then seeing "The Final World" in general I guess. Oh, and the mystery of "whose Chirithy is this" I guess lol.

Your theory makes sense in the context of what happened. Even though information like this should have been included in the game, I doubt anyone is surprised that it wasn't. Your theory could satisfy question 5 and somewhat question 2.
Q1 is ignorable if I'm being honest; it wouldn't be hard for Nomura to devise a simple explanation (like using PoH for remaining keys) or something complex no one would ever think of.

However, my third question is what currently bothers me the most. I realize this game has several flaws, but I don't know why everyone (inclusive) seems to be ignoring this one. I've been thinking more on the idea that perhaps no one remembers the line between points A and B but just that it happened. Even then, if Sora hadn't talked to Namine in the "Final World," some of the events looked like they were bound to repeat; that idea alone just rubs me the wrong way.

It's even more bothersome that I feel like Normura won't address half of these things... I know this series was never praised for its writing but I feel like it has the worst yet...even more so than DDD.
Just because of this one part? I dunno, I thought everything prior to this was very well written and even after as well. The fights with the darknesses addressed a lot more than I expected. The only really weird thing in them is Xion just sorta being back already. I guess she was put into a replica by Xehanort, but...earlier they said she was still in Sora. I would say time travel, but then I am confused why she gets to stay? is it cuz they are all in replicas now they aren't bound by that rule I guess? I suppose that could make sense. They "have bodies" so they can't travel back.

But yeah idk, that sounds dramatic to me but I guess we all decide our own what the quality is like.
 
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KHRULER

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

It seemed like they didn't really remember, but then like you said Lea referenced it so idk. I didn't really care about the segment overall? Well okay, collecting Sora's and fighting to free everyone's hearts was fun. What happened immediately after was weird though. Like yeah until Lingering Will changed things I was very confused.

And then they sorta brought me back with that dang tornado showing up again lol. I guess Sora charging at it head on is what influenced the help of Ephemer and the UX kids? That was the only key difference there. It kinda feels like the middle part could have been cut and I guess we wouldn't have gotten to talk to the mysterious girl everyone keeps referencing, and Namine, and then seeing "The Final World" in general I guess. Oh, and the mystery of "whose Chirithy is this" I guess lol.



Just because of this one part? I dunno, I thought everything prior to this was very well written and even after as well. The fights with the darknesses addressed a lot more than I expected. The only really weird thing in them is Xion just sorta being back already. I guess she was put into a replica by Xehanort, but...earlier they said she was still in Sora. I would say time travel, but then I am confused why she gets to stay? is it cuz they are all in replicas now they aren't bound by that rule I guess? I suppose that could make sense. They "have bodies" so they can't travel back.

But yeah idk, that sounds dramatic to me but I guess we all decide our own what the quality is like.
My mindset about it was "Why go through the trouble of adding such a complicated sequence of events but not bother explaining it?" As soon as I set out for the realm of darkness for Aqua, I was instantly hyped. That hype continued all the way to the Keyblade Graveyard. The first part of the segment happened, then "Final World", then the segment again. When I saw the second segment happen again with no explanation, it just killed my mood. It was my only complaint about the game thus far (of course Kairi would end up being another later on but didn't care as much). And then this is used as to plot device as to why Sora couldn't save Kairi AND himself later on. It just felt like a plot convenience rather than something plausible, especially with the lack of explanation. Then this was supposed to be Sora's second chance for the guardians of light through Kairi but they do the same things over...nothing they say or do changes. If it wasn't for Namine, they would have probably died again. Just seemed like poor writing to me. I was hoping I missed something the game intended to communicate about the situation.

Xion is another thing that I'm concerned about in terms of explanations but I'm just trying to answer all my questions by situation lol
That'll come later.
 

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

My mindset about it was "Why go through the trouble of adding such a complicated sequence of events but not bother explaining it?" As soon as I set out for the realm of darkness for Aqua, I was instantly hyped. That hype continued all the way to the Keyblade Graveyard. The first part of the segment happened, then "Final World", then the segment again. When I saw the second segment happen again with no explanation, it just killed my mood. It was my only complaint about the game thus far (of course Kairi would end up being another later on but didn't care as much). And then this is used as to plot device as to why Sora couldn't save Kairi AND himself later on. It just felt like a plot convenience rather than something plausible, especially with the lack of explanation. Then this was supposed to be Sora's second chance for the guardians of light through Kairi but they do the same things over...nothing they say or do changes. If it wasn't for Namine, they would have probably died again. Just seemed like poor writing to me. I was hoping I missed something the game intended to communicate about the situation.

Xion is another thing that I'm concerned about in terms of explanations but I'm just trying to answer all my questions by situation lol
That'll come later.
Yeah I mean I get that, I was super hyped too and it was probably my lowest point for the game as well. Second might be what you mentioned as well...but its sad I just didn't care about it as much as I could lol. I feel like maybe this was all an excuse to screw over Sora in the ending? I hadn't gotten to the end yet when I answered this earlier lol, but I finished it all now.
 

Xalmor

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

Yeah I mean I get that, I was super hyped too and it was probably my lowest point for the game as well. Second might be what you mentioned as well...but its sad I just didn't care about it as much as I could lol. I feel like maybe this was all an excuse to screw over Sora in the ending? I hadn't gotten to the end yet when I answered this earlier lol, but I finished it all now.
Everything in the game to me was top quality except for the scenes right after Sora reclaims everyone's hearts. And even then it just comes down to the 20 second part of that scene with Ventus and Aqua. It just doesn't make any sense why they would do the EXACT same thing if they remembered. It just feels so disconnected, so off. As for Xion's heart physically not transferring from Sora's body to her's, I just thought it was because her body absorbed her heart like she was unconsciously doing to Roxas' whole being in Days. That makes the most sense to me, and it's in line with previous games.

As far as Kingdom Hearts being badly written like some others have said, I have to completely disagree. There are examples of bad writing in the series, as with any story, but besides what I was just talking about and a few parts at the very end and very beginning of DDD, I've adore Nomura's writing. Even if it's not all planned out from the beginning. That would be asking a lot for him to write all of these games out 18+ years ago haha.
 
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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

Namine doesn't show up until credits roll, so why does everyone here keep referencing her? Am I missing something, or are you folks talking about Sterlitzia? even then Sterletzia didn't do anything either.
 

Xalmor

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

Namine doesn't show up until credits roll, so why does everyone here keep referencing her? Am I missing something, or are you folks talking about Sterlitzia? even then Sterletzia didn't do anything either.
Naminé was one of the Stars / Hearts in The Final World with a cutscene. Was right next to Sora when he becomes playable. Did you not interact with everything?
 
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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

I just looked it up and OHHH. At least now I understand why that hunk of armor showed up.
 

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

On point 3 I honestly thought my game was glitching when you come back from that scene. It was late at night for me so I thought I was tripping.
I skipped that scene on my first play-through. I was pissed when I realized what I had done.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

I skipped that scene on my first play-through. I was pissed when I realized what I had done.
At least you didn't have to suffer the same scene twice. #DontThinkTwice
 

Beamer

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

I'm glad someone's actually talking about this now. So here's what I think everyone's managed to piece together so far.

Let's start with our sequence of events:
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Now as for theories:
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Some general deductions:
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Just my thoughts, hopefully it'll spark some ideas in you better theorists out there.
 

Divine Past

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

I felt a lot of the final world feature would have made more sense if Kairi was the one doing it and not Sora. Could have easily have written it up as PoH power.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Re: Really confused about the first battle of the Keyblade Graveyard?

I felt a lot of the final world feature would have made more sense if Kairi was the one doing it and not Sora. Could have easily have written it up as PoH power.
A lot of aspects of the KINGDOM HEARTS story could have easily been written in a much more simpler matter, but after DDD, everything went skyhigh.
 

EternalDream

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I'm honestly not even sure if it's intentionally as confusing as it is in game. If you just ignore 2 "issues" all of it works out just fine (so well in fact, that those two things singlehandedly destroy an otherwise perfectly acceptable "retry").

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AdrianXXII

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I'm confused by the time loop as well.

My best attempt at explaining why they all repeat the events the same way has something to do with the rules of time travel.
Wasn't there something about you can't change the events that already happened. So maybe they were stuck on the path until something happened that caused the path to deviate or they were near their moments of death?
 
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